Have we talked about THIS? Joshua Boyle/Canadian family held hostage in Afghanistan

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

I don't think this is political, exactly, but I could be wrong. At least, my reasons for asking aren't political. I'm thinking more about the motivations of this couple and wondering what on earth is truly going on here. 

 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/caitlan-coleman-joshua-boyle-canada-freed-taliban-linked-group-captivity/

 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/caitlan-coleman-joshua-boyle-hostage-kids-captivity/

 

 

[Scarlett]

I haven't followed this story at all.  I just thought they were hostages that finally got freed.

[MercyA]

I thought they were in the area for religious and humanitarian reasons when they were taken hostage. Do you think there was something else going on? It seems pretty straightforward to me. 

[Lanny]

The DH was not willing to fly aboard aircraft with a U.S. Flag. He was afraid that he would end up in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.  Someone who had done nothing wrong probably would not have that fear?

[Janeway]

The DH was not willing to fly aboard aircraft with a U.S. Flag. He was afraid that he would end up in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. Someone who had done nothing wrong probably would not have that fear?

. I definitely all that suspicious. Plus I found a questionable that they managed to get pregnant three more times while there.

[MercyA]

The DH was not willing to fly aboard aircraft with a U.S. Flag. He was afraid that he would end up in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.  Someone who had done nothing wrong probably would not have that fear?

 

If only that were true! MANY innocent people have been taken to Guantanamo. I don't blame the husband one bit.

[MercyA]

. I definitely all that suspicious. Plus I found a questionable that they managed to get pregnant three more times while there.

 

The husband said they had a lot of time on their hands and had always wanted a large family. His wife was already in her 30's and they didn't know how long they would be imprisoned. 

 

We might question the wisdom of what they did (especially since one child was murdered), but I understand why they did it.

Edited October 18, 2017 by MercyA

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

I thought they were in the area for religious and humanitarian reasons when they were taken hostage. Do you think there was something else going on? It seems pretty straightforward to me. 

 

That's the weird thing. I don't think it's straightforward at all. They intentionally had multiple children while in captivity, even after their captors killed their first baby, because they wanted to get a jump start on their big family and the wife's "biological clock was ticking"? And according to one article, Boyle "was once married to Zaynab Khadr, the older sister of former Guantanamo Bay detainee Omar Khadr and the daughter of a senior al-Qaida financier. Her father, the late Ahmed Said Khadr, and the family stayed with Osama bin Laden briefly when Omar Khadr was a boy."

 

I initially read they were in the area as "pilgrims" and then later they said they he and his very pregnant wife were backpacking?

 

It's just all so strange. 

[Lanny]

If only that were true! MANY innocent people have been taken to Guantanamo. I don't blame the husband one bit.

 

He seemed to acknowledge, tacitly, that he was guilty of something very bad. At first, when they refused to go to the USA, or fly aboard U.S. aircraft, their destination (Canada) was unknown. He is Canadian.

[Jean in Newcastle]

The DH was not willing to fly aboard aircraft with a U.S. Flag. He was afraid that he would end up in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.  Someone who had done nothing wrong probably would not have that fear?

 

The first article says that he was once married to the sister of a Guantanamo Bay detainee. 

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

The husband said they had a lot of time on their hands and had always wanted a large family. His wife was already in her 30's and they didn't know how long they would be imprisoned. 

 

We might question the wisdom of what they did (especially since one child was murdered), but I understand why they did it.

 

Wow. No, I don't understand it at all. 

[Liz CA]

Well, I don't want to get too deep into this because I have little background info...but I could think of other places to backpack while pregnant than Afghanistan. However, if they were there working on humanitarian efforts, it may make more sense. I only read the backpacking part , not any other reason they were there.

[MercyA]

That's the weird thing. I don't think it's straightforward at all. They intentionally had multiple children while in captivity, even after their captors killed their first baby, because they wanted to get a jump start on their big family and the wife's "biological clock was ticking"? And according to one article, Boyle "was once married to Zaynab Khadr, the older sister of former Guantanamo Bay detainee Omar Khadr and the daughter of a senior al-Qaida financier. Her father, the late Ahmed Said Khadr, and the family stayed with Osama bin Laden briefly when Omar Khadr was a boy."

