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How long should math reasonably take?


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#1 La Condessa

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Posted 08 October 2017 - 12:11 PM

I am dealing with some major attitude issues with dd1 right now. I would prefer to just have her work for a set length of time on math each day, but if I give her a time limit, she will work very slowly so she doesn't have to do much. Her math is taking FOREVER since we started the school year, and dh thinks maybe I am assigning too much work per day. So I'm wondering what other moms think is reasonable for a given length of time.

How long would you expect a page of math to take your third grader on average? Or how many pages would you expect your student to reasonably finish in an hour?

For a kid using Singapore math 4 intensive practice and challenging word problems, who is bright in math.

#2 HomeAgain

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Posted 08 October 2017 - 12:16 PM

Math has always taken about an hour in our house, but that's a mixture of play, story, and worksheet.  I would not have a kid do more than one worksheet a day since that's the practice, not the lesson.



#3 OrganicJen

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Posted 08 October 2017 - 12:20 PM

I think I've always had the idea that about an hour was a good amount of time. My son can't work based on time though so I have to just say for him to complete these certain pages because if I say to work for an hour he would get less done and just stare, so I don't let him know how much time I expect him to take.
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#4 Arcadia

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Posted 08 October 2017 - 12:21 PM

My DS11 could only last 30mins on math when he was 7/8 years old. He is now doing precalculus at 7th grade so that hasn’t held him back. My DS12 can do math all day long at that age and finished the entire IP or CWP workbook in a day so we stop buying those.

So different kids different concentration span and expectations. Their math abilities are about the same but no way can my younger boy concentrate for hours like my older boy.

#5 Lace

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Posted 08 October 2017 - 12:24 PM

Last year in 3rd grade I expected 30 minutes of focused attention for math from my DS#1.  In Beast Academy last year, that was generally 2-4 pages with an average around 3 but could be as little as a single problem or as much as 6 or 7 pages.  I'm not familiar with SM 4 worksheets, so I couldn't say what would be reasonable for that program.  In order for the work-for-X-time system to work for him I must sit right next to him for the entire time.


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#6 La Condessa

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Posted 08 October 2017 - 12:51 PM

I aim for around 45 minutes to an hour worth of work, which used to be around 5 pages if none of them were especially challenging. Since starting up again after taking a break in the summer, though, she can spend over an hour on one page. She does somewhat better if I sit with her the whole time and do not divide my attention at all (only working at about half of her prior pace, instead of a quarter), but I have four children. It doesn't seem unreasonable to me to expect the same degree of independence as she had as a second grader--I would start her off, explain the concepts, go over the first question or two with her, and then have her work in the same room while I work with a younger sibling and am available to help if she needs it.

#7 HomeAgain

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Posted 08 October 2017 - 01:02 PM

I aim for around 45 minutes to an hour worth of work, which used to be around 5 pages if none of them were especially challenging. Since starting up again after taking a break in the summer, though, she can spend over an hour on one page. She does somewhat better if I sit with her the whole time and do not divide my attention at all (only working at about half of her prior pace, instead of a quarter), but I have four children. It doesn't seem unreasonable to me to expect the same degree of independence as she had as a second grader--I would start her off, explain the concepts, go over the first question or two with her, and then have her work in the same room while I work with a younger sibling and am available to help if she needs it.

 

I think this is where the phrase "work with what you've got" comes in. :)  Each age has different difficulties.

 

Maybe she would do better if you set a timer?  When I say "I want you to concentrate for 8 minutes" and set an alarm, he knows he'll get a small mind break after that time and works well for the short burst of time.  Over the year we'll slowly increase it to 15-20 minutes by the end, and start next year at around 10.  That's for his most difficult subject, language arts.  He just needs that broken down right now, and I get better work than if it was open ended.
 



#8 MistyMountain

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Posted 08 October 2017 - 01:18 PM

I can't get mine in that grade to even work independently much. It definitely takes a long time to do math and in that time less gets accomplished then I like. I even do a lot of it orally.

