3 ladybugs Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 My mom has been through the ringer with this sale of her house. She is still jumping through things. Anyway, she is considering getting a condo that says it is 2 bedroom in the listing, however the second bedroom has an en-suite, closet but NO windows. It is priced at the price of a 2 bedroom for the area. I told my mom to run as laws could change and she could end up with a HUGE 1 bedroom condo. The bedroom is not on an exterior wall so NO chance of a window in the future. So what do you think? Am I crazy for thinking this isn't a good investment (even though it would work for her needs) or would you caution your parent against it too? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 Even if having a bedroom without a window is legal, many people wouldn't want it because I think most people expect their bedrooms to have a window, both for safety and for the light it provides. I would be very concerned about future resale. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hjffkj Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 A room with no windows is not a bedroom in my mind so I would find it a terrible investment to pay the 2 bedroom price for a 1 bedroom place 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 Quick question -- Is your mom positive that the condo is a legal 2 bedroom? I think she should verify that before she even considers purchasing it. It doesn't seem right to me that a room without a window can legally be called a bedroom. 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bethben Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 Where I used to live, a bedroom had to have a window and a closet to be considered a legal bedroom. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3 ladybugs Posted September 25, 2017 Author Share Posted September 25, 2017 Quick question -- Is your mom positive that the condo is a legal 2 bedroom? I think she should verify that before she even considers purchasing it. It doesn't seem right to me that a room without a window can legally be called a bedroom. I just looked it up. It can be called on in Florida. Strange as it seems. She just put an offer on another place that she should hear back today on (that has windows in both bedrooms) so hopefully she will get that. However she really likes this other place because she can look at the cruise ships and it has some really nice common areas. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 here, it couldn't legally be listed as a bedroom - they must have a window that opens, LARGE enough for egress in a fire. I wouldn't buy it. I wouldn't even pursue it. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 I am very fond of windows for natural lighting and air circulation so I won’t buy a condo without windows for rooms other than the bathrooms. The second condo I lived in had small bathroom windows too but not my childhood home or this current condo. Hope she gets the other one. A condo with a view and nice common areas does make living in a condo more pleasant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 (edited) I just looked it up. It can be called on in Florida. Strange as it seems. She just put an offer on another place that she should hear back today on (that has windows in both bedrooms) so hopefully she will get that. However she really likes this other place because she can look at the cruise ships and it has some really nice common areas. Realistically, unless she plans to resell the place quickly, she should choose the one that she likes best. Which one has better amenities? Which one is more convenient to shopping, friends, and family? And if the view is important to her, that can mean a lot, too. If no one needs to sleep in the second bedroom every night, maybe the lack of a window won't bother her at all -- maybe she will end up using it as a big walk-in closet or as a den for watching television. Edited to add: Is the no-window thing common in that condo complex? Have you looked at current and sold listings to see if the other second bedrooms have no windows, or if it's only in certain units due to the layout of the buildings? If it's only in certain units, the ones without the window should sell for less money than those with a more conventional layout. Edited September 25, 2017 by Catwoman 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
displace Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 http://www.floridabuilding.org/fbc/thecode/2010_Code_Development/Post_FBC/2012_SUPPLEMENT_TO_THE_FLORIDA_BUILDING_CODE.htm According to this website, it must have an emergency means of egress to the outside (and actually must be on an exterior wall). Plus other requirements. I'd pay as if it were a one bedroom. Once an inspector comes in, it will have to be relabeled anyway. Unless condos are different than this code? It sounds super wrong. And, I'd express skepticism in a realtor that was trying to convince me of something wrong. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinder Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 Even if it was legal to call that a bedroom I wouldn't do it. I gotta have windows! