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Difference between FAFSA and PROFILE efc


teachermom2834
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This does not impact me directly but a friend is dealing with this. My friend has kids in public school and they are high achievers. National Merit, tons of APs, etc. Oldest is in college at a "meets full need school" and she has limited her senior to looking at "meets full need" schools. The senior has a list of top tier schools she has good chance of admittance to.

 

The mom has been assuming all along that the "meets full need" refers to the FAFSA generated EFC so that she would be paying approximately half of it for each once the second starts. She finally decides to run a net price calculator at a desired school and gets a price about $17,000 more than she expected. She runs the calculators for all the desired schools and they vary from $17,000-$25,000 more than she expected. Double and more the FAFSA EFC. Turns out her PROFILE EFC is much higher (I think due to significant home equity) and of course all the schools get to determine your need and how to meet it however they would like.

 

I know our experienced parents on here know this and point it out all the time but my very smart friend got caught up in not understanding the nuances of this. She thought she was doing the right thing by seeking out the schools that promised to meet need. Now she is scrambling trying to figure out what to do for her senior and wondering how the college her oldest is at will recalculate her bill. She was expecting it to be cut dramatically but now she realizes these schools aren't going by FAFSA and they can determine need their own way.

 

I feel bad for my friend (though I know I tried to point this out, I am not sure I realized that there could be that big of a difference between the methodologies). She has been telling her high achiever that they could afford all these amazing schools and they have researched, visited, etc. I understand the answer is to drop down in rankings and compromise some of the dream school desires regarding location, prestige, etc. but this family is extremely rankings and prestige focused and they just don't want to hear any of that.

 

I feel bad for her but it is a hard conversation for me to have. Thousands and thousands of students cannot afford their dream schools. Her family is not alone in this. They are just out of reach for most families. My kids don't have the option of having dream schools at all and I don't feel guilty or bitter or slighted over that. It is just reality. There are lots of things we can't afford.

 

I know there is nothing new here. It is just on my mind because she is a good friend and was just devastated yesterday when the pieces came together for her and she figured this out.

Edited by teachermom2834
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As far as the oldest, I would not expect the cost to vary too much year to year unless the family's financial aid situation has changed. It might go down somewhat when the second starts school, but private schools don't necessarily cut the cost just because you have a second student in school.

 

As you know Profile schools will recalculate the EFC based on their own calculations. Most people find the net price calculators to be fairly accurate. If you have an unusual situation then I'd contact schools directly.

 

In her case, I'd encourage her to look at schools that give large amounts of merit money. There are lots of schools that give automatic large money for national merit. Many others that will give full tuition to full rides for great students. It takes some work to find the schools, but if the student has good academics then money is out there somewhere - just not necessarily at "meets full need" schools if you don't "need" as much. I'd also caution that some "meets full need" schools meet the need with loans so be cautious.

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I wouldn't have the conversation at all. You shared your knowledge with her in prior conversations and she ignored you. Their situation is what it is and theirs to figure out. If she asks for your advice/help, then I would jump in. Otherwise, I would pass the bean dip when to conversation comes up and let her vent without comment.

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It's just the reality of college selection.  MANY families cannot afford a "dream school" for their child even at meets needs schools.  We make 6 figures, my kid is an academic high flyer, and are primarily looking at schools where his ACT is above the 75% and gives merit.  What's worse is to take our crippling loans to try and make a dream school work.  And I'm not anti loan, but having a total debt amount being < 1 years starting salary of the grad is a good realistic guideline.  And preferably less to none if the student is considering graduate programs.  It's also a huge gift to your kids to have a well financed retirement. 

 

Unless something has drastically changed with their finances or kid #1's schools calculator, I doubt the money will change much for the oldest. 