 

I initially read they were in the area as "pilgrims" and then later they said they he and his very pregnant wife were backpacking?

 

It's just all so strange. 

 

I didn't realize it was the first baby who was killed. :sad: Given that, I do question their decision to have more. [it looks like this was possibly not the case after all and it was their fourth baby who was killed: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5004737/Kids-couple-freed-Pakistan-pictured-playing-home.html.]

 

I don't think the family ties necessarily prove anything. 

 

As far as their motivation goes:

 

"The couple set off in the summer of 2012 for a journey that took them to Russia, the central Asian countries of Kazakhstan, Tajikistan and Kyrgyzstan, and then to Afghanistan.

 

'They were interested in cultures that are under-developed,' said Caitlan's mother, Lyn Coleman, in 2014. 

 

The trip to Afghanistan was not on the couple's original itinerary, according to Sarah Flood, who was close friends with Coleman.

Jim Coleman, Caitlan's father, said in 2014 that while they were in central Asia, the couple met people who spoke highly of Afghanistan. 

'They met one or two people who said Afghanistan was the most beautiful country and that it was relatively safe because U.S. forces were there,' he said. 

 

Flood said that before Coleman left, she supported the idea of her friend going because she had recently been to Ukraine for 10 days, where she helped provide medical treatment in and around Kiev during the summer of 2010. 'The idea of going to a country and being helpful is something we absolutely shared,' Flood said.

 

'They really and truly believed that if people were loved and treated with respect that that would be given back to them in kind,' said Linda Boyle, Boyle's mother."

 

"Boyle said he and Coleman were in Afghanistan to help villagers 'who live deep inside Taliban-controlled Afghanistan where no NGO [non-governmental organization], no aid worker and no government has ever successfully been able to bring the necessary help.'"

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2017/10/14/what-were-caitlan-coleman-and-joshua-boyle-doing-afghanistan/764516001/

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/joshua-boyle-says-taliban-linked-captors-raped-caitlan-coleman-killed-infant-daughter/2017/10/14/595b1d2c-b0d1-11e7-a908-a3470754bbb9_story.html?utm_term=.98bca4198137

Edited October 22, 2017 by MercyA

[MercyA]

He seemed to acknowledge, tacitly, that he was guilty of something very bad. 

 

Where did he say that? He was doing humanitarian work.

[freesia]

I don't find the kid so odd, because it's unlikely they had access to birth control.

 

I am so sad for them and her in particular.  I can't imagine living and being a new mom in that kind of situation.  I read this morning that she went to the hospital this morning. I'm wondering if it was psychiatric reasons.

 

I do find their reasons for being there suspicious.  However, I have known a lot of idealistic young people who don't have a sense of danger/caution.

[Amy in NH]

I heard or read somewhere in the past week that in addition to having her first child murdered, she had been repeatedly raped by the captors.  It is possible that not all the children are her husband's?

[MercyA]

I heard or read somewhere in the past week that in addition to having her first child murdered, she had been repeatedly raped by the captors.  It is possible that not all the children are her husband's?

 

It sounds like maybe she was raped only once rather than repeatedly:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/joshua-boyle-says-taliban-linked-captors-raped-caitlan-coleman-killed-infant-daughter/2017/10/14/595b1d2c-b0d1-11e7-a908-a3470754bbb9_story.html?utm_term=.99636edeabd5

[Bluegoat]

I found it a bit odd too.

 

The best I've really been able to figure out is that they were really naive and idealistic.

 

As far as having kids - I kind of wonder if their reasoning as stated is a bit for public consumption.  My guess is that they just got pregnant, because they didn't manage to be celibate for 5 years.

[MercyA]

nm

Edited October 18, 2017 by MercyA

[Jyhwkmama]

She was pregnant when they set off to go backpacking deep in Afghanistan.  I find that choice odd. Really odd.

