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s/o negativity towards homeschooling from homeschoolers/others


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#101 AK_Mom4

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 01:56 AM

Do you think the people you know irl homeschool in order to provide a superior academic education or for some other reason?  Do they think they're providing a superior academic education to what they could get at a public school (or a private they could afford) or do they just think some other aspect of homeschooling is more important than the academics?

 

I know this question wasn't directed to me, but I would like to throw some answers out there because I find this whole discussion to be very interesting this evening.

 

We know quite a lot of folks that homeschool.  It is popular in this area.  In many years of homeschooling, I have only met one "homeschooling for religious reasons" family and I don't think they followed any of the mainstream evangelical churches, so they are probably an anomaly.   I have met many folks who homeschool (including us) because they needed an alternative to traditional school.  Kids with chronic health issues, families that travel, kids in elite sports, kids who have a passion they want to focus on like music or dance.   Kids that don't seem to "fit" at the B&M school and kids looking for extra challenge.  Kids with LDs and kids without.   There seem to be as many reasons for homeschooling here as there are homeschoolers.  Back when I first started (2005?  2004? hard to remember now), it was a bit unusual but now I find that it has become a more mainstream choice.

 

I would agree with Catherine that I have not seen a trend to more negativism towards homeschooling on the boards over the years.  There have always been the folks looking for help and I hope that doesn't change.  I see myself in some of the "my kid wont do their work - what can I do?" posts and think back to the rough days we had starting out.   I understand about the OP's feeling that we should be warning off people  because it IS a lot of work.  However, we should probably share the successes and triumphs as well.   Hop over to the High School board in the Spring and enjoy all the Brag Alert and College Acceptance posts!


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#102 eternalsummer

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 02:09 AM

Unpopular answer—most of them are homeschooling because the mega churches encourage it as a way to keep their children “safe”. And most use curriculum that I consider anti-science and wholly inaccurate so I do not think the kids are receiving a superior education. They, obviously, think the education is superior and Godly.

 

 

Right, so for them, education means something different than it does for you, and there is something more important (to them) than academics.  Whether you think the academics are superior or whether you think keeping their children isolated from secular society is silly is quite beside the point for them.

 

 

Consider the following: What if all public schools in the US taught creation science?  What if they were all run as essentially very conservative, maybe even what you might consider bigoted or reactionary, environments, where the dress code was always quite strict, moral codes were what was standard maybe in 1940 in the US (I dunno, just guessing), diversity was not only promoted but discouraged, etc.?  Well, in that case, you'd maybe say, I don't care whether I can teach science or math as well as the local public school (and since you disagreed with some of the premises of their science education, you probably would think anything you could do was better anyway), the more important thing is not to have my children raised to believe the things these schools promote.

 

 

For people who are very conservative, very religious, or have other ideological objections to the essence of the school environment, secular public schools (and to some extent all schools, depending) are to them what the above school would be to you: anathema.  More important to keep your child out of that than to worry about getting through Calculus.


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#103 eternalsummer

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 02:18 AM

AK Mom, I do think a lot of people homeschool for a variety of reasons.

 

I have ideological objections to institutional schools in the West, largely because I have ideological objections to many social norms in the West - but that's not to say that the only reason we homeschool is an objection to institutional schooling.  It's a good fit for other reasons (and a terrible fit for still others, sigh).  Of the few people I have known irl who homeschool and I know why they homeschool, it has just as often been a matter of school fit (for a very bright kid, or an autistic kid, or a dyslexic kid) as religious objection.



#104 Sadie

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 02:56 AM

So it meets her need (or pseudo need) to fit in, and her need to forge her own path. It also meets your need to be the kind of parent who lets her kids forge their own path. I strongly suspect, based on my own experience with my (ahem) strong-willed second child, that life at home would not be terribly harmonious if you were to restrict your daughter to homeschooling when she didn't want to, so the family probably benefits from not having to live in that particular war zone (though maybe that's a wash given the disruption that school presents)?

 

Given all of this, I still can't quite see how you can reconcile your previously stated strong feelings about institutional school with taking full advantage of that option for yourselves. If you yourself can accept that your family life is probably even marginally improved because you have the option to send a child to school, I can't understand thinking that that option is "overoffered" to other parents in need of alternatives and paradigm shifts--especially when it's one option offered among a multitude of other suggestions. 

 

Or do you not think your family life is even marginally improved by your daughter going to school? Do you think all of you would be better served by her being homeschooled, even if it was against her will?

 

ETA: Oh, and how is it overoffered? I do see a lot more people referring to their kids who are in school. Is that part of what's contributing to the sense that the board is less pro-homeschooling these days? Or do you (the general you) mean it's actually suggested a lot in threads where people are asking for advice? 

 

 

 

Again, I agree. This sort of thing has actually been on my mind a lot lately.

 

 I wouldn't say I'm reconciled.

 

I'm not altogether convinced my personal situation is relevant, tbh. 

 

I think the bolded captures some of what I've noticed. 

