Talking about free range parenting...

[Elizabeth86]

I know we were discussing this earlier and I wanted you all to comment on this situation.

 

As I said before Im a bit of a helicopter mom raised by helicopter parents lol. I am not bothered a bit by other peoples choice to free range parent though.

 

There is this teenager that lives in my area (not sure of his age exactly). He is in the habit of riding his bike up and down the road by our house. In not talking a subdivision/neighborhood. I'm talking main road here. I think the speed limit is 45. There are coal trucks that drive through here all the time. I see bicyclist riding through here a lot kf times keeping up with traffic ish ans wearing helmets. This kid is on a regular bike and doesnt go super fast. If you get behind him he gets way over to the very edge of the road like he wants you to pass and when you dont (im not passing, share the road, treat a bike like a car kinda thing)he keeps turning around the whole time looking behind him. I just know he is going to wreck looking behind him so much. He doesnt wear a helmet. I just know a coal truck is going to flatten him. Would you allow your teenage son to do this? It just seems like a risky thing for anyone to do kid or adult.

 

For the record my 3 year old cousin was killed by a car. My grandma got hit by a car crossing a street, she lived though. My brother was killed in a car accident. My uncle was in a car accident that changed his mental capacity to that of a child. I have countless other relatives to be killed and injured in and by vehicles while I was growung up, so I have always been terrified of things like this.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I think due to what happened to your family members you are extra sensitive about this.  I don't think he is being particularly crazy though.

 

My teen sticks to sidewalks (I think).  I tell him to anyway.  I live in a city with fairly decent amounts of traffic so yeah I worry.  But I dunno..I feel bad to say no you can't ride your bike anywhere around here. 

 

I wouldn't say I'm free range though.

 

 

[MedicMom]

I would make my kid wear a helmet, but other than that, it sounds like he's being safe. He gets way over to the side of the road to let someone pass. It doesn't sound like he's getting in the way of traffic. I don't know why you won't slowly pass him.

 

I highly doubt any bicyclists are keeping up with 45 mph traffic.

 

You sound overly concerned about vehicles. I have seen thousands of car accidents; many of them very bad with fatalities and terrible injuries.(mostly, everyone is usually fine) I have lost family members and good friends to car wrecks. I would still let my teenage child ride a bike on a road like that, though with a helmet.

[HomeAgain]

Before I knew exactly the route, I allowed my teen son to bike 5-6 miles down narrow Italian roads with fast cars.

 

After I knew, I allowed my teen son to ride 5-6 miles down narrow Italian roads with fast cars.  The difference being he did wear a helmet, had a light, and the cars were used to bikes.

 

But honestly, by the teen years there is very little allowed/not allowed.  There's a lot of guidance, a lot of "if you're going to do this, let's figure out a way to do it safely", and teaching how to work within parameters.  I'm raising an adult.  I'm not springing adulthood on him when he turns 18.

 

BTW, why wouldn't you pass him?  You treat a bike like a car.  If he is going slower on his lane, you PASS.  You don't creep behind and skeeve him out.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I do insist on a helmet.  BUT there was a period of time where I was trying to find one that fit his large noggin so he did go out a few times without one. 

[SparklyUnicorn]

Before I knew exactly the route, I allowed my teen son to bike 5-6 miles down narrow Italian roads with fast cars.

 

After I knew, I allowed my teen son to ride 5-6 miles down narrow Italian roads with fast cars.  The difference being he did wear a helmet, had a light, and the cars were used to bikes.

 

But honestly, by the teen years there is very little allowed/not allowed.  There's a lot of guidance, a lot of "if you're going to do this, let's figure out a way to do it safely", and teaching how to work within parameters.  I'm raising an adult.  I'm not springing adulthood on him when he turns 18.

 

BTW, why wouldn't you pass him?  You treat a bike like a car.  If he is going slower on his lane, you PASS.  You don't creep behind and skeeve him out.

 

That's how I think of it.  As much as I'd like to wrap him in bubble wrap and never let him leave the house alone, that's not really serving him well for the very near future. 