[mathnerd]

The DH was not willing to fly aboard aircraft with a U.S. Flag. He was afraid that he would end up in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.  Someone who had done nothing wrong probably would not have that fear?

The husband's ex-wife is related to a Guantanamo bay detainee. He also stayed with Osama Bin Laden in the past (or stayed with Osama's family). There are things that no one is explaining clearly. They called all of it a "coincidence". That is the reason the guy would not get on an American plane - he claims that something might happen to him if he does.

 

He seems to have had a lot of medical care (3 children born, presumably with medical help for the births, postnatal care) and they do not look malnourished. I am thinking of spy agencies, CIA, terrorist sympathizers, deep undercover agents, drug running for the taliban etc. - all because I have an active imagination. Not that any of it is true or explained to the public.

Edited October 18, 2017 by mathnerd

[TheReader]

The husband's ex-wife is related to a Guantanamo bay detainee. He also stayed with Osama Bin Laden in the past (or stayed with Osama's family). There are things that no one is explaining clearly. They called all of it "coincidence". That is the reason the guy would not get on an American plane - he claims that something might happen to him if he does.

 

I am thinking of spying, CIA, terrorist sympathizers, deep undercover agents etc. - all because I have an active imagination. Not that any of it is true or explained to the public.

 

I read that as meaning the relative of Boyle's ex-wife had stayed with Osama's family, not that Boyle himself had....

 

The main thing I find suspicious is the way the husband now seems to be almost campaigning about their ordeal. One article quotes him as saying he wants to build a sanctuary, a home, a safe haven for him and his family. The other articles all talk about not sharing the same ideology as the US State Dept, as not wanting to focus on their own pleasure or comfort, when so much injustice still exists in the world. The two quotes, to me, seem nearly at odds with each other. 

 

Also the fact that the story, when it broke, was about an American woman, her husband & children; since their return to Canada, it's almost exclusively the husband guiding the story, directing the story, feeding lines to the journalists (he emailed, he sent photos, he reached out....) all while the extended family asks that the media give them their privacy. 

 

So, I find his reaction or his actions now to be odd/suspicious, in that they seem opposite of what I imagine I would probably do. But, as I've never been held captive, let alone for 5 yrs, I don't feel adequate to guess or speculate on what the "right" or "normal" response would be, so while I acknowledge it seems odd....I also acknowledge, "who the heck am I to say?" No one, really. 

 

As for the kids, the only part about that which seemed odd to me was a pleasant surprise that their captors were at least keeping them together. I'm surprised by that fact, but not so much by the fact they didn't abstain during their captivity. Intimacy can be a very grounding, healing, necessary thing at times, even in times when you'd think it to be the last thing on someone's mind. 

[6packofun]

Where did he say that? He was doing humanitarian work.

 

Do you have a link with info on the humanitarian work he was doing? Was this on their own or with any ties whatsoever to an organization or religious group?

Edited October 18, 2017 by 6packofun

[6packofun]

What kind of monitoring and/or counseling is this family going to receive over the long term?  That's my question.  Anyone held by a terrorist group for more than a few weeks should be monitored for quite a while after returning, IMO.  From the articles it seems like Canada has sort of just said, "Welcome back!" and sent them to family, but I have only read the 2 articles here so far.

[Bluegoat]

The husband's ex-wife is related to a Guantanamo bay detainee. He also stayed with Osama Bin Laden in the past (or stayed with Osama's family). There are things that no one is explaining clearly. They called all of it a "coincidence". That is the reason the guy would not get on an American plane - he claims that something might happen to him if he does.

 

He seems to have had a lot of medical care (3 children born, presumably with medical help for the births, postnatal care) and they do not look malnourished. I am thinking of spy agencies, CIA, terrorist sympathizers, deep undercover agents, drug running for the taliban etc. - all because I have an active imagination. Not that any of it is true or explained to the public.

 

Yes, she was the brother of Omar Kadhr.  

 

If I was related to him, I'd be pretty disinclined to get on an American plane as well - talk about abuse of all your rights as an accused person, not to mention a citizen and minor.