 

This has been a trend, over the last two years ? more so in the last year, and I'm not invested enough to trawl through a years worth of threads to find examples! My curiosity has been satisfied that I'm not entirely imagining a shift, and there's lots of different perspectives on what that shift means.

 

I do think when homeschoolers on a homeschool board are saying they don't feel it's a place to come for support in the more difficult aspects of their homeschool journey, something has gone a bit wrong.

 


Edited by Sadie, 22 October 2017 - 03:06 AM.

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#105 Sadie

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 03:03 AM

I think this could be it. If people come to a home education support forum and find a large number of once-homeschoolers who have jumped ship, that doesn't feel very supportive of homeschooling regardless of whether it's the best choice for those individual kids at this time.

 

Yeah, this. 


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#106 Melissa in Australia

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 03:40 AM

I have noticed the shift as well.


I started and continue to homeschool because of my children's learning disabilities. I am not in any homeschool group. It is a very lonely journey for some of my children.

Edited by Melissa in Australia, 22 October 2017 - 03:40 AM.


#107 Ausmumof3

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 04:21 AM

I'm also still hoping people can link examples? At least 4-5 posters have said this, and I'm still wondering just what threads are being referred to.


I don't want specific posters to feel targeted or something. And it's more of a general drift.

In some ways I think it's somewhat inevitable that as we are second or third generation of homeschooling and a few people come out with horror stories of neglect or lack of education that a board with a focus on academic achievement and classical education is going to respond with concern. I also don't think that's necessarily a problem but I do think there is a vast ground between complete educational neglect and public school at home. Honestly my public school education was adequate for the 3rs but history wasn't even a subject until year 10 so when I see people saying unless you give your 3rd grader history lessons 3 times per week you need to put them in school that's a bit extreme. That's not a real example of course but I think in the primary years pushing academics (which is my tendency) can be harmful to some kids. So the extreme view of unless your education is going to be far beyond what public school gives you can't homeschool - I just don't agree. People are more than academic achievement. And actually even if my primary school had done a great job academically, I think I still would have been better feeling loved and safe at home than in the social environment there.
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#108 Sneezyone

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 04:43 AM

I guess I'm part of the shift. I started out as an afterschooler and started homeschooling both peeps FT four years ago. Now, I have an extrovert that is thriving in B&M school (and was miserable at home) and an introvert who loves being home and resists any suggestion that B&M school might have something to offer.

 

My goal has always been to provide or ensure each of my children has a happy, healthy (physically and emotionally) childhood and is prepared for selective university admission. They may choose not to pursue these goals as adults but it won't be for lack of opportunity, exposure, or academic preparation. Homeschooling is one possible way for me to make that happen, it's not the only one. It's a tool, for me, not a totem. 

 

Character and religious education, physical fitness, science, math, and English instruction--I'm responsible for ensuring all of it gets done whether they are home FT or not. I don't see either delivery mechanism as better or worse in principle because my role doesn't change. A child can attend an 'institution' and not be 'institutionalized'. When you're on both sides, you see that having one in school doesn't mean home-teaching ends and having one at home doesn't mean outside entities/factors don't intrude. There are good B&M schools and crappy ones. There are amazing homeschoolers and crappy ones. It's not black and white for me.

 

So, I take it year-by-year, child-by-child, situation by situation. I assumed that others were doing the same? What I choose to do works for me. It probably wouldn't work for others and vice versa.

 

It's hard to see recognition that one-size delivery, whether home-based or B&M, doesn't fit all as a bad thing.


Edited by Sneezyone, 22 October 2017 - 04:46 AM.

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#109 RoundAbout

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 05:59 AM

I definitely don't think its in your imagination Sadie. I only have a 10 year-old so I can't say how much of a shift there has been on these board, but I do know I was inspired by people like Holt and the Colfax family and I don't see a lot of families like that IRL or on here. I've homeschooled in 3 different states and what I've seen are a lot of people using mediocre get-er-done curricula, putting their kids in co-ops that seem very school-like or running their kids around to a million activities/classes. Many don't seem to be homeschooling as a first choice and put their kids back in school as soon as they can. 

 

I'm not critical - I'm sure those families are doing what is best for them - but where are the really inspiring homeschoolers who just love learning as a family? Whatever their style? I think that's my main beef - I just don't see a lot of people enjoying this journey. 

 


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#110 mumto2

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 06:15 AM

I am probably a small part of the shift but do not think i have ever stated it on this board.

When I first started home ed it was all glossy and fresh. I could wax poetic about it for hours and harboured a secret ;) belief that pretty much everybody should home educate because it was great! Now I am on the other side of the journey I am so grateful I home educated my kids. We truly all agree that home education was by far the best thing we could have done for my children. Absolutely not regrets from anyone including the kids. Wtm was as huge part of the journey and I am so grateful dh gave my the first edition as a present!

