Funerals, what religion..the living or the dead?

[Janeway]

At the visitation yesterday, well, I went early to take in flowers. This was at the funeral home. They let me see my mom then so I go to say my good byes alone. I returned later when visitation was going on. Then I took my husband and oldest son home. No one else was with us. Husband did not want to be there. Then 5 yr old heard her grandma (living one) was there and wanted to go back. We went back. It was at this point I noticed a Catholic cross and Rosary beads in there. Well, my mom is Lutheran and Dad is Catholic. None of us were confirmed in the Catholic church although three of us were Baptized in the Catholic church. My mother decided she wanted nothing to do with the Catholic church by the time I was 7 yrs old so we left. I really thought my mom would have a Lutheran funeral and my dad, Catholic. None of my siblings are Catholic nor have they attended Catholic Mass or anything related to it in my entire life since our mother switched us to the Lutheran church. Some have gone to Bible churches, but only the ones who live in the south. 

 

Apparently, planning the funeral was very difficult as my half sister and brother fought so much. Fortunately, long distance relatives stepped in and got it planned. And they could not agree on a church. I heard they wanted to find a pastor. In the end, now, the funeral is at the funeral home. When I saw the Rosary beads, I turned and tried to ask my aunt why there were Rosary beads in the coffin and my half sister turned out to be there (somehow, I didn't notice her standing to the side until this moment) and she just says in her gruff voice "because Mom was Catholic and she was a confirmed Catholic." Umm, no, she was not. And then "besides, Dad is Catholic." OK...(edited to add: this half sister was Baptized Lutheran, confirmed Lutheran, and as an adult, has chosen to have no religion, she has never identified as Catholic).

 

so this leads to the question...funerals are for the survivors. Whose religion should be respected in this? The one who died or the living? I don't think I would be happy to know (not that I would know) that my funeral ended up being a religion that I was definitely not. This whole thing is so confusing because the ONLY Catholic at the visitation and that will be at the funeral is Dad. And the funeral is not even Catholic. I guess the Catholic church didn't want to do it because Mom was not Catholic and never went there? I do not know. I know my grandma would not have been comfortable if her daughter were to have a Catholic funeral. My grandma wanted to find a pastor for the funeral. 

 

Obviously, I am not even going to touch this with a ten foot pole (in other words, I am not going to bring this up with them). But what do you think? Should the funerals be in the religion of the one who died or the one who survives? To me, it feels like it would be horribly disrespectful to not do a funeral in the religion of the one who died. But maybe I am wrong.

Edited September 19, 2017 by Janeway

[Guest]

I think a funeral should be in the religious traditions of the deceased.

Edited September 19, 2017 by Kinsa

[Farrar]

The deceased, unless the deceased wanted the traditions of their loved ones to be the more important thing because they knew they'd be gone.

 

Generally, this is yet another reason everyone should make their wishes clear before they die. And older people and anyone with a serious illness should really just go ahead and plan the funeral they want. It won't hasten your death. It's a gift you give your loved ones after you die not to have to make those decisions or fight about that stuff because you already said exactly what you wanted.

[mamaraby]

I think it should honor the deceased. As an atheist I think it would be incredibly dishonest and show a lack of care on the part of my religious loved ones if they had a religious ceremony for me. I realize that I could do nothing about that seeing as I was dead.

[Farrar]

I'll add, though perhaps it's obvious... the living who have different beliefs and traditions should additionally feel free to do whatever rituals and acts comfort them. If it helps them to attend their own services, talk to their own religious leaders, have their loved one put on a prayer list for their church, light candles at their church... whatever comforts them individually should be something everyone feels free to do in addition to giving their loved one the funeral that's in line with the loved one's desires and beliefs.

[Janeway]

I'll add, though perhaps it's obvious... the living who have different beliefs and traditions should additionally feel free to do whatever rituals and acts comfort them. If it helps them to attend their own services, talk to their own religious leaders, have their loved one put on a prayer list for their church, light candles at their church... whatever comforts them individually should be something everyone feels free to do in addition to giving their loved one the funeral that's in line with the loved one's desires and beliefs.

But putting a religious relic in a coffin that is not the religion of the person who died?

[Guest]

They did not perform a Catholic funeral ceremony, correct?

 

It seems to me like there is room for both. The main shindig/the actual laying to rest according to the wishes of the deceased, with some small things for the comfort of the living.

