18 is the new 15 for American teens

[MarkT]

Interesting

https://qz.com/1081196/when-it-comes-to-teen-sex-dating-and-drinking-teens-are-doing-much-less-of-it/

 

from what I have observed -  I agree versus my years as a teen long ago

 

We are all better off for it

 

 

 

[Carrie12345]

All of that sounds like giant globs of miscellaneous data mixed together for conflicting conclusions.  They're so much better off, they're deeply disturbed. They're making better decisions, they're so much more immature. They're coddled, they're responsible.  You're doing a great job, you're destroying your children.  I can't imagine what purpose that's supposed to serve.

[Mommyof1]

I remember wanting to make my own money as a preteen so I got a paper route and a babysitting job.

 

At 16 I got a job at fast food plus I was still babysitting, going to school and hanging out with family and friends.

 

I wanted to buy my own stuff and pay my own way.

 

I'm glad they are having less sex and aren't doing drugs but...

 

I think it is an important part of the teen years to hold a job and start paying for your own things. Responsibility and independence.

Edited September 23, 2017 by Mommyof1

[Guest]

I don't know about the conclusions but I agree with the statistics. My ds is almost 17 and doesn't drive and very few of his peers got their license right at 16. Also, very few of his friends date. Neither of my teens has any interest in an exclusive relationship--everyone was attached at 16 when I was a kid.

 

ETA--my kids don't work yet but they have activities every night. What will look better on a college app?? I guess we'll find in a few years.

 

I don't know what it all means but I'm good with it.

Edited September 23, 2017 by Moxie

[Paige]

I agree that things are different for teens today. I read an article yesterday, probably based on the same research, that described the trend as delaying adulthood or extending childhood, and I think it is a good description for what I see. I've been amazed by how even the high school teachers feel compelled to send me constant e-mails about upcoming tests and homework assignments for my 16yr old! Why would they be sending parents of 16yr olds weekly reminders about upcoming homework assignments and tests? I find it annoying.

 

The overall trend, however, of extending childhood and launching kids' into adulthood at later ages does not need to be positive or negative. I think different is just different. Why do we need to decide if it's better or worse and make judgments about kids or parents today? We are all just doing our best with what we've been given. I can accept that high school teachers e-mailing me and annoying me is my problem- it's not worse than how my teachers ran their high school classes. It's different, and sometimes I find different annoying but it doesn't make it worse. 

[MarkT]

I agree that things are different for teens today. I read an article yesterday, probably based on the same research, that described the trend as delaying adulthood or extending childhood, and I think it is a good description for what I see. I've been amazed by how even the high school teachers feel compelled to send me constant e-mails about upcoming tests and homework assignments for my 16yr old! Why would they be sending parents of 16yr olds weekly reminders about upcoming homework assignments and tests? I find it annoying.

 

wow that is annoying!

 

I try very hard to have DS become more independent each year.

[Garga]

I think it's economics. In the past, you could find a job out of high school that could support a single person, or at least a single person with a room mate. That's much harder to do today. In order to be self-supporting, you need more years of schooling, which means more years dependent on your family at home paying your bills.

 

If I knew my son was going to head straight to a job and out of the house in 3 years, I'd parent him differently. I'd be parenting him toward being on his own in 3 years. But that's not what will happen. Instead, he'll be facing 4 or more years of education and living in my house with me, or at least being supported by me. So, I parent him differently.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Opportunities are different now. Costs are different now. The stakes are different now. I think that you can have independence in different ways.

 

 

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[Guest]

Opportunities are different now. Costs are different now. The stakes are different now. I think that you can have independence in different ways.

 

 

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Yes! We fully expect our children to live at home for the first two years of college. We can't afford "the college experience" so it just makes sense. That doesn't mean that they aren't independent.

