Question about language comprehension vs auditory processing

[Lecka]

My 8-year-old son with autism.....

 

He has just had his 3rd week of a 1-hour gymnastics class, 1:12 ratio. He has been following all directions instantly, not watching other kids to copy. At the end of class the teacher turns on music during their game, he still follows directions (it is stuff like: run forward, run backwards, find a buddy). It is the only class held in the room at the time, and as far as a class like this it is pretty quiet and distraction-free (no other classes, no windows, the lighting is simple, etc).

 

Anyway -- I am watching him and just thinking ------ his auditory processing seems pretty good!

 

I am aware of some environmental factors for him (some visual things are very distracting for him, larger numbers of people are distracting, etc).

 

But overall I think I am seeing that language comprehension is more of an issue for him, when we have things that could be either/or.

 

I also feel like I am seeing that some things that look this way may be more due to sensory stuff with too much visual stuff around for him to look at, so he just can't also listen. But I don't think that is considered auditory processing?

 

I'm curious what others think?

 

This is a lot of progress for him, and we have said before when he couldn't do this kind of thing, it was auditory processing. But I think maybe it was more of an autism-y attending-to-people kind of thing, where he didn't automatically attend to people or focus on people when they were talking. Or if there is progress like this when it is auditory processing, and it is still auditory processing....

 

I'm not sure if it matters practically, but I want to kind-of know what things are contributing to his success in the gymnastics -- what is his own improvement vs what is things that work for him in this particular class. He can still seem dazed at times in situations that would seem similar! But he is doing awesome in this class.

[PeterPan]

Maybe there's a difference in how ABA people will use auditory processing (maybe as an umbrella term) and when people use it to mean APD? Like with APD, they're being pretty tight, referring to stuff that would show up on the SCAN3, like differences in processing speed, dichotic listening (discriminating targets from background), etc. It sounds like the ABA people are using auditory processing in more of an umbrella way. So if they define it in that way in their context, it might also be they have a spread in the skill. Like in the umbrella is processing instructions without needing to reference, processing with background noise, etc. etc. There might be a lot of things under that umbrella. 

 

To me, what you're saying shows that he understands the language well enough that he CAN process the auditory input without needing a peer reference, which is of course AMAZING! It seems like that would kind of ping pong or go back and forth. When he's not understanding the language, it would be harder to do any of those things and engage and find the people interesting. So it's probably both. 

 

It sounds like the class is a really, really good fit for him right now. I would think the other things you're mentioning (music, other classes going on, etc.) would be more complex levels to process in. But yeah, it's both. He's understanding the language well enough that he *can* process and function so well in that environment. And then, if this isn't a school setting, it's really interesting to see if that could inform them for what would work better at school for him too. 

[Lecka]

It has been speech therapists who have said auditory processing. In ABA they would say "non-responding." Previously a lot of non-responding.

 

I don't know what the speech therapists will mean, exactly, because I don't know their terminology. Nobody is meaning the APD terminology, despite using the same words (sigh). There is no thought of the APD stuff.

 

So I guess I am doubtful of him having the APD type of stuff, which is something.

 

He's actually in mainstream a fair amount right now, and I think his behavior is there. But he is bringing home worksheets from mainstream about lava and volcanoes and it is hard to know what he picks up, as honestly it seems hard to me for him. But he is getting exposure, and who knows, maybe I underestimate him.

[Crimson Wife]

When I was working with an auditory-verbal therapist (specialist SLP with training in working with deaf & hard-of-hearing children) to do auditory rehab after my daughter got her cochlear implant, the AVT made a distinction between following directions, auditory comprehension (answering wh- questions after listening to a story), and language tasks. A language task was focused on teaching her things like pronouns, prepositions, conjunctions, etc.

 

Sometimes the AVT would have me combine a language task with a following directions task. For example, "pick up the toys and put them in the box UNLESS they're blue". That's a two-step direction but the "unless" part is a language task.

