Accelerated High School & needed to belong somewhere

[MamaSprout]

Don't quote me, please. I will probably delete parts of this.

 

We explored a gifted boarding school option yesterday, and it is clear that it won't realistically be a good fit for dd. In conversations with her, she seems to want to belong to something (ie, not a homeschooler), although there's nothing specific about homeschooling she doesn't like.

 

If I can put something on the horizon for her for an early start in high school next year, or find a way for her to belong to something. I think that might work. We have no private schools, our district high school is a non-option, the neighboring district would be marginally better. AP tests not available locally (maybe 3 county-wide).

 

Options-

 

Online High Schools. I've explored this, and setting aside the (large) issue of cost, schools like Stanford OHS seem to be drinking from the firehouse, while university high schools are a complete mixed bag with the usual assortment of insipid English and history options.

 

Am I overlooking a middle of the road option for online high schools? Accreditation is meaningless to us, but dd seems to want to be on a path to something she can finish.

 

 

Early College. Currently she is interested in architecture as a career. We have a local middle-of-the-road 4 year university with a large dual-credit population (that's why so few local AP options). No programs related to architecture, and I think it's too early to specialize that way.

 

 

 

Edited October 18, 2017 by MamaSprout

[shawthorne44]

I'd go for early college.   I think she'll find her tribe there.  

[regentrude]

These are not your only options. Why not have her remain homeschooled and take college classes as a high schooler? That's what we did with DD. She remained homeschooled, took 32 credits at the local 4 year university starting at age 14, and went to a selective college at age 17 . She found a "tribe" among the college seniors when she was a high school student at our local uni, and she found a tribe when she arrived at her actual college.

Edited October 18, 2017 by regentrude

[EKS]

How old is your daughter?

 

Several years ago someone gave me some advice that at the time I blew off, but now think is right on.  It is this:  When it comes to a school setting, place them where they fit best socially.  The reason is that it is almost impossible to achieve a proper academic placement in a K-12 school, or even a CC.   

 

My 15yo son went to a private school for two years (after homeschooling K-4).  He skipped 5th on entry and then skipped 7th.  He had a 3 year acceleration in math (so Algebra I that first year).  Even the math acceleration was not enough because the school didn't have honors math courses, so he ended up doing honors geometry as an independent study that next year.  Socially it was a problem, though I've never figured out if it was because my son was younger or because the field was small (it was a tiny school).  

 

So we homeschooled for two years after his 8th grade year there.  He is now at the local high school with age mates.  The only proper academic placements are AP Calc BC and AP Econ.  He grumbles every day about how meaningless (his word) what he's learning is.  But he's not interested in doing the busywork that would be required if he were to be in all AP courses. 

 

Academically, right now (or even last year in 9th) he'd be better placed at a middle of the road four year college.  A tippy top school would not be a good placement--though three years from now it probably would.

 

But he has a small group of friends at the high school, one in particular, and I'm going to be happy with that.

 

An online high school, at least a typical one (so I'm not sure about Stanford OHS), is not going to give her a real social experience, though she will be able to say "I go to X school."

 

You're right to be concerned about the social effects of early college.  We have talked about early college here many, many times and it always comes back to it could be really good, but it could be awful, and you won't know until you try.  Which is scary.

[Pawz4me]

DS18 attended an early college high school on the campus of our CC (no four year university programs were available in our area). It was a very good experience for him overall. I can't say that he was challenged very much academically, but he's 2e and benefited hugely from the social opportunities. Our objective was always to do what was best for out boys at that point in their lives. Sure we thought about/planned for a future path, but we always gave much more weight to what was best for them at whatever current stage they were in. And for him that was the best high school option.

Edited October 18, 2017 by Pawz4me

[8filltheheart]

In terms of your question about middle of the road UG and grad school placement, I will be able to share in the spring my ds's results. Currently, I am not the slightest bit concerned about his grad school options. He is attending an avg public university majoring in physics and math and is applying to grad schools for physics.

 

I not concerned (and why his scenario differs significantly from what you are considering) because he has been active in UG research since freshman yr (meaningful research since he graduated from high school having already completed 5 core in-major courses), has taken several grad level courses, scored extremely high on the physics GRE, had 2 REUs at top universities, has maintained a 4.0, and has great LOR.

 

The difference is significant bc he didn't enter college at a freshman level. He DE for math and physics. He did high school summer camps like SSP. He volunteered for a prof at his DE university. When he entered college he already had research experience and the educational background to participate in research. He currently works right alongside the grad students and post-doc and participates in their meetings with the overseeing prof, etc. He doesn't work for a grad student. He works for his mentoring professor.

