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Seriously hoping others will weigh in on this thread...


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#1 OneStepAtATime

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Posted 06 October 2017 - 02:00 PM

http://forums.welltr...nd-not-to-know/

 

ETA:  Above thread was hidden while being reviewed.


Edited by OneStepAtATime, 06 October 2017 - 06:12 PM.


#2 Lecka

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Posted 06 October 2017 - 02:20 PM

Sorry, can't do it. I don't have the bandwidth today.
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#3 Arcadia

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Posted 06 October 2017 - 02:22 PM

What she describes sounds like underachievers who intentionally underachieve by pretending. There are people like that around which was why I had a doctors note for PE accommodations. There are people who don’t want more difficult work and so they act dumb in order to cruise rather than be placed in hard classes.

My high school teachers wanted to put me into the most difficult class for math and Chemistry. I told them I wanted to cruise. So I wasn’t lying about my abilities but I am sure some of my classmates are purposely underachieving for daily work and did very well for college entrance exams. My classmates who were underachieving were not in remedial classes and did not have extra support so they didn’t use up any extra resources.

There was a school psychologist attached to the gifted program whose main responsibility was underachievers. That psychologist did cost tax payer money. However the gifted program does need a psychologist because there were classmates with anxiety and depression due to academics. So it was still a need even if underachievers don’t exist in that gifted program.

I don’t know what was the point of the OP on that thread you link though.

If 5% of public school kids waste tax payers money by pretending, then what does OP expects other people to do. I rather the local kids that get into trouble and end up in juvenile court pretend they need after school remedial help and end up staying out of trouble.
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#4 MerryAtHope

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Posted 06 October 2017 - 02:23 PM

I hesitate to because she's apparently not a homeschooler and I suspect she's a troll (possibly working for ixl, which she posted about in her only post outside that thread). It's a really odd thread for a newby to start and I hate to encourage it. I noticed a legitimate case of my son pretending to not know things, but I considered it an age-appropriate and creative way of responding to boredom. The appropriate response on my part was to alter my teaching approach. There were no tears involved--I employed humor when possible, or said, "Oh, it must be xyz [obvious wrong answer which student corrected]" if I wasn't 100% sure whether my son knew the material I was covering. 


Edited by MerryAtHope, 06 October 2017 - 02:24 PM.

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#5 Kinsa

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Posted 06 October 2017 - 02:32 PM

That post is just.... umm... wow.

 

I don't have the mental energy to combat it.  I suppose I'm just a malinger-er.  :lol:


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#6 OneStepAtATime

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Posted 06 October 2017 - 02:42 PM

I just hate for parents of kids that struggle to then hop on that thread and think what she is saying applies to their kid.  I got enough of that garbage from teachers and other professionals when my own kids were in school.  

 

Do some kids deliberately under perform?  Sure.  But this type of thing feeds right into the mindset of the people I run into all the time that think a kid that struggles is lazy or stupid or has a bad attitude in general.


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#7 Kinsa

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Posted 06 October 2017 - 02:45 PM

I just hate for parents of kids that struggle to then hop on that thread and think what she is saying applies to their kid.  I got enough of that garbage from teachers and other professionals when my own kids were in school.  

 

Do some kids deliberately under perform?  Sure.  But this type of thing feeds right into the mindset of the people I run into all the time that think a kid that struggles is lazy or stupid or has a bad attitude in general.

 

Yes.  Absolutely.

 

But I don't understand the whole point of the thread!  It's all so WEIRD!


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#8 OneStepAtATime

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Posted 06 October 2017 - 02:51 PM

Yes.  Absolutely.

 

But I don't understand the whole point of the thread!  It's all so WEIRD!

Me either.   Maybe she is just really bored or insecure and wanted to sound important and knowledgeable.


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#9 Arcadia

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Posted 06 October 2017 - 02:53 PM

But I don't understand the whole point of the thread! It's all so WEIRD!

My interpretation is that she is complaining about 5% of the public school population wasting tax payers money by pretending to need services. That’s all I got out of her long post.

She is not offering free services after all. Even though she mentioned people can PM her for advice.

Edited by Arcadia, 06 October 2017 - 02:54 PM.

