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2nd grader struggling with reading (x posted in learning challenges)


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#1 ktgrok

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 11:31 AM

So my 2nd grader is 7, going to be 8 in Feb. She's had a few speech issues which we are working on, and needs to be evaluated again, as she goes back and forth between being far enough behind to qualify for help and not. S/th/f issues, and she still says "walkeded" instead of walked and "winded" instead of won, although it is getting better. She was late to learn her pronouns...she used to say him instead of he, etc but doesn't anymore. She continues to make progress, but just behind, if that makes sense. the felt it was developmental because she is developing steadily, just later than normal.

Reading seems to be the same. She finished AAR1, and is halfway through Dancing Bears A but lacks some fluency, although I'm seeing a big improvement lately. But...she still is definitely behind other kids her age. Fine, no big deal I figured. My oldest was a late reader and blossomed around 8-9 years old.


But.. today she was near tears telling me that all the kids in her Faith Formation class at church (new name for CCD classes in Catholic Church) can read so much better than her, and they read their assignments and she can't. Ugh.


So....she is motivated to work on this. We are going to try a two week reading "boot camp" of working on lessons 3 times a day (and probably cutting back on math during this time..math is super easy for her anyway). We will do both Dancing Bears and Mindplay (they use different approaches..more of a spell to read approach in Mind Play). She loves Dancing Bears and is definitely making progress with it.


Is this enough for now, and see what happens? Or should I go ahead and look into evaluations? I THINK maybe the local University does them, but not sure.


Thoughts? My heart hurts for her.


Oh, and no real other signs of issues....she does still get b/d mixed up but not as much as she used to. Visual tracking was checked on the mind play thing and she got perfect scores. She can sound out well but struggles with fluency, if that makes sense.

Edited by ktgrok, 11 October 2017 - 11:52 AM.


#2 ElizabethB

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 12:09 PM

I would check her phonemic awareness:

 

https://www.spelfabe...awareness-test/

 

If that is ok, go through my syllables lessons quickly and then do my fluency nonsense word drills daily to build up fluency.  If not, you need to fix phonemic awareness first but you could work on some syllables in the interim.

 

http://www.thephonic...lesspellsu.html

 

Don Potter has some Blend Phonics fluency drills as well if you want something with real words.



#3 ktgrok

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 12:15 PM

I would check her phonemic awareness:

 

https://www.spelfabe...awareness-test/

 

If that is ok, go through my syllables lessons quickly and then do my fluency nonsense word drills daily to build up fluency.  If not, you need to fix phonemic awareness first but you could work on some syllables in the interim.

 

http://www.thephonic...lesspellsu.html

 

Don Potter has some Blend Phonics fluency drills as well if you want something with real words.

 

Her phonemic awareness is good now, but was also late. We worked through the first level of the logic of english to work on it, and that really helped. 

 

The nonsense word drills look very similar to what she is doing now in Dancing Bears. Except the Dancing bears ones are all real words although many are unusual...as in, I've never heard of them. We have fun looking those up, lol. But she's definitely sounding them out, not guessing. 

 

Sounds like drilling like we are doing is the right course, you'd say? Dancing bears will have a page of fluency drill, then a page where she has to read a sentence and circle the missing word, then maybe a story to read, then another fluency page, etc. Then a mastery page where she has to read a list of words in a certain amount of time, etc. 


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#4 ElizabethB

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 12:26 PM

Yes, drilling words is key to fluency, but also over learning the sounds, especially the two letter vowel teams, if those are not over learned. 

 

But, for being able to sound out anything, I would work through my syllables program, you can do it in 10 school days, and this shows the type of words you get to by the end of each lesson:

 

http://www.thephonic...essOverview.pdf

 

I have a color coded chart for over learning the two letter vowel teams on my syllables page.



#5 ktgrok

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 12:57 PM

Ok, did the phonological awareness test,a nd she did score just slightly lower than expected. She scored a 9, which was the last level of 1st grade. 2nd grade should score 10 or 11. 

 

I'm going to go check out the vowel teams now, I'm wondering if it is like the flashcards in dancing bears....right now she's doing combinations like ai, oi, ay, er, ar, etc. We drill the flash cards every lesson. 


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#6 ElizabethB

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 01:17 PM

They are color coded in a big chart. I teach them in pairs along with the rules for which are within the word and which are at the end. For example, I will have the student read the pairs ai/ay and I will mention that native English words don’t end in I, so ai within the word, ay at the end. They overlearn them with the color coding as an aid, then go to the black and white chart.

http://www.thephonic...eVowelChart.pdf

Edited by ElizabethB, 11 October 2017 - 01:18 PM.