#9 regentrude

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Posted 08 October 2017 - 04:42 PM

My DS could only focus on math for 45 minutes in 6th-8th grade. I would not expect a 3rd grader to spend more than 30 minutes on math in one sitting.

I would not expect her to work on math independently, but would be directly next to her, even when she is completing worksheets. That way, you can redirect when attention wanders or help when they get stuck. 


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#10 OhElizabeth

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Posted 08 October 2017 - 04:47 PM

Yeah around that age I was getting from my dd (ADHD, no SLDs, very bright) 35 minutes, of which the last 10 or so could be with me 10 feet away in the kitchen. For ds, who just turned 9, well he's just not representative. I go for 3 sessions of 10-15, but they're totally interactive, never independent at all. He has ASD and SLDs and is a real pistol.

 

I would shoot for a mixture, alter the time of day, and make sure whatever is following math is motivating.



#11 Ausmumof3

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Posted 08 October 2017 - 05:52 PM

I am dealing with some major attitude issues with dd1 right now. I would prefer to just have her work for a set length of time on math each day, but if I give her a time limit, she will work very slowly so she doesn't have to do much. Her math is taking FOREVER since we started the school year, and dh thinks maybe I am assigning too much work per day. So I'm wondering what other moms think is reasonable for a given length of time.

How long would you expect a page of math to take your third grader on average? Or how many pages would you expect your student to reasonably finish in an hour?

For a kid using Singapore math 4 intensive practice and challenging word problems, who is bright in math.


I find 3rd grade is peak age for math dawdling. I use a mix of strategies like sitting next to the kid and reminding them to start the next problem, limiting time spent, dividing longer lessons.

It seems to get better and by 5th my oldest just gets it done now.
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#12 2ndgenhomeschooler

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Posted 08 October 2017 - 06:34 PM

My 3rd grader is young for his grade (not 8 for another month) and 15 or 20 minutes is about all I can get out of him at a stretch. My 10yo 5th grader can manage 20-30 minutes. They're both pretty decent at math they just can't do it it for long periods of time. That's usually enough time to get through one SM exercise. If not, we only do half the problems. If they need more practice we finish it the next day.

#13 MeaganS

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Posted 08 October 2017 - 06:54 PM

My 3rd grader has attention issues and math issues. So math is our daily low point. I sit next to her and scribe most of her math. When I do, it takes a half hour because I can constantly redirect. When I don't, it literally takes 3 hours. My 1st grader spends about an hour a day, but she likes math and is almost completely independent and diligent with it.

#14 Rosika

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Posted 08 October 2017 - 07:07 PM

This was an age I had to sit and do the work along side the student - so far, with ALL of my kids, who vary widely when it comes to personalities and learning types. So I'm convinced it must be somewhat normal. Unfortunately. 

 

We did a minimum of 30 minutes math. My goal was 45 minutes for math daily. Math was a subject that we ended up working on well into summer most years, beginning in about 3rd grade. I had to frequently remind myself to consider the bigger picture ... to prioritize the war, not to focus to hard on the battle. This meant that we did move slowly and got less done per day than was ideal. But I did not want my students to dread math more than they already did, nor did I want it to become a bigger control issue than it had the potential to become. So I had to do some mental adjusting of my expectations and desires, too. 

 

MUS is what we use. Sometimes I would cut up the math page into 1-2 question sheets (depending on how the sheet was formatted). I'd tape these strips around the room so that math became something we did in spurts (totaling 30-45 min, but not that much math at a single sitting). It worked out to a few problems during transition (from grammar to reading, e.g.) Sometimes we did math during lunch because having something else to focus on (eating) kept the meltdowns to a minimum.

 

I guess my suggestion is to consider breaking up math into bite-sized chunks if that might work for your kid.