[teachermom2834]

So far my oldest kids ,19 yo and 17 yo boys, seem more mature and independent than their peers. They drove at 16, dated quite a bit, worked, managed money, did dual enrollment. I signed releases for them to take themselves to doctor and dentist appointments and had them schedule many of their own appointments, fill out paperwork, communicate with adult teachers, leaders, coaches.

 

BUT- I don't think that is necessarily better. It is just a combination of their personalities, my personality, and life circumstances. We went through a couple of periods of unemployment during their high school years. I was busy with younger kids and needed them to be more independent. I also was fairly burned out during those years and I really didn't want to make another phone call or fill out another dang form. Second ds had no extracurricular interests and needed something to do with his time so he ended up working alot. I would have much preferred they both delay dating longer than they did.

 

I can see things being different for my next two kids. Third boy is most academically driven and I can picture supporting his interests in a way that doesn't involve as much paid employment and responsibility. But he will be very responsible in his academic and service ventures and will develop personally through other activities. Both this kid and my youngest get a mom that is not stretched so thin and a more stable financial situation. There will be less need/pressure for them to take on these adult like responsibilities. I think it is okay too.

 

Times are different but not necessarily worse. Just different.

[Jean in Newcastle]

My 15 year old who doesn't work, date or drive just flew a couple of states away by herself. I find these measures of maturity and independence to be rather arbitrary.

 

 

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[TX Native]

I think the delaying of driving has a lot to do with astronomical car insurance rates for teen drivers. Why not wait on driving till 17 or 18 and save the insurance money unless there is no other way for them to get to and from necessary places?

 

I think the delaying of getting paying jobs has to do with increased academic expectation and insane homework load expected in high school. In the late 80s, all I had to do to get an A is show up to class, pay attention, do a bit of math or reading in the evening, and study for finals. An occassional paper, maybe typed, was the exception, not the rule, in my high school classes. Maybe an hour/evening?

Edited September 23, 2017 by TX native

[kroe1]

I think we are fooling ourselves when we think our kiddos are less mature than previous generations. One doesn't need to clean 1100 toilet seats to know how to clean a toilet. Life as an adult is relatively simple. Our kiddos are ready the moment they are thrust into it. Just because one talks to momma first, does not mean he is not ready for the task alone. It may just mean he wants to talk to momma.

[catz]

I think the delaying of driving has a lot to do with astronomical car insurance rates for teen drivers. Why not wait on driving till 17 or 18 unless there is no other way for them to get to and from necessary places?

 

I think the delaying of getting paying jobs has to do with increased academic expectation and insane homework load expected in high school. In the late 80s, all I had to do to get an A is show up to class, pay attention, do a bit of math or reading in the evening, and study for tests. Maybe an hour/evening?

Yes, this! The process to get a license is longer and more expensive too. When I got a license, I took a class at a public school, took a little behind the wheel, practiced a little, and got my license. Now the classes are expensive and off school time. You need to have 50 hours of logged practice. And 6 hours behind the wheel. And that is for a provisional license so there is no joy riding anyway. Not to mention the insurance rates.

 

Working on academics is work. I don't see why flipping burgers is so glorified? I did it in high school and didn't really benefit. There are other ways to learn to manage money.

[Lady Marmalade]

I think the delaying of driving has a lot to do with astronomical car insurance rates for teen drivers. Why not wait on driving till 17 or 18 and save the insurance money unless there is no other way for them to get to and from necessary places?

 

I think the delaying of getting paying jobs has to do with increased academic expectation and insane homework load expected in high school. In the late 80s, all I had to do to get an A is show up to class, pay attention, do a bit of math or reading in the evening, and study for finals. An occassional paper, maybe typed, was the exception, not the rule, in my high school classes. Maybe an hour/evening?

 

Both of these for sure.  DD is 17 and doesn't drive.  She is not interested yet, and we're okay with that.  She can totally wait until she is 18 when the process is much simpler and far less expensive, AND insurance rates will be a little lighter.