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#10 Pawz4me

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Posted 06 October 2017 - 02:54 PM

Don’t feed the trolls.

Unless you just feel like having some fun. ;)
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#11 Kinsa

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Posted 06 October 2017 - 02:55 PM

I actually reported the thread.  Maybe if enough of us do that then it will disappear.  I find the entire thread to be highly insulting.


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#12 maize

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Posted 06 October 2017 - 02:57 PM

My interpretation is that she is complaining about 5% of the public school population wasting tax payers money by pretending to need services. That’s all I got out of her long post.

She is not offering free services after all. Even though she mentioned people can PM her for advice.


I get the impression that she believes she has an exceptional ability to detect these faking kids.

I feel bad for the kids she works with.
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#13 OneStepAtATime

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Posted 06 October 2017 - 02:58 PM

I get the impression that she believes she has an exceptional ability to detect these faking kids.

I feel bad for the kids she works with.

me too.  



#14 OneStepAtATime

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Posted 06 October 2017 - 02:59 PM

Don’t feed the trolls.

Unless you just feel like having some fun. ;)

I would happily ignore her if I weren't worried that others would read that thread and fear their own struggling kid is faking it.


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#15 Alice

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Posted 06 October 2017 - 03:01 PM

I clicked on the thread because I thought it was going to be about something like what my oldest would do...when he was preschool age he thought it was really funny to purposefully get things wrong. We had this math game and I was really worried because he couldn’t do even the simplest tasks. Then I realized he got every single one wrong (which seemed odd, even random guesses would occasionally be right) and would giggle every time. The game also kind of reinforced it because when you got a wrong answer there was this funny horse that would say something. He liked the horse. 

 

After I read the thread, I couldn’t even really grasp the point of the post except that it was pretty offensive. So I decided not to engage. 


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#16 Heathermomster

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Posted 06 October 2017 - 03:57 PM

Sorry ladies. I fed and then deleted. I did leave a really awesome link to a pic of a dude in a kilt. Check it out if looking at a dude in a kilt won't violate your conscience.
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#17 Arcadia

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Posted 06 October 2017 - 03:58 PM

I don’t understand this sentence though in her post #48 of that thread. What is validity response testing?

“ If it is enough of a struggle that you seek out an assessment, please consider clinics that follow their association's position statement on adding validity response testing to the list.”

ETA:
Also which association has position statements?

Edited by Arcadia, 06 October 2017 - 04:00 PM.


#18 OneStepAtATime

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Posted 06 October 2017 - 03:59 PM

Sorry ladies. I fed and then deleted. I did leave a really awesome link to a pic of a dude in a kilt. Check it out if looking at a dude in a kilt won't violate your conscience.

Actually, that really was an awesome pic.  LOL



#19 OneStepAtATime

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Posted 06 October 2017 - 04:00 PM

I don’t understand this sentence though in her post #48 of that thread. What is validity response testing?

“ If it is enough of a struggle that you seek out an assessment, please consider clinics that follow their association's position statement on adding validity response testing to the list.”

Yeah I didn't get it either.  



#20 OrganicJen

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Posted 06 October 2017 - 04:05 PM

It makes no sense as standardized tests already have measures of validity. Don't take any of her weird posts to heart they sound like the ramblings of a malingerer. ;)
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#21 Crimson Wife

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Posted 06 October 2017 - 04:41 PM

She'd probably think my SN child was a "faker".

 

-Nearly all have some other area of their life that they shine in

 

Yep, she's a talented artist

 

-none of them have had obvious cognitive delays, in fact the opposite is more likely, as in, they appear to be quite intelligent

 

She's quite intelligent (scored in the gifted range on a totally non-verbal IQ test) but she does, in fact, have cognitive impairments in working memory and auditory processing.

 

-chronically pretend not to know something they once knew

 

Day-to-day inconsistency is a huge problem for her. One day she'll whip through a particular exercise easy-peasy and the next she'll give you a "deer in the headlights" look like she's never before encountered the material.

 

-Students rather suddenly reverse a growth trend or skill and now can't see very well, hear very well, speak very well, read very well, spell very well, or do math very well.