 

That being said - the Kadhr family parents were involved in fundamentalist/insurgent activities, and were involved in that social circle.  So that does seem to raise the question of whether that was something the husband in this family was involved in.  

[Liz CA]

I don't find the kid so odd, because it's unlikely they had access to birth control.

 

I am so sad for them and her in particular.  I can't imagine living and being a new mom in that kind of situation.  I read this morning that she went to the hospital this morning. I'm wondering if it was psychiatric reasons.

 

I do find their reasons for being there suspicious.  However, I have known a lot of idealistic young people who don't have a sense of danger/caution.

 

Yes, Boyle's mother is quoted upthread that they thought "if they offered love and kindness people would return in kind."

Seems rather naive (I suppose they are young).

 

[MercyA]

Do you have a link with info on the humanitarian work he was doing? Was this on their own or with any ties whatsoever to an organization or religious group?

 

They "travelled to the Taliban-held region with hopes to do some kind of unofficial humanitarian work."

 

https://www.therecord.com/news-story/7659564-released-from-afghanistan-joshua-boyle-says-breslau-was-on-his-mind/

 

He says, “I was in Afghanistan helping the most neglected minority group in the world, those ordinary villagers who live deep inside Taliban-controlled Afghanistan."

 

https://globalnews.ca/news/3803831/joshua-boyle-freedom-combination-elation-depression/

 

He once described himself as a "pacifist Mennonite hippy-child." He attended a Mennonite college, which are known for encouraging students to work for peace and justice.

 

https://web.archive.org/web/20170911072446/https://medium.com/@ohgodscrewthis/the-sad-strange-story-of-the-taliban-s-canadian-hostage-24d59b7f1a37

[MercyA]

Yes, she was the brother of Omar Kadhr.  

 

If I was related to him, I'd be pretty disinclined to get on an American plane as well - talk about abuse of all your rights as an accused person, not to mention a citizen and minor.

 

That being said - the Kadhr family parents were involved in fundamentalist/insurgent activities, and were involved in that social circle.  So that does seem to raise the question of whether that was something the husband in this family was involved in.  

 

From https://web.archive.org/web/20170911072446/https://medium.com/@ohgodscrewthis/the-sad-strange-story-of-the-taliban-s-canadian-hostage-24d59b7f1a37:

 

Joshua was dedicated to treating people as people, from an academic and educational standpoint, but he also took a more practical approach to the same problem. He was an activist, and he cared deeply about justice. That’s how he got involved with the Khadr family.

 

The short version of the Khadr story goes something like this: Ahmed Khadr was an Egyptian-Canadian who had close ties to Osama bin Laden, and who was repeatedly accused of terrorism himself, although these claims were never conclusively proven. He was killed in Pakistan in 2003.

 

A year earlier, Ahmed’s 15 year old son Omar was badly wounded and captured by American troops in Afghanistan. Omar was accused of throwing a grenade that killed an American soldier. At worst, Omar was a child soldier. At best, he was an innocent child caught up in a horrible situation. Instead of treating Omar as a victim, he was held in Guantanamo Bay for a decade. During his imprisonment, he was tortured, threatened with rape, and denied medical treatment.

 

The government of Canada refused to help Omar, and many Canadians despised the Khadr family, with some justification. Joshua felt differently. He believed that everyone, no matter how serious their crimes, deserved justice and fair treatment, and he decided to do something about it. Joshua volunteered to act as a spokesman for the Khadr family, in the hopes that they would be able to see Omar released, or at least given a fair trial.

 

It was during this time that Joshua first became close to Zaynab Khadr, Omar’s eldest sister. In fact, Joshua told me that he and Zaynab worked together on Omar’s case, but they only really bonded at an anti-abortion rally on Parliament Hill. For Joshua, a devout Christian, it was an area of common ground with Zaynab, a devout Muslim.

 

[...]

 

However unusual their relationship was, Joshua and Zaynab ended up getting married. Their union made the front page of the Toronto Star, but it was plagued by outside pressure. Bullets were fired at his family home, her family originally suspected that he was working for Canadian intelligence services, and a listening device was found in his car. Joshua even said that his marriage and advocacy were probably hurting his father’s career in the federal judiciary.