Of course we had ups and downs. I consider myself to be in retirement waiting for grand kids while continuing to support my kids as they pursue higher education while living at home. Food, laundry, and an occasional ride is my current job description! If asked I would happily help with my grandchildren but I am tired of chasing other people's kids at groups. Tired, as in no longer going to have a cup of coffee and chat with new homeschoolers because a couple of people seem to think I am daycare. The groups here tend to be chaos, maybe if I lived somewhere with I nice organized coop I would be teaching a subject I enjoy for one term a year. But I don't......

Some of the group experiences have discouraged me. I no longer give happy pep talks to anyone who asks about home ed. I have seen failures. Generally because the parents did not realize it was a job.

When I get discouraged Dh always reminds me that schools have failure's too. Pretty much all schools. :lol: Home education is important. It is\was the best path for many kids I know and I suspect a far better path for my two than any of the other choices that were available. I have seen it turn lives around. It is wonderful but it isn't for everyone. That is what experience taught me.
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#111 Carrie12345

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 06:28 AM

I definitely don't think its in your imagination Sadie. I only have a 10 year-old so I can't say how much of a shift there has been on these board, but I do know I was inspired by people like Holt and the Colfax family and I don't see a lot of families like that IRL or on here. I've homeschooled in 3 different states and what I've seen are a lot of people using mediocre get-er-done curricula, putting their kids in co-ops that seem very school-like or running their kids around to a million activities/classes. Many don't seem to be homeschooling as a first choice and put their kids back in school as soon as they can. 

 

I'm not critical - I'm sure those families are doing what is best for them - but where are the really inspiring homeschoolers who just love learning as a family? Whatever their style? I think that's my main beef - I just don't see a lot of people enjoying this journey. 

 

Hm. That's actually interesting to me, because my kids are in 2 schoolish co-ops, lots of activities, and our curriculum varies from bare bones to intense-but-non-traditional.  (Except we're still a Saxon math family, lol.)  My four youngest have never been to school and I have no plans to send them.  This is our first choice and I love learning as a family.



#112 soror

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 06:37 AM

I will say I've seen several former hs'ers thrive in ps. These were not from overachieving homes but homes where Mom was having trouble getting school done, for various reasons. Of those, I've personally known only one really struggled and that was due to severe learning issues, his Mom had got him evaluated and diagnosed but didn't have the resources to teach him. It seems that some vocal posters here have an extremely high bar on what constitutes an acceptable hs. I don't want to set my bar as low as failing schools but I don't think I can or must hit the level of overachieving private school to make this endeavor worthwhile. We diligently do our school work but I think there is more to homeschooling than the school and it is not just the schooling that makes it worthwhile. I kind of feel I fall in the middle a lot I don't do enough school for the really rigorous schoolers but do far too much to be relaxed.

 

I think Sadie's point about hs'ing without resources is a good one. There is definitely a vibe that if you are not able to provide all these extras you might as well put them in school. There feels like an undercurrent that you are depriving your child without outsourcing and extra-curriculars. 

 

But I'm also not opposed to some regulation in hs'ing coming from a state that has pretty much no regulations whatsoever. 


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#113 Quill

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 07:01 AM

Haven't read replies: it's not just you; I feel the same vibe. However, I myself am much less positive about homeschooling than I once was.

I actually once did think homeschooling was "for everyone" and that everychild would be better off homeschooled and every family would be happier and closer and sturdier if a parent were homeschooling.

I hope I didn't actually say that very often out loud though.

P.S. I think homeschooling is also less revered in the general (American) public than it once was. Remember the thread about how "old-schoolers" did things vs now? Old schoolers were generallly viewed as doing an outstanding job, but the general public doesn't seem to have such a positive view of hsers now. I have heard of field trip venues that did not wish to allow homeschool groups because they were the least well-disciplined.
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#114 Fifiruth

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 07:03 AM

For whatever reason, SWB has seen fit to allow threads about public schooling and leaving homeschooling in general to be posted here. I have never understood why, since I thought that this was a homeschooling support forum, but someone once said that this is more of an "education" site than a homeschooling one, and I tend to agree.

ETA. Sorry if this sounds critical and annoyed. I didn't mean for it to.

Edited by Fifiruth, 22 October 2017 - 08:11 AM.

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#115 mamaraby

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 07:07 AM

I am not in any homeschool group. It is a very lonely journey for some of my children.


I would say the same for us. Probably for different reasons than Melissa. I gave up on the local support group because I got tired of dealing with the leader and most of the other kids ignored my kids because we’re the wrong sort. Sure, I could travel 50 minutes to another town for another group, but then we’d never get actual schoolwork done. If you find yourself in my shoes, I can see how the public school would be very attractive. More kids, fewer strings, still the same old cliques.

I don’t have any support locally and no one to ask questions of, so here is where I find my support and I’ve found it both super helpful and never really had the “you should put your kids in school” suggestion. But maybe I visit different threads, Sadie?
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#116 MaeFlowers

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 07:08 AM

I have been around since 2003/2004. I think there has been a shift in attitudes although I don't know if I would say it is anti-homeschooling. I do think there is a less of a ride or die mentality about it, though.