[Elizabeth86]

Before I knew exactly the route, I allowed my teen son to bike 5-6 miles down narrow Italian roads with fast cars.

 

After I knew, I allowed my teen son to ride 5-6 miles down narrow Italian roads with fast cars. The difference being he did wear a helmet, had a light, and the cars were used to bikes.

 

But honestly, by the teen years there is very little allowed/not allowed. There's a lot of guidance, a lot of "if you're going to do this, let's figure out a way to do it safely", and teaching how to work within parameters. I'm raising an adult. I'm not springing adulthood on him when he turns 18.

 

BTW, why wouldn't you pass him? You treat a bike like a car. If he is going slower on his lane, you PASS. You don't creep behind and skeeve him out.

Because there isnt a passing lane. It is illegal to pass on two solid yellow lines. Getting on the edge of the road is not the same as getting off the road. If he came back over while I was passing him and I killed/injured him I am sure I would be responsible because it would not be legal for me to pass him there.

[Carrie12345]

I consider myself free-range-adjacent, and I wouldn't be thrilled with any of my teens doing that... but it's a foreign concept to me, so I don't have a fair opinion.  My neighborhood is 25mph roads with no through traffic.  On the rare occasion that I come across a cyclist on other roads, I pass them carefully.

[Bambam]

I always pass slow bikers once it is safe to do so. I pass slow cars when it is safe to do so. 

 

I'd be nervous riding a bike with a car just slowly trailing me if several occasions had passes when they could have safely and easily passed me - I'd think they were up to no good. I'd keep looking behind me wondering what I should do now. 

 

We have plenty of bikers here - helmeted though - riding on semi-fast roads, hilly, curvy, and just 2 lanes with no shoulder.  The drivers just understand there may be a car just over the hill or around the curve and make allowance - or at least I do and have and am training my teen drivers to do the same. That is all I have control over. 

[Carrie12345]

Because there isnt a passing lane. It is illegal to pass on two solid yellow lines. Getting on the edge of the road is not the same as getting off the road. If he came back over while I was passing him and I killed/injured him I am sure I would be responsible because it would not be legal for me to pass him there.

 

I know it's hard to say without seeing the road, but there are valid reasons to go slightly over the solid yellow lines.  What if an animal or debris were sitting on the side?  What if a group of people were walking there? What if a truck was broken down on the side of the road?  I'm guessing you wouldn't just stay there.

 

http://www.ncsl.org/research/transportation/safely-passing-bicyclists.aspx

[HomeAgain]

Because there isnt a passing lane. It is illegal to pass on two solid yellow lines. Getting on the edge of the road is not the same as getting off the road. If he came back over while I was passing him and I killed/injured him I am sure I would be responsible because it would not be legal for me to pass him there.

 

It is illegal to pass a car, not a bike.

 

Here's a handy chart.  Some states require a buffer of 2-3 feet, allowing you to move toward the middle of those solid lines for protection. http://www.ncsl.org/research/transportation/safely-passing-bicyclists.aspx

 

You're actually putting him more at risk, which is why he continues to look behind him, by not being a diligent motorist.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Because there isnt a passing lane. It is illegal to pass on two solid yellow lines. Getting on the edge of the road is not the same as getting off the road. If he came back over while I was passing him and I killed/injured him I am sure I would be responsible because it would not be legal for me to pass him there.

 

I don't know for sure, but I think you can pass him so long as you give him plenty of space.  I don't think the whole "no passing lane" thing applies.  Maybe someone who knows for sure can chime in (although I imagine this varies from state to state).

 

Here, only people under 14 are required by law to wear a helmet.  It's a good idea IMO, but he probably isn't breaking any laws.

 

If I were on a bike in that case, I'd prefer you pass me out. I would feel weird about you following me. I can't drive as fast as a car for one thing.

[Elizabeth86]

I always pass slow bikers once it is safe to do so. I pass slow cars when it is safe to do so.

 

So, my question is, if I cannot pass a car here can I pass the bike? I figured if passing a car were illegal passing a bike would be illegal too. I have to admit I dont know the law regarding bicycles too well.

