VaKim Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 DD applied for a job at Walmart last week and they called her this morning. They told her that she would need to bring her birth certificate, ss card, and one other form of id with her to the interview. She asked if she could bring her learner's permit, which, in VA is a photo id. Well, they told her that it would not be acceptable because it is not on the "list of homeland security acceptable forms of id." So far, no biggie. However, the stupidity comes in when they tell her that other acceptable forms would be a driver's license, voter registration card, or state photo id. She went ahead and applied for the voter reg card at the DMV. And get this - the only thing she had to show as id was her learner's permit! So, the thing that is an acceptable form of id can be obtained by showing an unacceptable form of id! What sense does that even make? The same would go for her driver's license. The only thing she has to bring in to get it is her learner's and take the road test. As for the state id, we were told that her learner's permit serves the same purpose. But apparently not when getting a job around here! Stupidity reigns supreme!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparklyUnicorn Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 Sing it. It's so stupid. Our DMV asks for 6 forms of ID. NO JOKE. It's the most ridiculous thing ever. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaKim Posted September 25, 2017 Author Share Posted September 25, 2017 Sing it. It's so stupid. Our DMV asks for 6 forms of ID. NO JOKE. It's the most ridiculous thing ever. Where in the world would you even get that many forms of id?? Idiocy!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinder Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 :blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzymom Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 It is insane. Our dmv doesn't accept the license they issued you as ID. Huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnnE-girl Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 I couldn't buy wine at Trader Joe's because I only had my state-issued firearm owners ID and not my driver's license. It has all the same information, taken from the driver's license database. I had also just sampled the wines I wanted to buy, but the cashier didn't trust the sample lady who had carded me years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaKim Posted September 25, 2017 Author Share Posted September 25, 2017 It is insane. Our dmv doesn't accept the license they issued you as ID. Huh? Just when I thought it couldn't get stupider! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TABmom Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 Oh, I remember when I moved to my current state. I went to the DMV and had with me my DL from the previous state, my SS card and my birth certificate. I handed them to the lady individually saying "here's my x, here's y" and at the end she said "now I need your marriage certificate" I laughed- I seriously thought she was joking in a "and now we need the blood of your firstborn" kind of way. She wasn't joking. And she was obviously irritated that I thought it was a joke. My DL and SS card both had my married name on them. She said they didn't know if my married name was my legal name without it. What?!? What if I hadn't changed my name? What about the fact that I already had more forms of ID with my married name than my maiden name?! What if I wasn't married but just wanted to change my last name for the fun of it?!? It was absolutely ridiculous. I had to make a second trip and stand in the ridiculously long line again to show my marriage certificate! It still pisses me off. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 It is insane. Our dmv doesn't accept the license they issued you as ID. Huh? Is it because of REAL ID? I know our state's DL laws changed recently because the new licenses are REAL ID-compliant. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelingChris Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 Id things are really nuts some times. I had to change my name legally a few years ago because almost all of my ids were first initial, middle name last name. But then this state made me use my first name- which I never use. So I ended up changing it to legally first initial, middle name, last name. Now all my ids are the same. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 Wow. Those are a lot of requirements for a job at Walmart. It's crazy!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 (edited) That's what you get when companies have to verify the immigration status, i.e. the employment eligibility, of every employee and risk fines if they make a mistake. It has nothing to do with Walmart being stupid. All employers must fill out an I-9 form, https://www.uscis.gov/i-9 and the list of acceptable documents is listed on page 3. There are exceptions for people under age 18; they can substitute a school ID. Note that a US passport serves to prove both identity and employment eligibility. Edited September 25, 2017 by regentrude 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparklyUnicorn Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 Where in the world would you even get that many forms of id?? Idiocy!! I know!! When we moved here...wowsers was that a scramble. They don't all have to be photo IDs, but still. You can use stuff like a credit card bill. I am getting my kids state IDs as kids to help them out because they require far fewer forms of ID for kids. We happen to have passports too so that helped, but geesh. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 (edited) Our DMV asks for 6 forms of ID. NO JOKE. It's the most ridiculous thing ever. Then they have not understood what the "6-points-proof" of ID means and need to be educated about the law. It does not mean you have to bring 6 pieces of ID. It means your different forms of ID have to add up to 6 points on the point scale; some documents count more points than others. You can satisfy the requirement with one or two. https://dmv.ny.gov/driver-license/prove-identity-age-permitlicense Edited September 25, 2017 by regentrude 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaKim Posted September 25, 2017 Author Share Posted September 25, 2017 Here, you cannot have a state id and also have a learner's or driver's permit. You have to turn in the one to get the other. So it stands to reason that the learner's should be as valid as a photo id, since it has all the exact same info on it. Just dumb crap because some idiot never bothered to think it through when they came up with the rules. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 Here, you cannot have a state id and also have a learner's or driver's permit. You have to turn in the one to get the other. So it stands to reason that the learner's should be as valid as a photo id, since it has all the exact same info on it. Just dumb crap because some idiot never bothered to think it through when they came up with the rules. If your learners permit has the following features, it qualifies as an item under class B: "ID card issued by federal, state or local government agencies or entities, provided it contains a photograph or information such as name, date of birth, gender, height, eye color, and address" I'd print the form and shove it under the HR rep's nose. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tree Frog Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 Oh, I remember when I moved to my current state. I went to the DMV and had with me my DL from the previous state, my SS card and my birth certificate. I handed them to the lady individually saying "here's my x, here's y" and at the end she said "now I need your marriage certificate" I laughed- I seriously thought she was joking in a "and now we need the blood of your firstborn" kind of way. She wasn't joking. And she was obviously irritated that I thought it was a joke. My DL and SS card both had my married name on them. She said they didn't know if my married name was my legal name without it. What?!? What if I hadn't changed my name? What about the fact that I already had more forms of ID with my married name than my maiden name?! What if I wasn't married but just wanted to change my last name for the fun of it?!? It was absolutely ridiculous. I had to make a second trip and stand in the ridiculously long line again to show my marriage certificate! It still pisses me off. I wonder if we live in the same state. We had this problem when we moved MIL here and wanted to get her a state ID. She had her former state driver's license, ss card (with her married name on it), and just about anything else, but they wouldn't accept it until she was able to provide her marriage license. We started panicking when they said it had to be the original. We had copies of it easily at hand, but after 60+ years of marriage, we really had to hunt to find the original. We thought having her son's birth certificate which listed both her married and maiden names would be sufficient, but they needed the original. I think we were back and forth to the DMV 3 or 4 times before we finally got her ID. It was very difficult for MIL, who had to be present, but had mobility issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparklyUnicorn Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 Then they have not understood what the "6-points-proof" of ID means and need to be educated about the law. It does not mean you have to bring 6 pieces of ID. It means your different forms of ID have to add up to 6 points on the point scale; some documents count more points than others. You can satisfy the requirement with one or two. https://dmv.ny.gov/driver-license/prove-identity-age-permitlicense Ah ok. Well then I must have interpreted that incorrectly myself. I brought six forms. LOL At the time we didn't even have internet access so I called to ask (on a dang pay phone) and the person told me six forms of ID. Glad to know it isn't actually that dumb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tree Frog Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 (edited) That's what you get when companies have to verify the immigration status, i.e. the employment eligibility, of every employee and risk fines if they make a mistake. It has nothing to do with Walmart being stupid. All employers must fill out an I-9 form, https://www.uscis.gov/i-9 and the list of acceptable documents is listed on page 3. There are exceptions for people under age 18; they can substitute a school ID. Note that a US passport serves to prove both identity and employment eligibility. My daughter is applying for a Naval medical scholarship. She filled out the old form electronically, but had problems because they updated the form. One of the changes they made was that her passport wasn't legal proof of US citizenship anymore. ETA: Just clarified with my dd. She said the issue was ds's and my passports were removed from her updated application as proof of citizenship because we were born in different countries to American parents. So the passport was fine for her proof, but she had to provide alternate proof for ds and I. It seems strange that any passport provided by the US wouldn't be accepted as proof of citizenship. Neither ds or I have secondary passports from our birth countries. Edited September 25, 2017 by