 

It's called a progressive hearing loss and it's actually not super-uncommon. Only 1% of babies have hearing loss but it's 6% by school-age.

 

-I speculate (and hope it isn't so), that the hugely expensive emotional disorder known as Munchausen Syndrome, may be born this way.

 

I have been accused of Munchausen-by-proxy for being so determined to peel the layers of the onion of my child's complex issues.

 

-Yet this is still an emotional issue

 

DEAD WRONG and precisely BECAUSE I was so persistent in seeking outside expensive treatments and evaluations, I finally have irrefutable proof.

 

My heart breaks for all the SN kids who have to deal with this sort of [email protected] from self-proclaimed "experts".


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#22 Jean in Newcastle

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Posted 06 October 2017 - 04:53 PM

My heart breaks for all the SN kids who have to deal with this sort of [email protected] from self-proclaimed "experts".


Self proclaimed "expert" is right.
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#23 Arcadia

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Posted 06 October 2017 - 04:53 PM

My heart breaks for all the SN kids who have to deal with this sort of [email protected] from self-proclaimed "experts".


She works for the public schools. If I want to assume in a mean way, she is trying to deny services by claiming a child is faking.

Since homeschoolers can get services from their school district here, I guess she is assuming homeschoolers who ask for school evaluations are faking it too.
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#24 OneStepAtATime

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Posted 06 October 2017 - 05:02 PM

yep



#25 Kinsa

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Posted 06 October 2017 - 05:03 PM

I'm so torqued right now. I'm completely done with that thread. I seriously wish a moderator would delete it.
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#26 OrganicJen

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Posted 06 October 2017 - 05:05 PM

Self proclaimed "expert" is right.

 

I gave her an opportunity to divulge her true identity so that her credentials could be verified, but alas, she did not. 


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#27 Arcadia

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Posted 06 October 2017 - 05:17 PM

I gave her an opportunity to divulge her true identity so that her credentials could be verified, but alas, she did not.


This? https://kucrl.ku.edu...l Presenter.pdf

#28 OrganicJen

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Posted 06 October 2017 - 05:21 PM

 

Thank you, that helps!  I expect that if someone shows up and says for everyone to take notice that I am an expert in X that they would let us know why we should consider them an expert on X by divulging who they actually are. 


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#29 Heathermomster

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Posted 06 October 2017 - 05:25 PM

This? https://kucrl.ku.edu...l Presenter.pdf


If that is her, she lives 50 or so minutes away from me.

#30 OrganicJen

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Posted 06 October 2017 - 05:26 PM

She works for the public schools. If I want to assume in a mean way, she is trying to deny services by claiming a child is faking.

Since homeschoolers can get services from their school district here, I guess she is assuming homeschoolers who ask for school evaluations are faking it too.

 

Maybe you are right, it just isn't clear.  I don't think she is saying they all are fakers, but my main issue is I don't get what her point of posting that information here was and I don't feel she ever really clarified it except to say that in the past she has tried to share her information with homeschoolers and they haven't been receptive so she decided to do it again.  


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#31 OrganicJen

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Posted 06 October 2017 - 05:28 PM

If that is her, she lives 50 or so minutes away from me.

 

Yikes


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#32 Jean in Newcastle

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Posted 06 October 2017 - 05:29 PM

Maybe you are right, it just isn't clear. I don't think she is saying they all are fakers, but my main issue is I don't get what her point of posting that information here was and I don't feel she ever really clarified it except to say that in the past she has tried to share her information with homeschoolers and they haven't been receptive so she decided to do it again.


Except that she only said that after people repeatedly told her that her school based information wasn't particularly pertinent for this forum. Then suddenly she has a mission to reach out the homeschoolers.
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#33 Ethel Mertz

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Posted 06 October 2017 - 05:37 PM

Moderator hat on: I've sent a message to SWB and temporarily hidden the thread.



#34 OneStepAtATime

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Posted 06 October 2017 - 05:41 PM

Thanks EM.  


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#35 Kinsa

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Posted 06 October 2017 - 05:41 PM

Moderator hat on: I've sent a message to SWB and temporarily hidden the thread.