 

This path worked exceedingly well for him (and garnered him a full-ride scholarship which really mattered for our family.)

 

I suggest looking to see if their might be more options than you think.

[quark]

It would help to know her age-based grade.

 

If she really does not want to be known as a homeschooler, I would explore either DE, early college, or Stanford OHS. Have you looked into the Caroline Bradley scholarship? If she qualifies, she could enroll in the Stanford OHS part time option (if full time is too much). All the kids I know doing OHS feel a sense of community although it is online. My local OHS community has only good things to say about the program. If she takes OHS part time, she will be able to pick and choose 1-3 other delight-directed classes and still have a rigorous course load plus time to follow other passions.

 

Can she DE 3-4 classes a semester or 2-3 classes a quarter at middle of the road university?

 

I am also a little confused...and perhaps your siggy is not updated? If she is working on geometry, it is still a while before she hits calculus...a lot can change in the couple of years it will take for her to get to calculus won't it? Maybe I misunderstood.

 

We used to live in a rural area like the one you describe. We moved in order for kiddo to DE at a better community college after kiddo was ready for calculus. Eventually, kiddo DE-ed at the state flagship where now enrolled full time. Mine is 15, a college freshman, and is finding a tribe...albeit very slowly. No one cares about age at the math department. Kiddo can finally "talk math" all the time with people who actually care and get it. This really is the best fit for *this* child. I am a big believer in gut feel and I know in my gut that my teen would have withered with any other option. What does your gut say?

[MamaSprout]

Thanks all... we're exploring this because she's doing high school classes now as a middle schooler, and basically wants to be a high schooler next year. Our "best option" was a residential school that turned out to not be a good fit up close. So I'm trying to have a sketchy plan so I don't eliminate any of our limited options over the next few years.

 

I guess it's not about homeschool. She has friends, gets along with lots of kinds of people, but still feels isolated. Some how, in  her mind she'd be normal if she was doing fractions.

Edited October 18, 2017 by MamaSprout

[Dmmetler]

I could have written this almost exactly a year ago except it was a specialty gifted school (http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/556064-would-you-move-the-whole-family-for-the-needs-of-one-child/page-5?hl=%2Bwould+%2Byou+%2Bmove&do=findComment&comment=7280528)

 

A year later, DD is pretty happy as a concurrent college student, doing stuff with homeschoolers close to her age, competiting on a travel cheer team where she gets to spend hours almost every afternoon/evening both with the 10 girls on her team, and with the kids from the other junior and senior teams and practically every high school and middle school team in town (because most of them train here). Does she have the "tribe" she thought the GT school would give her? Not really. Is she learning, thriving, and enjoying herself? Yes. And for now, at age 12, that's enough.

[regentrude]

Thanks all... we're exploring this because she's doing high school classes now as a middle schooler, and basically wants to be a high schooler next year. Our "best option" was a residential option that turned out to not be a good option up close. So I'm trying to have a sketchy plan so I don't eliminate any of our limited options over the next few years.

 

I guess it's not about homeschool. She has friends, gets along with lots of kinds of people, but still feels isolated. Some how, in  her mind she'd be normal if she was doing fractions.

 

She may meet peers once she starts taking college classes.

When DD was 14, her best friends were two students she met in her English class; both were 22 or 23 years old and college (super)seniors.

[Donna]

I don't have time tonight to read all the replies but rather than early college, you might look into dual enrollment in college as a high schooler. Not sure where you live but in some places the costs of the courses, as a high schooler, are free or significantly reduced (here it is 65% less). It is more cost effective to not graduate early and simply take college classes...dd could have her associates degree (supposing she chose to follow a degree path or have over 36 credits) before graduating high school.

[Dmmetler]

Oh, and on that "not wanting to be a homeschooler" thing, DD definitely identifies right now as a student at X college, who also homeschools, not the other way around. Having the "real school" has helped immensely in this "need my place in the world" stage.

[pinewarbler]

What is DE university? Dual enrollment high school with uni?

Edited October 20, 2017 by pinewarbler

[MamaSprout]

What is DE university? Dual enrollment high school with uni?

 

Yes.

 

My older kiddos did this extensively, and it was a mixed bag. I'm not sure how it will work with this kiddo, but it looks to be our best option for her, too.

[MamaSprout]

DE is off the table for next year, probably for the next two actually. Even with the SAT score. They say she's still too young. Back to the drawing board.

[MamaSprout]

It all sounds good, but there really are no options- like orchestra -closer than an hour away. We're in NUMATS territory, which doesn't really offer anything useful to us. Our state gifted organization is a set of broken links on a web page.