wilrunner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 My daughter is applying for a Naval medical scholarship. She filled out the old form electronically, but had problems because they updated the form. One of the changes they made was that her passport wasn't legal proof of US citizenship anymore. I ran into this at a polling station a couple of years ago--someone was trying to use a passport as ID and it was not considered acceptable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparklyUnicorn Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 Ok why does anyone need ID at a polling station? I don't think it is good proof for a polling station because it doesn't have your address. I can see that. But not considered proof of citizenship? That's insane. It's quite a process to get one and they absolutely do verify if you are a citizen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 My daughter is applying for a Naval medical scholarship. She filled out the old form electronically, but had problems because they updated the form. One of the changes they made was that her passport wasn't legal proof of US citizenship anymore. My husband once renewed his US passport at the consulate in Hong Kong. When I went to pick it up for him, they called me up to the counter and said, 'Did you know that your husband had two children in Texas and that he owes child support?' An interesting moment. And of course not true - someone with a similar set of data had caused alarm bells to ring about Husband. Husband was concerned that he might be stopped at borders if this remained on his record (they couldn't remove it as the information had just been rated 'not likely' rather than 'false'). They suggested that in addition to carrying his US passport he also carry his UK passport. Hmmmm...... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparklyUnicorn Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 My husband once renewed his US passport at the consulate in Hong Kong. When I went to pick it up for him, they called me up to the counter and said, 'Did you know that your husband had two children in Texas and that he owes child support?' An interesting moment. And of course not true - someone with a similar set of data had caused alarm bells to ring about Husband. Husband was concerned that he might be stopped at borders if this remained on his record (they couldn't remove it as the information had just been rated 'not likely' rather than 'false'). They suggested that in addition to carrying his US passport he also carry his UK passport. Hmmmm...... :lol: OMG..that must have been a VERY crazy moment. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheres Toto Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 (edited) DD applied for a job at Walmart last week and they called her this morning. They told her that she would need to bring her birth certificate, ss card, and one other form of id with her to the interview. She asked if she could bring her learner's permit, which, in VA is a photo id. Well, they told her that it would not be acceptable because it is not on the "list of homeland security acceptable forms of id." So far, no biggie. However, the stupidity comes in when they tell her that other acceptable forms would be a driver's license, voter registration card, or state photo id. She went ahead and applied for the voter reg card at the DMV. And get this - the only thing she had to show as id was her learner's permit! So, the thing that is an acceptable form of id can be obtained by showing an unacceptable form of id! What sense does that even make? The same would go for her driver's license. The only thing she has to bring in to get it is her learner's and take the road test. As for the state id, we were told that her learner's permit serves the same purpose. But apparently not when getting a job around here! Stupidity reigns supreme!! I'm surprised the permit doesn't serve as a "state issued id". Sing it. It's so stupid. Our DMV asks for 6 forms of ID. NO JOKE. It's the most ridiculous thing ever. Then they have not understood what the "6-points-proof" of ID means and need to be educated about the law. It does not mean you have to bring 6 pieces of ID. It means your different forms of ID have to add up to 6 points on the point scale; some documents count more points than others. You can satisfy the requirement with one or two. https://dmv.ny.gov/driver-license/prove-identity-age-permitlicense This. BUT, in those 6 points must be proof of age, identification, address and any name changes. So, I always have to bring my birth certificate, divorce papers, marriage license, in addition to the proof of address and age. My current drivers license works because it's an upgraded license but the years they switched I had to bring alternate forms of proof of age, address and identity. It was not easy since all our utilities are in DH's name, including the mortgage. ETA: It was easier for me to get a passport than it was to get a NJ drivers license. I was then able to use the passport as a major piece of id. Edited September 25, 2017 by Where's Toto? