ElizabethB Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 (edited) I am working on a long vowel first beginning phonics program and at Don Potter’s recommendation checked out the Stevenson Language materials, they also start with long vowels first. (As do the old Open Court and the more recent School Phonics, I own both of those already.)Anyway, reading through the manual that has come so far, they stated that the vowel teams ei and ey as long a came from another language where long A was spelled that way. Looking up the origin of several of these words did not help, they had roots from 3 or 4 different languages with no common trend. Does anyone know? And, I am assuming tha ai/ay as long A comes from Old English based on the trend from those but wanted to double check that, too!Thanks!! Edited September 23, 2017 by ElizabethB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
73349 Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 Might have to do with the Great Vowel Shift? (and I suspect French influence). :lurk5: to hear more. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arctic Bunny Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 Neigh, weigh, eight, and sleigh all have Dutch origins.... Whereas grey, prey, convey, obey have Latin or French roots.... So where does that leave us? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 (edited) I'm not sure that grey came precisely from the French or Latin http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=gray&allowed_in_frame=0 The French origins for prey are not spelt ei, so don't fit the OPs thesis. http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=gray&allowed_in_frame=0 Nor does convey http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&search=Convey Obeissance looks closer, but the modern French word has an accent that marks that the e and I are separate sounds, not a single ei sound. I don't know about in older French. http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/french-english/obeissance?q=obéissance Perhaps Dutch then. Edited September 23, 2017 by Laura Corin 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 I don't know, but when someone on Learning Challenges was writing about having told her son that in Spanish e is pronounced like A, I might have added a reply that for Spanish speakers learning English, an approximation of how to make the long A sound for English, can be indicated by the diphthong ei in Spanish, or especially by e with an acute accent I. Or also something like ey such as in ley (law). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 Maybe the point is not that there is a single origin for ei and ey as A sound words, but just that they tend to derive from other languages at some point back in their etymological history. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luuknam Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 Neigh, weigh, eight, and sleigh all have Dutch origins.... Neigh - Google says related to a Dutch dialect? I can't speak to dialect - there are quite a number of Dutch dialects, and some are quite "out there". Weigh = weegt, weight = gewicht. Eight = acht. Sleigh = slee. So, weegt & slee have a long a sound, but no 'i' or 'y'. gewicht has a short i sound, and acht has a short u sound. Perhaps Dutch then. Nee. (Which is pronounced 'nay', and means 'no'). In Dutch, the 'ei' letter combination makes the same sound as 'ij', which is kind of like long i. Definitely not long a. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElizabethB Posted September 24, 2017 Author Share Posted September 24, 2017 Maybe the point is not that there is a single origin for ei and ey as A sound words, but just that they tend to derive from other languages at some point back in their etymological history. They could both explain it and explain why they didn’t say the language. I was feeling ripped off...if you are going to mention it, don’t leave me hanging! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElizabethB Posted September 24, 2017 Author Share Posted September 24, 2017 Maybe the point is not that there is a single origin for ei and ey as A sound words, but just that they tend to derive from other languages at some point back in their etymological history. They could both explain it and explain why they didn’t say the language. I was feeling ripped off...if you are going to mention it, don’t leave me hanging! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rose Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 I don't have anything to add to the discussion but I wanted to say that I'm looking forward to seeing what you end up producing. :) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori D. Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 (edited) Annoyingly, my favorite go to resource of The ABCs And All Their Tricks does not say, either. :( It does say that this is the entire list of words containing EY for long A: whey prey eyrie hey heyday bey obey disobey abeyance grey greyhound survey surveying surveyor purvey purveyor convey conveyer conveyance Edited September 24, 2017 by Lori D. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 That's interesting. I pronounce eyrie the same as eerie. Apparently both are correct. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rose Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 Annoyingly, my favorite go to resource of The ABCs And All Their Tricks does not say, either. :( It does say that this is the entire list of words containing EY for long A: whey prey eyrie hey heyday bey obey disobey abeyance grey greyhound convey survey surveying surveyor purvey purveyor conveyer conveyer conveyance Grey made me wonder if there might be some other ey words that are retained in British spelling but are dropped in American spelling. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Targhee Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 (edited) That's interesting. I pronounce eyrie the same as eerie. Apparently both are correct.I always that is was like eye-re :O) ETA Oh my heavens, there errors in that sentence! Should read, "I always thought it was like eye-re." No one will believe any of my claims about correctness now! Edited September 25, 2017 by Targhee 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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