 

Dd is convinced she's a fraud and really should be in public middle school because she actually needs to memorize vocabulary for her Latin Alive quizzes. She doesn't want to work on anything because even with homeschool, everything comes easily. I am very tired.

Edited November 14, 2017 by MamaSprout

[snowbeltmom]

It all sounds good, but there really are no options- like orchestra -closer than an hour away. We're in NUMATS territory, which doesn't really offer anything useful to us. Our state gifted organization is a set of broken links on a web page.

 

Dd is convinced she's a fraud and really should be in public middle school because she actually needs to memorize vocabulary for her Latin Alive quizzes. She doesn't want to work on anything because even with homeschool, everything comes easily. I am very tired.

 

We are in NUMATS territory, too.  I just wanted to make sure that you know that you can still participate in CTY and TIP even though you are not in their territories.  Nothing that NUMATS offers ever interested my kids, but they all have enjoyed offerings at CTY.

 

Good luck.

 

[MamaSprout]

I'll have her look at the CTY offerings. I like the idea of finding her talented teachers, but our last go at an online class was a bust, and we very seriously lack options locally (like within 3 hours for academics).

 

She's in music and sports, although maybe it's time we made some changes there. She said when she's bored she kind of zones out. She's just been kind of bumpy this fall... a little tween angst in full swing.

 

 

 

 

 

[MamaSprout]

Is it a bad idea to place an advanced kiddo in a local public high school?

 

Starting high school wouldn't be a huge jump grade-wise, but she'd be jumping into junior-level classes. High school is willing to play as long as she doesn't try to count the high school classes she's done at home as part of her GPA. The school is set up on a standard block schedule (4 classes a semester). The school does have something of a culture of apathy. No honors classes. You do dual enrollment for those (at the school that said dd is still too young).

 

It is across the street from where I work. She has a handful of friends there, but spread out over several grades/ buildings. We have another school she could cross-district too, but she's had bullying issues with some of the kids from there at her sports practice.

 

I'm not crazy about putting her in public school, but I feel like we really need to explore all of the options.

[Starr]

I think part of this might just be her age. Things could work themselves out during the year. I don't see any advantage of the high schools you describe.  :grouphug:

[katilac]

 

Dd is convinced she's a fraud and really should be in public middle school because she actually needs to memorize vocabulary for her Latin Alive quizzes. She doesn't want to work on anything because even with homeschool, everything comes easily. 

 

Enroll her in Lukeoin, Latin will probably stop being easy, lol. 

 

Eh, middle school, everything sucks and you don't fit in, I don't think it matters where you are if you are that angsty kind of tween. It's a tough age. And tons of people, even adults, don't feel "normal." That can't be the goal, that's what I tell my kids. 

 

Yes, belonging to something other than the homeschool community might be a big plus for her, but that could be many things. 

I'll agree with Heigh Ho that an hour away is normal for lots of activities. We are not the least bit rural, but city traffic and coming in from the 'burbs makes up for that. We have to allow an hour each way to get dd to DE at the university, four days a week this semester. We drive 30-40 minutes for a weekly social activity. That's always been a minimum for most activities, because my kids aren't sporty and it doesn't help that we have a playground down the street, lol. Around here, it's very normal for people to drive nearly an hour to get to high school and back again (lots of private schools), and driving 45 minutes or an hour to activities is just not seen as a big deal, particularly for high schoolers. If driving an hour to activities helps solve the problem, that's an easy fix, imo.  

 

I say that as a person who does not like to drive. You do get used to it. 

 

Also agree that there's no reason for homeschooling to all come easily to her. If it does, change what she's doing. And truthfully, when my kids got too much with the drama (I'm too smart, I don't fit in! No, wait, I have to study, I'm stupid!), I would shut it down at some point. If you think you're too smart, I promise you that there are many people in the world smarter than you. If you think you're stupid because you have to study, I don't agree, but oh well, you have to do the work either way. If you think that you don't fit in, I empathize, but lots of people feel that way, and you just have to keep chugging along and finding the good. I find that it's very important to keep them busy AND get them out of the house frequently; get them out of their heads. 

 

Back to practicalities, I do think lots of kids can get a social vibe from some online classes, particularly ones like Lukeion, WTM, AoPS,    They aren't cookie cutter classes, and would likely challenge her even if they didn't fill a social need. Neither of mine cared for online classes, but both of them did spend a lot of time in online communities. If you have a special interest, that can be a great way to engage. 

 

I would not do a high school with an apathetic vibe and no honors classes. I don't get that at all - we have both uni and CC dual enrollment here, plus some dual enrollment that's actually on high school grounds, but that doesn't keep the public schools from also having honors and advanced classes. And it's definitely not an affluent district. Weird. 