Oh, bless you.
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#36 Crimson Wife

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Posted 06 October 2017 - 06:04 PM

Maybe you are right, it just isn't clear.  I don't think she is saying they all are fakers, but my main issue is I don't get what her point of posting that information here was and I don't feel she ever really clarified it except to say that in the past she has tried to share her information with homeschoolers and they haven't been receptive so she decided to do it again.  

 

She stated that she thinks 1 in 5 kids in the SPED are "fakers".

 

There is a legitimate problem  called "malingering" but it's typically adolescents and adults who are trying to "game" the system in some way. All the 16 and 17 y.o.'s who are suddenly claiming "ADHD" in order to get extended time on the SAT's, adults trying to get workman's comp/disability/injury settlements, etc.
 


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#37 Pen

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Posted 06 October 2017 - 06:08 PM

I got an error mssg when I clicked.  Maybe it was removed?



#38 OrganicJen

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Posted 06 October 2017 - 06:08 PM

She stated that she thinks 1 in 5 kids in the SPED are "fakers".

There is a legitimate problem called "malingering" but it's typically adolescents and adults who are trying to "game" the system in some way. All the 16 and 17 y.o.'s who are suddenly claiming "ADHD" in order to get extended time on the SAT's, adults trying to get workman's comp/disability/injury settlements, etc.


It's scary that someone working in special education believes that 1 in 5 of those kids are faking.
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#39 OneStepAtATime

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Posted 06 October 2017 - 06:10 PM

I got an error mssg when I clicked.  Maybe it was removed?

Ethel Mertz hid the thread while it is reviewed.



#40 OneStepAtATime

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Posted 06 October 2017 - 06:11 PM

Her statements regarding kids who seem to know things then suddenly don't was supposed to be evidence that they are likely faking, which showed me just how little she must understand about kids who struggle.  Or how the brain functions in general.  Goodness, I forget stuff all the time.  I KNOW my kids do.

 

That kind of attitude is why my dad, whom I love very much and still miss, was NOT the best person to teach me math.  We would go over something, I swear I really did know what he was talking about in that instance and that is why I got that one answer right but by the next day (or even the next problem) that information was gone.  Just gone.  And I guarandamnteeyou I was not faking squat.  It was frustrating as heck.  He would get so mad (mad out of frustration himself, I'm sure) and insist I must know how to do it because we had gone over and I had understood.  Yeah, Dad, but that info didn't stick.  Sorry.  It really hurt my feelings and made me feel so stupid.

 


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#41 Arcadia

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Posted 06 October 2017 - 06:18 PM

It's scary that someone working in special education believes that 1 in 5 of those kids are faking.


Maybe she read too much of this kind of articles

“There is a long history of symptom-feigning in psychiatry, driven by legal, financial and academic motives. To counter this, a battery of tests has been developed to detect feigners. As yet there is not a specific test to catch feigned ADHD. Sollman and co used a range of general "malingering" tests to see if they could detect the fakers. No test by itself was able to pick out the students with fake ADHD. A glimmer of hope was offered by pooling the results of all these tests together, which did detect students who were faking their ADHD. However, this approach also identified two students with genuine ADHD as fake. Clearly an undesirable outcome.”
https://www.psycholo...-easy-fake-adhd
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#42 OrganicJen

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Posted 06 October 2017 - 06:18 PM

Her statements regarding kids who seem to know things then suddenly don't was supposed to be evidence that they are likely faking, which showed me just how little she must understand about kids who struggle. Or how the brain functions in general. Goodness, I forget stuff all the time. I KNOW my kids do.

That kind of attitude is why my dad, whom I love very much and still miss, was NOT the best person to teach me math. We would go over something, I swear I really did know what he was talking about in that instance and that is why I got that one answer right but by the next day (or even the next problem) that information was gone. Just gone. And I guarandamnteeyou I was not faking squat. It was frustrating as heck. He would get so mad (mad out of frustration himself, I'm sure) and insist I must know how to do it because we had gone over and I had understood. Yeah, Dad, but that info didn't stick. Sorry. It really hurt my feelings and made me feel so stupid.


