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What percentage of homeschoolers do you see not educating to a minimum standard?


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Poll: What percentage of homeschoolers do you see not educating to a minimum standard? (177 member(s) have cast votes)

What percentage of homeschoolers in your area are not educating to a minimum standard?

  1. 1% (58 votes [32.77%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 32.77%

  2. 5% (30 votes [16.95%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 16.95%

  3. 10% (17 votes [9.60%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 9.60%

  4. 20% (21 votes [11.86%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 11.86%

  5. 40% (6 votes [3.39%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 3.39%

  6. more than 40% (6 votes [3.39%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 3.39%

  7. other (39 votes [22.03%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 22.03%

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#1 ElizabethB

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 03:28 PM

What do you think?  Is it regional?  

 

I have personally seen perhaps around 1% not educating well, mainly daughters, and even those were doing better than the public schools in their area for reading, although most not for math.  We have lived in a lot of different states and I have interacted with a lot of different homeschoolers.  My kids like having homeschool friends, so in the past, we have always joined a few local co-ops and organizations to get to know people.  (Now that my husband is retired and we are staying in one place longer than a year or two, they have neighborhood and activity friends and we don't currently have a local homeschool group other than my comments on the local Facebook group and an occasional activity.)

 

I also give out reading grade level tests to all parents I know and have found various levels of illiteracy among the neighborhood kids, ranging from 20% to 40% depending on how well the school teaches and the percent of parents able to afford tutoring.  They are functionally illiterate because of sight words, 2 to 12 grade levels behind but appearing to be able to read on the surface because they have a stock of sight words that they know.  I have given out thousands of grade level tests.  In one neighborhood where we lived every single family but one did the test or had me give it.  (I offer to give it for them if they want me to do it instead, telling them that I'm practiced and it will just take me a minute, some of the parents are functionally illiterate and this gives them an easy way to not admit that.  I also give recommend various remedial materials but help parents who can't figure out how to teach on their own.)

 

I feel bad for anyone who is behind for whatever reason and help remediate everyone I can, I was just wondering what people thought the percentages were.


Edited by ElizabethB, 22 October 2017 - 03:37 PM.

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#2 LMD

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 03:46 PM

I have met 2 homeschooling families that... raised my eyebrows. I have met hundreds of homeschooling families in the last decade. So 1-2%?

The two families, both had come out of being under-served in the school system. One was dealing with deep trauma, was already on social services radar, and quite frankly, I think mother was right to focus on healing for the kids. I gave them some resources and encouragement and a listening ear. Those kids aren't getting an optimal education right now, but they know that their mother will fight like a wild animal for love of them - that's better than what many get.
The second family... were told some hard truths, given some accountability, and seem to have lifted their game a bit. There were extra health/LD factors there that the schools had been unable to work with.

There has been other times when my initial impression wasn't positive, but time has allowed me to see a fuller picture and gain respect for their individual approach.
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#3 Tanaqui

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 03:48 PM

Hard to say. It seems plausible to me that those who are really not educating their kids are probably not showing off their parenting either.


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#4 OrganicJen

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 03:50 PM

I think what's hard about this is that I don't know of any public schools that educate to what I believe is the minimum standard anymore.
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#5 ElizabethB

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 03:51 PM

I'm going to add some data.  Arkansas used to have what I thought was the pretty good law balancing freedom and accountability: you must test, the state paid for it, but there were no penalties and no minimum score.  They have dropped the testing requirement because the homeschoolers consistently did well, but I know a few families who it was a wake up call for, they upped their game after low scores.  This report is the average scores of homeschoolers, and since the requirements were so minimal, I didn't know anyone who didn't sign up and take the test.  

 

This report includes scores for 2008 - 2012

 

http://www.arkansase...nual_Report.pdf

 

Here are even more years of testing results and the number of homeschoolers by county:

 

http://www.arkansase...-school-reports


Edited by ElizabethB, 22 October 2017 - 03:55 PM.


#6 Carrie12345

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 03:57 PM

My minimums?  Common Core minimums?  WTM minimums?  Other minimums?

Year by year, or K-12 overview?

Skill or content?  Memorization or critical thinking?


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#7 HomeAgain

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 03:57 PM

I chose other, because I haven't seen that with my own eyes here.  There are also not a whole lot of homeschoolers, and it's a high reg state. 