 

I am attending a 4 week seminar on college selection right now.  The guy running it (he has done training to be a consultant) recommends having 2 safety schools.  A safety school should be an academic AND a financial safety.  And to always "Love thy Safety".   And go from there.   He says shoot for the stars, but be prepared to say no to what is not financially feasible.  In her case, having a couple good realistic safeties and then finding schools that give good merit.  There are especially some small, rural, high quality LAC's that are good with this.  There are also lesser academically prestigious schools that have honors programs.  Not every academic high flyer is at a prestigious name school.

 

In general, I agree that I wouldn't bring it up with a friend.  I'd just let her vent unless she's specifically asking for advice.  They'll figure something out and hopefully let go of the name game. 

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I don't know what there really is to do with people who make assumptions based on what they hope will happen, then are crushed when they find out that their assumptions were incorrect.  The schools have net price calculators to try to give insight into the cost of attendance, but they can't make people use them.

 

I would probably limit myself to mentioning scholarships if you hear of any, and recommend that they complete the FAFSA right away (it opened Oct 1 and uses info from the 2015 tax year or last-last year) and the CSS/Profile as soon as they know that their kid is definitely applying to a school that uses that document.  That will give them the best opportunity to be eligible for institutional scholarships that use early deadlines.  I might also talk about things like honors colleges at less selective schools and where the sweet spot is in helping find a school that offers the academics their kid is looking for at a price they can afford.  (That conversation might include bits like being a high ranking student in a smaller pond, going to a larger institution that has more possibilities for mentorship, the value of being able to do unpaid internships instead of working 40 hour weeks over the summer, and the reality that many students end up taking a 5th or 6th year to complete their degree.)

 

 

I run into people who are interested in service academies, but seem to want someone else to deliver all of the information instead of seeking it out themselves.  Those conversations include a lot of "I didn't know I had to..." and "No one told me that..."  Which always makes me scratch my head, because usually the thing they have missed doing is listed under Steps to Admission on the main Admissions page for the academy.  There is a certain amount of self-help expected.

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Thanks, all.

 

I am just listening to my friend but I guess I needed to vent a little. I have quite a bit of patience but at some point the conversation gets awkward when it turns to how they just won't consider a second tier school. I have pointed out that state universities have very smart students there but there is definitely a feeling that they need a top school to find smart enough peers. And it needs to be in a highly desirable city and/ or on the west coast or northeast.

 

Ugh. I know I just need to pass the bean dip! I know there is nothing I can say to convince the family that a lower ranked school isn't a catastrophe.

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I know there is nothing I can say to convince the family that a lower ranked school isn't a catastrophe.

Is your friend’s second child similar in statistics to her oldest? She might be feeling upset and guilty that her oldest gets more choices and her second child has to “settle for secondsâ€. My kids music teacher had to do that, older son gets to go to a pricier private university while younger son goes to the commuter state university. They miscalculated and so they had to teach music on weekday nights and all weekend as well just to pay for two kids in college. I don’t know if the younger son minds.

 

We ran the NPC since our kids are a year apart. If we have told both kids that we could afford two at UC at the same time and then realized that we could only afford two at CSU at the same time after oldest is a freshman in UC, it would be very upsetting and the mistake is by the parents but the child bear the consequence. If that scenario happens, we’ll ask relatives to bail us out and take a loan for the difference.

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Definitely the scenario. If anything, the second child has slightly better stats and could be argued is "more deserving". So no doubt it is a loaded situation. I see that and can understand how painful that will be for all parties.

 

I suspect this family will find a way to do it even if it means a home equity loan or cashing out retirement funds or big private or PLUS loans. I hate the financial stress that will put my friend under but knowing her, that stress would be less than feeling like her kids weren't maximizing their potential or settling for less than they deserve.

 

Ah well...Pass the bean dip.