[JFSinIL]

I would slowly pass him.   If the speed limit is 45mph and you slow down yourself rather than pass him (no way he can do 45mph on a bike!!) then the next truck that comes up behind YOU as you are NOT passing the bike may well rear-end YOU. Go over those yellow lines a tad to pass the slow bike.  You'd go over them to safely pass a dude changing a flat tire, or a cop partially blocking your lane as he wrote a ticket to a speedster, correct? 

 

My maternal grandpa died in a car crash.  I almost died in a car crash (still getting repair work done internally over three years later).  I would pass the teen.

Edited September 25, 2017 by JFSinIL

[Elizabeth86]

Ok so I thought you had to treat a bike like a car I didnt know. As far as me freaking him out though...He is in front of coal trucks with them right on his rear so whatever, its not like Im the only person to ever drive slowly behind him before he decides to get off the road.

[Elizabeth86]

I don't know for sure, but I think you can pass him so long as you give him plenty of space. I don't think the whole "no passing lane" thing applies. Maybe someone who knows for sure can chime in (although I imagine this varies from state to state).

 

Here, only people under 14 are required by law to wear a helmet. It's a good idea IMO, but he probably isn't breaking any laws.

 

If I were on a bike in that case, I'd prefer you pass me out. I would feel weird about you following me. I can't drive as fast as a car for one thing.

Nm Edited September 25, 2017 by Elizabeth86

[HomeAgain]

I know as far as motorcycles go and I assume bike riders too, it is illegal for adults notvto wear a helmet.

 

You know the best part of having a teen?  You get to pore over the DMV book and learn every minute detail of what they need to do on the road as they study for their license.  And then argue incessantly about other details when they want to do something. :lol:

[Carrie12345]

So, my question is, if I cannot pass a car here can I pass the bike? I figured if passing a car were illegal passing a bike would be illegal too. I have to admit I dont know the law regarding bicycles too well.

 

There's a lot of legal ambiguity in most states. Some states have made official provisions.  While I live in one of those reasonable states, I hope people in others will choose the safe and smart options over worrying about a painted line nobody is likely make an arrest over.

http://iamtraffic.org/engineering/crossing-double-yellow-line/

[Elizabeth86]

It is illegal to pass a car, not a bike.

 

Here's a handy chart. Some states require a buffer of 2-3 feet, allowing you to move toward the middle of those solid lines for protection. http://www.ncsl.org/research/transportation/safely-passing-bicyclists.aspx

 

You're actually putting him more at risk, which is why he continues to look behind him, by not being a diligent motorist.

I had no idea. Thanks for the chart. Honestly in drivers ed the only thing they told us was treat a bike like any other vehicle and in my mind I thought if I cant pass a car here I cant pass a bike here. ?? I learn something new all the time

[SparklyUnicorn]

Lot of states don't even require motorcycle drivers to wear helmets.  I think it's stupid not to, but in terms of laws....

 

I'm kinda surprised it wouldn't be a law. 

[Elizabeth86]

Lot of states don't even require motorcycle drivers to wear helmets. I think it's stupid not to, but in terms of laws....

 

I'm kinda surprised it wouldn't be a law.

I just looked it up. My state required motorcycle riders to wear helmets, but not bicycle riders too.

 

 

And for the record, there is rarely a chance to safely pass this kud, but I will next time I can.

[regentrude]

Cars hovering behind slow bikers are not only  extremely annoying, but also dangerous, since the cyclist will turn around, or move off the edge of the roadway. Please pass if you can do so safely. Many states have laws that make exceptions for crossing double yellow line for slow moving vehicles or obstructions.

Edited September 25, 2017 by regentrude

[MEmama]

Ok so I thought you had to treat a bike like a car I didnt know. As far as me freaking him out though...He is in front of coal trucks with them right on his rear so whatever, its not like Im the only person to ever drive slowly behind him before he decides to get off the road.