 

At our last home I'd put it closer to 5%, but I jumped ship out of company with those folks as soon as I could.  In one group it was the norm to be substantially behind, not do essential subjects because the child didn't want to (like math), and think handing a high schooler a stack of worksheets that took 10 minutes or less was an appropriate education and would get them to a diploma.  That was a very low reg state, no reporting or testing necessary, just a letter of intent and vague commitments.

 

But I've also lived in no-reg places where nearly everyone I knew was homeschooling for educational purposes.  The few that were not keeping up with bare minimums (like, my neighbor who confided it was just easier to let everyone play than to try to get a lesson in.  Her spouse was very much not on the same page with this), were very, very few and far between.

 

I do think regulations help homeschooling, or at least makes people think about what they're undertaking.


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#8 regentrude

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 04:01 PM

I cannot vote, for two reasons:

1. I do not have a large enough representative sample of families where I have enough insight to judge the quality of the education.

 

2. In the families I do know, I am observing a startling discrepancy between language arts and math. All the homeschooled kids in my IRL circle are literate and read, often above grade level. And without exception, all are seriously behind in mathematics. None of the homeschooled highschoolers in my kids' group who have graduated completed four years of highschool level math. 


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#9 LMD

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 04:10 PM

My kids' violin teacher is also a high school maths teacher (a good one) so I sometimes talk shop with her about maths standards. Dd, grade 6, noticed a year 8 test at her home one day and just started doodling the answers... the correct answers. I'm confident we're not behind.

I do see a lot of people not wanting to teach maths and just using MUS. Which is not to my standard but definitely at least the same standard as most schools, at least to 8th grade.
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#10 Sadie

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 04:13 PM

I haven't seen anyone IRL who doesn't provide a minimum education (this is legally defined in my state). This includes natural learners. 

 

I have seen homeschoolers being educated in math to a 12th grade level. Heck, my own dc! Maths here is only a required subject up till Year 10, and can be taken at 3 different levels, so a homeschooler not taking math in 11th and 12th grade would not raise an eyebrow in terms of minimum. My own dd has not taken math in Yr 11 and 12 at school.

 

It's a different system, not a worse system.

 

Feedback from AP's (the people from the ed dept who come around to assess your program) suggests that first choice (religious or philosophical) homeschoolers were and are generally doing well in terms of providing a minimum and above education. People who are  homeschooling as a last resort (due to bullying or LD's which are unsupported in schools) are sometimes struggling to understand and enact the minimum, but tend to reach at least a minimum over a period of time - either that or they go back into the system. People who are homeschooling gifted kids are doing fine. 

 

 


Edited by Sadie, 22 October 2017 - 04:15 PM.

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#11 Tibbie Dunbar

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 04:13 PM

No idea. I don't care, because the abused and neglected teen Hs'ed girls I've known do not care. They just want to know why their situation was allowed.

The children in schools who fail to learn, have more adults in their lives who try to teach them something. They have more people in their lives, period, but some of those people are also trained professionals who know something about trying to help children learn. The schoolchildren meet more people, and have more of a chance of glimpsing normalcy somewhere, than these homeschooled Cinderellas. They have access to a book at some point, and they have six hours respite from chores.

This may sound hopelessly radical, but I don't have an acceptable percentage for how many girls can be abused and neglected, with no other eyes upon them for their entire childhood. If the laws are permitting it, any percentage is too high.
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#12 regentrude

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 04:15 PM

My kids' violin teacher is also a high school maths teacher (a good one) so I sometimes talk shop with her about maths standards. Dd, grade 6, noticed a year 8 test at her home one day and just started doodling the answers... the correct answers. I'm confident we're not behind.

I do see a lot of people not wanting to teach maths and just using MUS. Which is not to my standard but definitely at least the same standard as most schools, at least to 8th grade.

 

I am not surprised, because the standard math sequence in schools teaches fractions in 5th grade and then keeps students in a three year holding pattern, reviewing arithmetic with integers and fractions over and over and over again, until finally progressing to algebra in 9th grade (8th grade for "advanced" students). There is virtually no new material taught between 6th and 8th grade.

 

(I found this out the hard way when we had planned a sabbatical in Germany in DD's 6th grade year and I translated the curriculum for the math teacher to inquire which topics would be covered before our departure at Christmas, only to hear from the head of the math department that none of this would be covered before Jr high school.)