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Yeah, the CSS Profile calculations screw over a LOT of families. I understand the reason why it started (wealthy families with clever accountants used to game the system) but no one should be forced to place their house at risk in order to send their kids to college. Whatever the median home value in the area where someone lives is should be excluded from the calculation. If someone has a fancy McMansion, then sure, include the amount over the median home price. But just because someone owns a house worth close to a million does not mean it’s a luxury home. It could be a modest home bought a number of years ago in a hot real estate market

 

 

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Interesting. I have worked in a university admissions office for 18 years and I've never heard of a Profile EFC. I should have started visiting this board a long time ago; it's insightful to find out what other issues people face at different institutions. So obviously, my university only uses the FAFSA EFC, so I've never dealt with this specific issue. BUT, every year I face people who have a totally unrealistic view of paying for college. There's always people who just apply without even bothering to see how much our tuition is. To them, it's immaterial because doesn't financial aid just pay for everything? They are in for a shock when they get the award notice and they have a balance! And it is sad when they just can't face reality. One year I had a student come all the way out to campus for orientation before his dad finally had to pull him and go home. They had all the numbers for months, but they kept clinging to the hope that the money was somehow going to magically appear. It's sad because I know how much parents want this for their kids and how much they just can't let their kids down with the bad news that they can't pay, but sheesh... this kid would have been so much better off if his dad had prepared him for the reality of their local state University a lot earlier, rather than let him come all the way out to campus to move in. Hopefully OP's friends will realize this and let their kid down sooner rather than later. 

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The CSS Profile is not always worse than FAFSA.  We had kids in colleges where it was used twice.  It certainly didn't hurt us and I guess in a way it helped since our cost was always less than FAFSA EFC which nowadays is higher than any college costs I think anywhere anyway.  Between CSS Profile and personal letter, I think the fact that I wasn't working not because I eat bon bons on the couch but because I am a disabled person who can't work and yet got sick so young that I never qualified for SS disability payments and the fact that there are many hidden costs to that disability not accounted for by so called health costs even though they are directly resultant to my health.  Of course, we had very little home equity too.

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Playing around with different meets full need school's NPC's - they show a very different amount that we "need" with the same numbers input to all of them. Also some schools meet your need with loans which I don't consider meeting my need at all. 

 

Profile schools are sometimes MORE generous than what the FAFSA EFC will lead you to believe. It is the case for my son. We are paying out a lot less than our EFC from the FAFSA (though what we are paying is more in line with the school's NPC).

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For two kids, the default PROFILE formula doesn't use 50/50, it uses 60/60. Each kid pays 60% of their EFC. I would warn her that the bill for kid #1 may not be going down by as much as she'd hoped, either.

 

I wish the PROFILE returned an EFC number like the FAFSA does. It's really not fair to families not to let them know their own EFC!

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Whatever the median home value in the area where someone lives is should be excluded from the calculation. If someone has a fancy McMansion, then sure, include the amount over the median home price. But just because someone owns a house worth close to a million does not mean it’s a luxury home. It could be a modest home bought a number of years ago in a hot real estate market

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I know some schools limit the amount of home equity to a multiple of AGI (usually between 1 and 3X income).

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Yeah, the CSS Profile calculations screw over a LOT of families. I understand the reason why it started (wealthy families with clever accountants used to game the system) but no one should be forced to place their house at risk in order to send their kids to college.  

 

 

In all fairness, no one has to risk their house in order to send their kids to college. The fewer than 300 schools that use CSS are very expensive private schools. There are excellent choices that have a much lower sticker price, and that are also much more likely to offer merit aid. 

 

The standard expectation is: past, present, future. Colleges consider it reasonable that you pay from the past (savings), the present (income), and the future (loans of any type). Cost of living is taken into account, but equity equals money, no matter how you gained that equity. Like JanetC said, most schools will limit what they expect you to take from equity, but won't hesitate to use some equity in their calculations. 

 

I don't think it's a given right to attend a $50k or $60k school. Do some of them have advantages? Certainly. But can you get a solid education and a good experience at far less expensive schools, and go on to succeed at your chosen profession? Certainly! There are a very few professions where I agree that the school and its name/connections can really be a critical component, but they are few and far between. And they are $$$ professions, not vocations, lol. I don't consider it a given right to be in high-end finance, either, although it would enable you to pay back those loans! 

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