No. He has no responsibility to "get off the road". Assuming he is riding in the bike lane/shoulder/side of road when it is safe to do so, he has as much legal right to the road as you do. Many states have a 3 foot buffer that cars must always respect. As a motorist, you have the right to pass him safely; very rarely is it necessary to cross a yellow dividing line to do so.

 

You might consider reading bicycle traffic laws in your state so you can become more comfortable with how to handle certain situations.

 

As a cyclist and the mother of an avid racer, thank you for asking how to handle this. Bicycle safety is a huge concern for me and while some places have excellent advocacy groups, others sadly do not. The more we are aware, the better we can respond.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I just looked it up. My state required motorcycle riders to wear helmets, but not bicycle riders too.

 

 

And for the record, there is rarely a chance to safely pass this kud, but I will next time I can.

 

One nice thing here where I live is that most major roads have a center turn lane.  We had nothing like it in the state I moved from, but it makes passing bikes easier when that comes up. 

 

I agree it can get tricky with bikes.  I have been in situations where I could not pass and it was awkward. 

[regentrude]

Ok so I thought you had to treat a bike like a car I didnt know. As far as me freaking him out though...He is in front of coal trucks with them right on his rear so whatever, its not like Im the only person to ever drive slowly behind him before he decides to get off the road.

 

Why should he get off the road? He has as much right to cycle on the road as cars have to drive.

[Elizabeth86]

Why should he get off the road? He has as much right to cycle on the road as cars have to drive.

I didnt say he should. I said before *he* decides to to get off the road. I just said the truckers ride his ass until he chooses to turn off somewhere.

[Elizabeth86]

No. He has no responsibility to "get off the road". Assuming he is riding in the bike lane/shoulder/side of road when it is safe to do so, he has as much legal right to the road as you do. Many states have a 3 foot buffer that cars must always respect. As a motorist, you have the right to pass him safely; very rarely is it necessary to cross a yellow dividing line to do so.

 

You might consider reading bicycle traffic laws in your state so you can become more comfortable with how to handle certain situations.

 

As a cyclist and the mother of an avid racer, thank you for asking how to handle this. Bicycle safety is a huge concern for me and while some places have excellent advocacy groups, others sadly do not. The more we are aware, the better we can respond.

I didnt mean that he had a responsibility to get off the road. Im just saying most of the time we are stuck behind him until he chooses to turn off on anothet road not pull over.

[Guest]

Okay but the problem here isn't him. It's the motorists. He can ride his bike on that road the way he is doing it, no problems. You can pass him safely when it is clear to do so, even going over double yellow lines, in every state I've lived in. He should be wearing a helmet, which is about the only thing I'd nitpick. Looking behind him on the bike is safe too, though mirrors mounted to helmets make that easier and safer.

 

Honestly it sounds like you're hypersensitive to this, he's really just fine. The road that buzzes by our home here is 50 mph and cyclists are on it all the time, as it links to a gazillion bike paths. As long as everyone is safe and doesn't do something stupid and unpredictable, nobody gets hurts. Bicycle accidents in this neck of the woods are rare, even involving children.

[Carrie12345]

Adding: For whatever it's worth, I don't think this has anything to do with free ranging.  I consider teenagers to be almost fully baked (almost!) after a childhood of free ranging or near-free ranging.

 

To me, free ranging is more like how I hollered out to my 6yo for standing too close to his 10yo brother while he was hacking away at a dead tree trunk with an ax, rather than believing a 10yo shouldn't get a feel for using an ax.  When they're teenagers, I don't expect to even know when they're using an ax.

[Elizabeth86]

Okay but the problem here isn't him. It's the motorists. He can ride his bike on that road the way he is doing it, no problems. You can pass him safely when it is clear to do so, even going over double yellow lines, in every state I've lived in. He should be wearing a helmet, which is about the only thing I'd nitpick. Looking behind him on the bike is safe too, though mirrors mounted to helmets make that easier and safer.

 

Honestly it sounds like you're hypersensitive to this, he's really just fine. The road that buzzes by our home here is 50 mph and cyclists are on it all the time, as it links to a gazillion bike paths. As long as everyone is safe and doesn't do something stupid and unpredictable, nobody gets hurts. Bicycle accidents in this neck of the woods are rare, even involving children.

