WWYD? Kid going around one parent to get what they want.

[Tap]

DD10 is special needs, so my answer may be different than others, but I am curious how other families would handle this.

 

 

DD10 is not supposed to invite friends to activities. Period. Not ever.  Swimming class, free promo classes at the gym, church, nothing.   She knows this, in fact we just had a big blow up about it less than a month ago.  She asked to invite someone, I said 'No' , gave her the specific examples of why, and she had a massive tantrum because of it. 

 

DD is in Awanas (kids church group) and they are always open to guests and tell the kids this at most club meetings.  I have told dd10, no less than the 10 times, that she is not allowed to invite guests based on previous experiences.  The parents of friends can obviously take their kids themselves (and I would be happy to see them there), but we are in no way able to carpool, so it can get awkward with neighbors.  

 

DD10 has Awanas tonight.  She just told me that DH and a neighbors mom talked and the little girl is going to be DD10's guest at Awanas tonight. I am really frustrated.  I can't get ahold of dh so I don't know how this came up.I don't think he knows why she isn't allowed to invite friends (he travels for work, so doesn't always know the day to day reasons for things).  I texted the mom (a good friend of mine) apologized and said I had to cancel the plan.  I haven't heard back yet, so I don't know how it went over with her. I feel horrible.

 

On one hand, I don't want to punish the little girl!  But I can't let dd10 just side step me and plan things behind my back when she knows better.  Based on dd10's reaction to my questions about how this came about....dd10 knew exactly what she was doing by asking her dad. She was purposefully trying to go around me.  This wasn't an accident.

 

 

Update in #23

 

How do you handle it when a kid side steps one parent, to get what they want? 

 

I don't want to take this activity away as a consequence.  We do not use Church activities as incentives or punishments.  

 

The reason (not part of the question if you want to stop reading)

 

In the past we welcomed friends.  There were a few times that we took friends to church, and the child said  they wanted to go back the next week. I would clear it with parents and they say "sure kiddo can go". But then they maybe forget/get busy and are not home when it is time to leave the house the next week and dd10 flips out, because she is going to be late to church, but the friend isn't home. She doesn't want to leave the friend behind, so she refuses to leave the house (she is 5'4" and 180lbs so you can't make here do anything).  But is she is crying and yelling because she wants to go to her group, and is already late, but the friend isn't home.  She is autistic and can't shift expectations easily.  She will lay on the floor and kick and scream at the top over he lungs, having a 30 minute tantrum over these types of circumstances. Even when the parents contact me and say they can't make it, so I can tell her ahead of time, she will insist we wait just incase they change their minds. Because the kid maybe told her 3 weeks ago,  they would be able to go.... so she fixates on that and that the parent is wrong.

 

She has also insisted on inviting people at the very last minute.  Like we are walking out the door to get in the car and she takes off running to the neighbors to invite a new person, because she just remembered it is 'bring a friend night'.  Then I am stuck trying to introduce myself to a new family, and explain that "yes, dd just invited your child to church, but it isn't on a future day...it is right now and we are pulling out of the driveway, and do you want to trust a person you just met with your child at a church you have never heard of"...etc

 

Other things have happened too, and every single time, it has caused an incident on a future week.......So, that is we have a 'no friend' rule.  LOL  

 

 

 

 

Edited October 19, 2017 by Tap

[HomeAgain]

At that age, I'd be quite purposeful.  Dh and I talk while he's at work - I send him an email or text to tell him about our day and bring up any issues I dealt with so he's on the same page.  Even at 7yo, youngest ds can be a bit...intense...when he wants something.  Dh does the same for me when I go out.  And the kid knows it.  All one of us has to say is "you already asked <other parent>.  You have your answer."

 

 

[maize]

not really an answer to your question, but could your dd be feeling pressured by the activity organizers--they are authority figures telling her she is supposed to bring a friend, and then you as another authority figure tell her she can't, but she thinks she needs to to make the first people happy/do things right so she appeals to a third authority figure?