 

Hope that makes sense.

[Lecka]

The class is nice -- the teacher is nice, the other kids are nice, it has been a really good experience for him. This is the one where I was going to put him in a special adapted class, and then I couldn't register in time (bureaucracy) and then they ended up not having the adaptive class, but said this would be a good class for him.

 

There are some other special needs kids in the class, but much more minor, and it is a nice atmosphere. There is even another girl who has autism but she is in everything mainstream, not bussed for the program my son is in.

[Lecka]

That is helpful, Crimson. It actually makes me think he is just tuning out sometimes or overwhelmed with visual input -- because he can do that when he has a nice quiet place and he is comfortable. But it isn't that it has to be quiet because he is doing well in this gymnastics class.

 

He is better with visual but he used to actually get dizzy when he saw a lot of movement and we had a nightmare once when I tried to take my kids ice skating and he was almost sick watching the people go around in circles.

 

But honestly he has made a lot of progress with that too, I need to watch him on it. And we went to laser tag a couple of months ago and he did okay, which had to be a pretty visually overwhelming environment.

 

He is in the process of a developmental leap and I am trying to get a handle on it! But things are going well, I am just not as good at predicting what will work for him and what won't sometimes, but it is like -- when it isn't working well he *can* self-regulate enough that we don't have bad situations (knock on wood) but I don't like to put him in situations like that since i know it is hard on him.

[Lecka]

His auditory comprehension is low but I think it is more of him having a hard time with wh questions than auditory processing.

 

With speech therapy it comes across like auditory comprehension is part of auditory processing?

 

But yeah wh questions are something he works on.

[Lecka]

His auditory comprehension is much lower compared to following directions and the language task example.... I have been told my son has a relative strength with his working memory and that is what is helping him with following directions.

[PeterPan]

My ds doesn't have that (afaik?) with the visual overloading him in a setting. For sound, yes, sometimes, depending, but visual no. So maybe the difference is the *fact* that it's visual or auditory? Like if he's struggling with the processing of the input in a format (visual or auditory), irrespective of the content...

 

That's a really helpful thing to have good working memory, yes! It would let him compensate and it would help him piece together things.

 

The class you're describing still sounds pretty low key, with not a lot of distractors, etc. When my ds started in gymnastics, we did daytime classes that were with no one else, no music, nothing. Then when he moved into a noisier environment, he'd just stand and look around. The teacher (a high schoolers) didn't notice, so I'd actually have to go down and tell him hey, this is the line, get in it, don't just be dancing a jig and looking around and letting people walk by you!  :lol: So if he has the skill in this environment, then you'll watch to see if he can do the task in the next step, a more complex environment.

 

And age helps too, yes. It's that combo of experiences plus them picking up the clue phone that oh that's what I'm supposed to do.

[J-rap]

My understanding is that language comprehension is understanding the word and sentence meanings.

 

Auditory processing is your brain's ability to take in what it's hearing and make sense of it. 

 

So, very similar in meaning and they probably often overlap.  

 

The (in)ability to focus can be part of the overall problem too.

 

My personal experience is that both can be affected by a variety of things.  Some people do very well as long as the sentences are more simple and direct.  But a 4-step instruction might get lost on them, or speaking in negatives instead of positives ("It's not to your advantage to not count." instead of "It's to your advantage to count.")  Background noise can make a difference, and too many abstract words (words like "either" and "or" and "wh" question words) within a sentence can make the overall message confusing.  Anyway, those are just some examples.

 

Another personal experience thing I've observed is that if it's something they really love and have gotten to know at least somewhat, their brains are more apt to focus hard and they learn to anticipate the meaning in sentences, which works to their advantage of course!  

 

I'm coming from a different perspective though, which is a brain injury, not autism.  But from what I understand, forcing yourself to do something like what your ds is doing -- having to pay attention and make sense of the language -- all works together to create stronger neural paths.