Ok, it is settled. Im the odd ball worrier. If that was my kid I would just die. If that were me, it would scare the shit out of me. I dont like this road in a car. You couldnt pay me to get on a bike on.

 

Thanks for all the information though.

[Elizabeth86]

Adding: For whatever it's worth, I don't think this has anything to do with free ranging. I consider teenagers to be almost fully baked (almost!) after a childhood of free ranging or near-free ranging.

 

To me, free ranging is more like how I hollered out to my 6yo for standing too close to his 10yo brother while he was hacking away at a dead tree trunk with an ax, rather than believing a 10yo shouldn't get a feel for using an ax. When they're teenagers, I don't expect to even know when they're using an ax.

Thats so funny to me though. I think my parents still dont think I am old enough to take care of myself lol. I know they didnt feel I was almost the same as an adult at 16. Im sheltered what can I say. Edited September 25, 2017 by Elizabeth86

[HomeAgain]

Ok, it is settled. Im the odd ball worrier. If that was my kid I would just die. If that were me, it would scare the shit out of me. I dont like this road in a car. You couldnt pay me to get on a bike on.

 

Thanks for all the information though.

 

I think you're right, that it does come down to a cultural thing.  You're not an odd ball worrier.  We all worry about our kids.  You come from a home where it was expected that your parents would be more involved in your decisions.  It's going to color how you see the world.  I think parenthood is good for making us examine our fears and expectations, and really see what they're rooted in.

[EKS]

If he were my kid, I'd make him wear a helmet, and I'd probably tell him not to look behind him.  As far as the road itself, I'd have to see it to make a judgment about it.

 

But if there is room to do so, you should pass him.  It is beyond annoying to be on a bike with a car driving slowly behind you.

[MEmama]

I didnt mean that he had a responsibility to get off the road. Im just saying most of the time we are stuck behind him until he chooses to turn off on anothet road not pull over.

Ah, I misunderstood. It's a common enough refrain, sadly, that bikes have fewer rights than cars; that they should, indeed, "get out of the way". I'm glad that's not what you meant! :)

 

I apologise.

[MEmama]

Ok, it is settled. Im the odd ball worrier. If that was my kid I would just die. If that were me, it would scare the shit out of me. I dont like this road in a car. You couldnt pay me to get on a bike on.

 

Thanks for all the information though.

You don't sound like an oddball worrier to me. You sound like a conscientious, aware driver and citizen who is looking out for the safety of the cyclists in your community. I think that's something to be proud of; if there were more drivers like you we would suffer far fewer losses.

[Elizabeth86]

Ah, I misunderstood. It's a common enough refrain, sadly, that bikes have fewer rights than cars; that they should, indeed, "get out of the way". I'm glad that's not what you meant! :)

 

I apologise.

Thank you. Not what I meant.

[sassenach]

I think your definitions of "share the road" and "free range" are different from the norm.

 

Sharing the road means to be aware and curteous to biciclist. What you're doing is actually dangerous, because the normal behavior is to pass him when it's safe for both of you. By not passing him, you're creating an unsafe situation because now he has to keep looking back to try to understand why you aren't passing.

 

Its not necessarily free range to let a teen ride his bike on a main road. I would t call myself free range, but my kids have cycled on main roads from when they were little. I think my youngest was probably 7 and out with dh and my olders on 10 mile trips using main roads.

 

I agree about the helmet!

[Elizabeth86]

I think your definitions of "share the road" and "free range" are different from the norm.

 

Sharing the road means to be aware and curteous to biciclist. What you're doing is actually dangerous, because the normal behavior is to pass him when it's safe for both of you. By not passing him, you're creating an unsafe situation because now he has to keep looking back to try to understand why you aren't passing.

 

Its not necessarily free range to let a teen ride his bike on a main road. I would t call myself free range, but my kids have cycled on main roads from when they were little. I think my youngest was probably 7 and out with dh and my olders on 10 mile trips using main roads.