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#15 sgo95

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Posted 08 October 2017 - 07:48 PM

For 3rd grade math I expect around 20-30 minutes, which is enough to keep my kids on pace to start Algebra around 6th-7th grade.



#16 La Condessa

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Posted 08 October 2017 - 07:58 PM

Okay, maybe I am expecting too much. I'll try this week shortening my expectations and seeing if I can keep her on task in shorter bursts.

#17 RootAnn

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Posted 08 October 2017 - 08:38 PM

I think it depends on how brain-intensive it is. I sit with my ds#1 for 30 minutes of math. Ideally, he runs before math & then takes a brief break after those 30 minutes. He does 10-15 minutes more after the break or later in the day, whichever he can take. If he's been dealing with a new concept or it has been a really rough math session, he has to do the math later. His brain just can't take anymore or he just makes a ton of mistakes.

 

At the beginning of the school year, this amount of time might yield *almost* two sides of a page. This last week, he's been able to get done both sides of a page and scattered problems on another side.



#18 MerryAtHope

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Posted 08 October 2017 - 11:33 PM

It sounds like she's ahead in math, and maybe even though she's really bright, some of the topics are hard for her. I think limiting to 30 minutes or fewer problems or working with her to see what the issues are could help. I hope this week goes better for you both!



#19 Jackie

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 12:29 AM

My 7yo does 25 minutes a day, and that’s stretching it sometimes. When I get the sense that she is dawdling, we play “beat the timer”. I mark a point in the book that I believe she can finish in the allotted time, and she is finished with math when the timer goes off or she gets to the marked problem, whichever comes first. She likes beating the timer, even if it’s just by a minute or two.

#20 loesje22000

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 11:04 AM

At 3rd-4th grade we did a 30 minute session in the morning and a 10-15 min, session in the afternoon.
Dd does still most of her subjects in 30 min. bits

#21 SilverMoon

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 11:41 AM

I'm thinking thirty minutes tops at that age. After that even the very mathy kids were just brain fried and it was pointless.

Maybe two smaller sessions would work well?

#22 SilverMoon

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 11:45 AM

After skimming other posts... Yes, keep her at your elbow for the "independent" parts. You can redirect easily, prevent bad habits from forming, and help as needed.

#23 wendyroo

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 11:48 AM

My 3rd grader spends ~20 minutes on problem solving in the morning (currently Hands on Equations word problems) and ~20 minutes on arithmetic in the afternoon (currently Math Mammoth 6b).

 

During both of those blocks he is about 75% independent, but I am very proactive about offering support.  I glance over at him often, and if I see that his attention has wandered or he appears frustrated, then I will casually check in with him, give him a hint about a problem that is stumping him, scribe a couple answers for him so that he can quickly cover a lot of ground, etc.

 

Wendy


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#24 4kookiekids

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 02:30 PM

Wow! My oldest (8 / 2nd grade) spends 20ish min a day on math (either Singapore or BA - his choice), mostly independently (goes in about 5-10 when we do it together) and he doesn't do any arithmetic or games on top of that.


Edited by 4kookiekids, 09 October 2017 - 02:31 PM.


#25 letsplaymath

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 02:47 PM

Thinking is hard work! My goal was a maximum of 10 minutes per grade level (based on age, not the number written on the book). But even that was too much for one daughter, who had an emotional crash if we went longer than 30 minutes even in middle school. Always better to stop before the tears start flowing...

And as others have mentioned, it can make a big difference if you work together. Just sitting beside her is good, but actually sharing the work is even better: Buddy Math.


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#26 4kookiekids

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 02:54 PM

I'm amazed and impressed by all these kids who do an hour of math a day. I've tutored math for over 15 years, and I refuse to go longer than 1 hour for most people because I find that right around 50-60 minutes of real work at learning new things, most people's brains start to fry. And that's tutoring adults! lol. :)


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#27 happypamama

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 03:02 PM

An hour for that age sounds like a lot. My third grader might spend 30 minutes. Maybe 40 if it’s something like long division that is lengthy. And that’s with Singapore. Maybe you don’t need ALL the problems know Singapore? I started out using the workbook for my oldest son and quickly found that the test was plenty, for instance, and even then, we didn’t need to do every problem.