 

The delay of jobs is multi-fold, I think.  Academic load is definitely more these days, as well as evening activities.  It is extremely difficult for a teen to find an entry level job willing to work around even minor schedule requirements- can't work these two evenings? Sorry, too much work to keep track of who needs off which days.   A large number of entry level employers won't even hire someone who isn't at least 18 anymore- it's absolutely crazy.  DD still just babysits from time to time as her only source of pocket money.  

 

[Jean in Newcastle]

It seems crazy to blame teens for not getting jobs that aren't even offered to them anymore.   As others have said, many employers will not hire teens.  And those who do have to follow strict rules set by the state.  My ds got a job at 16 but his hours and even the tasks he was allowed to do all had to meet state labor guidelines.  Not saying that is bad, but many employers don't want to follow the extra rules and so they don't bother. 

[nixpix5]

Hmmm...conflicting data in that report.

 

I agree that it is just different now. It some ways I have seen teens be light years more mature than in my generation and in other ways I am left scratching my head at how immature something is. Just different.

 

My older boys were a mix as well. One didn't drive until 18 and the other didn't until 20. I didn't believe they needed to drive at 16 and they decided when it was right for their adulthood. Neither have had accidents or tickets so I am pleased with the delay. They both left at 18 for college and both have stayed independent, working one or two jobs to pay for what they value; education, a car, their dog's care and diet which they take quite seriously and so forth. I would say this is all responsible behavior but they have friends that live at home still, who also work and go to school, date or not date...but still are great people living their life. If my boys needed to move home for financial reasons I wouldn't bat an eye at that. They are always welcomed.

 

It is a much more expensive and dichotomized world they were launched into so no doubt things are different.

[TX Native]

Another thing is I don't see teens not being intimate and not trying alcohol as delaying maturity. I think it shows they are more mature now to wait on things like that until they are mature enough to handle it in an adult way. If I was measured as becoming an adult based on the age I tried alcohol or was intimate with someone, I would be considered geriatric (by their standards) before I became a true adult! So we spend so much money the past few decades on campaigns to decrease the desire for teens drink to be cool, work the dangers of binge drinking in their education, make strict laws forcing store clerks to check IDs so no one under 21 can buy alcohol (something that some places didn't do in the 70s and 80s--plus a 21yo is less likely to give a minor alcohol), and parents started to lock alcohol cabinets when the teens are unsupervised in the past 40 years.....and the article links a chart to decrease in percent that teens try alcohol to maturity? Also, we spent so much money as a society for s%x education, STDs, dangers of hopping partners, pregnancy risk, develop extracurricular activities that keep teens productive instead experiementing with intimate stuff "just because" b/n the time school lets out and their parents get home from work...and the article says delaying s%x until they are actual adults means they are less mature? I just don' the get it. I just skimmed the article, so maybe I am misunderstanding it. I do call BS on their opinion that the increased homework load isn't a factor in delaying getting a job, because I kmow kids have more homework than they did in the 70s and 80s )starting in Kindergarten here!). The article says homework load hasn't increased from past decades???

[Joker]

Students in our district can't work without a school issued permit. If the school doesn't think you can handle a job outside of school, you can't legally work.

 

Mine could get permits but the hours are so restricted and so we decided against it. They volunteer and are involved in lots of school clubs and activities instead.

 

Neither of mine drive but they do have permits. Drivers education is so expensive here so we teach them ourselves but that means they have to wait a bit longer to get the licenses. We're in no hurry. Ds doesn't really want to drive anyway but it had nothing to do with his maturity and independence. He's traveled on plans without us and he's out a lot with his friends who do drive.

 

ETA: Ds had a girlfriend for a while this past year but just broke things off. She became way too serious and didn't want him to do anything without her. He's now in no hurry to get into another relationship anytime soon. I think that's a smart decision on his part.