Example: I've been personally struggling with homeschooling this year. (Not mentally, just practically.) Had I posted about it maybe two years ago, the primary advice would have been to give them lots of good books, educational videos, etc. I would have been encouraged to continue. Now, the primary advice seems to place them back in b&m schools.

I dont know why the shift has happened. I would assume it has to do with one's underlying reasons for hs in the first place. As someone who's reasons include issues with the ps system, it does make me cringe a tiny bit. I say a tiny bit because I understand that hs isnt for everyone and that some really are better served by ps.
But, my concerns with the ps system don't fade away when the going gets tough. So, I tough it out.
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#117 Heathermomster

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 07:21 AM

I haven’t noticed a shift on the boards, but I’ve only been around coming up on 6 years.

Locally, I am wearied by my fellow homeschoolers, so I limit my exposure whenever and wherever I can. Most of my homeschooling support comes from this board and women that have homeschooled graduates. I love homeschooling and teaching my children, but I don’t believe everyone should be doing it.

Edited by Heathermomster, 22 October 2017 - 07:25 AM.


#118 fralala

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 07:24 AM

I haven't been on this board long enough to know.

 

One thing I feel-- for myself-- is that it takes a bit of a mental toll to be part of a minority group (albeit voluntarily) that does experienced critical and prejudiced attitudes from those in the mainstream. One of my responses is to be more critical of those people in my group whom I feel are making us all look bad, more critical than I am of the critical or prejudiced outsiders.

 

This despite the fact that I myself am careful not to make assumptions about ALL people who choose to send their kids to school, who on the whole tries not to make blanket statements or assumptions about public schools because my kids have never been enrolled in them, who sees it as my responsibility to listen to and trust my friends and their children who are having positive experiences of schooling or whose opinions about it are different from mine.

 

The oldschoolers I know IRL have pretty much become radical unschoolers in their old age, now that they see how everything has turned out. But they're definitely blue state hippies!


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#119 DawnM

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 07:27 AM

Yes, this board had changed in many ways in the time that I have been here.  Schooling, Politics, Religion, etc.....

 

As usual, I am always a moderate.  When the boards were more pro-homeschooling (and all the "reason #437 why I homeschool" and then some PS bashing thread), I used to post about how PS wasn't that bad, that we needed to support those who were there, etc......

 

I have made no bones about the fact that I homeschooled due to a child who needed it, not because of some overwhelming conviction to do it, or distain for B&M school, etc.....

 

Usually people were supportive of me anyway.

 

And now, I still say, "Do whatever your family needs!  HS, PS, Private.....as long as the kids get educated and it is working for you!"

 

There is no WRONG way among those 3 options.


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#120 chiguirre

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 07:36 AM

For whatever reason, SWB has seen fit to allow threads about public schooling and leaving homeschooling in general to be posted here. I have never understood why, since I thought that this was a homeschooling support forum, but someone once said that this is more of an "education" site than a homeschooling one, and I tend to agree.

 

TWTM also covers afterschooling. It's not meant exclusively for homeschoolers. 


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#121 Evanthe

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 07:38 AM

but where are the really inspiring homeschoolers who just love learning as a family? Whatever their style? I think that's my main beef - I just don't see a lot of people enjoying this journey. 

 

We love homeschooling!  And my oldest graduates in a couple of years, so it's not like I just started this yesterday and am still in the honeymoon phase.  But, I've been looking for that, too.  Inspiring stuff to read...Lol.  Some days I need that!

 

And, Sadie, yes, I agree with you (that was a lot of commas).  There has been a change in the last few years.  I've tried looking elsewhere for some homeschooling support, but can't seem to find anything that's active.  


Edited by Evanthe, 22 October 2017 - 07:39 AM.

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#122 Sneezyone

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 07:39 AM

For whatever reason, SWB has seen fit to allow threads about public schooling and leaving homeschooling in general to be posted here. I have never understood why, since I thought that this was a homeschooling support forum, but someone once said that this is more of an "education" site than a homeschooling one, and I tend to agree.


SWB has solicited insight into/information about the ways B&M parents have used TWTM to support their learners too.
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#123 BarbecueMom

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 07:59 AM

I've been around here for about 8-9 years, so not *that* long.

I think there was, once upon a time, a theme of embracing total weirdness as part of homeschooling. Now it seems like a larger representation of normal parents raising normal kids getting into homeschooling, wanting the same type of education the "oddball icons" have proposed for years, but without diving into a counter-culture lifestyle.

I think it's a lot harder to live a very mainstream life where homeschooling is the only thing you do differently, than a life well off the beaten path where homeschooling is just one aspect of it. When I was first learning about homeschooling, most examples I saw or read about were the latter. Most of us are probably trying to fit homeschooling around our relatively normal interests and choices.

I also think there are more posters these days who are opposing an "off the beaten path" lifestyle altogether.

ETA: There are some circumstances where "off the beaten path" is practically abuse or neglect, and we're right to call it out, but I think sometimes it veers too far.

Edited by BarbecueMom, 22 October 2017 - 08:23 AM.