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#13 Sadie

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 04:18 PM

Re girls not allowed to be educated - I have never met such a family, not even when I moved in the fundy homeschool circles. Never. There is not, in my community, a crisis of girls who are not allowed to be educated. 


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#14 Jean in Newcastle

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 04:21 PM

Zero.

This may be because I surround myself with educated people.

This may be because this is a well educated part of the country in general.

I have heard of one family who were friends of a friend. But from reports, the poor education was a result of a much larger dysfunction in that family. So I know from at least that report that there are some homeschoolers in the area who wouldn’t meet minimum standards but I don’t know any personally.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Edited by Jean in Newcastle, 22 October 2017 - 04:22 PM.

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#15 cbreeding

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 04:27 PM

In the homeschool families I am around, I would say 1% possibly even less.  I'm not really sure that those that are not actively educating their children really utilize homeschooling resources (enrichment classes, co-op, etc.) 

 

I do know several, several families that have pulled their kids from school because their child/children were behind often do to learning disabilities and the families were not getting adequate support or resources from the school.  The children were already behind and then there is the learning curved for the homeschooling parent.  However, all these families are actively educating and are looking for support where they feel they are falling short.

 

Only one family I know is very blase about education, but their children are very early elementary so that may or may not change.  There is another family that struggles to homeschool.  Honestly the family has so many things on their plate and homeschooling is suffering.  This family homeschools for religious reasons and would not even consider other schooling options.  I'm not sure that their life will get any easier and I fear their children continuing to fall more and more behind.


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#16 Evanthe

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 04:27 PM

Re girls not allowed to be educated - I have never met such a family, not even when I moved in the fundy homeschool circles. 

 

Yeah, me neither.  And we are around a lot of homeschoolers.  And we're in Texas.

 

Over the years, I've really only met maybe 2 families that probably weren't doing a very good job homeschooling.  The moms were overwhelmed and don't have control of the household...which means education wasn't taking a forefront in their day.


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#17 LMD

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 04:29 PM

Re girls not allowed to be educated - I have never met such a family, not even when I moved in the fundy homeschool circles. Never. There is not, in my community, a crisis of girls who are not allowed to be educated.


Me either. I know some very fundy, home churching, former ATI following, dresses only, huge family living off grid, mennonite inspired families. Those girls are getting educated. A good education is one way these families 'stick it to the world.'

Honestly it's the airy fairy non-schoolers masquerading as unschoolers I see that worry me more... they generally either get it together and provide an amazing environment/opportunity or put the kids in school.
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#18 Tibbie Dunbar

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 04:31 PM

Re girls not allowed to be educated - I have never met such a family, not even when I moved in the fundy homeschool circles. Never. There is not, in my community, a crisis of girls who are not allowed to be educated.


This is probably because you don't live in the American Bible Belt, near large populations of Gothard/ATI families, who move in groups to low regulation states so that nobody knows their children aren't being Hs'ed legally. Also, if you are not connected to the families through hs'ing organizations or as a relative, there is no way you're knowing anything about their children. If you are an atheist, or some religion other than Protestant Christian, or have an LGBT person in your family, they will never allow their children to know you exist.

Even if you only know them thru church and hs'ing groups, they don't confess to each other that their children have no books, haven't been taken to a library in three years, and are teens with no knowledge of math beyond addition and subtraction. They do not talk about academics. The children are lied to about their education; I've known many children who had been told that they were years ahead of public schoolers.

Why won't hsers in different regions of this country, or in other countries, acknowledge this problem? Why do you always say it's not a big issue because you've never seen it? New Englanders are not going to see it. People in Portland, Oregon are not going to see it. That doesn't mean the girls in these groups in other areas are not suffering. And they are suffering because their parents are taking advantage of zero accountability homeschool laws.
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#19 Sk8ermaiden

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 04:34 PM

Way too many. Between the ones who just don't bother to educate their kids at all, the ones whose children have obvious learning disabilities that the parents are in denial about and therefore not doing anything to help, and the ones who are #raisinghomemakers and all the math they ever do is grocery shopping and cooking, it feels like a lot. There is zero regulation here and while I love homeschooling and the freedom I have, I would not be sad to see some rules put in place. Or testing. Or something. 