My 12yo really can’t spend more than 45 minutes, and neither can my 15yo. Their brains start to get tired.

#28 OneStepAtATime

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 03:05 PM

FWIW, as math levels increase it is going to take more brain power.  I would not be going by amount of pages completed but by how well she is learning and then internalizing and practicing the material and making cognitive connections.  This isn't a race, nor is math a subject I would just be box checking.  I was box checked all the way through school and ended up with a pretty lousy understanding in math.  

 

Honestly, with math, sometimes less is more.  A student may get far more out of spending focused time really doing well at a few math problems, really digging in and understanding and practicing the lesson that was taught, then rushing through page after page just to say they completed x number of pages each day.  

 

Does that make sense?  I hope I am making sense.


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#29 Bluegoat

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 03:50 PM

My 4th grader is at about 30 min - though if she sets her mind to work she can get it done a lot faster most of the time.

 

I find too much more and it's really diminishing returns.

 

We use Mathmammoth, and I usually don't do more than one "topic" at a time.  So, if there are three pages on bar graphs, we might do part or all of them, depending.  But I wouldn't likely add another section - I feel like one set of topics at a time is enough to absorb.  If I wanted to do a second topic in a day, I'd have another math period at a different time.


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#30 HomeAgain

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 05:15 PM

I'm amazed and impressed by all these kids who do an hour of math a day. I've tutored math for over 15 years, and I refuse to go longer than 1 hour for most people because I find that right around 50-60 minutes of real work at learning new things, most people's brains start to fry. And that's tutoring adults! lol. :)

 

Well, I think it depends on the kid and the approach. I know I said above that mine does an hour and it does sound like a lot.  While I wouldn't do it with most kids, mine really likes math.  I mean, really.  An hour here starts with a bit of mental play, then some hands on or a game, then a short worksheet, and then a chapter of Life of Fred.  Like, today:

-he did the 60 second multiplication challenge someone posted.  Well, he's working up to 60 seconds.  Right now he does it orally instead of a computer.

-I introduced a protractor and how to use it.  He spent a good half hour drawing angles of all sorts/measuring others while I told him about Sir Cumference and the Obtuse Mountains.  I probably misremembered the story so I'll have to get the book.  But he loved the activity so spent that long on it.

-he did a quick worksheet covering work of the past week.

-and then we cuddled together and read a chapter in Goldfish.
 

If we spend an hour on worksheets he would rebel, no matter how much he likes math.  His favorite part is application - seeing how it works in the real world and making sense of it all.  He's engaged through the entire hour and thinks of it as playtime.


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#31 nixpix5

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 05:17 PM

We do two math programs each and it depends on the child but:

DD8 is doing Singspore 2A and BJU 2 right now. She does BJU lesson and then page front and back. She then does a Singspore exercise. Tends to be about 40 to 45 min total. If she needs a lesson on SM then it can be an hour per day.

DS6 is doing RS and BA 2A. His RS lesson is usually 20 to 30 min and BA reading and page front and back takes him about 10 to 15 min right now.

DS6 does MUS and Saxon 2. He does a MUS page front and back that takes all of 10 min. If he watches the video on Monday then 20 min usually total. Saxon takes about 20 to 30 min.

So each child is probably around the 45 min per day average. For the last child I mentioned he is independent completely with MUS but saxon I do the lesson and sit with him for his practice work. He typically doesn't need me but since it is new to him this year I want to stay on top of making sure he isn't forming any bad habits.

#32 Lori D.