 

If the deceased left no wishes, then everyone will just have to do their best and hope visitors are gracious about it.

[ktgrok]

Um, was the funeral a Catholic funeral, or did someone just place a rosary with your mother? A rosary does not equal a Catholic  funeral. 

 

I think the funeral should be in the religion of the deceased, but I see no problem with someone placing a rosary with the deceased even if they are not catholic, perhaps it was one that had sentimental meaning to someone. Or was it that the funeral home put it there, thinking she was Catholic?

 

 

[Rosie_0801]

But putting a religious relic in a coffin that is not the religion of the person who died?

 

I think that's rude and if someone wants to do something like that, they should put it on their altar/mantlepiece at home.

[Guinevere]

But putting a religious relic in a coffin that is not the religion of the person who died?

Maybe it wasn't there as a display, but rather as a gift? Maybe someone felt moved or something and put their own in there?

[Elizabeth86]

It should be about the deceased.

[City Mouse]

I think it depend on the religious beliefs of the people organizing the funeral. Some have deep rooted beliefs that their religion is the "correct" one and that the dead person was misguided. At that point, they think that they are doing what is best to save that person's soul. (My interpretation only) although I disagree with those beliefs, I can respect that the person does have the best intentions in mind.

 

If a rosary is important to your father and gives him comfort, I see no problem putting it his wife's casket even though she would not care.

[Janeway]

Maybe it wasn't there as a display, but rather as a gift? Maybe someone felt moved or something and put their own in there?

They indicated that someone went and got the beads to put in there "because she was Catholic." But my mom always made it clear to me that she despised Catholicism and hated her time in the Catholic church, which was from that one marriage and for about ten years total, decades ago. 

 

I don't really care if someone is just trying to give her a gift that makes themselves feel comfortable, but I would never stick a cross in the coffin of my Jewish friend, or a bible in the coffin of my Hindu friend. It just seems wrong to leave that in there. I do not plan to bring it up with anyone. But really, it just seems wrong.

[Farrar]

But putting a religious relic in a coffin that is not the religion of the person who died?

 

I think that crosses a line. Anything a person wants to do that's personal to them at their house of worship or on their own. I think lighting a candle for someone who doesn't believe in doing that on your own time, saying a Catholic prayer with your own priest on on your own for a Methodist loved one - that sort of thing. Putting something in the coffin, unless the deceased wanted their loved ones to send their own tokens with them or something like that is something the person has done that is part of the funeral/burial, not on their own.

[marbel]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:

 

If the deceased doesn't leave instructions, then the funeral should be done in their faith, if known.  But if family members have different understandings of the deceased's faith, then there can be disagreements.  

 

When my mother died, we held the funeral in my (Presbyterian) church.  My mother had been raised Lutheran, converted to Catholicism, then after my dad died, declared herself a Protestant again. But everyone in my family agreed to having it done by my pastor.  If one or more of her children still considered themselves,and more to the point, our mother, as Catholic, we would have had to find a way to reconcile that.  

 

I would not have been upset if someone had put a rosary in my mother's casket.  I'd assume it was meant with good intentions, and, honestly, I don't believe at that point it matters.  

 

ETA after reading another post:  maybe it would not bother me because Catholics and Protestants share some core beliefs, namely Jesus Christ.  I guess I would be upset if someone put a religious token from a completely unrelated faith.   Actually at my mother's funeral I was bothered by one woman, the mother of a friend of mine, who was an atheist and claimed to despise Christianity, but sang out the hymns quite heartily.  I knew she didn't believe a word of what she was singing, in fact hated what the words were about, and that to me seemed disrespectful.  

Edited September 19, 2017 by marbel

[Bluegoat]

I think they should generally be according to the wishes or tradition of the deceased.  That being said, I think it's best if that person, when making plans, keeps in mind the needs of the family members as well.  I've seen a trend in the last few years of people making decisions that kind of leave the family members in the lurch - either told not to have any kind of acknowledgement, or conditions that are difficult to create (take my ashes to my hometown in a different country), waiting for all the family members to arrive at a much later date, and so on.  

 

I also think I would in practice be inclined to be very generous if a family wanted to have some kind of small ceremonial aspect relating to their own beliefs.  I'd think it should be relatively discrete, but in the end it doesn't harm the deceased.  But I think that should be in addition to any kind of memorial or service the deceased wanted.