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#124 Ausmumof3

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 08:25 AM

SWB has solicited insight into/information about the ways B&M parents have used TWTM to support their learners too.


I think it's logical for writers of awesome educational curriculum to want to expand it beyond the limited and somewhat overcrowded homeschool market.
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#125 Meriwether

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 08:30 AM

We love homeschooling!  And my oldest graduates in a couple of years, so it's not like I just started this yesterday and am still in the honeymoon phase.  But, I've been looking for that, too.  Inspiring stuff to read...Lol.  Some days I need that!

 

And, Sadie, yes, I agree with you (that was a lot of commas).  There has been a change in the last few years.  I've tried looking elsewhere for some homeschooling support, but can't seem to find anything that's active.  

Ditto.

I have noticed a change. I wouldn't quote a post directly even if it were easy to search this site, because I wouldn't want anyone to feel called out. People are entitled to their opinions. But what I have noticed isn't just advice about putting kids in b & m school, it is also a range of ideas from "PS is wonderful. I should have done this sooner." to "I'm glad I can homeschool, but I don't really trust others to do it right." with lots of shades in between. Those are legitimate feelings and experiences for those who have them, but they do contribute to a more discouraging tone.


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#126 regentrude

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 08:38 AM

I have only been homeschooling and on this forum since 2008. I spent most time on the actual content boards, K-8 or High school forum or College forum, and have not found a disparaging or discouraging tone. I have found the members on this board very supportive of each other when it comes to discussing curriculum choices, actual coursework, helping each other with the college application process, or finding solutions for struggling homeschoolers. I have not encountered a pervasive attitude of "you should send them to school". Most posts are constructive, full of information, and aim to help the other member make homeschooling work as best as possible.

 

So I am wondering whether the trend some of you seem to observe may be more an issue of the Chat board specifically, rather than the entire forum. Maybe this is the place people come to vent. Maybe this is the place the people for whom homeschooling has not worked for whatever reason still hang out; I would assume them to be less likely to be discussing math curriculum on the high school board.

 

 


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#127 soror

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 08:39 AM

We love homeschooling!  And my oldest graduates in a couple of years, so it's not like I just started this yesterday and am still in the honeymoon phase.  But, I've been looking for that, too.  Inspiring stuff to read...Lol.  Some days I need that!

 

And, Sadie, yes, I agree with you (that was a lot of commas).  There has been a change in the last few years.  I've tried looking elsewhere for some homeschooling support, but can't seem to find anything that's active.  

 

 

Ditto.

I have noticed a change. I wouldn't quote a post directly even if it were easy to search this site, because I wouldn't want anyone to feel called out. People are entitled to their opinions. But what I have noticed isn't just advice about putting kids in b & m school, it is also a range of ideas from "PS is wonderful. I should have done this sooner." to "I'm glad I can homeschool, but I don't really trust others to do it right." with lots of shades in between. Those are legitimate feelings and experiences for those who have them, but they do contribute to a more discouraging tone.

Yes, yes, yes, especially to the bolded! A lot of us are still in the thick of it and actually not neglecting our children, it would be great to have some support and camaraderie without feeling the need to justify yourself a place where people understand you still want to do it and find it worthwhile and want to continue but it is nonetheless hard. 


Edited by soror, 22 October 2017 - 08:40 AM.

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#128 unsinkable

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 08:52 AM

I will say I've seen several former hs'ers thrive in ps. These were not from overachieving homes but homes where Mom was having trouble getting school done, for various reasons. Of those, I've personally known only one really struggled and that was due to severe learning issues, his Mom had got him evaluated and diagnosed but didn't have the resources to teach him. It seems that some vocal posters here have an extremely high bar on what constitutes an acceptable hs. I don't want to set my bar as low as failing schools but I don't think I can or must hit the level of overachieving private school to make this endeavor worthwhile. We diligently do our school work but I think there is more to homeschooling than the school and it is not just the schooling that makes it worthwhile. I kind of feel I fall in the middle a lot I don't do enough school for the really rigorous schoolers but do far too much to be relaxed.

I think Sadie's point about hs'ing without resources is a good one. There is definitely a vibe that if you are not able to provide all these extras you might as well put them in school. There feels like an undercurrent that you are depriving your child without outsourcing and extra-curriculars.

But I'm also not opposed to some regulation in hs'ing coming from a state that has pretty much no regulations whatsoever.

Yes, definitely to the bolded. Being told essentially that parents didn't belong on the College Board if their children didn't test well...

I've been on the boards (in all their different formats) since 2001. I have noticed a shift toward a sense of what you bolded. There is also mixed in more of a "time for a B&M school" vs "what do you need to keep you homeschooling" attitude.

I've also seen more support for "do what is best for your family" which I do like to see, which is great for a mom who basically made her decision but is having those 3 am doubts.

Edited by unsinkable, 22 October 2017 - 08:59 AM.

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#129 Amy in NH

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 08:55 AM

I think it's logical for writers of awesome educational curriculum to want to expand it beyond the limited and somewhat overcrowded homeschool market.