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#20 ElizabethB

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 04:35 PM

No idea. I don't care, because the abused and neglected teen Hs'ed girls I've known do not care. They just want to know why their situation was allowed.

The children in schools who fail to learn, have more adults in their lives who try to teach them something. They have more people in their lives, period, but some of those people are also trained professionals who know something about trying to help children learn. The schoolchildren meet more people, and have more of a chance of glimpsing normalcy somewhere, than these homeschooled Cinderellas. They have access to a book at some point, and they have six hours respite from chores.

This may sound hopelessly radical, but I don't have an acceptable percentage for how many girls can be abused and neglected, with no other eyes upon them for their entire childhood. If the laws are permitting it, any percentage is too high.

 

I think one is too many, too.  

 

I also think one in the schools is too many, too.

 

Many of my students are so crippled they have absolutely no self worth.  My students all have very low self-esteem to one degree or another.  For many, it is crippling, it impacts their whole life.  Also, most of them were given remediation that didn't work in the schools, either more of the same with Reading Recovery, the same whole language based methods that failed them in the first place, or once a week OG methods that will take 10 years for them to be at grade level, they are designed for a true dyslexic student, not someone who can be quickly remediated with phonics and nonsense words.  

 

Here are some stories from Children of the Code, they have a whole series of videos talking about the shame from not being able to read well:

 

http://www.childreno...r/c3c/index.htm

 

They have access to books but they can't read them, and many of their parents don't understand that because of the subtle nature of functional illiteracy where they can read very low level things and know the most common 90% of words but have to guess at the rest.


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#21 OneStepAtATime

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 04:36 PM

I don't know anyone locally that I would think was not educating to at least a minimum standard.  But then, there are very few of us around and we don't tend to communicate or share well.  There used to be a homeschooling group we were very active in and I would say ALL participants were working hard to achieve above a minimum standard.  Not all were as successful in their personal goals for their kids as others were but all were striving and striving hard.  Unfortunately, NON Academic issues among the parents destroyed our group.  Many put their kids back in PS for various reasons while others cut all contact with other homeschoolers so I have no idea what their situation is now.  I only have direct contact with a very limited number of IRL homeschoolers at this point.  Those few are still working very, very hard to achieve above a minimum standard for their kids.


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#22 Tibbie Dunbar

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 04:40 PM

I think one is too many, too.

I also think one in the schools is too many, too.

Many of my students are so crippled they have absolutely no self worth. My students all have very low self-esteem to one degree or another. For many, it is crippling, it impacts their whole life. Also, most of them were given remediation that didn't work in the schools, either more of the same with Reading Recovery, the same whole language based methods that failed them in the first place, or once a week OG methods that will take 10 years for them to be at grade level, they are designed for a true dyslexic student, not someone who can be quickly remediated with phonics and nonsense words.

Here are some stories from Children of the Code, they have a whole series of videos talking about the shame from not being able to read well:

http://www.childreno...r/c3c/index.htm

They have access to books but they can't read them, and many of their parents don't understand that because of the subtle nature of functional illiteracy where they can read very low level things and know the most common 90% of words but have to guess at the rest.


One is too many for public schooled kids, too.

But even these very unfortunate students have some things my young acquaintances never had:

A school to attend, meaning both some semblance of a culture of learning AND respite from chores.
Someone who tried, daily, to teach them in the classroom.
Someone who tried to remediate their reading.
Classmates who were not being told the same cult lies.
You.
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#23 ElizabethB

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 04:41 PM

Why won't hsers in different regions of this country, or in other countries, acknowledge this problem? Why do you always say it's not a big issue because you've never seen it? New Englanders are not going to see it. People in Portland, Oregon are not going to see it. That doesn't mean the girls in these groups in other areas are not suffering. And they are suffering because their parents are taking advantage of zero accountability homeschool laws.

 

That's why I asked the question.  I wanted to know what regions people were seeing this in and what people thought the numbers were.

 

As you've said, and I agree, even one is too many, but numbers are good, too.  I like numbers.  I used to work as a statistician.  I actually started out as a math tutor!  But, reading is more foundational, so I'm sticking with that for now. I keep hoping someday they will quit making remedial students faster than I can help them, though, but I'm still here 24 years later...