 

There were bright spots, too. Joshua introduced Safia, Zaynab’s daughter from an earlier marriage, to the cult TV show Firefly, and she quickly became a huge fan.

 

Eventually their marriage ended.

Edited October 18, 2017 by MercyA

[MercyA]

The husband's ex-wife is related to a Guantanamo bay detainee. He also stayed with Osama Bin Laden in the past (or stayed with Osama's family). There are things that no one is explaining clearly. They called all of it a "coincidence". That is the reason the guy would not get on an American plane - he claims that something might happen to him if he does.

 

Please see my post above. Boyle became involved with the family of a detainee because the detainee was imprisoned while he was still a child, and Boyle wanted to help. I find that admirable.

 

As far as the plane goes:  

 

"Boyle is also refuting reports that he refused to get on a U.S. military jet to leave Pakistan. 'Actually I just got off the phone with my father and he’s got the Canadian government booking airline tickets for the whole family, we’re going home!†…somehow gets twisted into 'Boyle is refusing to accept U.S. plane, what does this really mean,' he wrote."

 

https://globalnews.ca/news/3803831/joshua-boyle-freedom-combination-elation-depression/

Edited October 18, 2017 by MercyA

[Janeway]

I don't find the kid so odd, because it's unlikely they had access to birth control.

 

I am so sad for them and her in particular.  I can't imagine living and being a new mom in that kind of situation.  I read this morning that she went to the hospital this morning. I'm wondering if it was psychiatric reasons.

 

I do find their reasons for being there suspicious.  However, I have known a lot of idealistic young people who don't have a sense of danger/caution.

I found it odd that they had access to having sex. I mean..where were they kept captive at that they had access to doing that on a regular basis and having children like that? 

[Bluegoat]

From https://web.archive.org/web/20170911072446/https://medium.com/@ohgodscrewthis/the-sad-strange-story-of-the-taliban-s-canadian-hostage-24d59b7f1a37:

 

Joshua was dedicated to treating people as people, from an academic and educational standpoint, but he also took a more practical approach to the same problem. He was an activist, and he cared deeply about justice. That’s how he got involved with the Khadr family.

 

The short version of the Khadr story goes something like this: Ahmed Khadr was an Egyptian-Canadian who had close ties to Osama bin Laden, and who was repeatedly accused of terrorism himself, although these claims were never conclusively proven. He was killed in Pakistan in 2003.

 

A year earlier, Ahmed’s 15 year old son Omar was badly wounded and captured by American troops in Afghanistan. Omar was accused of throwing a grenade that killed an American soldier. At worst, Omar was a child soldier. At best, he was an innocent child caught up in a horrible situation. Instead of treating Omar as a victim, he was held in Guantanamo Bay for a decade. During his imprisonment, he was tortured, threatened with rape, and denied medical treatment.

 

The government of Canada refused to help Omar, and many Canadians despised the Khadr family, with some justification. Joshua felt differently. He believed that everyone, no matter how serious their crimes, deserved justice and fair treatment, and he decided to do something about it. Joshua volunteered to act as a spokesman for the Khadr family, in the hopes that they would be able to see Omar released, or at least given a fair trial.

 

It was during this time that Joshua first became close to Zaynab Khadr, Omar’s eldest sister. In fact, Joshua told me that he and Zaynab worked together on Omar’s case, but they only really bonded at an anti-abortion rally on Parliament Hill. For Joshua, a devout Christian, it was an area of common ground with Zaynab, a devout Muslim.

 

[...]

 

However unusual their relationship was, Joshua and Zaynab ended up getting married. Their union made the front page of the Toronto Star, but it was plagued by outside pressure. Bullets were fired at his family home, her family originally suspected that he was working for Canadian intelligence services, and a listening device was found in his car. Joshua even said that his marriage and advocacy were probably hurting his father’s career in the federal judiciary.