There has always been an afterschoolers section in twtm, even before the home ed market glut.
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#130 DawnM

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 09:00 AM

Yes, definitely to the bolded. Being told essentially that parents didn't belong in the College Board if their children didn't test well...

I've been on the boards (in all their different formats) since 2001. I have noticed a shift toward a sense of what you bolded. There is also mixed in more of a "time for a B&M school" vs "what do you need tokeep you homeschooling."

I've also seen more support for "do what is best for your family" which I do like to see, which is great for a mom who basically made her decision but is having those 3 am doubts.

 

I have really hesitated to post much on the college board because people are so judgmental. My kids are NOT STEM.  We are ok with that!  It is like STEM is the end all/be all and if you aren't that, you are pretty much wasting your time and may as well flip burgers and learn the "do you want fries with that" phrase.  

 

SO. NOT. TRUE!

There is value and worth to all sorts of degrees/careers/passions.


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#131 Moxie

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 09:02 AM

For whatever reason, SWB has seen fit to allow threads about public schooling and leaving homeschooling in general to be posted here. I have never understood why, since I thought that this was a homeschooling support forum, but someone once said that this is more of an "education" site than a homeschooling one, and I tend to agree.

ETA. Sorry if this sounds critical and annoyed. I didn't mean for it to.


But this is the chat board. I’m sure the education board is still full of helpful advice.
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#132 Matryoshka

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 09:18 AM

I have really hesitated to post much on the college board because people are so judgmental. My kids are NOT STEM.  We are ok with that!  It is like STEM is the end all/be all and if you aren't that, you are pretty much wasting your time and may as well flip burgers and learn the "do you want fries with that" phrase.  

 

SO. NOT. TRUE!

There is value and worth to all sorts of degrees/careers/passions.

 

Huh.  I spend lots of time on the college board, and I haven't noticed that attitude at.all.

 

I do have one STEM kid.  BUT - her twin sister is doing Linguistics and Philosophy (gasp!), and before she switched she was doing Archaeology.

 

I never once felt more support for the STEM kid over the other.

 

There's a lot of posts worrying about STEM prep I think because if you do have a kid who wants to go into STEM, there's a lot more competition to get into programs, and you have to make sure they take the right math/science sequence, and usually at a high level.

 

For Humanities kids, there's a lot less angst, and the high school years can be more varied.  It doesn't mean Humanities have less value.  (although it's probably true the STEM kids will earn more $$ coming out, money isn't everything).


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#133 bethben

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 09:35 AM

Also I am very pro-homeschooling, whn it works. But I am more willing to look at a homeschooling family or community and think, "wow that really isn't working."


I used to be one who would advocate for homeschooling over public school always. Then I started to get older and began to think maybe it wasn’t for everyone. Then I started knowing homeschool moms whose health-physical and mental —was truly suffering because of homeschooling. Because I have high school children, I am seeing more and more homeschooling moms who are completely burnt out and teens who aren’t getting a good high school education because of it. I’m seeing the teen/mom conflict in the high school years and see how that affects the homeschool ideal. Then, my own mental and physical health was suffering because homeschooling added to the strain of just what I have in my life was too much. So, despite years of conviction, my dd is in public school.

I honestly think homeschooling is great, but I feel like education in general-both homeschooling and public/private education needs an overhaul. I often wonder if public education changed dramatically how that would affect homeschooling. So, while I am still pro-homeschooling, I am willing to entertain other possibilities.


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#134 DawnM

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 09:42 AM

Huh.  I spend lots of time on the college board, and I haven't noticed that attitude at.all.

 

I do have one STEM kid.  BUT - her twin sister is doing Linguistics and Philosophy (gasp!), and before she switched she was doing Archaeology.

 

I never once felt more support for the STEM kid over the other.

 

There's a lot of posts worrying about STEM prep I think because if you do have a kid who wants to go into STEM, there's a lot more competition to get into programs, and you have to make sure they take the right math/science sequence, and usually at a high level.

 

For Humanities kids, there's a lot less angst, and the high school years can be more varied.  It doesn't mean Humanities have less value.  (although it's probably true the STEM kids will earn more $$ coming out, money isn't everything).

 

 

I was told my kid better get a Plan B.  Yeah, that seems pretty unsupportive to me.  HOWEVER, I am willing to say that it wasn't everyone and I may have just been overly sensitive because it is my child who struggles.


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#135 Plum Crazy

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 09:43 AM

I have really hesitated to post much on the college board because people are so judgmental. My kids are NOT STEM.  We are ok with that!  It is like STEM is the end all/be all and if you aren't that, you are pretty much wasting your time and may as well flip burgers and learn the "do you want fries with that" phrase.  

 

SO. NOT. TRUE!

There is value and worth to all sorts of degrees/careers/passions.

I felt like that at first, but I don't anymore. There are a lot of music majors, humanities and those going to liberal art colleges.  