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#24 Arctic Mama

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 04:42 PM

I have seen one who was slacking off a bit for the elementary years beyond what I’m comfortable with - and she did some school, just very relaxed and I’d say her kids were a year or two behind. She realized she wasn’t hitting her own benchmarks and tightened it up recently and is doing better.

That’s out of maybe fifty homeschooling families I know pretty well from church, co op, swimming, etc. Now it’s fair to assume most people in these activities aren’t the ones who would be neglectful, but I haven’t even come across those stories in passing. Teens self studying and essentially learning nothing and with no supervision from an adult is something I heard in passing growing up, but these kids were flunking out of the district before they were pulled and taken out, which is hardly intentional homeschooling.

It’s extremely uncommon in all the areas I have lived, and I’d say they’re pretty diverse. California, Alaska, and Ohio.

Edited by Arctic Mama, 22 October 2017 - 04:42 PM.

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#25 mellifera33

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 04:42 PM

It's hard to say. Is the minimum standard based on work put in, or on results? My family, and most of the homeschoolers in our chosen hs community, are dealing with multiple diagnoses and LDs, and the results don't necessarily reflect the amount of educating that is happening. 

 

OTOH, there are local hs'sers who follow a particular philosophy of not forcing a kids to do anything they don't want to do. If they don't want to read, they don't have to learn--they'll pick it up eventually, and it will magically click. In their eyes, I'm some sort of obnoxious tiger mother for making my dyslexic kiddo decode lists of words if he doesn't feel like it. 

 

Overall, though, I think that most local hs'ers are doing a great job. The main hs group in our county is full of rigorous hs families who educate their kids broadly while following their interests. 

 

I think I'm in the same state as the OP. :)


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#26 Sadie

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 04:50 PM

This is probably because you don't live in the American Bible Belt, near large populations of Gothard/ATI families, who move in groups to low regulation states so that nobody knows their children aren't being Hs'ed legally. Also, if you are not connected to the families through hs'ing organizations or as a relative, there is no way you're knowing anything about their children. If you are an atheist, or some religion other than Protestant Christian, or have an LGBT person in your family, they will never allow their children to know you exist.

Even if you only know them thru church and hs'ing groups, they don't confess to each other that their children have no books, haven't been taken to a library in three years, and are teens with no knowledge of math beyond addition and subtraction. They do not talk about academics. The children are lied to about their education; I've known many children who had been told that they were years ahead of public schoolers.

Why won't hsers in different regions of this country, or in other countries, acknowledge this problem? Why do you always say it's not a big issue because you've never seen it? New Englanders are not going to see it. People in Portland, Oregon are not going to see it. That doesn't mean the girls in these groups in other areas are not suffering. And they are suffering because their parents are taking advantage of zero accountability homeschool laws.

 

Well, it's not my issue because I'm not in your country. That sounds snarky but it isn't, just true. It's not an crisis here. If it's a crisis elsewhere, I believe you, and it's terrible, but I don't and can't have solutions. What would work here isn't going to work there.

 

Even if there was a crisis here...I truly consider this to be an issue of a particular religious culture, and not of home educating. I think it is best dealt with by co-religionists.

 

I have a perspective on regulation informed by being in a moderate regulation place, with hoops many people in the US would find unacceptable. Is that why we have no crisis in girls being uneducated ? I don't think so - I think we just don't have the same religious culture in the same numbers. 


Edited by Sadie, 22 October 2017 - 04:52 PM.

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#27 Arctic Mama

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 04:51 PM

I cannot vote, for two reasons:
1. I do not have a large enough representative sample of families where I have enough insight to judge the quality of the education.

2. In the families I do know, I am observing a startling discrepancy between language arts and math. All the homeschooled kids in my IRL circle are literate and read, often above grade level. And without exception, all are seriously behind in mathematics. None of the homeschooled highschoolers in my kids' group who have graduated completed four years of highschool level math.


My kids scored higher on math and science than reading, I was so surprised at this on last year’s exam! Apparently we are better with formulas and problem solving than detailed reading comprehension :o (my kids tend to speed read and not search out information very carefully).

That was outside the norm for a score distribution in our area though.
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#28 regentrude

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 04:53 PM

My kids scored higher on math and science than reading, I was so surprised at this on last year’s exam

That was outside the norm for a score distribution in our area though.