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 06:12 PM

Singapore 4 -- plus the Challenge portions -- is a big step up in difficulty, and an increase in the number of word problems and needing to set up the "bar" method of problem-solving. Children and not machines or adults (lol), and the fairly sudden and recent development of attitude suggests a child is being stretched more than they are capable of, so your DD may be hitting some topics that are harder mentally for her and she may need to slow down or do a bit less for now while her brain "chews on" these new and harder concepts.

 

And, agreeing with previous posters -- more than about 30-35 minutes in one sitting for a 9yo (who may not be that esp. "into" Math ;) ) seems long to me. Even in high school, my math-minded DS#1 (who used Singapore in elementary/early middle school grades) was "done" mentally at about the 50-60 minute mark.

 

Your DD might need to have math broken into several shorter focused bursts of concentrated time -- 20-30 minutes for the first "bite" of math, and then one or two 10-15 minute "bites" of math spaced out later in the day. A lot of students struggle with math (an abstract topic), and have only very limited concentration at a time for it.

 

Another possibility is that seeing the entire page of math at once is visually overwhelming and distracting. You might try using a blank piece of paper with 1/4 cut away and place that over the page so she only sees 1/4 of the work page at a time, to reduce visual overwhelming.

 

Another option is to sit nearby and re-direct regularly(I needed to do this with math struggling highly-distractible DS#2 until about age 12). Just plan to do your own work or chores nearby, and look over at DD's workpage when she starts to drift or self-distract and say, "That's great! Now how do you do the next one?" or "Nice! Do you see how to do the next one?" or "Great job on that one, that's correct! How about we see if you can do the next 3 problems in less than _____ minutes (or before I finish my work here in ____ minutes?" <--- and I deliberately let DS "win" on those when he was trying hard and focusing.

 

Another option is setting a timer to help DD stay focused. (However, I would not use this for a math session extending longer than 30 minutes.)

 

BEST of luck in finding what works best for your DD! Warmest regards, Lori D.


Edited by Lori D., 09 October 2017 - 06:23 PM.


#33 Lori D.

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 06:20 PM

I aim for around 45 minutes to an hour worth of work, which used to be around 5 pages if none of them were especially challenging. Since starting up again after taking a break in the summer, though, she can spend over an hour on one page. She does somewhat better if I sit with her the whole time and do not divide my attention at all (only working at about half of her prior pace, instead of a quarter), but I have four children. It doesn't seem unreasonable to me to expect the same degree of independence as she had as a second grader--I would start her off, explain the concepts, go over the first question or two with her, and then have her work in the same room while I work with a younger sibling and am available to help if she needs it.

 

Just now reading through the thread and seeing this update from you. That's great that you can be in the same room and available to help as needed. :)

 

Sounds like too much to me; I'd back it down to 2 pages on the days a new concept is being introduced, and 3 on the days when it's practicing already introduced concepts.

 

As I mentioned in my other response, Singapore 4 is a jump up in difficulty, as it introduces a number of new and more complex concepts, and it includes more word problems and some take more than 1 step to solve.

 

Be careful about assuming you can expect the same amount of independence as when she was younger -- the concepts may not be clicking as immediately or as smoothly now for DD as back in 2nd grade, so she may legitimately need more hand-holding right now.

 

JMO! :)


Edited by Lori D., 09 October 2017 - 06:24 PM.


#34 Catheryn

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 07:49 PM

nm 

 


Edited by lllllll, 16 October 2017 - 07:56 AM.

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#35 abacus2

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 09:28 PM

My third grader needs me at her side for math. We typically do two pages of math, every other problem. Your question is kind of like, "How long should it take to cook dinner?" The answer depends on many factors, not the least of which is the complexity. More complex math may take much longer.


Edited by abacus2, 09 October 2017 - 09:30 PM.