 

There were bright spots, too. Joshua introduced Safia, Zaynab’s daughter from an earlier marriage, to the cult TV show Firefly, and she quickly became a huge fan.

 

Eventually their marriage ended.

 

All of which could be entirely true, or he could be a secret terrorist, or he could be a spy on terrorists.  The latter maybe is less likely than the other two.

 

But it's not, I think, unreasonable to think that there were some odd choices being made along the way by this man, or wonder if there is more to it than meets the eye - there are enough little oddities and strange choices and connections to raise an eyebrow.

[Janeway]

From https://web.archive.org/web/20170911072446/https://medium.com/@ohgodscrewthis/the-sad-strange-story-of-the-taliban-s-canadian-hostage-24d59b7f1a37:

 

Joshua was dedicated to treating people as people, from an academic and educational standpoint, but he also took a more practical approach to the same problem. He was an activist, and he cared deeply about justice. That’s how he got involved with the Khadr family.

 

The short version of the Khadr story goes something like this: Ahmed Khadr was an Egyptian-Canadian who had close ties to Osama bin Laden, and who was repeatedly accused of terrorism himself, although these claims were never conclusively proven. He was killed in Pakistan in 2003.

 

A year earlier, Ahmed’s 15 year old son Omar was badly wounded and captured by American troops in Afghanistan. Omar was accused of throwing a grenade that killed an American soldier. At worst, Omar was a child soldier. At best, he was an innocent child caught up in a horrible situation. Instead of treating Omar as a victim, he was held in Guantanamo Bay for a decade. During his imprisonment, he was tortured, threatened with rape, and denied medical treatment.

 

The government of Canada refused to help Omar, and many Canadians despised the Khadr family, with some justification. Joshua felt differently. He believed that everyone, no matter how serious their crimes, deserved justice and fair treatment, and he decided to do something about it. Joshua volunteered to act as a spokesman for the Khadr family, in the hopes that they would be able to see Omar released, or at least given a fair trial.

 

It was during this time that Joshua first became close to Zaynab Khadr, Omar’s eldest sister. In fact, Joshua told me that he and Zaynab worked together on Omar’s case, but they only really bonded at an anti-abortion rally on Parliament Hill. For Joshua, a devout Christian, it was an area of common ground with Zaynab, a devout Muslim.

 

[...]

 

However unusual their relationship was, Joshua and Zaynab ended up getting married. Their union made the front page of the Toronto Star, but it was plagued by outside pressure. Bullets were fired at his family home, her family originally suspected that he was working for Canadian intelligence services, and a listening device was found in his car. Joshua even said that his marriage and advocacy were probably hurting his father’s career in the federal judiciary.

 

There were bright spots, too. Joshua introduced Safia, Zaynab’s daughter from an earlier marriage, to the cult TV show Firefly, and she quickly became a huge fan.

 

Eventually their marriage ended.

That story seems slanted with no reliable sources. Perhaps everything happened like that. But I have a hard time believing the slant to the story of the 15 yr old. 

[Bluegoat]

I found it odd that they had access to having sex. I mean..where were they kept captive at that they had access to doing that on a regular basis and having children like that? 

 

I don't quite see why this would be odd.  I expect they were kept together in a normal sort of house or room much of the time.

[Bluegoat]

That story seems slanted with no reliable sources. Perhaps everything happened like that. But I have a hard time believing the slant to the story of the 15 yr old. 

 

Why?

 

It's a pretty well documented case.

[MercyA]

I found it odd that they had access to having sex. I mean..where were they kept captive at that they had access to doing that on a regular basis and having children like that? 

 

They were all kept in the same room:

 

Boyle said, “The truth is, though I recognize that we are blessed to have been able to survive that ordeal…it’s a mystery to me how it happened,†he said. “I think it’s probably an issue that each of us forced ourselves to be as sane, compassionate and patient as we could…for the sake of the other four in the room, so it just reached a strange equilibrium by which we each survived by the efforts, not of ourselves, but of the other four in the room.â€

 

https://globalnews.ca/news/3803831/joshua-boyle-freedom-combination-elation-depression/

[MercyA]

But it's not, I think, unreasonable to think that there were some odd choices being made along the way by this man, or wonder if there is more to it than meets the eye - there are enough little oddities and strange choices and connections to raise an eyebrow.

