What would you call this?

[bluemongoose]

I am looking to get an evaluation, but it seems there is a wait...so until then, I thought I would pick the hive mind  :001_smile: .

 

DS 10yo (almost 11). This is what we know for sure so far....he has Aspergers, low processing speed and poor working memory. He also struggles with executive function and emotion regulation.

 

We have a lot going on between my DH and my kiddos, so we have tackled the worst problems first and worked down. I am now trying to figure out this problem that I've been watching for years, but have just been able to start looking for evaluations on it as it wasn't the most pressing problem before. I hope that makes sense!

 

Anyway...he reads at grade level. He started reading late (basic CVC words in late 1st grade and fully reading in late 2nd) and it was a struggle, but when it clicked he caught up. We waited until reading was going well before we started spelling, so he was behind, but again, he quickly caught up and is a pretty decent speller.

 

Here are the problems I am seeing:

 

1. He still confuses pqdb mostly when writing, not so much reading.

 

2. Sometimes his numbers or letters are flipped, but most often it is errors like was is saw, or a math answer that is 5321 will be written 1235. The digits or letters themselves may be flipped, but most often they are not. The other thing is it isn't consistent. He can write several problems correctly and then start flipping them. When you ask him to tell you what the answer is orally he will say it correctly, but he won't usually notice he wrote it wrong until you tell him so. 

 

3. He prefers to write in cursive, but he connects all his words together in one long word for the width of the entire page including the margins (top, bottom, and both sides :001_huh: ).

 

4. His hand is cramped when he writes and he complains. His writing reflects that in how thick the pencil is on the page and how cramped and squashed the letters are together. No amount of pencils grips, fountain pens, mechanical pencils etc have helped him use less pressure both in pushing down on the paper or in gripping the pencil.

 

5.  He also doesn't have a lot of reading stamina. He seems to tire easily. He rubs his eyes and then starts making more mistakes. Before this happens his comprehension is decent, I wouldn't say it is stellar, just average. After a few pages in, comprehension goes down. So while he is able to read and comprehend at grade level, he isn't able to sustain it for the amount of time a 5th grader should. His standardized test scores (we are required to take them in our state) have been on grade level and a few areas above grade level (some areas of math).

 

 

 

This is of course creating problems in math and in writing. He is fairly good at math, especially in geometry and things you visualize. He is amazing at designing and building contraptions. He loves anything mechanical. He has had his vision checked and it is perfect, so I know it isn't that, but of course it could be that something isn't working together or ???? 

 

Any ideas???

[OneStepAtATime]

Things to look into...

 

1.  Developmental vision issues.  You would need to seek an evaluation through a Developmental Optometrist.  Standard eye screenings usually do not catch these issues and Pediatricians are not trained.  Neither are a lot of Opthalmologists.  Also, keep in mind that a person can have perfect visual acuity (so could easily pass normal eye screenings) and still have developmental vision issues, sometimes really profound ones.

 

2.  Dysgraphia 

 

3.  Stealth dyslexia

[bluemongoose]

Thank you!

 

One of the calls I made was to a vision therapist. I was advised to do this from the pedi. I am not sure that is what you mean by a Developmental Optometrist? I'm guessing they are two different things. Do you think the vision therapist could still be helpful?

[OneStepAtATime]

Some vision therapists are Developmental Optometrists.  While not all are created equal, the ones listed on this site tend to have better training/credentials.  You might check to see if the person you were referred to is on that list.  I would also call their office to confirm what types of screenings they do, length of time for screenings, and types of vision therapy they are able to handle.

 

If your child does have a developmental vision issue it will depend on which type as to whether Vision Therapy will actually help (and how good the therapist is and how good their therapy program is and whether your child has comorbid issues that might make VT less helpful).

 

ETA:  Sorry.  I thought I had included the link.

 

Here it is:

https://www.covd.org/

Edited October 2, 2017 by OneStepAtATime

[bluemongoose]

Thank you! I'll check your link out.

[bluemongoose]

Awesome...the place IS on the list! Yay!

[OneStepAtATime]

:hurray:  :hurray:  :hurray:  :thumbup:

[PeterPan]

Also you need an OT eval for retained reflexes. Yes on the VT.

[bluemongoose]

Ok. I'll look into ot eval as well. Thanks!

[TheReader]

It could also be that the brain power he's using doing all of those things is just simply used up after a short time due to compensating for the poor working memory and slow processing speed. Or, those aspects could be making these things worse. I would try breaking things into several small chunks and letting him rest between (not necessarily rest, but play a quick board game or card game, let him have a lego building break, let him do something physical, have a snack, get outside, etc.; a brain break, not a body break) and see if that helps. 