#36 BlsdMama

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 09:09 AM

I am dealing with some major attitude issues with dd1 right now. I would prefer to just have her work for a set length of time on math each day, but if I give her a time limit, she will work very slowly so she doesn't have to do much. Her math is taking FOREVER since we started the school year, and dh thinks maybe I am assigning too much work per day. So I'm wondering what other moms think is reasonable for a given length of time.

How long would you expect a page of math to take your third grader on average? Or how many pages would you expect your student to reasonably finish in an hour?

For a kid using Singapore math 4 intensive practice and challenging word problems, who is bright in math.

My goal in the early years is always light work makes a diligent and eager worker, so school is pretty light with short lessons and short assignments.  I would not expect my 3rd grader to do anything that would take beyond about a half hour class period.  We generally do not do a lot of early math but my fourth grader (9) is doing math this year.  She spends about ten minutes learning a lesson with me and then I cut down the lesson so that it can be completed in about twenty minutes.



#37 Heigh Ho

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 09:17 AM

Something that may be helpful is putting her IP problems on whiteboard, and encouraging her to work on them outside of math time, when her brain is ready to puzzle and her body has had some exercise.  Official math time can be CWP, and using a blank page per problem may be helpful.


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#38 fralala

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 11:11 AM

I think a good attitude to have about math is that the point is thinking and learning, and that we must develop diligence for those things. I don't attach a lot of importance to time because I think that risks penalizing diligence, concentration, interest in a problem, and-- ultimately-- understanding. Is there a way you can look at the worksheets and problems you would like your daughter to get to, and then spread those over the course of the day in a form that would be more appealing to her? (Giving problems verbally, playing a game, etc.?) Sometimes with multiple kids to care for this is the only way I can really make sure we're covering everything and maintaining a positive relationship with each other and math.


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#39 La Condessa

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 02:26 PM

The past two days, I have given her half an hour of my undivided attention for math right after breakfast, and then sent her off to do other things for an hour or two.  Later, she's done another 15 or 20 minutes with our former level of independence--me there and available to help if needed, but dividing my attention among other siblings at the same time.  I told her that if she worked diligently for that time, then she was done, no matter how far she had gotten.  It has gone way better!  I am still dealing with attitude at other times, but math has not been the focus point of it.

 

the fairly sudden and recent development of attitude suggests a child is being stretched more than they are capable of,

 

I appreciate your comments and advice, but just a note: this child develops attitude issues every single time we take a break from school, in direct proportion to the length of the break.  I have sworn off summer vacations because of her in the past, but I was so burned out by the end of last school year that I took one anyway for my own sanity.  So I knew to expect this, but it has been her worst transition back ever.


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#40 Lori D.

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 02:37 PM

I appreciate your comments and advice, but just a note: this child develops attitude issues every single time we take a break from school, in direct proportion to the length of the break.  I have sworn off summer vacations because of her in the past, but I was so burned out by the end of last school year that I took one anyway for my own sanity.  So I knew to expect this, but it has been her worst transition back ever.

 

:grouphug:  :grouphug:

 

Has she been tested for any learning issues (stealth dyslexia, dysgraphia, dyscalculia, processing issues, executive functioning deficits, etc.), or for vision issues (needing glasses) or vision tracking and convergence issues (needing vision therapy)?

 

Often, students who were able to "hide" LDs when they were younger, become increasingly unable to do so as the rigor of the work increases, and the stress/fear/frustration the child experiences at increasingly being unable to keep up with the material (or keep up the appearance of learning) translates into attitude issues.

 

So sorry this has been a rough year so far! Hope things quickly smooth out. Warmest regards, Lori D.



#41 La Condessa

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 02:55 PM

:grouphug:  :grouphug:

 

Has she been tested for any learning issues (stealth dyslexia, dysgraphia, dyscalculia, processing issues, executive functioning deficits, etc.), or for vision issues (needing glasses) or vision tracking and convergence issues (needing vision therapy)?