 

My kids with anxiety/rigidity issues are profoundly stressed when they think an outside authority figure is expecting something of them and there is an obstacle in the way.

Edited October 19, 2017 by maize

[fraidycat]

We, as the parents, had to get on the same page.

 

Generally, the response is “What did your mom say when you asked her?†Simply because, I am the primary knower-of-all-things with all the reasons (schedule, behavior, responsibilities, family budget, etc) they can or cannot do something. DH is away from home more than at home due to work, too.

 

If I tell them to ask their dad instead, I will let him know that the decision is his to make either in person if he’s home, or will send a quick text if the kid(s) will be calling him.

 

Before we came up with this system, they had to go with the No, and got a long, boring lecture about sneakiness and dishonesty, and our expectations about honesty. We didn’t give them any additional punishment beyond the lecture, because they No-Yes-NO was usually disappointing/punishment enough.

 

ETA: If they had made a regular practice of it, then we might have had to institute harsher consequences, but I have no experience to share in that regard, so don’t know what I would do.

Edited October 18, 2017 by fraidycat

[Tanaqui]

Without addressing this specific situation, I think you and your husband need to have a serious talk and set up a ground rule: If she asks him for something that at all involves YOU (like taking another child with you to a class or activity) then he needs to run it by you. Honestly, I'd be steaming mad - at him! He doesn't need to know your reason for this rule, or even that the rule exists. He should not have agreed to anything on your behalf.

[eternalsummer]

I also think Awanas is a uniquely difficult activity for this kind of situation.  They evangelize, and they are pressuring your daughter to evangelize, and she is not allowed to evangelize.  It's rough.  I might try to find another activity - even just another church youth group that is less gung-ho on the evangelism  - that doesn't cause as much stress.

[Melissa in Australia]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

 

I think you are handling it great.

[bolt.]

I think your church is manufacturing this problem. It borders on spiritual abuse in many church settings when they imply (sometimes openly) that people (especially children) have s duty to please God by inviting friends. Your church might not be on the extreme end of this issue -- but I think you need to have a serious talk with the leadership about her special needs.

 

She especially needs to be told (every time it comes up!) that kids should only bring a friend if their parents think it is a good idea, and should absolutely not do so if the parents advise against it. If there are prizes, acknowledgements, check marks or whatever for bringing friends -- those need to be made available to her in some other way.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I am just here to second (or third or fourth?) the possibility that the expectations of the program are too much in opposition to the home rules that are obviously needed. I think a neurotypical child would struggle with the dichotomy, honestly.

[Rachel]

Our rule is that if you already asked one parent, you have to go by what they said. My husband and his sister grew up knowing exactly which parent to go to to get the answer they wanted. That never flew with my parents.

 

With my kids I usually ask if they already talked to dad, if so what did he say. As far as getting together with friends, with the exception of when he's at work and the friend is coming then, we always run it past each other to make sure it fits with the other persons plans. We have had occasions where the kids wanted to watch tv or get a treat and the first parent said no so the kid asked the other parent. The punishment is usually loss of whatever they asked for, for a period of time. That wouldn't work in your situation and I know you are dealing with some unique challenges.

 

For this particular situation I think your husband needs to run friend plans past you first.

[Innisfree]

I agree with the others that the nature of the Awanas group makes this extra hard. Would they understand if you explained the difficulty to them? Could their requests to invite others be handled differently: perhaps as emails to kids' parents, rather than by asking the kids directly to extend invitations?

 

I'd be talking with my dh, too, to make sure he understood the need to clear things with me.

 

Honestly, in this situation I'd be less provoked with your dd than with the adults who are not taking your needs and your dd's needs seriously.

 

Would your dd be able to work out a plan with you and the Awanas leaders that, instead of bringing a friend, she had a different job to do? And then get a reward each week? Maybe that could give her something to look forward to, and eliminate any tension between your rules and Awanas expectations.

 

Mostly you have my sympathy. I know this is hard.