 

I know people who, like Boyle, attended a Mennonite college. They are passionate. They are idealistic. They are not always practical. Maybe that's part of the reason all of this seems a little less odd to me.  

Edited October 18, 2017 by MercyA

[freesia]

I found it odd that they had access to having sex. I mean..where were they kept captive at that they had access to doing that on a regular basis and having children like that? 

 

I would imagine they had a room with a bed, maybe in a house.

[3 ladybugs]

What I don't get is how her cycles were even remotely normal with the stress of being held captive. I can understand maybe having a child (single pregnancy) in captivity but multiple children? 

 

I once went on a business trip to San Francisco for 3 weeks. I was newly married at the time and DH and I were trying to have our first. On the cab ride from the airport the cabby told me that I was going to the area (marina district) that was landfill and essentially Jello if there was ever another earthquake. It scared the *** out of me! I was due for my period in the first week but I didn't get my period till on my flight back home after 3 weeks! Stress manipulates one's cycle. So how was she able to have so many children in captivity? Wasn't she under extreme stress? I would be if I were in jail.

 

I also don't get being that pregnant and doing humanitarian work or hiking or whatever. I mean that is pretty far along to do be doing anything remotely like that. 

[Bluegoat]

I know people who, like Boyle, attended a Mennonite college. They are passionate. They are idealistic. They are not always practical. Maybe that's part of the reason all of this seems a little less odd to me.  

 

I think that's quite plausible.  ETA - but it was stupid to do it the way he did, IMO.  Ideaistic is great, not so you get others hurt though.  And I have doubts about how helpful a guy and his pregnant wife really would be too.

 

I guess what I'm saying is, if I was the back room guy reading all the reports, I might be inclined to keep an eye on these people.

Edited October 18, 2017 by Bluegoat

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

I'm out running errands,but I wanted say thanks for the discussion. this is why I asked here. I know some of you would have different kinds of info than what I was seeing in the mainstream press.

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

I'm out running errands,but I wanted say thanks for the discussion. this is why I asked here. I know some of you would have different kinds of info than what I was seeing in the mainstream press.

[freesia]

Stress does nothing to my cycles.  I've been under tremendous stress and still been crazy regular. 

 

I actually think it would be more abnormal for a married couple, kept together in captivity, to not have children.  teA can be very stress relieving and, as Boyle said, they had a lot of time on their hands.

[wonderchica]

I found it odd that they had access to having sex. I mean..where were they kept captive at that they had access to doing that on a regular basis and having children like that?

In an empty room? A prison cell? A house? A cave? You don't really "need" anything to have sex. I find it odd that they are saying they deliberately conceived, and the reasons why. I wouldn't have been surprised if it just happened unplanned- 5 years is a long time without birth control, especially in a high stress situation.

[mathnerd]

Please see my post above. Boyle became involved with the family of a detainee because the detainee was imprisoned while he was still a child, and Boyle wanted to help. I find that admirable.

 

As far as the plane goes:  

 

"Boyle is also refuting reports that he refused to get on a U.S. military jet to leave Pakistan. 'Actually I just got off the phone with my father and he’s got the Canadian government booking airline tickets for the whole family, we’re going home!†…somehow gets twisted into 'Boyle is refusing to accept U.S. plane, what does this really mean,' he wrote."

 

https://globalnews.ca/news/3803831/joshua-boyle-freedom-combination-elation-depression/

 

 

We can take the story given by Boyle at face value - but, because of Khadr, Osama and Taliban, I feel that I am being naive if I did not question the many gaps in his story. At this point, it is just his word that is out in the press. I also got the feeling that some things did not fit well into his storyline when I read the excerpts of the email he sent to the press - he seemed very healthy and mentally fit for a captive, he seems to have used his first chance in the spotlight to talk about his political agenda instead of sticking to his captivity and release, his kids seem very healthy and not malnourished, the Haqqani group immediately disputed the claim that his wife was raped or forced to abort their child. 