Edited September 23, 2017 by Joker

[Liz CA]

Another thing is I don't see teens not being intimate and not trying alcohol as delaying maturity. I think it shows they are more mature now to wait on things like that until they are mature enough to handle it in an adult way.

 

This struck me as a little odd too. What parameters are used to define maturity?

I would not call a 15 year old sexually active, imbibing person mature. However, a 18 year old that has a goal, is working toward it or is actively trying to evaluate his options may be on his way to becoming mature.

[Carrie12345]

My 15 year old who doesn't work, date or drive just flew a couple of states away by herself. I find these measures of maturity and independence to be rather arbitrary.

 

 

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Absolutely.

I consider my teenagers incredibly mature for their ages, for factors completely unrelated to sex, drugs, or rock and roll. (We push grunge and hair bands, lol.). I expect them to be mature enough to be independent by 18 so that they can be if they have to, but I don't want them to have to be.

[Corraleno]

According to a huge new study, adolescents in the 2010s were less likely date, drink alcohol, go out without their parents, and have sex than teens in every generation since the 1970s. Fewer of them have paying jobs or drive.

 

 

Just looking at one tiny sample size I'm very familiar with — DS and his 4 closest friends (17-18 yrs old)— confirms both the overall conclusion and the inverse correlation between lack of drugs/alcohol/sex and early driving and working.

 

The only one of the 5 teens who had his license and a P/T job as soon as he turned 16, and who often traveled without a parent, is also the only one of the group who drinks, smokes weed, and has had multiple partners. Of the other four, two recently got their license at 17 & 17.5 and the other two have permits but no licenses. All four are close to their parents and travel with them to competitions. None of them drink, do drugs, or have sex. Two of them work 5-6 hrs/wk as an assistant coach in the youth classes at their club and the the other two have a ton of extracurriculars at a top private school, which makes holding a job difficult. All four of these are top students who put a ton of time and effort into academics.

 

The least mature of the five teens is the one who started "adulting" the earliest, if that is measured by driving, working, lack of parental supervision, and general independence from family. IMO independence and maturity are very different things, which may or may not go together. I'd much rather have a child with the self-awareness to purposely delay some areas of independence until he's more mature, than one who rushes to independence before he's mature enough to avoid doing a whole lot of stupid stuff.

Edited September 23, 2017 by Corraleno

[Seasider]

I think it's economics. In the past, you could find a job out of high school that could support a single person, or at least a single person with a room mate. That's much harder to do today. In order to be self-supporting, you need more years of schooling, which means more years dependent on your family at home paying your bills.

 

.

I hear what you're saying here but there is also the factor of the longer term demands on the parents' resources. This is making the sandwich generation more squeezed than ever - should be called the "panini" generation because we are all hot pressed. Between the time we launch kids and then have to face assisting our elders, there's no time to catch a breath of stabilize finances. I mean, I think it's REALLY important to have the time and wherewithal to plan for our own retirement and long term care needs. The cost of a long delayed adulthood financed my mom and dad may really just be a shift in where the young adult has to spend time and money: work hard at the outset, or get slammed in the middle years with having to support parents who spent their long term care dollars too early. (Yes, I could be guilty of hyperbole but I think there's truth to it.)

 

Speaking for my own young adults, each of them have had early jobs which helped shape their sound work ethics. We find ourselves more in the position to be generous assistants than major bankrollers. IME, this has resulted in greater satisfaction on our part, and greater thankfulness on theirs. But man, we have felt the squeeze already, and for others it's going to be much worse.

[Wheres Toto]

Oldest dd and I were talking about jobs yesterday.  She works for a clothing store at a local mall, and was recently made a manager.  She's basically doing it until she goes back to grad school (they are aware and willing to adjust her hours when she's in school).  They have 4 employees right now and ALL of them are management.  She was telling me all the stores in the mall are saying the same thing - they can't find employees.  They are willing to hire teenagers still in high school.  They are willing to be flexible on hours.  They pay $9.50 an hour to start.   What they are getting is 16 year olds who have no experience and want to be paid more.  They aren't willing to work for $9.50 an hour.  Dd at 23 is actually the oldest employee except the store manager.