 

I am in a completely unregulated state. Homeschoolers never have to take any test, submit a portfolio, or undergo any type of evaluation. 



#29 CPSTAnne

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 04:57 PM

I don't know enough about what anyone else does to be able to make a judgement call. I haven't met anyone in a serious neglect or abuse situation (that I'm aware of) so it's likely that most are doing better than they would in PS. I really feel like the PS did a really poor job of it when DD went last year, so I guess that sets the bar pretty low academically for our area. 


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#30 Arctic Mama

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 04:57 PM

I am not surprised, because the standard math sequence in schools teaches fractions in 5th grade and then keeps students in a three year holding pattern, reviewing arithmetic with integers and fractions over and over and over again, until finally progressing to algebra in 9th grade (8th grade for "advanced" students). There is virtually no new material taught between 6th and 8th grade.

(I found this out the hard way when we had planned a sabbatical in Germany in DD's 6th grade year and I translated the curriculum for the math teacher to inquire which topics would be covered before our departure at Christmas, only to hear from the head of the math department that none of this would be covered before Jr high school.)

REALLY?! That’s crazy. We just plug along with Saxon and some logic stuff like Beast academy and the ten year old is beginning some algebraic thinking and problem solving, while the nine year old is mostly practicing LCD and decimals and such. They’re maybe slightly ahead of their peers but surely not by that much? Maybe I’ve been living in a hole :o

I cannot imagine not doing algebra in 7th grade or so for a neurotypical kid. Why keep wasting time with review instead of integrating in more problem solving?

Edited by Arctic Mama, 22 October 2017 - 04:59 PM.

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#31 Arctic Mama

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 04:59 PM

I am in a completely unregulated state. Homeschoolers never have to take any test, submit a portfolio, or undergo any type of evaluation.


I was too! Alaska doesn’t even require a declaration of homeschooling. But the district we were working with for funding did request the students test each year and released the score distributions for the district and their program. A fair number of people opted out but it was still a decent data set.

I’ve seen that language arts bias a bit but I wasn’t aware it was that bad.
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#32 Sadie

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 05:01 PM

REALLY?! That’s crazy. We just plug along with Saxon and some logic stuff like Beast academy and the ten year old is beginning some algebraic thinking and problem solving, while the nine year old is mostly practicing LCD and decimals and such. They’re maybe slightly ahead of their peers but surely not by that much? Maybe I’ve been living in a hole :o

I cannot imagine not doing algebra in 7th grade or so for a neurotypical kid. Why keep wasting time with review instead of integrating in more problem solving?

 

 lol, my boy had major puberty related brain fog in 7th. Some days it was like he didn't have a brain! Review for a while was OK for us. The fog lifted by 8th grade (mostly).


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#33 Lecka

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 05:01 PM

I didn't vote.

For non-relatives -- everyone I have ever met has been seeming to do a great job with their kids.

Then there are my relatives. My ILs moved once, didn't want to enroll my little BIL in school for various reasons, and they didn't do anything for about 2 years. For the first year my MIL was picking out a curriculum. For the second year she made self-deprecating comments about how she hadn't gotten around to opening the box. (Edit -- he was in high school, it would be different to me if he were a little kid.)

Another IL had been attending private school and it closed her sophomore year. A big group (it was a small Christian school) of kids were going to enroll in online high school together. It didn't work out and she didn't graduate school. She was supposed to do online school while her mom was at work and I don't think it was a good program, but at the time it seemed like a good program (this was in Colorado).

These aren't people who do any activities with homeschoolers so you would just have to know them somehow.

I have never homeschooled but everyone I have met through Bible Study, the library, the gym, the park, and childrens' activities has seemed to do very well. One of my old friends is homeschooling now and seems to do very well. Kids at my sister's church seem to do exceptionally well, too.

Edit: also kids I have known who switched into or out of public school has seemed to do well. Really -- every way my life has ever intersected with homeschoolers they have seemed to do a great job and have a good family situation, except for my ILs, and then it is two for two for things being pretty abysmal.

Edited by Lecka, 22 October 2017 - 05:08 PM.

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#34 Arctic Mama

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 05:02 PM

lol, my boy had major puberty related brain fog in 7th. Some days it was like he didn't have a brain! Review for a while was OK for us. The fog lifted by 8th grade (mostly).