And why on earth would a man take his American wife into Taliban territory when there is so much going on between America and the Taliban? Seems very far fetched even for an admirable, idealistic young man who wants to help the needy.

Edited October 18, 2017 by mathnerd

[wonderchica]

We can take the story given by Boyle at face value - but, because of Khadr, Osama and Taliban, I feel that I am being naive if I did not question the many gaps in his story. At this point, it is just his word that is out in the press. I also got the feeling that some things did not fit well into his storyline when I read the excerpts of the email he sent to the press - he seemed very healthy and mentally fit for a captive, he seems to have used his first chance in the spotlight to talk about his political agenda instead of sticking to his captivity and release, his kids seem very healthy and not malnourished, the Haqqani group immediately disputed the claim that his wife was raped or forced to abort their child.

And why on earth would a man take his American wife into Taliban territory when there is so much going on between America and the Taliban? Seems very far fetched even for an admirable, idealistic young man who wants to help the needy.

Well, of course they would deny rape and murder. I wouldn't hang my hat on their denial. I also read that one of the children needed medical treatment? I do find the Dad's response/reaction to everything very interesting. It's a strange case, to be sure.

[6packofun]

They "travelled to the Taliban-held region with hopes to do some kind of unofficial humanitarian work."

 

https://www.therecord.com/news-story/7659564-released-from-afghanistan-joshua-boyle-says-breslau-was-on-his-mind/

 

He says, “I was in Afghanistan helping the most neglected minority group in the world, those ordinary villagers who live deep inside Taliban-controlled Afghanistan."

 

https://globalnews.ca/news/3803831/joshua-boyle-freedom-combination-elation-depression/

 

He once described himself as a "pacifist Mennonite hippy-child." He attended a Mennonite college, which are known for encouraging students to work for peace and justice.

 

https://web.archive.org/web/20170911072446/https://medium.com/@ohgodscrewthis/the-sad-strange-story-of-the-taliban-s-canadian-hostage-24d59b7f1a37

 

Thank you for more context!

[itsheresomewhere]

I think that the story that they just went hiking when they were kidnapped is far fetched. She was 7 mo pregnant, and they were in known Al Qida (sp?) area where no NGOs were operating because of the danger to relief workers. The guy says that he was "determined" to help the people. So he brings in a preganant, American, very white, wife?

 

I agree. I find it suspicious he is all over doing interviews and such now. It screams I want a movie/book/take this to the bank deal.

[Ravin]

The DH was not willing to fly aboard aircraft with a U.S. Flag. He was afraid that he would end up in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.  Someone who had done nothing wrong probably would not have that fear?

 

He is not a U.S. citizen. And his connection was to his ex-BIL who was a fifteen year old kid when captured. In the current political climate there are many who are not U.S. citizens who have had unpleasant encounters with U.S. border patrol while going about normal and lawful business--including Canadians. Given that he was just freed, it's perfectly reasonable to not want to risk being imprisoned by someone else. When it comes to it, there are plenty of Americans who are suspicious of our own government. Canadians are free to be just as suspicious.

[Ravin]

I heard or read somewhere in the past week that in addition to having her first child murdered, she had been repeatedly raped by the captors.  It is possible that not all the children are her husband's?

 

They do look like him, and do not look likely to be of part South-Asian paternity, for whatever that's worth.

[mathnerd]

Well, of course they would deny rape and murder. I wouldn't hang my hat on their denial. I also read that one of the children needed medical treatment? I do find the Dad's response/reaction to everything very interesting. It's a strange case, to be sure.

I specifically mentioned the denial because, rape and murder of americans is not something a terrorist group in Afghanistan which has affiliations to Al-quaeda would deny if it had happened. If such an organization denies the rape, then, it did not happen. There are terrorist organizations in parts of the world that would wear such things like badges of honor (says a person who has had the experience of living in such parts of the world in her youth - in a government contractor job, for more context).