[QueenCat]

I remember wanting to make my own money as a preteen so I got a paper route and a babysitting job.

 

At 16 I got a job at fast food plus I was still babysitting, going to school and hanging out with family and friends.

 

I wanted to buy my own stuff and pay my own way.

 

I'm glad they are having less sex and aren't doing drugs but...

 

I think it is an important part of the teen years to hold a job and start paying for your own things. Responsibility and independence.

 

It is very difficult in many places in the U.S. for teens to get the jobs that used to be more typically thought of as "teen jobs." In most of the places we've lived, in the past 15 years, adults are working in the fast food joints as well as in the retail jobs. And many places have raised the minimum age to 17-18 for someone to work there. Many of these jobs are now "long term" and not just short term teen & college jobs. It's not this way everywhere but it is far more common than one might think.

 

Even babysitting ages have gone up. I babysat at 12. None of my peers would have hired a 12 year old to babysit their kids. I think 15 is the youngest babysitter I ever used.

[bethben]

The gist I got from the article is that because teens aren't drinking early or having sex early equals not mature. Because drinking alcohol and having sex makes us an adult...the author of the article has a very odd sense of adulthood.

 

 

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[fraidycat]

I think we are fooling ourselves when we think our kiddos are less mature than previous generations. One doesn't need to clean 1100 toilet seats to know how to clean a toilet. Life as an adult is relatively simple. Our kiddos are ready the moment they are thrust into it. Just because one talks to momma first, does not mean he is not ready for the task alone. It may just mean he wants to talk to momma.

Heck, I'm 41, often live in a separate country from my parents, and still call them to ask for opinions, advice, and just because.

[Mommyof1]

HI Queencat,

 

I guess it depends on where you live.

 

Both mine and my husband family have their teens working at fast food, restaurants, lifeguarding and shoe stores. One female cousin was working 2 jobs during her senior year plus she was babysitting. That was this past school year.

 

Ymmv

Edited September 23, 2017 by Mommyof1

[QueenCat]

HI Queencat,

 

I guess it depends on where you live.

 

Both mine and my husband family have their teens working at fast food, restaurants, lifeguarding and shoe stores. One female cousin was working 2 jobs during her senior year plus she was babysitting. That was this past school year.

 

Ymmv

 

Lifeguarding is still a thing for teens & college students where we've lived (4 states in the past 15 years). But the other places, not so much. A little more here, but still more adults that are working there as their means of making a living.

[TravelingChris]

My youngest drove at 16.5 but was not into drugs, sex or alcohol.  She didn't work since she was too busy in school and activities plus there weren't places really hiring teens.  She was plenty mature though and had no issues going to university classes at 17 or driving to another city a few hours away for an event by herself.  Dumb article.

[frogger]

I hear what you're saying here but there is also the factor of the longer term demands on the parents' resources. This is making the sandwich generation more squeezed than ever - should be called the "panini" generation because we are all hot pressed. Between the time we launch kids and then have to face assisting our elders, there's no time to catch a breath of stabilize finances.

I love this image. Well, I wish it weren't true but the picture fits.

 

 

This surprises me. I see how different my children's life is from my teen years and I really thought they were odd balls but now I see they are trendy. :) What I don't understand is why not doing drugs and sleeping around is considered a sign of immaturity. Call me confused.

[Murphy101]

I love this image. Well, I wish it weren't true but the picture fits.

 

 

This surprises me. I see how different my children's life is from my teen years and I really thought they were odd balls but now I see they are trendy. :) What I don't understand is why not doing drugs and sleeping around is considered a sign of immaturity. Call me confused.

Some people view that as part and parcel of "finding themselves" and "exploring life" and that a "rebel phase" is a required part of growing up.

 

I think that's a huge lump of BS.