Many things are excusable with puberty at play :p
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#35 Mbelle

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 05:06 PM

I have not met anyone not meeting at least public school standards.  Even for fundamentalist ( i do live in the deep south bible belt).  

The only difference I have seen with very conservative fundies is that their daughters may not be as highly encouraged to go to college as their sons, but they are as educated as the sons through high school.  However, that would be the same if they went to school.  

Most people I meet in my area are going well beyond what is expected or required.

I live in a low moderate regulation state.  It's enough to keep people on track without meddling in your choices of curriculum or style of homeschooling.


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#36 Meriwether

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 05:11 PM

At least one family I know in real life, maybe two. But I'm not sure. One family I was sure wasn't doing a good job, but their grown kids are fine and did fine on the ACT, too, a good bit higher than average.

I think the vast majority are fine or better than fine. I am okay with some kind of oversight, though, because some kids are falling between the cracks.
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#37 dmmetler

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 05:18 PM

Like Regentrude, I've seen mostly kids ahead on reading and knowledgeable about history, cultures, and humanities, but extremely weak in math and science. Which is really sad when it's a kid who likes math and science.
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#38 Butter

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 05:24 PM

In my area, zero.  Every homeschooling family I know or have encountered here are educating very mindfully.  In my life, both as a homeschooled kid and a homeschooling mom, I have known exactly one family who weren't educating to a minimum standard.  They were proudly "organic radical homeschoolers" and eschewed anything remotely school-like.  The result was obvious and sad.


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#39 Lucy the Valiant

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 05:26 PM

In our area, I don't know of anyone who isn't at least up to public school standards. I do see it and hear it on the national news occasionally (and flinch), but IRL? None that I know.

 

Of course, even in my highly-ranked-for-education state, our local town school publishes a 15% math proficiency rate, so there's that.

 

 


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#40 G5052

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 05:26 PM

The vast majority in our area are doing fine. I agree that math is more of a concern than reading, but most I know take steps to address that.

 

I've had a handful at the community college who were clearly behind academically to the point that success in college was iffy, but I get students like that from public school too.

 

I am aware of two homeschooled drop-outs who never finished high school. That is even more of a concern. Both families were "unregistered" meaning that they never turned in paperwork at any time during homeschooling. I'm not sure what is going to happen to them down the road with no diploma.


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#41 marbel

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 05:43 PM

I'm curious how people know so much about the performance of other homeschoolers?  When I was homeschooling, I had no idea how others were doing, unless someone specifically brought up a concern. Well, I always knew who was doing really well, because the parents of high achievers always made sure everyone knew about that, LOL.

 

BTW both my kids were either behind in math or not as advanced as they/I would have liked upon entering community college. One had to take development algebra (basically high school algebra and without college credit).  She was the only homeschooler in her class and was not the most behind of her fellow students, all of whom were straight out of high school. (No adults coming back to school after a break and needing refresher.)  I'm not saying it was OK that I didn't adequately prepare her for college math, just saying that it wasn't necessarily the fact that she was homeschooled that put her in that position.


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#42 regentrude

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 05:45 PM

I'm curious how people know so much about the performance of other homeschoolers?  When I was homeschooling, I had no idea how others were doing, unless someone specifically brought up a concern. Well, I always knew who was doing really well, because the parents of high achievers always made sure everyone knew about that, LOL.

 

Sometimes, moms share what they are doing. And the teens talk to one another. My DS had a pretty good idea what his homeschooled friends did.

And then, you have the graduated 18 y/os who come to ask college advice and are shocked to realize that their "college prep" curriculum fell far short of what is required for entrance to a public college. Or who tell you that they never went beyond prealgebra and have no idea how to go about continuing their education.


Edited by regentrude, 22 October 2017 - 05:48 PM.

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#43 Sadie

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 05:52 PM

I'm curious how people know so much about the performance of other homeschoolers?  When I was homeschooling, I had no idea how others were doing, unless someone specifically brought up a concern. Well, I always knew who was doing really well, because the parents of high achievers always made sure everyone knew about that, LOL.

 

BTW both my kids were either behind in math or not as advanced as they/I would have liked upon entering community college. One had to take development algebra (basically high school algebra and without college credit).  She was the only homeschooler in her class and was not the most behind of her fellow students, all of whom were straight out of high school. (No adults coming back to school after a break and needing refresher.)  I'm not saying it was OK that I didn't adequately prepare her for college math, just saying that it wasn't necessarily the fact that she was homeschooled that put her in that position.