Edited October 19, 2017 by Innisfree

[katilac]

That's a tough one. I would have probably asked the mom to call me, or (if we were used to long text conversations), asked her if her dd was truly looking forward to it. Because I get not wanted to use church activities as punishment or incentive with your daughter, but if this other little girl was actually invited by dh and was looking forward to going . . . well, not bringing draws a hard line with your dd, which is good, but potentially disappoints the other little girl at the last minute, which is bad. 

 

It's possible the other mom will have no idea what you are talking about, lol. If I made arrangements with a good friend's dh, but my good friend was the one doing the driving and whatnot, I can't imagine it not coming up in conversation before this. I probably would have texted almost right away, "do you know that your dh said my kid could go to Awana's?" because experience. 

 

Generally speaking, I don't know that Awanas and a no-inviting-friends rule go together very well. Just about every youth group I have ever encountered has been persistent with the invitations, and Awana seems to be in a category of their own, lol. They are openly evangelical and hard-core about inviting guests - it's a 'badge requirement' or whatever the equivalent is. 

 

Would she understand a "no giving people rides" rule? That way, she would be doing as she is told at Awana (inviting friends) but it does not affect her own plans, she is not waiting on anyone, and so on. You can explain the situation to the parents, and offer a ride home if they do show up. 

 

Other than that, I think you just have to do what you've been doing, a few more thousand times. 

[nixpix5]

We institute a double of whatever discipline you’d have otherwise gotten as a baseline. Oftentimes with additional consequences as needed. Pitting one parent against another or going to another to see a different answer is one of our few zero tolerance issues in this house, right up there with lying.

 

Not sure if that would work for her though. Since she isn’t neurotypical I’m not sure if that would work. What is her currency?

We too hold it to the same seriousness as lying. We refer to it as being divisive. We don't believe in triangulating any family members and that is one that is never ok in our home. We are purposeful when they are small to always over communicate what we tell the kids so we don't step on toes.

[bolt.]

Oh: what do I do when a child sidesteps one parent to get what they want from the other parent...

 

I would be surprised and probably

A: Ask the child if she had difficulty understanding how my rule or instruction already applied, and (most likely) confirm that she was looking for a second opinion on purpose.

B: Tell the child that she should let me know if she intends to confer with the other parent, and frame it as a desire to confer, not as going around.

C: Talk openly with my husband about how he and I arrived at different answers, looking for mutual understanding, compromise, and a plan for similar future ocurrances.

D: Let my dd know that dad and I had talked through the reasons for our different thoughts on this (sharing some of that data) and tell her the final decision.

E: Explain that it hurt my feelings that she did this in a secretive way, and that -- while she is always free to talk to dad -- it's important that she let both of us in on all the info. Meaning: I should know that she wants to ask dad about something, and dad should know that she already talked with me about it. That way I have the best opportunity to change my mind without my hurt feelings making me want to stick to my guns. In fact, it's best, if she wants to involve dad, that we just talk all 3 of us and skip the back-and-forth.

 

(Also, that one yes and one no isn't actually permission anyhow, so she has to get back to me no matter what. Dad's yes does not allow her to break my rules or ignore my instructions. It takes either one yes, and no other data; or two yeses to form permission.)

[gardenmom5]

this is an issue between you and your dh.   she's going around you - becasue you and your dh are not united.

 

Your dh KNOWS she's not allowed to invite friends, but he allowed her to anyway.   The two of you need to work this out to be a united front.  it actually gives kids more security (even if the tantrums might seem to increase.  it's how they vent.)

 

if he's resistant - if she gets overstimulated with having a friend there and has issues in teh car coming home, have him pick her up.  he needs to deal with it.  maybe if he sees what you're trying to prevent, he'll be more understanding.

 

my kids knew, if mom said no, it was pointless to ask dad - becasue he would ask what mom said. (even if it meant tracking me down by phone.)  dudeling is even learning it with 1&2dss.  they'll back me up first.

[bettyandbob]

I'd talk to dh and tell him he has to consult with you before allowing stuff. If there's no time to consult then the answer is no.