It was also disturbing that she said that we should all take heart in knowing that when we feel frustrated about not making progress with our child in homeschool, not to worry, they are likely faking that they can't do something.
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#43 OneStepAtATime

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Posted 06 October 2017 - 06:20 PM

It was also disturbing that she said that we should all take heart in knowing that when we feel frustrated about not making progress with our child in homeschool, not to worry, they are likely faking that they can't do something.

Yeah.  That was really great, too.  Loved it.   :thumbdown:


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#44 Storygirl

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Posted 06 October 2017 - 06:34 PM

I couldn't bring myself to feed the troll, but reading that thread sure made me angry.

 

I, too, hated the suggestion that forgetting previously learned material was fakery. That is the very nature of DS's math disability. He forgets material that is not constantly practiced, because he never truly achieves mastery, and he can't generalize. He has a conceptual disability. He has good rote skills, so he can follow a formula and seem to understand, so teachers think he is making progress. Meanwhile, he forgets the foundational things he seemed to know before. It's like building a tower of blocks but having it supported by broken toothpicks on the bottom. Inevitably, the tower falls apart, but people who only see the top of it don't understand that the holes exist underneath.

 

Kids like this are often accused of pretending.


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#45 Crimson Wife

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Posted 06 October 2017 - 06:37 PM

Reminds me of my IL's who thought I could "cure" autism (actually a genetic mutation causing a neurological disorder) via corporal punishment :glare: :thumbdown:


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#46 OneStepAtATime

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Posted 06 October 2017 - 06:37 PM

I couldn't bring myself to feed the troll, but reading that thread sure made me angry.

 

I, too, hated the suggestion that forgetting previously learned material was fakery. That is the very nature of DS's math disability. He forgets material that is not constantly practiced, because he never truly achieves mastery, and he can't generalize. He has a conceptual disability. He has good rote skills, so he can follow a formula and seem to understand, so teachers think he is making progress. Meanwhile, he forgets the foundational things he seemed to know before. It's like building a tower of blocks but having it supported by broken toothpicks on the bottom. Inevitably, the tower falls apart, but people who only see the top of it don't understand that the holes exist underneath.

 

Kids like this are often accused of pretending.

Exactly


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#47 Jean in Newcastle

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Posted 06 October 2017 - 08:10 PM

Obviously neuropsychologists need to be able to tell if someone is trying to game the system for an unfair advantage or for drugs like Adderall. But that doesn't seem to be what this person was talking about.

Most children need some pushing to do their best. And really none of us do our absolute best all the time and I think that's fine. Can you imagine how stressful it would be if you had to do your best all the time?

But most people don't fake actual learning struggles. There are stigma attached to learning struggles that would go against this woman's thesis for one thing. I am sure there are some kids out there with a psychological disorder like this but I don't think that it is something that all parents should be worried about.


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#48 emmaluv+2more

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Posted 06 October 2017 - 08:44 PM

My 7 yo is likely dyslexic.  She is incredibly inconsistent and always has been.  One minute she knows something and the next it is gone.  I guarantee that she is not faking.  I am quite certain that she would give her right arm to not struggle.  And I would give both of mine to take the struggles for her. 

 

This woman's posts made me angrier than I recall being in quite some time.


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#49 OneStepAtATime

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Posted 06 October 2017 - 08:51 PM

My 7 yo is likely dyslexic.  She is incredibly inconsistent and always has been.  One minute she knows something and the next it is gone.  I guarantee that she is not faking.  I am quite certain that she would give her right arm to not struggle.  And I would give both of mine to take the struggles for her. 

 

This woman's posts made me angrier than I recall being in quite some time.

Yeah, same here and me too.  



#50 OneStepAtATime

OneStepAtATime

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Posted 06 October 2017 - 08:53 PM

And honestly, if she had come to WTM, taken a bit to get to know people, then asked some questions and shared her views I think people might have been willing to actually discuss.  She wasn't looking for discussion.  She was looking to "enlighten" us, as far as I can tell.  

 

ETA:  I don't know about anyone else but I've had enough "enlightenment" to last a life time.  So have my kids.


Edited by OneStepAtATime, 06 October 2017 - 08:54 PM.

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