 

 

Nope.  Her vision has tested above average, and learning issues have never seemed likely.  She is a really bright kid who is ahead of her age group in every subject except spelling, and is now up to grade level there.  She has dealt with major perfectionism issues, but we have made a ton of headway in teaching her to deal with that over the years. 

 

But she has always had issues with change.  As a baby, she slept like a dream for 12 hours a night if she went to sleep at the same time in the same place with the same routine she was used to.  If we were half an hour late starting her bedtime routine, or couldn't find the right book, etc, she would be up for hours screaming before we could finally get her down. 



#42 Evanthe

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 03:17 PM

My DS could only focus on math for 45 minutes in 6th-8th grade. I would not expect a 3rd grader to spend more than 30 minutes on math in one sitting.

I would not expect her to work on math independently, but would be directly next to her, even when she is completing worksheets. That way, you can redirect when attention wanders or help when they get stuck. 

 

I agree.  

 

About 30 minutes at the most (at that age).  That was even asking a lot for my kids at that point.

 

Math is the subject I tend to do with my kids - even my teens.  For my 10th grader, I still have to teach each lesson on the dry erase board, work a few example problems with her and then release her into the wild to work her practice problems.  After she does her problems, I rework with her what she missed.   :glare:   So, some of them are never able to do math completely on their own.    


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#43 J-rap

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 03:19 PM

When the kids were younger it took about 30 minutes.  As they got older, it took about an hour.



#44 Evanthe

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 03:26 PM

She has dealt with major perfectionism issues, but we have made a ton of headway in teaching her to deal with that over the years. 

 

But she has always had issues with change.  As a baby, she slept like a dream for 12 hours a night if she went to sleep at the same time in the same place with the same routine she was used to.  If we were half an hour late starting her bedtime routine, or couldn't find the right book, etc, she would be up for hours screaming before we could finally get her down. 

 

I have 2 girls that are exactly like this.  I'm starting to think they never outgrow it, no matter how much we try to "help" them.  It's a permanent personality trait.  Dd15 is taking an outsourced high school science course - and this is the first time she's ever taken an outside class, so it's even more anxiety-producing than normal.  Anyway, she was having some anxiety because her average in the class fell from a 108% to a 100%.   :001_unsure:   Seriously??  

 

I have no advice about the perfectionism/not liking change.  Ugh.  That's an epidemic in this house!



#45 Lori D.

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 03:48 PM

Nope.  Her vision has tested above average, and learning issues have never seemed likely.  She is a really bright kid who is ahead of her age group in every subject except spelling, and is now up to grade level there.  She has dealt with major perfectionism issues, but we have made a ton of headway in teaching her to deal with that over the years. 

 

But she has always had issues with change.  As a baby, she slept like a dream for 12 hours a night if she went to sleep at the same time in the same place with the same routine she was used to.  If we were half an hour late starting her bedtime routine, or couldn't find the right book, etc, she would be up for hours screaming before we could finally get her down. 

 

Yea! Certainly sounds as if those are not likely to be issues. :)

 

Just wanted to clarify for others who may be reading that:

 

- standard vision testing for astigmatism (near/far sighted and blurry vision) does NOT test for/rule vision convergence issues (coordinated eye movement and focus)  -- that requires special, different testing -- and 20/20 vision does NOT mean there can't still be a convergence issue

 

- being very bright does NOT exclude the possibility of having a learning, processing, or behavioral disorder; a very bright child can also have LDs -- that is where the label "2E" for "twice exceptional" comes from

 

 

... She has dealt with major perfectionism issues, but we have made a ton of headway in teaching her to deal with that over the years. 

 

But she has always had issues with change.  As a baby, she slept like a dream for 12 hours a night if she went to sleep at the same time in the same place with the same routine she was used to.  If we were half an hour late starting her bedtime routine, or couldn't find the right book, etc, she would be up for hours screaming before we could finally get her down...

