How do I reset the math button?

[historically accurate]

My 12 yo dd is in BA 5. She is in 7th grade; yes, we got behind, but it's where she is. Ever since last spring, every day we do math, she cries. She yells at me if I try to teach anything. She fights if I tell her she got one wrong.  She sits in the corner (we do math on the floor in front of a white board), and she just looks so defeated. She's actually really good at math, and she claims she doesn't want to switch to a different math. 

 

An example of how our days go: Today, I tried to zip it, so she said 52 for problem 97. I shook my head. She said, "It is 52!" I shook my head. Her eyes welled up with tears, and she said in a sad, little, pitiful voice, "It is so 52." I said, "No, that's not correct. Would you like my help?" She screamed at me, "No! I can do it myself! I don't want your help!"

 

On days older dd has an outside class, we do Hands on Equations or The Book of Perfectly Perilous Math. Those can bring tears but not every time.

 

I'm not sure how to make math fun or at least tolerable again. I try not to engage, but every single day, she pushes and pushes until I blow up, and then she bursts into tears and runs into her room screaming that she ruins everything. 

 

She's pretty emotional overall, but math seems to be a particular hot button right now.

 

Help me, please!!

[wapiti]

From the little you have written, this sounds more like an age/mood/phase/sleep/hormone thing than a math thing.  Is there any way she can correct her own work?  (I have a kiddo who did a lot of "Help me! NO DON'T TELL ME!!!" in middle school.  It wasn't the math :) )  ETA, maybe Alcumus for a bit?  one problem at a time and self-correcting...

 

(Also, fwiw, I would probably have put a 7th grader in AoPS Prealgebra rather than BA5, but it honestly doesn't matter as long as she likes the books.)

Edited September 19, 2017 by wapiti

[HomeAgain]

We do a lot of "okay.  Can you explain your method of getting there?"

 

It doesn't matter if the answer is right or wrong.  As he explains one of us will draw out what he is saying and usually the wrong answer is caught quickly.  If not, we put it aside, I make a mental note, and give a similar problem later as an example.  I'll let a few days pass and then give the same problem as a warm up question.

 

I don't know if that will work with BA, but it does with other programs.

 

ETA:  I don't say 'right' or 'wrong' because what I want him to take away from math is the need to have a logical and sound reasoning behind the answer.  Whether it's correct is second to whether he thought out each step correctly.

Edited September 19, 2017 by HomeAgain

[karenmsta]

That's so helpful, @beckyjo to hear my life in your words. And thanks for the insight into how to encourage mathematical thinking, not just correction @HomeAgain.

[wendyroo]

Are you doing the math at the same time she is?

 

Personally, I would stop looking at the answers at all.  Instead, just work on a problem until the two of you reach consensus.  Replace, "That's wrong" with "Hmm, that's not what I got."  And then discuss how you both worked the problem and what methods you could use to check your answers.

 

Like HomeAgain said, I try to emphasize that true math is not black and white, right or wrong arithmetic.  True math is experimenting with various problem solving methods.  It is discussion and collaboration.  It is creative and open ended.

 

Wendy

[Miss Tick]

"Explain to me how you got to your answer." I use that a lot.

"You are very good at math, but arithmetic is tripping you up on this one."

"I know you want to do this problem on your own, but this problem seems to be really frustrating you, can I give you a hint?"

 

I use a lot of this here. Some days work well, some days not as well.

 

At the beginning of the year we sat down after dinner and I told my dd that the most important thing to me about math is that she be successful. She is very smart, and I know she can do it, but it seems like what we are doing isn't working. I told her that I really like teaching her, and I want to keep teaching her, but not if it isn't working. I outlined the alternatives for her (a different program and two variations of online classes) and told her that the decision was up to her, because it wasn't going to work if she didn't want to do it. That discussion made a gigantic difference in how math happens here.

 

Good luck.

[Kuovonne]

I couldn't imagine using BA with a kid who is working below level and fighting math.

How about switching to something more independent and less discovery base,

something where the problems are setup where students are expected to be able to get

most of the answers by themselves the first time?

[klmama]

I know it's not popular here anymore, but I'd switch to Abeka. It's very straightforward, so you wouldn't have to be as hands-on, and she'd learn what she needs. Later, when her emotions are less of an issue and she gets her equilibrium back, she could go over the BA again for fun and for deeper mathematical thinking.

[Saddlemomma]

Okay, I going to be the odd one out.  I don't think it's a puberty thing; at least not all of it.  My DD has math anxiety.  She always has had it.  She does the exact same things you describe OP.  I tried all the things everyone is advising here.  Nothing worked  She just has math anxiety and probably always will.  She even tells me she lashes out at me because she is frustrated with herself for not being able to grasp Algebra and so on.

