Vindication on the math front!

[Tanaqui]

For years, since she was in elementary, the older kiddo and I have been having a minor quarrel about how to show her work for math (and convincing her it was necessary was step one). No, you can't just scatter your steps all over, and you should label them if there is more than one step. No, you can't skip steps. Yes, you have to check your work, and you have to finish your check all the way to the conclusion. This work in the textbook is easy work for learning, in the real world it's harder and you want to keep track of your thinking. I promise, in high school and college, having good work habits will pay off because your teachers will dock points.

 

Homeschooled for middle school, tossed her back for high school. Yesterday she asked me to help with her math homework and confessed that I was right all along. Her teacher does require that she write down each step in her algebra, that she divided both sides or subtracted both sides or whatever! Her teacher does insist that when she checks her answer, she ends up with 13 = 13 or 0 = 0 at the end! Her teacher does ask them, when doing word problems, to pick variables that make sense and to write a key, and to label each individual step separately! Having neat work actually makes a difference! (And yes, the whole class has been told not to just use the equals sign as a shorthand for "the answer goes here", something I've railed against sufficiently loudly that she never picked up that habit in the first place.)

 

I think I sprained my wrist here I've been patting myself on the back so hard.

[Tanaqui]

Also, she loves her math class. Which is great. I am so so so happy with the high school she's attending, like you wouldn't believe.

[sassenach]

Same. But there’s about 50 things like that that they’re willing to do for their teachers, but didn’t like to do for me. They’re my kids- only willing to do it if it makes sense. Show my work when you’re sitting right here and giving me personalized help? That’s dumb. Show my work to a teacher who has 100 other students and needs to see that I am doing it right? That makes sense.

[Sneezyone]

For years, since she was in elementary, the older kiddo and I have been having a minor quarrel about how to show her work for math (and convincing her it was necessary was step one). No, you can't just scatter your steps all over, and you should label them if there is more than one step. No, you can't skip steps. Yes, you have to check your work, and you have to finish your check all the way to the conclusion. This work in the textbook is easy work for learning, in the real world it's harder and you want to keep track of your thinking. I promise, in high school and college, having good work habits will pay off because your teachers will dock points.

 

Homeschooled for middle school, tossed her back for high school. Yesterday she asked me to help with her math homework and confessed that I was right all along. Her teacher does require that she write down each step in her algebra, that she divided both sides or subtracted both sides or whatever! Her teacher does insist that when she checks her answer, she ends up with 13 = 13 or 0 = 0 at the end! Her teacher does ask them, when doing word problems, to pick variables that make sense and to write a key, and to label each individual step separately! Having neat work actually makes a difference! (And yes, the whole class has been told not to just use the equals sign as a shorthand for "the answer goes here", something I've railed against sufficiently loudly that she never picked up that habit in the first place.)

 

I think I sprained my wrist here I've been patting myself on the back so hard.

Yep. I could've written this last year. You're lucky too. It took DD a FULL six months to decide to get with the program but now she has straight As. 😂 I keep trying to get a few 'you were right Mom' but no dice. Edited October 20, 2017 by Sneezyone

[brehon]

I’ve heard you need to be careful about rotator cuff injuries, too. 😬

[Sneezyone]

I’ve heard you need to be careful about rotator cuff injuries, too. 😬

😂

[kiana]

Good on you for trying. I'm still trying to convince my college students that. Argh. Somehow they've internalized 'smart kids do it in their head'. 

[matrips]

Sounds familiar! Mine joined a math club at the middle school. If students get a certain percentage of their problems right each week, they get a small toy/eraser. I asked him what he received today, and he said nothing because he didn’t show his work. lol.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I'm curious about the step labeling thing.

[Garga]

 (And yes, the whole class has been told not to just use the equals sign as a shorthand for "the answer goes here", something I've railed against sufficiently loudly that she never picked up that habit in the first place.)

 

 

 

 

Out of curiosity, what's the quoted part mean?  Are they supposed to get their answer like 2+2=4 and then write the 4 somewhere else so the teacher can find it?  

[Tanaqui]

I'm curious about the step labeling thing.

 

Well, it's not something that's come up much in algebra, but when she was doing word problems where first she had to add some numbers, then divide some other numbers, then subtract one number from the other, I told her again and again to carefully put a, b, c, by each step, just so her teacher and I could follow her thinking. (And she could follow her own thinking later, I guess.)

 

The eye rolling!

 

But now she admits I was right, even though it hasn't specifically come up in algebra, so I still win.