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3 ladybugs Posted September 25, 2017 Author Share Posted September 25, 2017 You can walk between both condos. They are very close to one another. So on that hand they are about equal. The condo without windows is in building built in 2007, so most of the units were rentals. Just the nature of the downturn in the housing market. So people can't get normal mortgages with them. You have to put down 25% not just 20%. So it has that going against it. Most of the units are odd. There was only two floor plans that are really odd where I could see people calling them 2 bedrooms and not actually be 2 bedrooms. It is odd, one of them on the website it says that it is 2 bedroom 2.5 bath. Then you click on it and it says that the second "bedroom" is relaxing area. Odd! The area is getting hot now again though. Seriously in the last year she has been priced out of a couple complexes that she could afford just a year ago. The unit she is waiting on finding out if it is accepted or not has no balcony. Who thought having no balcony is right in Florida? At least it is better then no window in the second bedroom! What do you think the discount on a unit that is 1 bedroom but has a large (non bedroom) and an office (separate) should be since no one here thinks it should be a bedroom? 10% under 2 bedrooms in the area? 25%? Other? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 (edited) You can walk between both condos. They are very close to one another. So on that hand they are about equal. The condo without windows is in building built in 2007, so most of the units were rentals. Just the nature of the downturn in the housing market. So people can't get normal mortgages with them. You have to put down 25% not just 20%. So it has that going against it. Most of the units are odd. There was only two floor plans that are really odd where I could see people calling them 2 bedrooms and not actually be 2 bedrooms. It is odd, one of them on the website it says that it is 2 bedroom 2.5 bath. Then you click on it and it says that the second "bedroom" is relaxing area. Odd! The area is getting hot now again though. Seriously in the last year she has been priced out of a couple complexes that she could afford just a year ago. The unit she is waiting on finding out if it is accepted or not has no balcony. Who thought having no balcony is right in Florida? At least it is better then no window in the second bedroom! What do you think the discount on a unit that is 1 bedroom but has a large (non bedroom) and an office (separate) should be since no one here thinks it should be a bedroom? 10% under 2 bedrooms in the area? 25%? Other? If I had to choose, I'd pick the unit with the balcony over the one that had a window in the second bedroom if no one was going to be sleeping in that room every night. I would hate a condo in Florida that didn't have a balcony. Edited September 25, 2017 by Catwoman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol in Cal. Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 Out here condos usually show a lot less appreciation than homes, and are not considered a good investment--more of a desperation move to get a toe hold into the ridiculous real estate market. Also, they are less valuable in a complex that has a high proportion of renters. Big red flags on this play, if it were here. But you need to talk with someone who knows the local market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 Did the previous owners did some sort of renovation and tried to make two bedrooms out of one large one? I'm trying to picture this in my head... It does sound weird. I'm picturing a little den that just happens to have a closet, so they're trying to pass it off as a bedroom. It sounds kind of depressing. But the other unit doesn't have a balcony, so there's a trade-off. Personally, I would probably end up passing on both units and waiting for a condo with a conventional layout and a balcony. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettyandbob Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 That would not be legal to list as a 2 bedroom where I live. I would not pay for it as a 2 bedroom. It could be listed as a 1 bedroom plus den, the comps would be lower and it would sell for lower. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 I didn't realize it had a closet. I do like the idea of a balcony. That would be a huge seller for me, personally. Especially in Florida, watching the ships! If the other condo doesn't come through, I'd consider offering what I thought was a reasonable price for a one bedroom plus den/office. The worst that could happen is they say no or counteroffer. I guarantee you probably everyone has walked in that second 'bedroom' and thought or said aloud, "there's no window!" I agree! Every single person noticed the lack of a window. It's a glaring thing. Bedrooms have windows. That's going to lower the value of that condo. And now I want to go sit on my balcony and watch the ships. Except... no balcony. No ocean. No ships. Darn it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3 ladybugs Posted September 25, 2017 Author Share Posted September 25, 2017 This is the floorplan. Now no one go out there and purchase these and drive up the price! That is REALLY unfair to my mom! http://www.theplacechannelside.com/_pdf/ThePlace_PlanD.pdf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3 ladybugs Posted September 25, 2017 Author Share Posted September 25, 2017 Out here condos usually show a lot less appreciation than homes, and are not considered a good investment--more