 

Plus, I do think high school can be tough on younger kids, particularly those that have a younger look or demeanor. And if she's had bullying issues with some kids already, no way. Or if she does succeed socially, are you prepared for her to also get a completely different kind of education at a younger age than usual? Because she will see and hear a lot. High school is worse for this than college, imo. 

 

Early college: both of my kids did dual enrollment. It was excellent for getting them out of the house, having them deal with professors on their own, and so on. If it's not where she wants to "go to college" then you can just consider those classes high school. 

 

I will say that my youngest was pretty freaked out at first about guys (strangers) walking up to ask her out. We had discussed talking to teachers but not to random guys trying to hit you up, so she was unprepared, lol. We considered printing a t-shirt, "I'm 16 and waiting for my mom!" Oldest looked 12 at 16, she didn't have that problem  :laugh:

 

So that can be something to be aware of for dual enrollment, like some other social dangers. It's one reason I'm not wild about early college for most kids, if you mean going away to college. You can't shelter them from everything, but I wanted mine to be a bit older before they were actually living on campus. Particularly if one of the reasons for wanting to go away to college was to fit in, kwim? 

 

I really want to emphasize that it's possible part of it is just her age, and possible that part of it is her personality. My youngest will get along happily with almost any group, my oldest much less so. I would be looking at options like online classes, driving to activities, and waiting for her to get older. 

[eternalsummer]

She's not going to like the high school, esp with no honors classes.

 

DD12, who has been homeschooled except for a stint in a Waldorf charter (which does not encourage academics in any way), recently became morose because she feels like she's never good at anything - or I should say, never the best at anything.  She's taking Lukeion Latin and is doing AoPS Pre-A; she gets very good grades in Latin (98-99% every week) but is never the absolute top student, and while she does well in math, it is work for the brain.  I did this because I was always the best at everything in school and was not challenged; I thought she needed the challenge.

 

She does need it, but I think she also needs at least some place where she can shine.  I finally told her that if she were in the local middle, or taking normal online classes with kids her age (or if she'd waited to take Latin with Lukeion in 9th, maybe, instead of 7th), she would almost certainly be the top math student, top Latin student, top language student.  I am not sure she believes it.

 

 

[MamaSprout]

I should mention that I am a good drama-shutter-downer (are those words?) this last kid is just so darn good at it.

 

She nixed Lukieon and the end of last year after a trial class. She is doing two languages, which I think is not that uncommon in middle school pretty much anywhere but the US.

 

She does need some hard classes. It's always been a balance between creative time and staying busy. Drama days are usually stay at home days.

 

I need her to stop comparing herself to her middle school teammates. I think between the bullying and the public school attitudes, it's probably time to switch around some activities. And yeah, we are totally spoiled in being no more than 15 minutes to practically everything. I did find a small ensemble for her locally. And we might switch teachers for her other instrument. We knew when we started that we were at the top of that teacher's level.

 

So I'll pull public school off the table. DH won't like that very much, but other than maybe as one class, I think it would be a bad idea. We'll definitely be driving for sports. Thanks for the feedback. Sometimes a girl needs to talk these things out.

Edited November 16, 2017 by MamaSprout

[pinewarbler]

I live in a city that has most options for enrichment, and it takes minimum 50 minutes each way to get to them (either by subway or car). If I had to drive to the next city for the perfect option, I would probably give in and do it.

 

We did the local high school, even thought other speciality high schools were an option. The difference is that this one has very high academics, an award winning music program, and an enriched math stream (sadly, no AP which is less common here). Also has many teachers with MA's or PhD's. Current math teacher is from Russia (and thinks he's still there), teaches it old school and is basically teaching it as a radically accelerated class... :hurray:  School is also in a neighbourhood where many of the schools promote social justice, so there are very interesting clubs as well. I love the peer leadership program the school has and the many clubs that offer something for everyone. I always went to see the clubs at the high school open houses and grilled the students running them... it was an excellent way to assess the school. Was not impressed by many other high schools we visited. Trust your gut.

 

I agree with an earlier poster that middle school age is tricky. We actually changed our eldest's options radically at that age just to shake things up and see if something stuck. She went into a gifted stream which wasn't enough acceleration, but that one year doing something completely different (and in a different way) was all she needed. Don't assume that this funk will last, but consider how to mitigate it.

 

Re: music teacher, at that age DD continued with the Suzuki classical program, but in the summer took fiddle music from a different teacher. She loved it, but also had a new appreciation for her incredible Suzuki teacher. I had such crummy music teachers when I was little and wished not that my parents had considered looking for new ones periodically.