Has anyone had success with LOE Essentials for remediation of teenager

[OrganicJen]

I'm helping a friend who wants to help a teenager who needs remediation with reading, vocab, and spelling.  He can read but he learned in public school and she doesn't think they actually taught him to sound out words so now when he comes acrosss words he doesn't know it is difficult for him when she has him sound out the words.  His vocabulary and spelling are also poor.  I thought of LOE Essentials since it covers reading, vocab, and spelling.  Has anyone used this to remediate an older child?  Is there something better out there?

[OneStepAtATime]

It would depend on the true underlying cause of his difficulties, I should think.  It could very well be that he is dyslexic and will need more explicit instruction broken down into tinier pieces.  Has he ever had an official evaluation?

[OrganicJen]

I believe she said all they found was just specific learning disability, that he learned slower but had no dyslexia etc.  He just seems not to understand how to sound out new words without help so we were thinking that if he could go back and learn phonograms etc that maybe it would help him. 

[*****]

I'm finding nearly the same with a friend who is in junior high.  Although this girl had an IEP for  a learning disability, the school feels she is getting good grades, so they are trying to say she doesn't need special ed anymore.  She scores very low in decoding (so this reminded me of your friend).  They aren't giving her instruction to help her learn to sound out words, but putting her on a computer-based program for reading, Moby Max.  I'm am so fed up with our public school system!  (I worked in the system recently and have seen how students are allowed to remain in classrooms with support, yet are not taught what they really need to be successful!)   It is such a band-aid approach. So if she continues as she is, I wonder if she will be like the young person you are talking about...not being able to sound out words for the long haul!  

 

Yes, I believe the Barton system will help in these cases.  I have not used the Logic of English, but have watched some of her youtube videos, and I think these are excellent. 

It will be interesting to see what others say about older students and the use of LOE...

[ElizabethB]

I have remediated dozens of teenagers and hundreds of elementary aged children who had little phonics knowledge and problems from sight word teaching in the public schools. I use the following, free to print, followed by the complete Webster Speller and review with a basic phonics program like Phonics Pathways or Blend Phonics. The addition of nonsense words and syllables make remediation a lot faster than when I used a normal phonics program.

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Reading/syllablesspellsu.html

 

The 1879 McGuffey readers are a good way to build up vocabulary and reading ability as a follow on. I also usually recommend SWB’s grammar and writing and Spelling Plus by Susan C. Anthony.

Edited October 3, 2017 by ElizabethB

[OrganicJen]

Thank you so much!

[OrganicJen]

I'm also fed up with our public school system. I didn't even realize until recently that they ever used any methods to teach reading besides phonics. No wonder there is a generation of people who don't read anymore.

[PeterPan]

SLD Reading includes dyslexia so you need to look at the CTOPP and report yourself. He probably also has low working memory so look at that.

[ElizabethB]

I'm also fed up with our public school system. I didn't even realize until recently that they ever used any methods to teach reading besides phonics. No wonder there is a generation of people who don't read anymore.

It was actually worse when I first started tutoring in 1994, they were using 100% whole word methods in many schools, my students did not even know their consonant sounds. Now it is still really sad, but there are a few less remedial students with balanced literacy than whole word and at least they know some phonics, although most do not know the two letter vowels well and other higher level phonics skills.

 

The recent brain science supports phonics, but there is a disconnect between science and the ed schools, Seidenberg wrote a whole book about the brain research and the disconnect, “Language at the speed of sight.â€

 

My students all have self esteem problems besides their reading problems, it is sad what it has done to their lives. The end up more confident and happy as their reading ability grows, but they should not have been in that situation in the first place, it is not their fault but they blame themselves.

 

I have a web page about why we have a generation that does not like to read called “Why Johnny Doesn’t Like to Read,â€

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Reading/aliterate.html

Edited October 3, 2017 by ElizabethB

[ElizabethB]

SLD Reading includes dyslexia so you need to look at the CTOPP and report yourself. He probably also has low working memory so look at that.

I think you would be surprised at the number of students who have average or above IQs and good memory who are not reading well because of the way reading is taught in schools. I have had hundreds of remedial students who have no LDs who gained 1, 2, 3, or 4 reading grade levels after a few weeks work with me.

 

About 1 percent of them actually had a vision or phonological processing problem in addition, and a few have had actual dyslexia, but the numbers are very small.

 

My homeschool students coming out of good teaching have a much higher percentage of problems and dyslexia.

Edited October 3, 2017 by ElizabethB

[PeterPan]

The op said the parent was told SLD.