of a desperation move to get a toe hold into the ridiculous real estate market. Also, they are less valuable in a complex that has a high proportion of renters. Big red flags on this play, if it were here. But you need to talk with someone who knows the local market. She is going to an urban environment. Condos are the only thing existing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettyandbob Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 In my jurisdiction the reason you can't call a room without a window a bedroom is bedrooms must have an emergency exit. So the window also needs to be a certain size and accessible to an occupant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 She is going to an urban environment. Condos are the only thing existing. Also, if your mom lives alone and doesn't want the maintenance or the potential isolation of a freestanding home, a condo would be her best option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 This is the floorplan. Now no one go out there and purchase these and drive up the price! That is REALLY unfair to my mom! http://www.theplacechannelside.com/_pdf/ThePlace_PlanD.pdf Ok, so they're not really calling it a bedroom. They label it "relax," so it's technically a one bedroom with a den, right? The floor plan shows the room being furnished as a TV room with a sofa, not with a bed. It seems like the realtor is pulling a fast one by calling it a 2-bedroom. But the layout looks nice and the balcony is spacious. Now that I have seen the layout, I wouldn't give up that balcony for a second bedroom with a window. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanny Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 You are not crazy. Your mother would be crazy, to pay the same price for that particular Condo that she would pay for a true 2 B.R. condo. She should continue looking... Don't let her buy that unit unless there is a HUGE discount in the price, compared to actual 2 B.R. units. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxbridgeacademy Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 Realistically, unless she plans to resell the place quickly, she should choose the one that she likes best. Which one has better amenities? Which one is more convenient to shopping, friends, and family? And if the view is important to her, that can mean a lot, too. If no one needs to sleep in the second bedroom every night, maybe the lack of a window won't bother her at all -- maybe she will end up using it as a big walk-in closet or as a den for watching television. Edited to add: Is the no-window thing common in that condo complex? Have you looked at current and sold listings to see if the other second bedrooms have no windows, or if it's only in certain units due to the layout of the buildings? If it's only in certain units, the ones without the window should sell for less money than those with a more conventional layout. :iagree: Unless she's looking to live there only a short time or needs to make money on it then she should get the place she would most enjoy. As for Comps, those will be other condos in the complex. Check zillow, it'll have all the properties sold in the last few years, many with pictures so you can see condition and size as well as windows. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 (edited) I just looked at the floor plan again and noticed more details. I like the master bath with both a walk-in shower and a tub, and I love the cute little office area. There is also a lot of closet space in the unit, which can be hard to find in a condo. I also like it that the main living area is so open and that it looks out onto the balcony. I also love it that it has the big eating/cooking island in the kitchen area, plus it has the separate dining area. I think the square footage is used very well. The more I think about it, the more I think your mom should consider it, provided the price and condition are comparable to similar units. Now that I see that the second bedroom is actually a tv room, I'm feeling much better about the lack of a window in there. :) Edited September 25, 2017 by Catwoman 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 How wide are the room doors? If your mom might need a walker in the future, how difficult would it be going from kitchen/living room area to bedroom/bathroom? A single friend’s home has a similar layout so she rented out the front bedroom (what would be the no window bedroom in your floor plan). There is a toilet near her kitchen/living room area though so no one needs to go a longer distance to the ensuite bathrooms if they just need to use the toilet. My husband’s grandmother is at the age where proximity to the toilet is a need. For my parents going from kitchen to toilet is a longer walk but they are usually in the living room which has a spare bathroom next to it. My condo’s floor plan is very popular with elderly people because it is an open floor plan and wheelchair accessible to all rooms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3 ladybugs Posted September 25, 2017 Author Share Posted September 25, 2017 Almost nothing has sold in that complex recently. My step father has had 2 strokes (about 15 years apart) so being on one level is VERY important to her, for him. That is one of the reasons they are moving to a condo. My mom HATES long straight hallways. My #1 pick for her has that and she doesn't like that aspect of it. She likes the space so she can do many things with it. She could have an office (step dad often works from home), sewing space (she often makes costumes for parades and such), guest room (I live in NJ, grandma is in WA state) so that is all good. She also doesn't have the laundry in the kitchen and it is a separate room. She said that she would take one wall of the "relax" area and make it look like a beach or something with a mural and lighting. So that could be good I guess. And more room would be good for me personally when I come to visit with my 2-4 children. LOL I am her only child... thankfully so I don't have to compete for space with siblings. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 I looked at the units for sale. I had to see actual pictures. I'm nosey, so sue me. 😜 The outside space is beautiful! If that's super important for her, go for it. It would be very important for me, as well. The inside with the angles... 😳 My skin tingled and I got all nervous in my stomach just looking at those angles. My word. I'd have to up the meds, for sure, if I lived there. But most people aren't nutty like I am, and if she's not bothered, again, go for it. It looks like the prices are all within just a few thousand for each condo with that plan, so they must be selling well at that price, even with a windowless second 'bedroom' or 'relax' room. So are you saying you don't want that condo for your birthday? ;) Because I just noticed that today is your birthday... HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!!!! :hurray: :party: :party: :party: If you had a condo in Tampa, you could be eating birthday cake on your luxurious balcony right now. :) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3 ladybugs Posted September 25, 2017 Author Share Posted September 25, 2017 (edited) So are you saying you don't want that condo for your birthday? ;) Because I just noticed that today is your birthday... HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!!!! :hurray: :party: :party: :party: If you had a condo in Tampa, you could be eating birthday cake on your luxurious balcony right now. :) Don't forget the part about looking at cruise ships. http://www.porttampawebcam.com/ HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!! Edited September 25, 2017 by 3 ladybugs 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3 ladybugs Posted September 25, 2017 Author Share Posted September 25, 2017 Ty! :hurray: That's how close the ships are? No wonder she likes that area! I'd love to sit out there and ship-watch! Umm... no they would be closer. Think across a parking lot is the ships. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okra Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 Personally, I would go for it. It looks cute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 Umm... no they would be closer. Think across a parking lot is the ships. Wow, that is so cool! It looks like a lovely complex (I snooped at some photos online, too!) I hope your mom loves it there if she gets one of the condos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3 ladybugs Posted September 25, 2017 Author Share Posted September 25, 2017 (edited) It is 5 pm and she has heard nothing on the place she put an offer on (without the balcony) so that doesn't sound good. They said they would find out today. :( ETA She is definitely going somewhere down there. Now if she will be able to see the boats clearly or not is still anyone's guess. Edited September 25, 2017 by 3 ladybugs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bambam Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 I'd advise anyone against it. That isn't a 2-bedroom condo. That is a 1-bedroom condo with attached cave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 It is 5 pm and she has heard nothing on the place she put an offer on (without the balcony) so that doesn't sound good. They said they would find out today. :( ETA She is definitely going somewhere down there. Now if she will be able to see the boats clearly or not is still anyone's guess. That settles it. She needs the one with the balcony and the view. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
displace Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 After seeing the layout, it looks like a 1 bed with 2 offices/dens. Idk about pricing, but shouldn't a realtor be able to say, pay $X per sq ft, or $X for a one bedroom? Even if that complex hasn't sold anything recently, there are other condos in the general area. She would likely be in an evac zone during hurricanes, and Tampa has a bit of flooding with storms, so if she's not from the area just have her research it a bit before committing. WRT a balcony: I'd prefer it but summer temps of 90 degrees for 9 months of the year would prevent much use. You could have container gardens though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3 ladybugs Posted September 25, 2017 Author Share Posted September 25, 2017 LOL she is moving from the beach where she has lived for the last 13 years. She is used to dealing with evacuations. Though after Irma, she would take being over 10 feet in elevation ANY day! Her house was not damaged in Irma... unless you count the BBQ that my step father left out! Men! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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