 

But also yes to dysgraphia (which can be the physical cramping of his hand + ability transferring ideas/words to paper, so could cover the reversals perhaps) &/or dyslexia or stealth dyslexia. 

 

 

[OneStepAtATime]

I forgot to add, DD has low working memory and processing speed but she also has developmental vision issues that cause her eyes to fatigue within 20-25 minutes when working close up.  She has to move away from reading/workbooks/art work for a bit and do something where her eyes are not so strained.  Kind of a reset.  

 

I agree with above, try keeping things to very short segments, with something not using up those resources as a break in between.  

[bluemongoose]

Ok, in reading about dysgraphia and stealth dyslexia...I am now starting to worry about my second DS 8yo (nearly 9) too. This DS is horrible at spelling...awful!!! It is like he was never given any instruction in phonics even though we have spent years on it. He struggles with handwriting too. He doesn't have the problem with hand cramping, but his letters are all different sizes. Caps and non caps in random places. He also disregards margins and punctuation, but he does have spacing between words down pretty well. He didn't struggle to learn to read (at 4yo), but he often skips words and very infrequently flips letters or numbers. He hears sounds wrong and he has difficulty decoding words he doesn't know.  I have kind of put his issues on back of my brain since older DS's are much worse, but now I am starting to wonder if that is a mistake. This DS doesn't have the other issues my other DS has, so it is easier to just think he is ok. I think I was thinking that with maturity the spelling and handwriting may catch up, but now I think maybe because he is hard working and motivated and not struggling with EF and working memory and processing speed, that he is able to hide problems easier and go under the radar.  I am thinking I may take them both in for an eval. 

 

Also in reading about these issues...I was wrong in saying that my older DS is good at spelling. He does very well on spelling tests, but as I look back over his writing, he doesn't spell nearly as well in day to day writing. Difficulty reading music is another problem he struggles with, but plays very well by ear.

 

Many of the symptoms on the lists for dysgraphia and stealth dyslexia ring true, but present differently in my two boys. I know that doesn't necessarily mean that they have it, but that it is something I need to look into.

 

And yes, we take breaks here often....legos and trampoline are favorites.

 

Anyway, I'll just keep reading and thinking and chewing on this information while waiting for the call back from the VT place. 

[Storygirl]

About the 8 year old.... sometimes kids can learn to read with context clues, such as looking at the pictures and guessing what the word should be. DD12 was like this, because she has great comprehension ability. But her decoding ability is poor. High comprehension can mask poor decoding in a young reader. It sounds like this may be the case for your son. From what you write, there are red flags. I think it may be wise to have both of them tested.

 

I'm sure that's not what you'd like to hear. But when we know more, we can offer better help, so evaluations can be worth it.

[bluemongoose]

Storygirl...yup. I just talked it over with DH. He is agreeing we should just get them both evaluated. 

[OneStepAtATime]

Yes my kids have similar diagnosis situations but presented VASTLY differently.  Primarily because they have different underlying strengths which greatly affected how they dealt with weaknesses.

 

I agree, getting evaluations should help give you better answers and a more productive path.  

[bluemongoose]

Update: I don't have the physical copy yet (they are mailing it)...but today was the last day of the VT evaluation for both my boys. ODS does have some focusing issues that they will be addressing with VT. They said it was something that didn't occur until he was asked to do something for a longer duration than the few seconds that a regular eye dr would test for. This made sense based on how I see him when he is reading. 

 

Both boys tested very well in nearly everything except for speed and some reversals. They think they both have stealth dyslexia. Neither one showed their writing skills like they do at home...so they said they are not seeing the writing issues that I am seeing..so no dysgraphia. When doing the exercise where they cross out the letters and numbers that are flipped, it was very interesting to watch. My YDS scanned the whole page multiple times and went through it very slowly. He was double checking each letter against the same letter flipped another direction on the page. He still managed to get a few wrong, but by double checking he was able to correct a few too. They tested so very high on many aspects of the test that the tester said in PS they wouldn't qualify for anything, but that doesn't mean they aren't struggling with dyslexia...just that they are able to use their intelligence to cope. I brought up YDS spelling issues (he cannot spell at all!) and how they both miss math problems from reversals and such. I discussed how eventually as their work load increases wont it be a problem then. He said yes! It is just that the schools wouldn't do anything at this point. So they will be treating ODS for the focusing issues and giving me referrals to something to help with the Stealth Dyslexia. VT starts next week for ODS.