#7 ktgrok

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 01:33 PM

And...an embarrassing quesiton. The vowel team ia on your chart...how do you pronounce that? Off the top of my head I can't think of a word with it!


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#8 ElizabethB

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 01:35 PM

The dancing bears book looks good but you won't get fast multi-syllable word progress with it.  The beauty of my syllables program for an older child is that it jump starts them with 2 and 3 syllable words, teaching syllable division rules and then working on already divided words in Webster, divided based on schwa accent pattern, which is helpful for struggling students.  2+ syllable words are harder for younger children than older children.  When you work at the syllable level, you can combine higher level learning with the basics.

 

For example, lesson 1 you learn divide between two syllables, syllables ending in a consonant are short, and then you can read words like hubcap, sonnet, and rabbit.  After lesson 2, divide before one vowel, syllables ending in a vowel are long, words like motor, biker, tomato.  Then, an exercise comparing and contrasting the two: dinner, diner; cotton, motor.  So, in two weeks if you did a lesson a day with it, she would have the skills to sound out anything, and you can then go back to Dancing Bears more intensely.  I would do one of my lessons and a lesson from Dancing Bears for your boot camp daily.

 

Starting in lesson 6, they get to Webster and the words are labeled "4th grade level words" and go up from there to "12th grade level words" by lesson 10. The word level is based on an analysis of the sentences that use those words.  It is very motivational for struggling students once they get to that point!


Edited by ElizabethB, 11 October 2017 - 01:36 PM.

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#9 ElizabethB

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 01:41 PM

And...an embarrassing quesiton. The vowel team ia on your chart...how do you pronounce that? Off the top of my head I can't think of a word with it!

Those are in red and lowercase will divide between, I teach that in lesson 3 of the syllables course.  It is really easy to use with the videos.

 

For example, pliable, ia will not make a sound, so it divides between the vowels.  In vowels that divide,

the vowel can either say long i as in pliable or reliant, but can say its Latin/romance sound of long e as in fiord.

 

In lesson 3, you learn how and when to divide between vowels and then sound out all these words:

 

radio cameo pioneer meow fiord pliable reliant truant casual manual continuous dual cryogenic myopic scientist diet quiet fluid ruin cereal fluent variety 


Edited by ElizabethB, 11 October 2017 - 01:41 PM.

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#10 ktgrok

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 02:06 PM

Ha! No wonder I couldn't think of how to say it together, you don't, lol! That makes me feel better. I've got a wicked head cold and am not using my brain very well today :)


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#11 Ottakee

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 05:48 PM

Check out the books I See Sam. You can Google for free PDF versions of the first 52 books. www.iseesam.com or www.3rsplus.com


Very very close to the Dancing Bears but these are great as they are fun stories to read. We used both programs together.

#12 ktgrok

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 08:40 PM

Mini update! So..I talked with her faith formation teacher and it turns out that most of the kids in her class are in third grade! No wonder they can read better than she can! I told her this when I picked her up and her face lit up. We are still going to address this, but at least she feels better now!

 


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#13 ktgrok

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Posted Today, 12:14 PM

This is a video of her reading, using Dancing Bears A. You can see how she still sounds out most words. She used to do that for ALL the words, but now can just quickly read some, and sound out others. So I am definitely seeing progress...just slow progress. 

 



#14 Ottakee

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Posted Today, 03:08 PM

I would suggest using a cursor with her. One way we did it was just a 3*5 card ABOVE the line she is reading. It cuts down on the visual distraction and with the card above doesn't restrict the eyes tracking to the next line.
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#15 MerryAtHope

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Posted Today, 04:34 PM

Bless her heart! She certainly is working hard!

 

Oh, and no real other signs of issues....she does still get b/d mixed up but not as much as she used to. Visual tracking was checked on the mind play thing and she got perfect scores. 

 

I'm not familiar with mind play, but I do wonder about vision tracking issues. It could just be since it's a big paragraph block of text, but I noticed in the video that she shifts positions a lot. Several times she moved so she could lean way over the text, and one time she tilted her head to the side (I wasn't sure if she was just tired and laying her head down though). She also seems to point to different places around the word as she's trying to track. Things like seeing the "sn" in snail as "sh" at first, and skipping a line could also be potential signs--though again, if she was tired from working so hard, it could be that and that it's a big block of text. Just things that make me say "hmmm...." Needing to sound out "pet snail" both times in such close proximity also reminded me of my son who struggled to recognize words and always had to sound out every single one (he needed vision therapy). Anyway, it might not be that, but enough things stood out to me from the video that I thought I'd mention it.

 

The text did seem pretty difficult for her since she had to sound out almost every word, even the short-vowel words. Do you ever back up and have her re-read easier stories to try to build up fluency and confidence? Hang in there!