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#136 brehon

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 09:43 AM

I agree, Matryoshka. I spend a lot of time on the HS & College boards. My 2 current high schoolers are not STEM, especially eldest. He’s my classics, history, and philosophy guy. I’ve mentioned before both on the Chat and HS boards that my kids, especially my current high schoolers, are very intelligent, but not academic superstars. There won’t be anything approaching full tuition/full ride scholarships for most of them (unless something rather miraculous occurs). And I still don’t feel like I can’t ask questions or otherwise participate on either the HS or College boards. I’m sorry if some of you feel that way.

Edited by brehon, 22 October 2017 - 09:44 AM.


#137 regentrude

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 09:48 AM

I was told my kid better get a Plan B.  Yeah, that seems pretty unsupportive to me.  HOWEVER, I am willing to say that it wasn't everyone and I may have just been overly sensitive because it is my child who struggles.

 

Actually, I think having a Plan B behooves every student. Developing a realistic expectation about employment prospects is solid advice There is always the chance that something does not work out, the planned major turns out not to be as expected, interests change, career prospects alter for personal reasons. We really emphasized having a plan B when my DS first mentioned wanting to go into a sports career.

Plan Bs can come in various forms and shapes. IMO, recommending that the student think about alternatives as backups does not imply disrespect for the major. My physics major DD is completing an interdisciplinary humanities degree as her built-in plan B :)


Edited by regentrude, 22 October 2017 - 09:52 AM.

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#138 DawnM

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 09:55 AM

Actually, I think having a Plan B behooves every student. Developing a realistic expectation about employment prospects is solid advice There is always the chance that something does not work out, the planned major turns out not to be as expected, interests change, career prospects alter for personal reasons. We really emphasized having a plan B when my DS first mentioned wanting to go into a sports career.

Plan Bs can come in various forms and shapes. IMO, recommending that the student think about alternatives as backups does not imply disrespect for the major. My physics major DD is completing an interdisciplinary humanities degree as her built-in plan B :)

 

That would be great for *most* kids......but I am not going to argue this again with you.


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#139 Crimson Wife

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 09:57 AM

 

I really don't care why anyone homeschools, as long as they're educating their kids and expanding the opportunities they'll have in the world instead of limiting them.

 

The bolded is a judgment call that I'm not comfortable making for someone else's kids. It breaks my heart when parents deliberately choose to limit their children (especially their daughters) but I'm a supporter of parental rights. It isn't abuse or neglect to refuse to provide a college-prep education to one's daughter. The young woman can leave home at 18 and seek out opportunities to make up for the shortcomings of how her parents chose to homeschool. Khan Academy is free and used textbooks are available very inexpensively.

 

This is an example about what I meant earlier about the shift from libertarian (you do your thing and I'll do mine) to bashing parents who make a different choice.
 


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#140 Carol in Cal.

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 10:00 AM

  Even in STEM, plan B is a good idea.

I still remember those nuclear engineering students who couldn't find jobs when the industry flat out crashed.

They had been the most heavily recruited, highest paid BS graduates on campus until they suddenly couldn't even get interviews.

For those who loved nuclear engineering and had studied it for that reason it was pretty hard.  But for those who had studied it to make good money, despite not really liking it all that much, it was galling and ironic.

 

But I digress.

 


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#141 Crimson Wife

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 10:03 AM

Unpopular answer—most of them are homeschooling because the mega churches encourage it as a way to keep their children “safe”. And most use curriculum that I consider anti-science and wholly inaccurate so I do not think the kids are receiving a superior education. They, obviously, think the education is superior and Godly.

 

This is another example of a judgment call I'm unwilling to make. I don't personally use YEC materials in our HS, but I support the right of parents to decide for themselves what to use.


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#142 regentrude

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 10:07 AM

.....but I am not going to argue this again with you.

 

I am confused about the bolded. I do not recall that you and I ever argued about this topic before (and a search did not find any such conversation either)

But sure, there is no need for us to discuss this.


Edited by regentrude, 22 October 2017 - 10:08 AM.


#143 ChocolateReign

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 10:13 AM

The bolded is a judgment call that I'm not comfortable making for someone else's kids. It breaks my heart when parents deliberately choose to limit their children (especially their daughters) but I'm a supporter of parental rights. It isn't abuse or neglect to refuse to provide a college-prep education to one's daughter. The young woman can leave home at 18 and seek out opportunities to make up for the shortcomings of how her parents chose to homeschool. Khan Academy is free and used textbooks are available very inexpensively.

 

This is an example about what I meant earlier about the shift from libertarian (you do your thing and I'll do mine) to bashing parents who make a different choice.
 

 

It may not fit the legal definition of abuse/neglect, but that doesn't prevent me from believing anyone who treats their children like that is a failure as both a parent and a human being.


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#144 Moxie

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 10:16 AM

This is another example of a judgment call I'm unwilling to make. I don't personally use YEC materials in our HS, but I support the right of parents to decide for themselves what to use.