 

If he wants to be able to say yes, he can only say yes to things he can guarantee he will completely take care of. Since he travels it's unlikely he can do that.

[Arcadia]

For anything that need permission, my husband would get the kids to ask me. However if our kids were to invite someone without our knowledge, then that is going to result in one of us having to let the person and his/her parent know that the invitation is not feasible.

 

When my DS12 was in public school kindergarten, a classmate invited another classmate to a play date without the parents knowledge. The teacher was surprised when the kindergartener told her that she is going home with the other kindergartener because they have a play date. So the teacher waited with the kids at the pickup area to confirm with the parents. The moms were shocked.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

I'd ignore the behavior and prevent it from happening again.

 

In this case you were able to message the parent, the extra kid isn't going with you, so ignore the side stepping. But talk to dh. If he's not gone dealing with day to day stuff, then he can't make those decisions, no matter how little they seem.

[katilac]

 

Your dh KNOWS she's not allowed to invite friends, but he allowed her to anyway.    

 

Well, that's her story, lol. I myself would wait and see what dh has to say about it. Or my friend, for that matter. My first text to her actually would have been, do you know anything about your dd coming to Awana tonight?

 

Sometimes kids take a single thread and weave it into what they want. 

[Tap]

Ok so got the story from both...

 

Dh says dd asked him if friend could go with her to Awanas. Dh told her he can't drive friend in his car (company car with only 2 seats) but the other mom could drive them both.  Kids cleared it with the other mom, and she was planning to drive them.  I am trying to get DH to be more of an active parent to DD10, I am overwhelmed and sick of being a single mom with another parent in the home. Quite literally, my older kids have came and asked me before "do you think dad will drive me to XYZ" when he is in the house!  They were so used to him being gone, it didn't occur to them, that they could actually talk to him in person, without going through me.  I am trying to break this habit in dd10.  To dh's credit, he figured that the only hurdle would be driving them back and forth, and he thought he resolve that.  He now knows different.  :0)

 

The other mom was very understanding. She had agreed to drive them but was willing to cancel. She has 5 kids, 4 that have step parents.  She fully understands co-parenting struggles and enforcing rules.  We had just talked last week about how most kid punishments are harder on the parent, than the kid. LOL  She smoothed things over with her daughter and it all worked out fine. 

 

 

[JFSinIL]

1. make sure hubby is aware that he is not ever to agree to taking a friend to an activity. Sounds like he thought he had handled the transportation problem...now he knows better.  Having you both on the same page that never EVER is a friend to go to anything from now on will make life a tad easier eventually. 

 

2. be prepared for some tantrums when you CANCEL an activity whenever dd tries to do a last-minute invite.  Eventually she will learn - I have an autistic child (now 26) and it does take a lot of repetition to change a habit.

 

3.  While I am sure the AWANAS folks are making a blanket statement to everyone to "invite a friend!" can't hurt to let them know this is a problem for dd, and if she ever does NOT show up, it is because she had no friend to take and had a melt down over it.  And that from now on she is never bringing a friend.    After reading your update - I'd alter the rule to being a friend may come...if their own parent drives them  and I mean just them (friend), you still take dd yourself.  You need to talk to the other parent and let them know why you have to do it this way, and that once friend is there you can drive both of them home.  Note if friend does not show up, the dealing with the disappointment  will be AWANAS problem ;-)  and not to be mean, but maybe they need to see what you are dealing with over this bring a friend issue.

 

       If this continues to be a big issue, does she HAVE to go to AWANAS?  Or at least, next time there is a tantrum, calmly (when she quiets down) let her know she is taking a break from AWANAS for a couple weeks.  She will fuss (understatement) but it will make an impression.  Mark a calendar of the day she will be going back (unless she tries to invite a friend again - then move it back a week).   I'd do this for a neuro-typical kid, too. 