 

It sounds like your ds is doing great in the class!  That's terrific!

 

 

[Lecka]

Thanks for the ideas and things to watch for!

 

On Friday they were doing a circuit of activities, and after one he was looking a little lost (but not too lost, I thought he was okay as he looked like he was taking a little break), and then a girl went around him and got in line ahead of him to do the next activity, and he kind-of shook his head and got in line behind her. That was good for him to notice on his own. But if he gets overwhelmed and it is too overwhelming then he wouldn't be able to do that, and I worry about him shutting down (but he has some body language I am familiar with, I can tell when he still looks relaxed or when he is starting to look stiff and tense).

 

For now we are probably spoiled, with many people automatically adjusting their speech to him. It goes a long way. But I need to be more aware of language when people aren't going to always adjust how they talk.

 

And I think he is development neural paths, I forget about that and it is a good reminder! It really does make sense for him to improve in the areas where he is improving.

Edited October 22, 2017 by Lecka

[PeterPan]

It's good to have a stretch activity like that! Where he is the first day of class isn't going to be where he is 3-4 months from now, kwim? He's going to grow into it. You'll be able to watch and give him pre-talks, a single thing he can watch for while he's in there. Now some of it backfires, like on the lines thing I told ds to stop letting people cut in front of him (because he was off in LaLa Land), and so he started being aggressive and obnoxious about it! LOL 

 

But yeah, to be in a situation that is within reach but has room to grow, that's good.

 

What's nice is it's a real consistent structure, so he can get used to the structure and then grow within that. That's what I've seen with my ds. 

Edited October 22, 2017 by OhElizabeth

[Lecka]

Thanks, it is exciting :)

[Crimson Wife]

Where I see auditory processing issues with my DD separate from language comprehension on the one hand and physical hearing challenges such as listening in background noise on the other is in the lag time between when she hears what is said and where the “light bulb†goes off and she actually understands it. Think of how when you are learning a foreign language and are not yet fluent, how you could repeat back what was said immediately but it takes some time to translate it into your native tongue.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Lecka]

Okay, I don't see that when he doesn't need to give a verbal response. He needs time to formulate a verbal response.

 

I think we may see it more when his comprehension improves more, and he is comprehending the kind of thing where he would

need to think about it. I think right now -- either he gets it, or he didn't catch enough to have something to think about.

[kbutton]

He is in the process of a developmental leap and I am trying to get a handle on it! 

 

The auditory processing centers make a big leap at about this age as well (according to my audiologist friend).

 

My understanding is that language comprehension is understanding the word and sentence meanings.

 

Auditory processing is your brain's ability to take in what it's hearing and make sense of it. 

 

So, very similar in meaning and they probably often overlap.  

 

The (in)ability to focus can be part of the overall problem too.

 

My personal experience is that both can be affected by a variety of things.  Some people do very well as long as the sentences are more simple and direct.  But a 4-step instruction might get lost on them, or speaking in negatives instead of positives ("It's not to your advantage to not count." instead of "It's to your advantage to count.")  Background noise can make a difference, and too many abstract words (words like "either" and "or" and "wh" question words) within a sentence can make the overall message confusing.  Anyway, those are just some examples.

 

Another personal experience thing I've observed is that if it's something they really love and have gotten to know at least somewhat, their brains are more apt to focus hard and they learn to anticipate the meaning in sentences, which works to their advantage of course!  

 

This is our experience, especially the last.

 

It's also possible that this class is structured enough that he can anticipate "this is when I listen," and then make an intentional point to listen carefully. I feel like my son with APD is so accustomed to not really hearing in the same way that others do that it shapes his behavior, but he also has ADHD. I think if we snapped our fingers, and his APD went away, he would still have to learn new listening behaviors (big time!). However, if he knows he's going to be successful at hearing, and the situation is straightforward, he makes a lot more effort at the same time that it's also easier. He also makes a bigger effort when he is motivated.