[Sneezyone]

Out of curiosity, what's the quoted part mean?  Are they supposed to get their answer like 2+2=4 and then write the 4 somewhere else so the teacher can find it?  

 

In my daughter's class, they not only need to put a box around the answer but also explain themselves with a sentence or two if their reasoning is not readily apparent. In Algebra or Geometry, that may mean identifying the property/theorem, by name, that makes the answer valid.

[Word Nerd]

My younger DD also learned she had to copy down problems and show her work neatly. She missed several problems early on because she couldn't read her own handwriting—and neither could the teacher. 

Edited October 20, 2017 by Word Nerd

[Tanaqui]

Out of curiosity, what's the quoted part mean?  Are they supposed to get their answer like 2+2=4 and then write the 4 somewhere else so the teacher can find it?  

 

So some people have a bad habit of writing out multi-step thinking like this:

 

2+2 = 4-7 = -3 x 1.5 = -4.5

 

They do an equation, then just tag another one on the end.

 

The equals sign does not mean "here comes the answer!" It means "This is equal to that", and really, 2+2 is not equal to -4.5.

 

The way you're supposed to do it is

 

2 + 2 = 4

 

4 - 7 = -3

 

-3 x 1.5 = -4.5

 

Which is neat and easy to read. In the grand scheme of things it usually doesn't make too big a difference because you can read your own work and know what you were thinking, but now and again it really muddles things up. Better not to fall into that habit in the first place. (Plus, it's just wrong. That is my hill, and I will die on it.)

 

 

Edited October 20, 2017 by Tanaqui

[kiana]

The equals sign does not mean "here comes the answer!" It means "This is equal to that", and really, 2+2 is not equal to -4.5.

 

Yes. Yes yes. = should ONLY be used when things are actually equal. It should NOT be used to mean "and my next step is".

 

Another example of nonsense that I see in calculus class all the time --

 

f(x) = x^2 = f'(x) = 2x = 0 so x = 0.

 

What the student MEANS is:

 

f(x) = x^2, so by differentiating, f'(x) = 2x. Setting f'(x) = 0, we get x = 0. But that is not what they wrote!

 

This is especially confusing to students when we are attempting to apply the transitive property of equality. If a = b and b = c, then a = c. But this is not true if you use = to mean "and my next step is". 

 

So for anyone who's reading this -- stop your kids from doing this! There is a symbol that it's legal to use to mean "and my next step is", and it's a single wiggly line with an arrow leading to the right. Or you can just go to another line. You can see more info on this in the article, including the actual typeset symbol. https://math.vanderbilt.edu/schectex/commerrs/#Consciousness

 

There's a lot more interesting info in the article I linked if you scroll to other sections. 

[SparklyUnicorn]

Well, it's not something that's come up much in algebra, but when she was doing word problems where first she had to add some numbers, then divide some other numbers, then subtract one number from the other, I told her again and again to carefully put a, b, c, by each step, just so her teacher and I could follow her thinking. (And she could follow her own thinking later, I guess.)

 

The eye rolling!

 

But now she admits I was right, even though it hasn't specifically come up in algebra, so I still win.

 

Huh...never did that myself.

 

I just like to keep up on what is expected!

[Garga]

In my daughter's class, they not only need to put a box around the answer but also explain themselves with a sentence or two if their reasoning is not readily apparent. In Algebra or Geometry, that may mean identifying the property/theorem, by name, that makes the answer valid.

 

 

So some people have a bad habit of writing out multi-step thinking like this:

 

2+2 = 4-7 = -3 x 1.5 = -4.5

 

They do an equation, then just tag another one on the end.

 

The equals sign does not mean "here comes the answer!" It means "This is equal to that", and really, 2+2 is not equal to -4.5.

 

The way you're supposed to do it is

 

2 + 2 = 4

 

4 - 7 = -3

 

-3 x 1.5 = -4.5

 

Which is neat and easy to read. In the grand scheme of things it usually doesn't make too big a difference because you can read your own work and know what you were thinking, but now and again it really muddles things up. Better not to fall into that habit in the first place. (Plus, it's just wrong. That is my hill, and I will die on it.)

 

 

Yes. Yes yes. = should ONLY be used when things are actually equal. It should NOT be used to mean "and my next step is".

 

Another example of nonsense that I see in calculus class all the time --

 

f(x) = x^2 = f'(x) = 2x = 0 so x = 0.

 

What the student MEANS is:

 

f(x) = x^2, so by differentiating, f'(x) = 2x. Setting f'(x) = 0, we get x = 0. But that is not what they wrote!