 

Our neighbors had kids in AWANAS and the pressure to let them take one of my kids (not lad with autism,but his fraternal twin) was intense until I said "Ok, as long as my kid can take your kid to his Church events" (we are Roman C.).  Rather then send their kid to a Catholic anything  they stopped asking mine to go to AWANAS ;-)

Edited October 19, 2017 by JFSinIL

[regentrude]

I think the problem is not with the child, but with your DH. Even if he travels for work, he either needs to stay involved and know your rules AND the reasons for the rules, or he needs to defer all parenting decisions to you (which is less than ideal). With technology, I don't see his work travel as an excuse for him not to be aware of why you have certain rules. Nor would I expect him to follow your rules if he has not been explained the reasons for them - he needs to know what is going on with his child.

Edited October 19, 2017 by regentrude

[elegantlion]

not really an answer to your question, but could your dd be feeling pressured by the activity organizers--they are authority figures telling her she is supposed to bring a friend, and then you as another authority figure tell her she can't, but she thinks she needs to to make the first people happy/do things right so she appeals to a third authority figure?

 

My kids with anxiety/rigidity issues are profoundly stressed when they think an outside authority figure is expecting something of them and there is an obstacle in the way.

 

Our short experience with Awana was that the bring a friend was very pushed. Ds attended as a guest one night and when we went to pick him it up, it was worse than many MLM spiels I've been given. It colored my opinion of the program (although I know locality was probably part of the issue too). 

 

 

[HSmomof2]

I haven’t read all the responses, but I’d make sure dh was on the same page about no friend invites. Also, in our experience with a couple different Awana groups, they can be pretty pushy about telling the kids to invite a friend. I understand about wanting kids to invite friends, but some groups can be a little over the top.

[Ravin]

My #1 solution to this would be to get your DH on board with the current situation. He should not have agreed to something without consulting you first, especially (mostly) since you are the go-to parent for this activity. The problem here is not your DD, it's communication between parents which could be improved.

 

[almondbutterandjelly]

Gently, the thing is, it seems like your dd is getting mixed messages.  Every week, the adults at Awana say "Bring a friend!"  even though Mom says no.  But Mom used to say yes, and now Dad said yes.  And you keep taking her to a place where they directly contradict you.  Awana: "Yes, bring a friend."  Mom:  "No, not anymore.  Don't bring a friend."  Next week,"Yes, bring a friend."  I can see where it would be confusing.

 

I don't know that your dd is being sneaky by asking dh.  She's just trying to work within the system she has been placed.  Dh actually sounds like he handled it well. 

 

To co-parent, sometimes you need that parent to experience the negative consequences.  Was he going to be around to experience the consequences?  If so, then it might have been good to let it go forth.  And who knows, maybe it would have worked.  Sometimes the other parent pushes us out of our comfort zone.

 

((hugs))

[bolt.]

I'm not understanding what harm is done when a child finds out that in some cases mom and dad have different ideas about what the child should/n't be allowed to do.

 

What does the child think is going to happen -- other than that mom and dad will chat, compromise, and let her know a final decision shortly? What do the parents experience that make the chat seem like a catastrophe?

 

And why are children considered to be doing a bad thing if they consult both of their parents on a permission issue? My kids do it openly, so I get that they shouldn't be lying their way through it... but what's the big deal?

[TXBeth]

If she is never going to be allowed to invite friends, you will need to either make that clear to the leaders and ask for an exception or pull her out of AWANA. It is not fair to a kid (esp a kid w/autism) to have them in that program and not allow them to invite friends. If they don't invite friends they can't finish their books and receive the awards, they are left out of a lot of drawings and prizes, and they have to stand up to a LOT of pressure from the organization.

[Katy]

Pitting parents against each other is DH's #1 hated child behavior. With the slightest hint of it, he warns everyone in the house that pulling that sort of thing will result in an extra punishment.

 

That said, no one gets away with it here because the slightest trouble results in me texting DH with whatever happened, or at the very least the result, "Btw...  DD10 has lost the privilege of inviting any friends anywhere for at least 6 months.  Fill you in on the details later," etc.