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaKim Posted September 25, 2017 Author Share Posted September 25, 2017 If your learners permit has the following features, it qualifies as an item under class B: "ID card issued by federal, state or local government agencies or entities, provided it contains a photograph or information such as name, date of birth, gender, height, eye color, and address" I'd print the form and shove it under the HR rep's nose. That is what I thought too. Her learner's has her photo (plus one in that hologram thingy at the bottom), sex, height, eye color, birth date, and address. Just like our driver's permits do. But since the homeland security form doesn't specifically say "learner's permit," they won't accept it. Keep in mind the people around here aren't the brightest bunch to begin with. I tried googling to see if a VA learner's would serve as a state issued id by Homeland Security standards, but couldn't find anything. But you are right. It really should be acceptable. Wish I knew somewhere else to go about this. Just because it is annoying and inconvenient for so many people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 (edited) It's probably for the I9. (Proof that you are legally allowed to work in the USA.) Not all state learner's permits have a photo on them, so that would be why it's not on the list for the I9. Edited September 25, 2017 by SKL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 Does she have a passport? That should work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 My daughter is applying for a Naval medical scholarship. She filled out the old form electronically, but had problems because they updated the form. One of the changes they made was that her passport wasn't legal proof of US citizenship anymore. That is ridiculous. It is for pretty much anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 Oh, I remember when I moved to my current state. I went to the DMV and had with me my DL from the previous state, my SS card and my birth certificate. I handed them to the lady individually saying "here's my x, here's y" and at the end she said "now I need your marriage certificate" I laughed- I seriously thought she was joking in a "and now we need the blood of your firstborn" kind of way. She wasn't joking. And she was obviously irritated that I thought it was a joke. My DL and SS card both had my married name on them. She said they didn't know if my married name was my legal name without it. What?!? What if I hadn't changed my name? What about the fact that I already had more forms of ID with my married name than my maiden name?! What if I wasn't married but just wanted to change my last name for the fun of it?!? It was absolutely ridiculous. I had to make a second trip and stand in the ridiculously long line again to show my marriage certificate! It still pisses me off. They wanted to tie your birth certificate to your current IDs. Don't feel bad. My two daughters have each had 3 birth certificates and 2 name changes. Getting a visa to travel was really interesting. It will be interesting to see what is required for my kids' DLs. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaKim Posted September 25, 2017 Author Share Posted September 25, 2017 Does she have a passport? That should work. No. None of our family has ever been out of the country and probably never will be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaKim Posted September 25, 2017 Author Share Posted September 25, 2017 It's probably for the I9. (Proof that you are legally allowed to work in the USA.) Not all state learner's permits have a photo on them, so that would be why it's not on the list for the I9. Right. But then, shouldn't ours in VA fall under the category of a state issued photo id, since it does have all the info on it and a photo? Is it just a matter of the people doing the hiring being ignorant? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 (edited) Right. But then, shouldn't ours in VA fall under the category of a state issued photo id, since it does have all the info on it and a photo? Is it just a matter of the people doing the hiring being ignorant? Yes, I think the bolded may be the case. The permit is issued by the state, has a photo, and has the info. It should qualify as item #2 from list B. I would request to talk to the HR manager and ask for an explanation why the permit is rejected. And again, if the student is under 18, the rules are less stringent! Edited September 25, 2017 by regentrude 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 Ok why does anyone need ID at a polling station? I don't think it is good proof for a polling station because it doesn't have your address. I can see that. But not considered proof of citizenship? That's insane. It's quite a process to get one and they absolutely do verify if you are a citizen. The way I understand it, different agencies issue passports vs. Certificates of Citizenship. I think someone told me that some people can get a US passport if they are not US citizens. I never verified that though. However, a certificate of US birth proves citizenship. Then you just have to satisfy them that you are the person on the birth certificate. :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 The way I understand it, different agencies issue passports vs. Certificates of Citizenship. I think someone told me that some people can get a US passport if they are not US citizens. I never verified that though. However, a certificate of US birth proves citizenship. Then you just have to satisfy them that you are the person on the birth certificate. :p But you can be a citizen without being born in the US. And without having gone through the naturalization process. If parents of a minor are naturalized citizens, the children acquire citizenship through their parents and have no documentation of their own. They get a passport. that's it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaKim Posted September 25, 2017 Author Share Posted September 25, 2017 Yes, I think the bolded may be the case. The permit is issued by the state, has a photo, and has the info. It should qualify as item #2 from list B. I would request to talk to the HR manager and ask for an explanation why the permit is rejected. And again, if the student is under 18, the rules are less stringent! She is almost 19. I am afraid, the way things work around here, that questioning them will just make them mad and then they will be sure not to hire her. We have a lot of very petty, immature, unprofessional people around here in places of authority, unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 But you can be a citizen without being born in the US. And without having gone through the naturalization process. If parents of a minor are naturalized citizens, the children acquire citizenship through their parents and have no documentation of their own. They get a passport. that's it. To the 1st - of course, but I thought I was talking to a person whose kid was born here. To the 2nd / 3rd, I am unaware of those details. Do the kids in that case not receive a Certificate of Citizenship? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 (edited) But you can be a citizen without being born in the US. And without having gone through the naturalization process. If parents of a minor are naturalized citizens, the children acquire citizenship through their parents and have no documentation of their own. They get a passport. that's it. Actually they get a consular report of birth abroad (that may not be the exact title of the document, but several of my siblings have these.) ETA found a link to information: https://travel.state.gov/content/passports/en/abroad/events-and-records/birth.html Edited September 25, 2017 by maize Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nevergiveup Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 My son was 15 and already had his business license to sell flowers at the Farmer's Market--this is issued from our State. He went to the Bureau of Motor Vehicles to try to get his learner's permit to drive and they didn't think they could accept that as proof of ID. I gave them the stink eye and said if it was good enough for the STATE it should count as ID for his learner's permit. They accepted it but had to ask someone higher up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 Actually they get a consular report of birth abroad (that may not be the exact title of the document, but several of my siblings have these.) https://travel.state.gov/content/passports/en/abroad/events-and-records/birth.html That is not the scenario I was talking about. I was talking about parents being naturalized and their already born children acquiring citizenship through that process, not though birth to a parent who is a citizen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 :lol: OMG..that must have been a VERY crazy moment. Yes. The counter was actually in the waiting room. So there I was, having a conversation about my husband's supposed other family, with the whole waiting room listening. I imagined them sitting there thinking, 'Poor dupe'. I'd already known him for at least ten years by then, so I had no doubts, but I could feel all those eyes on my back. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 Do the kids in that case not receive a Certificate of Citizenship? Not automatically. It is possible to apply for a certificate of citizenship. Most parents just apply for a passport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 That is not the scenario I was talking about. I was talking about parents being naturalized and their already born children acquiring citizenship through that process, not though birth to a parent who is a citizen. Ah, I see. I misunderstood. The kids don't get their own naturalization papers of some kind then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparklyUnicorn Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 Yes. The counter was actually in the waiting room. So there I was, having a conversation about my husband's supposed other family, with the whole waiting room listening. I imagined them sitting there thinking, 'Poor dupe'. I'd already known him for at least ten years by then, so I had no doubts, but I could feel all those eyes on my back. Eh well, now you have a funny story to tell. :laugh: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
footballmom Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 Did they tell her specifically to bring those documents or are those the ones that you chose from the list provided with the I9...because, yeah, it isn't legal to tell someone WHICH of the I9 forms of id to bring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaKim Posted September 25, 2017 Author Share Posted September 25, 2017 Did they tell her specifically to bring those documents or are those the ones that you chose from the list provided with the I9...because, yeah, it isn't legal to tell someone WHICH of the I9 forms of id to bring. Yeah, she told them she had a birth certificate and ss card, then they told her the list of other things to choose from in addition to one of those. We went through this with her sister when she got a job, and just assumed that now that they had their learner's permits, that would fulfill the other requirement for the state issued photo id. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 Not automatically. It is possible to apply for a certificate of citizenship. Most parents just apply for a passport. Ah, I see. In the international adoption community, it has been recommended that a CoC be ordered even if the child has a passport, because there are some situations where the passport is not sufficient to prove citizenship. I'm not the expert on that though. Personally, I would rather have both just in case. :) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 Ah, I see. I misunderstood. The kids don't get their own naturalization papers of some kind then? not unless parents specifically apply for them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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