 

This is especially confusing to students when we are attempting to apply the transitive property of equality. If a = b and b = c, then a = c. But this is not true if you use = to mean "and my next step is". 

 

So for anyone who's reading this -- stop your kids from doing this! There is a symbol that it's legal to use to mean "and my next step is", and it's a single wiggly line with an arrow leading to the right. Or you can just go to another line. You can see more info on this in the article, including the actual typeset symbol. https://math.vanderbilt.edu/schectex/commerrs/#Consciousness

 

There's a lot more interesting info in the article I linked if you scroll to other sections. 

 

 

Ah!  Got it!  My kids have never done this, probably because I was teaching them not to without even knowing it was a thing.  They always go down the page like in Tanaqui's example.  

 

Yeah, it would drive me nuts to see a bunch of equal signs going across the page and not down.

 

I also have my son circle the final answer.

[Ausmumof3]

Singapore math does teach and encourage some great mental math strategies. I think that does encourage my kids to "do it all on their heads". I would never have dreamed of doing some of the stuff in my head that they attempt.

[Sneezyone]

Singapore math does teach and encourage some great mental math strategies. I think that does encourage my kids to "do it all on their heads". I would never have dreamed of doing some of the stuff in my head that they attempt.

 

SM does a great job with mental math, and this is what DD used through Gr5, but it did not go over well when she was unable/unwillng to clearly show her thought processes in B&M school. There, you can get partial credit for the parts of the problem you get right. If you don't show all of your work, there's no way to get/give credit for the parts that you did understand. I foresee the same issue with DS. All he cares about is getting the right answer.

[Ausmumof3]

SM does a great job with mental math, and this is what DD used through Gr5, but it did not go over well when she was unable/unwillng to clearly show her thought processes in B&M school. There, you can get partial credit for the parts of the problem you get right. If you don't show all of your work, there's no way to get/give credit for the parts that you did understand. I foresee the same issue with DS. All he cares about is getting the right answer.

Yes. I do the constant nagging "you have to show your work" thing as well..

[Bluegoat]

I've tried to tell my dd these things - she still does not seem to believe me.  I sometimes wonder why she thinks I am making these things up - just to drive her nuts?

[fraidycat]

I am right there with you!!!

 

My DD has a math brain. “Show your work†was a constant battle for us. Constant. She acted as if I had asked her to perform surgery on herself without any painkillers.

 

And now, in high school, they get part of their points for showing the work. DD was telling me how kids didn’t show their work so didn’t get full marks on some math assignment. I did not refrain from saying “See, I told youâ€. It had to be said.

 

Sweet vindication. :)

[Tanaqui]

Did you do the told you so dance?

 

One

 

Two

 

You can improv it if necessary.

 

Edited to (hopefully) remove auto-embed. Darn it, Youtube, if I wanted to embed it I would've done that!

Edited October 21, 2017 by Tanaqui

[SparklyUnicorn]

It's funny because my kid was somewhat similar.  He resisted writing steps.  So then he started taking his math classes at the CC.  Right now we are taking a class together.  Now he is more militant about steps and labeling than I am!  Seriously, he corrects me when I haven't been thorough enough.  LOL

 

And I was VERY worried about it at one point.

[nixpix5]

Oh I love this! :) It is always nice when you can prove parents actually know what they are talking about.

 

The one I am a stickler for is labeling your units. My son would always balk about my constant reminder to label units until he reached chemistry and physics. I remember the back patting I had when he came home and said "you were right, it is too easy to mess up dimensional analysis without labels"

[Tanaqui]

You know, that's funny, I had to keep reminding her about labeling her units too - but she didn't complain or even roll her eyes, she just did it when I reminded her. I wonder how that's going in her science class!

[kiana]

Oh gosh yes. 

 

I just got done grading a test. I was getting answers where the units would have worked out to be something like radians per inch or something. People, it is a measure of speed, this means that somehow, somewhere, one of your units should not only involve time, but should end up in the denominator. 

 

But units mean nothing -- you just plug in the numbers and then tag the units on at the end, right? (sarcasm)

[idnib]

Oh I love this! :) It is always nice when you can prove parents actually know what they are talking about.

 

The one I am a stickler for is labeling your units. My son would always balk about my constant reminder to label units until he reached chemistry and physics. I remember the back patting I had when he came home and said "you were right, it is too easy to mess up dimensional analysis without labels"

 

I'm a stickler about units too. DS has gotten used to it but DD still needs some reminders. My favorite (gentle) thing is to write in my own units for fun if they're forgotten. I've used quasars, llamas, steeples, blades of grass, etc.