[ElizabethB]

The op said the parent was told SLD.

 

 

You're right, I didn't notice that! 

 

A few of my students have been told they have a LD or were low IQ but were fine when their reading was fixed, how they get labelled and evaluated varies a lot by school district and state.  We have lived in a lot of different areas of the years, and the kids I have tutored have lived even more places, it really does vary wildly.  

[OrganicJen]

You're right, I didn't notice that! 

 

A few of my students have been told they have a LD or were low IQ but were fine when their reading was fixed, how they get labelled and evaluated varies a lot by school district and state.  We have lived in a lot of different areas of the years, and the kids I have tutored have lived even more places, it really does vary wildly.  

 

What I know about this student is that he was labelled SLD and was pulled out for small group instruction for reading and math and then parent was told reading was grade level so he was just pulled out for small group math but that's it.  But I listened to him read and I agree with her that he has difficulty sounding out longer or new words, as if he has no idea of what syllables are and how to sound out words.  We think the testing they did to decide he was reading at grade level was just some passage he had to read that he had probably read before or at least with words that weren't at all new to him.  

[PeterPan]

Many ps are doing so much with whole word, context, and voodoo reading that indeed a dc wouldn't know how to read, even after being identified with an SLD and being given intervention. Our district has no one trained in OG, NO ONE. It's astonishing. Next district over, yes, but not ours. 

 

You need to see the eval the school did and see if they ran a CTOPP.  It's a phonological processing testing. The school *should* have run that and they should have run something for IQ. Try to get the actual report from her, not just her impressions of the report.

 

It might also be wise to go ahead and get fresh evals, either through the ps or a private psych. You could also get a baseline with any tutor or SLP who has the CTOPP. You'd really like to have something like the CTOPP and DAR (achievement testing for reading) before you begin.

 

It doesn't sound like LOE is going to be a good choice.

[PeterPan]

Ok, I'll go down this rabbit trail here. Listening to someone read is not giving you really precise information, so that's why we're encourage you to make sure you get a CTOPP and some baseline testing done. If the ps didn't do it, it needs to be done. If the ps did it, then let her produce the evaluation report. In our state it's called and ETR (evaluation team report) and the parent gets a copy. 

 

That document, if she has it, is something she can take to her ped, along with the form for the NLS (national library service) and get him access to BARD. It's free and it's AWESOME. So it would give you helpful information and it would get the dc access to a very, very valuable service. 

 

If you do not find yourself in a position to provide OG tutoring to the dc, you can try to hook him up with qualified help. There are orgs that provide free tutoring. Some will have a wait list. Some states have disability scholarships. Or if she has school choice, she might be able to use that and get him transferred into a district or school that actually has people trained in OG. Calling a local OG tutor might help you find out what the local resources are, even if the parent doesn't think she can use the tutor.

 

The other thing to consider is the dispute process for IEPs and evaluations done by the ps. This dc has specific legal rights, including the right to DISPUTE results of the school testing and have PRIVATE evals paid for by the school. So you don't want to overlook his legal rights and protections here to get access to evaluations, if they were not done correctly. Evals can be extremely, extremely valuable to him over the longhaul. 

[OrganicJen]

That's all so good to know, I will pass it all along to the parent.  Thanks so much!  How aweful that schools can't reliably teach reading in an evidenced based manner.  Sheesh. 

[PeterPan]

Oh don't worry, they have evidence-based instruction on why whole word and context clues and guided repeated and repeated reading and whatnot are really great.  :lol:

 

Ok, we can sit here slamming the ps, but the truth is intervention materials are marked with tiers (Tier 1, Tier 2, Tier 3). So your friend might even know what tier of intervention they were using with her ds. But, as you say, once he hit grade level, they didn't care. In our state they have to consider discrepancy, so a dc with a gifted IQ would get instruction anyway but a more typical dc would lose it.

 

And personally, I think he's pretty bright if he learned to read in spite of the ps instruction, mercy.

[ElizabethB]

Many ps are doing so much with whole word, context, and voodoo reading that indeed a dc wouldn't know how to read, even after being identified with an SLD and being given intervention. Our district has no one trained in OG, NO ONE. It's astonishing. Next district over, yes, but not ours. 

 

 

Voodoo reading!!  Sad, but true.  I have hundreds of evidence based remediation, unfortunately.  Don Potter has hundreds more, and fellow tutor Vanessa Peters even more.  I'll have to email them your voodoo reading term, they'll get a kick out of it.