 

As for the rosary - it might just have been a well-meaning error.  I'd not worry about it - no one is going to make her use it.  Rosaries aren't used only by Catholics anyway.

 

 

[creekland]

This whole idea makes me glad I don't give a hoot what happens after I'm done with my body.  Do whatever.  I'd be quite content if my body were left out for the vultures to recycle at that point.  I'm done with it.  I don't think anything someone puts in a coffin will matter in the afterlife either.  (I do believe in an afterlife, but I don't think I'll be stopped at the gates because there's something in my coffin or the vultures recycled my body or anything in between.)

 

To the OP, in your case, I'd take some consolation in thinking a friend or relative just wanted the best for your mom even if their beliefs disagreed with hers.  It doesn't sound like it was a "Catholic funeral."

[QueenCat]

Maybe it wasn't there as a display, but rather as a gift? Maybe someone felt moved or something and put their own in there?

 

I've seen many people put tokens in coffins at visitations.

[QueenCat]

They indicated that someone went and got the beads to put in there "because she was Catholic." But my mom always made it clear to me that she despised Catholicism and hated her time in the Catholic church, which was from that one marriage and for about ten years total, decades ago. 

 

I don't really care if someone is just trying to give her a gift that makes themselves feel comfortable, but I would never stick a cross in the coffin of my Jewish friend, or a bible in the coffin of my Hindu friend. It just seems wrong to leave that in there. I do not plan to bring it up with anyone. But really, it just seems wrong.

 

Just find a way to comfort yourself. If others need to do other things, so be it. If your half-sister thought she was Catholic, is it really that huge of a deal. It's not like it was a Catholic funeral. Your own mourning will be easier if you don't less this kind of stuff work you up.

[Arcadia]

Funerals in my family are always the wishes and religion of the deceased. My relatives are pretty loud about their wishes and we have many different religions in my family.

 

Most of us (cousins) went to Catholic school and see the rosary as a catholic symbol. So my Methodist cousin who went to catholic schools for 12 years would be offended if she passed and someone put a rosary in her coffin. My relatives do believe in the existence of souls and ghosts.

 

ETA:

For my family culture wise, nothing "extra" that doesn't belong to the deceased goes into the coffin. It is considered as a bad omen.

Edited September 19, 2017 by Arcadia

[unsinkable]

I don't recall a Catholic wake where the deceased person's hands were not HOLDING a rosary.

 

You give the funeral parlor the deceased's rosary when you make arrangements. Or if the deceased doesn't have one, or you can't find it right away, the funeral home will provide one.

 

Other rosaries are sometimes pinned to the coffin liner or added to coffin or placed on top of the closed bottom half. Then, before the coffin is closed, the funeral home with remove the rosary the deceased is holding if the family wants to keep it.

 

So it sounds like an afterthought rosary addition.

Edited September 19, 2017 by unsinkable

[unsinkable]

(I hit post before I was done.)

 

I'm very for your loss. But I am glad to read that you did not miss the visitation and funeral, like you thought you might have when you first found out.

 

I think time set aside for goodbyes are very helpful for processing what happened and for our grief journeys.

 

:grouphug:

[Janeway]

I guess what bothers me more was my sister's crassness and nastiness and lack of respect for anyone. Apparently, she knew she was dying for months and my brother had to track her down over and over again (which is what I was trying to do) because our sister was being so awful. My brother takes care of Dad so I am assuming when my brother says that, he means my Dad was also limited access. My sister was so awful that when my mom was hospitalized while Dad was hospitalized (he was in the hospital first) she refused to allow Mom to go to the same hospital. And when dad was in a rehab place, and then mom seemed to be recovering and needed to be moved to a rehab place, my sister would not allow it. 

 

I hate to make my will so that someone who is not my own child is in charge of me in my later years, (I have an advanced directive and all that stuff, but right now, it is a good friend listed, I just assumed I would change that to my own children as they become adults) but it would seem to me that it might be best to have someone less close to the situation in charge of things in the end so that one child cannot alienate the other. 

 

I wonder how long my dad has left. In other words, how long before there is a death where the person in charge is the other sibling. I am sure it will be just as pleasant. Thank God my long distance relatives are here this time.