 

Last year, using CLE, she got up to book 6 before she started having problems, then the same old math "issues" showed up in force.  We never finished it during the school year because I slowed everything down and we routinely redid problems she didn't understand.  Nothing stuck.   Over the summer I hired a tutor.  He was good and I immediately noticed that DD relaxed and concentrated more.  She did well with the tutor, but when we started back up this fall to finish CLE, she got a "D" on her second quiz.  She blew up. All the anxieties returned four-fold.

 

The conclusion I came to was I couldn't be her teacher for math.  I needed to remove myself from the equation.  I also decided we were not going to proceed to Geometry this year (even though she was on Book 8 of CLE).  I want her to have a good grasp of Algebra before moving on.  So, even though I bought everything for Geometry, and after discussing the situation with her and DH, we purchased Mr. D. Math-Algebra and DD started it last week.  So far so good.  The best part is that Mr. D has two weekly live help sessions she can be a part of if she's having difficulty, or she can feel free to email his staff whenever she has a problem.  Not only that, but grading is done automatically as well.  YEAH!  I now have nothing to do with her math other than checking her records to see that she's progressing and doing the assignments.  I also check her grades regularly.  I haven't heard one complaint so far, but it's only been a week and a half.  

 

The thing I liked most about Mr. D. when I previewed some videos was that he presents things several different ways.  One thing my DD, as a linear thinker, had problems with was that the text would tell her one way to do it, but then when someone else showed her, they did it a different way.  That totally messed her up.  She HAD to do Algebra only one way, and we all know there are different ways to get to an answer in Algebra.

 

When I showed DD a sample video in Mr. D., at first she got all huffy because he was explaining a certain concept a certain way and she was like, "That's not right; it's not how I learned it; now I'm confused again.  However, then Mr. D. showed how to get the same answer a different way (the exact way DD learned from CLE) and then it was like the light bulb went on. "Oh, now I see. He actually explained it much better than CLE."  Mr. D. then went on to show it a third way.  Now DD understands that there are many ways to solve a problem.  This was a revelation to her despite my telling her the same thing repeatedly.  

 

Hopefully, this program will be the one that makes Algebra stick.  I'm cautiously optimistic, but it's too early to tell.  All I know is that I now realize math is something she needs to learn from someone else.  Sometimes that's all it takes. 

[daijobu]

 

 

(Also, fwiw, I would probably have put a 7th grader in AoPS Prealgebra rather than BA5, but it honestly doesn't matter as long as she likes the books.)

 

I can't say whether continuing in BA or switching to AoPS is a better idea.  But I can affirm via an email conversation I had with an AoPS author, that there is considerable overlap between AoPS PreA and BA level 5.  So level 5 is skippable if you need that.  

[historically accurate]

I thought I would come back and update. 

 

She finished the book she was doing in BA, which was 5B. We researched a whole bunch of curriculums together. She and I agreed to give Jousting Armadillos a try. She is loving it so far. Only 1 day have we had tears since she started it. It's not a full curriculum though (at least, I don't think so, since there aren't a whole lot of lessons), so we are using a public school text and Danica McKellar's books as backup on topics (as well as her HOE & Perilous Math days we already had). Don't know where we'll go from Armadillos, but she's happy for the moment.

 

So, it may have been a puberty thing (she's less emotional overall the past few weeks); it may have been the curriculum; maybe she just needed a change, I don't know exactly. Whatever it is, I'll take a happier 7th grader.

 

Thanks to everyone for talking me through it. 

[wendyroo]

I thought I would come back and update. 

 

She finished the book she was doing in BA, which was 5B. We researched a whole bunch of curriculums together. She and I agreed to give Jousting Armadillos a try. She is loving it so far. Only 1 day have we had tears since she started it. It's not a full curriculum though (at least, I don't think so, since there aren't a whole lot of lessons), so we are using a public school text and Danica McKellar's books as backup on topics (as well as her HOE & Perilous Math days we already had). Don't know where we'll go from Armadillos, but she's happy for the moment.

 

So, it may have been a puberty thing (she's less emotional overall the past few weeks); it may have been the curriculum; maybe she just needed a change, I don't know exactly. Whatever it is, I'll take a happier 7th grader.

 

Thanks to everyone for talking me through it. 

 

FYI, There are two more books in the Jousting Armadillo's series.

 

Wendy

[Momto4inSoCal]

Math was like that every single day for the past few years with DD. It was the most frustrating part of my day. This year I put her in an online math class and it's been amazing. Getting used to an online class has taken some getting used to but finally my daughter can do math on her own and actually understands it. Like a PP stated I don't think me teaching her math works. I don't know if it was just someone other than mom or the way the teacher explains it. I think from now on math will be outsourced.