How far does that go? Do you support parents who teach the world is flat? What about those who teach that the Bible tells us that white people are the master race? I’m happy to use my judgement to look at other homeschools and say “nope, you are doing it wrong”.
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#145 chiguirre

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 10:34 AM

The bolded is a judgment call that I'm not comfortable making for someone else's kids. It breaks my heart when parents deliberately choose to limit their children (especially their daughters) but I'm a supporter of parental rights. It isn't abuse or neglect to refuse to provide a college-prep education to one's daughter. The young woman can leave home at 18 and seek out opportunities to make up for the shortcomings of how her parents chose to homeschool. Khan Academy is free and used textbooks are available very inexpensively.

 

This is an example about what I meant earlier about the shift from libertarian (you do your thing and I'll do mine) to bashing parents who make a different choice.
 

 

A girl who has to move out at 18 to work a minimum wage job and try to pay rent and car insurance will find trying to self educate high school academics a tall order. If her parents won't fill out a FAFSA she probably won't even be able to afford community college on top of living expenses. That boxes in a kid so much that I think it qualifies as neglect. 


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#146 MysteryJen

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 10:36 AM

I, too, have noticed the shift in the boards, but I think it is also a general shift in education. People seem to educate out of fear now. Will they be "behind" in first grade? Is that book in the Common Core? Maybe I should just put them back in school? etc. As I am nearing the end of my homeschooling journey, and my younger two will graduate from the ps high school, I have been thinking quite a bit about homeschooling in general. I still believe in my heart that homeschooling is an excellent way to educate children and institutional schooling has many, many harms that are not being acknowledged in our society. I also believe that it is hard, hard work. Many of my friends who started out homeschooling had very different reasons than I did: they couldn't afford the private school they wanted, religious reasons, or just sort of fell in with a homeschooling crowd and went with it. They have all left homeschooling, for different reasons, but among them was that it got hard. 

When my dd2 went to high school, I was mostly okay with it, because it was her decision, primarily for social reasons. I am not okay with her academic work. And before people get all high and mighty about their awesome high school with AP and IB, etc. I have seem that up close and I believe that my older three homeschoolers had a superior education. They are not STEM kids and have all adjusted to college classes extremely well. 

But the whole person needs to be considered in high school. My younger two will be better served with crowds of friends, clubs, sports than they would be with a very academic education. And honestly, homeschooling high school is hard. I am tired. It is a million times easier to have a kid in high school than to have them at home.

 

My general beef is the loss of the freedom aspect of education. My education decisions are not a judgment on (the general) you. I did not put dd2 into ps high school, because I renounced homeschooling (actually said to my face: so glad you changed your mind about homeschoooling). Do your best for your kids, I will do my best for mine. 

There is no one right way to become an educated person. And no common definition about what it means to be "educated."

 


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#147 Barb_

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 10:44 AM

The bolded is a judgment call that I'm not comfortable making for someone else's kids. It breaks my heart when parents deliberately choose to limit their children (especially their daughters) but I'm a supporter of parental rights. It isn't abuse or neglect to refuse to provide a college-prep education to one's daughter. The young woman can leave home at 18 and seek out opportunities to make up for the shortcomings of how her parents chose to homeschool. Khan Academy is free and used textbooks are available very inexpensively.

This is an example about what I meant earlier about the shift from libertarian (you do your thing and I'll do mine) to bashing parents who make a different choice.


The rights of the parent do not supersede the right of the child to an appropriate education. Children are only on loan--parents don't own them as if they were pets.

A woman who has been raised to believe that she doesn't have the right to an equivalent education or the ability to handle it isn't magically going to become an auto-didact at the age of 18.

The problem with libertarian ideals is that they assume the basic good of human nature. In reality, my freedom to do whatever I wish often creates collateral damage.
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#148 Jean in Newcastle

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 10:44 AM

We love homeschooling!  And my oldest graduates in a couple of years, so it's not like I just started this yesterday and am still in the honeymoon phase.  But, I've been looking for that, too.  Inspiring stuff to read...Lol.  Some days I need that!

 

And, Sadie, yes, I agree with you (that was a lot of commas).  There has been a change in the last few years.  I've tried looking elsewhere for some homeschooling support, but can't seem to find anything that's active.  

 

I'm there with you.  I think that there are a number of people still on this board who have found and still find homeschooling a labor of love. 

 

The negative people have always been negative - about something.  If it wasn't about homeschooling at first, it was about something else. 


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#149 Barb_

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 10:45 AM

Even in STEM, plan B is a good idea.
I still remember those nuclear engineering students who couldn't find jobs when the industry flat out crashed.
They had been the most heavily recruited, highest paid BS graduates on campus until they suddenly couldn't even get interviews.
For those who loved nuclear engineering and had studied it for that reason it was pretty hard. But for those who had studied it to make good money, despite not really liking it all that much, it was galling and ironic.

But I digress.


I fear the same thing in tech, TBH

#150 Barb_

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 10:45 AM

This is another example of a judgment call I'm unwilling to make. I don't personally use YEC materials in our HS, but I support the right of parents to decide for themselves what to use.


Collateral damage.
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