 

I agree about the helmet!

Well I will pass him from now on when safe. I thought I was obeying the law.

 

Still I could never ever imagine anyone riding a bike on this road. I wouldnt personally. I never realuzed how uptight I am...

 

And I am not kidding, our drivers ec teacher said treat a bike just like a car and I just figured that was true. Thanks for teaching me what is correct.

Edited September 25, 2017 by Elizabeth86

[Sk8ermaiden]

I think some things can be regional. The main roads here are lethal. I hear stories about adults being killed while bicycling to work at *least* monthly. Usually only adults, because no one would let their kids or teens anywhere near the main roads on a bike. The situation you describe would make me so nervous for the teen. 

 

ETA: I absolutely would never let my hypothetical teen on most of these roads on a bike either, and I am FAR from a helicopter parent, while falling slightly short of free range.

Edited September 25, 2017 by Sk8ermaiden

[snowbeltmom]

I think some things can be regional. The main roads here are lethal. I hear stories about adults being killed while bicycling to work at *least* monthly. Usually only adults, because no one would let their kids or teens anywhere near the main roads on a bike. The situation you describe would make me so nervous for the teen. 

 

ETA: I absolutely would never let my hypothetical teen on most of these roads on a bike either, and I am FAR from a helicopter parent, while falling slightly short of free range.

:iagree:

The roads in my area are lethal as well.  While I don't hear of a fatality on a monthly basis, there are many adult fatalities each year.  Many times, neither the biker nor the motorist are found to be at fault in these accidents. 

 

I also consider myself far from a helicopter parent, but my kids have never been permitted to bike on these roads. 

[TX Native]

I understand some roads are just difficult to be safe for driving at 45+mph, let alone riding a bike. I am talking about narrow, curvy, and hilly roads with little shoulder room and where some motorists often exceed the speed limit. I am picturing this to be the type of road you are referring to. I am not a paranoid driver or over sensitive when I drive, but I can name 2 roads within 5 miles of me with heavy traffic that I feel nervous driving on and would never want to bike on. One of the 2 has had fatal wrecks through the years, one of which was a college classmate. The road is still the same and houses keep getting built along it to increase traffic. The other road has had residents along the road petition for slower speed limit and less residential expansion. It was originally a rural road with little traffic off the main interstate, but every track builder has come through and built large subdivision along this tiny, narrow, hilly, curvy, road with little shoulder room. The residents think the county reps are nuts for allowing the so many subdivisions off this road that likely can;t be widened because it is so hilly. It would be a nightmare to end up with a flat tire on this road. I pass bikes all the time, I don't worry about wreck risk to bikers in general, but I would be concerned about bikers on these 2 roads and I would be skeptical to pass in a timely manner because there are so few places on the road to know I will not get in a head on collision by going slightly over the yellow lines.

 

My guess is OP isn't talking about being afraid to pass the biker as much as she is afraid to pass the biker on this particular road.

Edited September 25, 2017 by TX native

[SKL]

Yes I would let my teen do that.  Sounds like he is obeying the law.

 

I'm sorry your family had so many tragedies involving car accidents.  But it is still unlikely statistically that the teen on the bike will get seriously injured by a vehicle.

[Elizabeth86]

I am talking about narrow, curvy, and hilly roads with little shoulder room and where some motorists often exceed the speed limit. I am picturing this to be the type of road you are referring to.

 

My guess is OP isn't talking about being afraid to pass the biker as much as she is afraid to pass the biker on this particular road.

You nailed it.

[Elizabeth86]

Yes I would let my teen do that. Sounds like he is obeying the law.

 

I'm sorry your family had so many tragedies involving car accidents. But it is still unlikely statistically that the teen on the bike will get seriously injured by a vehicle.

Yeah except I drive on this road and like I said vehicle tragedies is a family curse.

[73349]

For my kid, even if he's well into his teens, going out with the bike means with a helmet.

 

As far as the road being unsuitable, I'd probably take that up with local government; it's unreasonable for people not to be able to get around safely without cars.