 

That certainly sounds like much more of an innate trait -- perfectionism, a rigid personality (difficulties in being flexible when the unexpected happens), getting "brain stuck" in a must-have routine, and difficulty in making transitions. That is often a trait had by those with autism or who are on the spectrum. I'm NOT at all suggesting your DD is autistic or on the spectrum, but you might find some helps from reading about how parents help autistic/spectrum kids overcome or minimize the impact of this particular behavior.

 

Just a thought: perhaps playful conversations outside of school which encourage DD to come up with ideas of what she can do if her situation unexpectedly changes might help. Make it a kind of game where you both come up with ideas -- some real, some intentionally silly.

 

Both of our DSs here were very difficult about transitions and unexpected changes in the schedule when they were toddlers/pre-schoolers, but by elementary grades, they had outgrown a lot of that. We still needed a very slow/gentle transition for starting back up with school -- start with just 2-3 subjects, and then each week add in another 2 subjects. it took us about 3-4 weeks to get up to full speed.

 

However, it sounds like you have an extra-difficult situation here. :( Wishing you all BEST in finding what best helps! Warmest regards, Lori D.

 

articles:

Flexible Thinking: Encouraging Kids to Go With the Flow

Teach Flexibility

 

books:

What To Do When Mistakes Make You Quake: A Kid's Guide to Imperfection

What To Do When When Your Brain Gets Stuck: A Kid's Guide to Overcoming OCD

What To Do When Your Temper Flares


Edited by Lori D., 10 October 2017 - 03:50 PM.

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#46 La Condessa

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 04:08 PM

Thank you, Lori!

#47 tammyw

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 10:08 PM

We do 1 to 2 hours a day - my son is 11 doing AOPS pre-algebra - we do one chapter per day generally.

#48 Bluegoat

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 09:27 AM

The past two days, I have given her half an hour of my undivided attention for math right after breakfast, and then sent her off to do other things for an hour or two.  Later, she's done another 15 or 20 minutes with our former level of independence--me there and available to help if needed, but dividing my attention among other siblings at the same time.  I told her that if she worked diligently for that time, then she was done, no matter how far she had gotten.  It has gone way better!  I am still dealing with attitude at other times, but math has not been the focus point of it.

 

 

I appreciate your comments and advice, but just a note: this child develops attitude issues every single time we take a break from school, in direct proportion to the length of the break.  I have sworn off summer vacations because of her in the past, but I was so burned out by the end of last school year that I took one anyway for my own sanity.  So I knew to expect this, but it has been her worst transition back ever.

 

 

My kids have always been like this.  It seems like any break they take as a sign that the natural order of things is that they don't need to do any work.

 

ETA - it reminds me of riding a horse around a ring, and the horse is convinced they should be allowed to cut corners and ultimately just stand there in the middle doing nothing.  And if you let him do it even once, he'll never stop trying to shave off a little more.


Edited by Bluegoat, 11 October 2017 - 09:30 AM.

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#49 Calming Tea

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 10:49 AM

We set a time timer for 20 minutes and then she got a break but only if she focused for that 20 minted, then she got a 15 minute break, then another 20 minutes and by then she was usually finished the entire lesson and practice. This does not include teaching time. So I would sit down and go over any new material, and then start the Time Timer.

The Time Timer only worked for my dd using the real, large plastic one, not the phone app. Seeing the red pie disappear on a physical object really gave her a sense of time and looking forward to the reward.

#50 Calming Tea

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 10:50 AM

My kids have always been like this. It seems like any break they take as a sign that the natural order of things is that they don't need to do any work.

ETA - it reminds me of riding a horse around a ring, and the horse is convinced they should be allowed to cut corners and ultimately just stand there in the middle doing nothing. And if you let him do it even once, he'll never stop trying to shave off a little more.


Funny, my dd has this exact problem with her horse right now and I was just thinking how having a horse is just like having a kid!! If you give an inch they’ll take a mile and not on purpose, it’s what you’re training them to do/expect!
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