[Tap]

I know a few people have said to pull her from Awana because of the rule. If I pull her from every activity that her Austism causes issues with, she would never leave the house. It would be like telling a food allergic kid to never attend an activity with food. The social complications of her dx permeate every thing in her life. She is aware of her over reactions. She can see it after the fact, she just has very, very little impulse control in a moment of fruatration. When I talked to her about it afterward, she knew exactly what she had done and why I was upset.

 

The leaders know about her issues and have agreed to waive any requirements or bonuses having to do with guests. Our church specifically doesnt *push evangelism, but does let the kids and community know they and guests are welcome.

 

She knows rules are often different for her, she has grown up with her issues. It is just part of her life and while not always fun...it is her reality. These extra rules are what make her life as *normal as possible.

Edited October 20, 2017 by Tap

[bolt.]

Pitting parents against each other is DH's #1 hated child behavior. With the slightest hint of it, he warns everyone in the house that pulling that sort of thing will result in an extra punishment.

 

That said, no one gets away with it here because the slightest trouble results in me texting DH with whatever happened, or at the very least the result, "Btw... DD10 has lost the privilege of inviting any friends anywhere for at least 6 months. Fill you in on the details later," etc.

I'm confused as to how the child's actions could change two people who love to collaborate into two people who are pitted against each other. It just doesn't seem possible that parents in conflict is (a) what the child wants, or ( b ) what the child's action is actually likely to accomplish. So, if the possibility is so farfetched, why do parents have such a hot button over it? Has your DH explained the logic of his reaction to you at all?

[KungFuPanda]

I think you have two problems. If your DH can't keep the rules straight then your daughter won't be able to do it, so he needs to be on board. You CANNOT blame her for asking Daddy. His answer is the problem. That's ALL him. The second problem is the compulsive invitations. I'd just have a speech ready. "I'm sorry. She's a compulsive Inviter. We always tell her no. She keeps doing it. We're working on it." People get it. Everyone's kid is weird in their own way. It might help to get her Awana teacher in the loop and have them specifically tell your daughter not to invite people. The kids getting mixed messages from adults in charge of her so I don't blame her for being confused.

[KungFuPanda]

Pitting parents against each other is DH's #1 hated child behavior. With the slightest hint of it, he warns everyone in the house that pulling that sort of thing will result in an extra punishment.

 

That said, no one gets away with it here because the slightest trouble results in me texting DH with whatever happened, or at the very least the result, "Btw... DD10 has lost the privilege of inviting any friends anywhere for at least 6 months. Fill you in on the details later," etc.

I don't understand how it's even possible for a kid to do this? They can make the attempt, and get caught, but how can they actually pit the adults against one another? Has it ever worked? What could they possibly gain?

[kiwik]

I don't understand how it's even possible for a kid to do this? They can make the attempt, and get caught, but how can they actually pit the adults against one another? Has it ever worked? What could they possibly gain?

It seems it would only be an issue if the parents already had problems.

[Katy]

I'm confused as to how the child's actions could change two people who love to collaborate into two people who are pitted against each other. It just doesn't seem possible that parents in conflict is (a) what the child wants, or ( b ) what the child's action is actually likely to accomplish. So, if the possibility is so farfetched, why do parents have such a hot button over it? Has your DH explained the logic of his reaction to you at all?

 

I suspect DH has an issue with this because he hates manipulation due to some issues in his family as a child.  And as foster parents I suspect the kids in our home are more likely to be exposed to manipulation than the average child, so it's probably been more of an issue in our family than most.  Anyway, the consequence would be appropriate and in line with whatever is the currency of that child.

[bolt.]

Because it is disrespecting authority. They don't like hearing no, so they go to someone else to get a yes. My no means no. Parents MUST be on the same page. Period.

Why "MUST" parents be on the same page? What exactly happens if parents (being two people) have different perspectives on a situation, but agree on one course of action? What issues arise from a child watching their parents do that?

 

If kids are accustomed to their parents acting like individuals who are partners, they tend to deal freely with each parent -- which means they occasionally discover a difference of opinion before the parents become aware of it. In those cases, they make the parents aware of it, and the resulting solution might or might not be what they preferred.