 

 If people I know are registered, I know how they went at registration. If they get max registration period, they are exceeding the minimum. If they get less, they are either just meeting minimum and need more 'support' (ha! there is no support) or they are not meeting the minimum at all (and have just a few months to do so.)

 

For people who are not registered, you get to hear what the kids are doing.

 

The AP's natter at me a lot about homeschooling, so I also get to hear - every two years - their take on the state of homeschooling. They believe most people are doing well.


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#44 teachermom2834

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 05:55 PM

I really don't see any neglected. The public school bar in my town is very low and I don't know anyone I would say is far worse off than the schools produce.

Now, I see plenty that I believe are bright and spend very little time in school and I can get judgy thinking about how much more the students are capable of. Bare minimum, yes. But not neglect.

I don't see any that seem completely uninterested in their children's learning or whose students could not do fine entering cc after graduation.

When I was a young homeschooler I was often judgemental of the older moms and felt like their middle and high school students were not doing enough. I had older homeschoolers I pegged as slackers. I proceeded to see all those kids graduate and go on to college and do well or get settled into decent jobs. So I learned that homeschooling can take many forms and still be successful and I learned I really couldn't judge from small talk what was happening in anyone else's home.

I just haven't met anyone who claimed homeschooling yet was not doing anything at all. My friend who is in social work has those stories though 😟
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#45 whitehawk

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 05:58 PM

I pretty much have no idea how other people's kids are doing academically, regardless of their schooling choice, except I know that the neighbors' 6yo is reading pretty decently because she reads things she sees in my house. Couldn't vote.


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#46 J-rap

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 06:07 PM

I had to put "other" because I've never met a homeschooler who wasn't learning at least the minimum required.  We currently live in a small town in the upper Midwest, and over the years I've probably met every homeschooling family in our area (unless they are purposely living very privately and never leave their farm, which is certainly possible!).  That's maybe 50 or so families over the years.  

 

Even the families I met who seemed to be mostly un-schooling and not too serious about learning got all their kids to college or some other career path where they did very well and now have very good full-time jobs.  

 

 


Edited by J-rap, 22 October 2017 - 06:08 PM.

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#47 SparklyUnicorn

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 06:09 PM

No clue since I've never observed nor kept track of what they are doing or not doing.


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#48 Arcadia

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 06:21 PM

My kids are not meeting state standards for art, music, PE and social studies whether it is pre-common core (1997 standards) or common core standards.

If you are restricting to language arts and maths, the only homeschoolers I know in real life aren’t behind. The ones my secular neighbors know in real life are all homeschooling because the kids are accelerated. So a very skew in real life sample.

A friend knows families homeschooling for religious reasons who use a private Christian school’s umbrella program for homeschoolers and the homeschoolers are held to the same standards as the brick and mortar students in that school and can do PE, band, choir, community service and sports with that school’s students.
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#49 Sadie

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 06:28 PM

My kids are not meeting state standards for art, music, PE and social studies whether it is pre-common core (1997 standards) or common core standards.

If you are restricting to language arts and maths, the only homeschoolers I know in real life aren’t behind. The ones my secular neighbors know in real life are all homeschooling because the kids are accelerated. So a very skew in real life sample.

A friend knows families homeschooling for religious reasons who use a private Christian school’s umbrella program for homeschoolers and the homeschoolers are held to the same standards as the brick and mortar students in that school and can do PE, band, choir, community service and sports with that school’s students.

 

And that's also a point. Some standards I ditch because they are developmentally inappropriate. For example, my kids were not required to write recounts and narratives in K-3, and I teach the paragraph 'late'. Otoh, I teach the essay early, when schools tend not to really teach it at all, simply require it from 9th grade on.


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#50 creekland

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 06:33 PM

I chose other because I've no idea...

 

I hope with our state regulations (PA) that it's not very high.

 

I have seen some get enrolled in our high school who have been super educated at home and others who are definitely not up to where they should be for their ability.  I suspect that runs the gamut - a bell curve like many others.  But who knows about those I never see?  My guess would still be a bell curve, but it's just a guess.


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