Edited September 24, 2017 by Murphy101

[kiwik]

Students in our district can't work without a school issued permit. If the school doesn't think you can handle a job outside of school, you can't legally work.

 

Mine could get permits but the hours are so restricted and so we decided against it. They volunteer and are involved in lots of school clubs and activities instead.

 

Neither of mine drive but they do have permits. Drivers education is so expensive here so we teach them ourselves but that means they have to wait a bit longer to get the licenses. We're in no hurry. Ds doesn't really want to drive anyway but it had nothing to do with his maturity and independence. He's traveled on plans without us and he's out a lot with his friends who do drive.

 

ETA: Ds had a girlfriend for a while this past year but just broke things off. She became way too serious and didn't want him to do anything without her. He's now in no hurry to get into another relationship anytime soon. I think that's a smart decision on his part.

Does that not seem an outrageous intrusion to you? The permit to work thing I mean. Some kids need to work and they are often not the ones who find academics easiest. Edited September 24, 2017 by kiwik

[Mommyof1]

When I was growing up our high school had a class called work experience. You got class credit for it. They would let you leave early for it.

[Prairie~Phlox]

Does that not seem an outrageous intrusion to you? The permit to work thing I mean. Some kids need to work and they are often not the ones who find academics easiest.

Work permits are common here & not really a big deal.

[MEmama]

Does that not seem an outrageous intrusion to you? The permit to work thing I mean. Some kids need to work and they are often not the ones who find academics easiest.

Not the poster you quoted, but teens in my state get their work permit via the schools as well, and it's totally no big deal. Last summer DS14 applied for a work permit for a bike shop and had it within a few days. Because he was homeschooled and they "didn't have a record", I had to write a letter declaring him in good standing. :). It was hilarious; I wrote it in ten seconds right there in the office: "To whom it may concern, I declare my homeschooled son is in good standing...". They didn't care what I wrote, of course, it was just something for the official file.

 

I think it's good that kids have certain parameters around working. Without labor laws and some kind of oversight, we'd easily slip back to the not so distant past and have kids working instead of getting an education. Obviously I think teens having a job--especially in summer--can be a positive, but so are boundaries. Academics should be their primary job, before sports or extracurriculars or earning money.

Edited September 24, 2017 by MEmama

[Carrie12345]

Not the poster you quoted, but teens in my state get their work permit via the schools as well, and it's totally no big deal. Last summer DS14 applied for a work permit for a bike shop and had it within a few days. Because he was homeschooled and they "didn't have a record", I had to write a letter declaring him in good standing. :). It was hilarious; I wrote it in ten seconds right there in the office: "To whom it may concern, I declare my homeschooled son is in good standing...". They didn't care what I wrote, of course, it was just something for the official file.

 

I think it's good that kids have certain parameters around working. Without labor laws and some kind of oversight, we'd easily slip back to the not so distant past and have kids working instead of getting an education. Obviously I think teens having a job--especially in summer--can be a positive, but so are boundaries. Academics should be their primary job, before sports or extracurriculars or earning money.

 

My take on work permits is that they serve more to keep employers in check on child labor laws than intrude on students. And I say that as someone who's homeschooled kids completely resent the labor laws. (They extend to first responder volunteers.)  They do loosen up at 16 when, in my state at least, an employed student can be eligible to drop out anyway.

[DawnM]

Drinking and having illicit sex and using street drugs......hmmm.....guess I am not a grown up yet.

[Crimson Wife]

One thing not mentioned is that the divorce rate and early widowhood rate has decreased tremendously since our parents' generation. The one common factor among my classmates who started having s*x as early teens (13-15) was that their moms were divorced or widowed and the fathers were out of the picture. So the girls struck me as using their bodies to gain male attention because of their "daddy issues". Today divorce is pretty rare in our social circle and those who do divorce are a lot more committed to "co-parenting" with their exes than was common in the past.