 

Is it "disrespecting authority" in your family every time a child doesn't like a 'no' and makes efforts to get that 'no' reconsidered? If that's the case, then I can indeed see that all efforts to change a no are disrespectful, than this is definitly an effort to change a no.

 

However, if there are any type of permitted strategies towards changing a no within you definition of respectful behaviour, I don't see 'try consulting with another equal authority in case there might be another point of view that should be considered in the overall decision' as a particularly anti-authority strategy. (It seems fairly pro-authority to me, actually.)

 

Do you never reconsider a 'no' if you discover that your partner sees things differently?

Edited October 20, 2017 by bolt.

[EmseB]

Parents can certainly compromise and change minds.

 

The issue is that if one parent says no, going to get a yes from the other parent without revealing that the other parent already said no is dishonest. It's not trying to change the no parent into a yes, it's trying to do something behind their back and using the unaware parent to do so.

 

There are honest and dishonest ways for kids to try to change a no to a yes.

[bolt.]

So you go over 'lies by omission are still lies' (possibly for the 105 time) and carry on deciding the right thing to do in the permission situation.

 

 

What would you think if there was no deception? Maybe if the child asked, "If I ask (other parent) and they say it's ok, do you think you might reconsider?"

 

What would you think if the child originally didn't tell the 2nd parent what the first parent had already said -- but once they received an impartial answer, they went on to reveal the fact that it had already been discussed with the other parent, so that the topic could be fully explored.

 

Does having the second conversation actually require 'giving notice' in order to be not deceptive?

Edited October 20, 2017 by bolt.

[Innisfree]

An honest discussion of parental decisions is perfectly fine, IMO. I am generally open to revising decisions based on discussion.

 

My only problem would be with a child intentionally concealing the fact that Parent 1 had already made a decision while trying to get Parent 2 to reverse, *and act on*, that decision before Parent 1 finds out. I find that deceptive.

 

But, you know, I also find it within the limits of normal childish behavior to try it once or twice. It would not make me particularly furious.

[EmseB]

So you go over 'lies by omission are still lies' (possibly for the 105 time) and carry on deciding the right thing to do in the permission situation.

 

 

What would you think if there was no deception? Maybe if the child asked, "If I ask (other parent) and they say it's ok, do you think you might reconsider?"

 

What would you think if the child originally didn't tell the 2nd parent what the first parent had already said -- but once they received an impartial answer, they went on to reveal the fact that it had already been discussed with the other parent, so that the topic could be fully explored.

 

Does having the second conversation actually require 'giving notice' in order to be not deceptive?

 

If there's no deception, then there's no deception and therefore no a problem. The bolded sounds purposefully manipulative. If a kid wants to keep any aspect of information from me in order to see what I'd say in a vacuum, the answer I would give is not useful to them in any way, and it certainly couldn't be used to go and disobey something their father told them simply because I gave them a different answer later not knowing his answer.  Because I don't parent in a vacuum, certainly not when they have already talked to their dad.

 

To be honest, he only way I can see it working where I would say yes when my husband said no would be a logistics issue where he's saying no because he can't facilitate and I say yes because I can.  But usually that's very out in the open as the reason why something can't happen and it isn't deceptive to go ask dad for a ride because mom is busy at that time.  That's certainly not the issue in the OP.

Edited October 21, 2017 by EmseB

[katilac]

Our short experience with Awana was that the bring a friend was very pushed.  

 

 

Also, in our experience with a couple different Awana groups, they can be pretty pushy about telling the kids to invite a friend. 

 

"Reaching kids" is the raison d'etre of Awanas. I find the format annoying, but, in their defense, they are open about being an evangelical organization. 

 

 

I don't know that your dd is being sneaky by asking dh.  She's just trying to work within the system she has been placed.  Dh actually sounds like he handled it well. 

 

 

I agree, he may have missed the mark, but I can see how his solution seemed like a reasonable alternative. The biggest 'miss' was not giving the OP a heads-up. dh knows to tell me these things, because he is not The Keeper of the Calendar.