 

Last night, as I fell asleep, I was dreaming about a conversation with my mom. Specifically, I was talking to my mom and saying something about "can you believe they are acting this way?" and my mom was disgusted...and then I was jolted back awake because I remembered she is dead. And there won't be a conversation like that again.

[goldberry]

My dad's father was decidedly un-religious.  But when he died, the daughter's husband gave an extremely religious talk and said that "in his heart dead-guy loved and accepted Jesus".  My dad was furious and said it was utter BS.  

 

I also consider it to be very disrespectful.

[Crimson Wife]

 so this leads to the question...funerals are for the survivors. Whose religion should be respected in this? The one who died or the living?

 

No, the RECEPTION is for the survivors. The funeral is a religious sacrament that should be done in the deceased's house of worship if he/she belonged to a faith.

 

My mom is Protestant and it wouldn't matter if the only surviving family members were Catholic, we would have the funeral at her church and not ours.

[lauraw4321]

My dad's father was decidedly un-religious.  But when he died, the daughter's husband gave an extremely religious talk and said that "in his heart dead-guy loved and accepted Jesus".  My dad was furious and said it was utter BS.  

 

I also consider it to be very disrespectful.

 

I had a similar circumstance with a friend from high school that died after college in a car wreck. Her spouse was a total wreck and unable to plan the funeral, so he handed it over to a young evangelical Christian type. The guy basically preached a fire and brimstone sermon. It was so inappropriate and disrespectful, I had a hard time sitting for it. 

 

Funerals should honor the wishes of the deceased to the best of the living's ability.

[Crimson Wife]

Reading further through the replies, I would definitely not be okay with someone putting Rosary beads in my Protestant mom's casket. She does not pray the Rosary in life as it is not part of her denomination. They do have a type of prayer beads but it's slightly different style with fewer beads (33?)

[MercyA]

I have a great deal of respect for many aspects of the Catholic church. However--no offense meant to anyone--I would strongly object to having a rosary placed in my casket. It's not the same thing as a regular crucifix or cross necklace. I associate it with the specific prayers recited when people pray the rosary, some of which are antithetical to my beliefs. 

 

Obviously I wouldn't care at that point, and it would have zero impact on the state of my soul, but it's just not a final statement I want to make, IYKWIM. 

 

I'm really sorry you're going through such a rough time, Janeway.  :grouphug:

[Bluegoat]

I have a great deal of respect for many aspects of the Catholic church. However--no offense meant to anyone--I would strongly object to having a rosary placed in my casket. It's not the same thing as a regular crucifix or cross necklace. I associate it with the specific prayers recited when people pray the rosary, some of which are antithetical to my beliefs. 

 

Obviously I wouldn't care at that point, and it would have zero impact on the state of my soul, but it's just not a final statement I want to make, IYKWIM. 

 

I'm really sorry you're going through such a rough time, Janeway.  :grouphug:

 

I guess what I wonder though, is how likely it would be that someone would do that with bad intent.  More likely clueless, or just well-meaning in a generalized way.

[prairiewindmomma]

Your siblings sound like terribly charming people.  Hope you get through this with grace. 

[MercyA]

I guess what I wonder though, is how likely it would be that someone would do that with bad intent.  More likely clueless, or just well-meaning in a generalized way.

 

Of course. I doubt anyone would have a nefarious reason for placing a rosary in a casket. :)  I don't think it would make me angry if I knew someone was going to put one in mine. It's just not something I would choose for myself, and I think the deceased's wishes (as far as they are known) should be respected.

 

IDK. Somehow the thought of someone doing something to my mother's casket that she would not have wanted is worse than the thought of someone doing something similar to mine. 

[MercyA]

dp

Edited September 19, 2017 by MercyA

[Zinnia]

No, the RECEPTION is for the survivors. The funeral is a religious sacrament that should be done in the deceased's house of worship if he/she belonged to a faith.

 

My mom is Protestant and it wouldn't matter if the only surviving family members were Catholic, we would have the funeral at her church and not ours.

Like when people go over to the house afterwards?

 

That hasn't really been our experience. We have visitation the night before (or right before, depending), the funeral in the church/funeral home, then the graveside. And then close friends and family go back to the house. But the whole thing seems to be for the living. I am not from a particularly liturgical tradition, though.

[marbel]

No, the RECEPTION is for the survivors. The funeral is a religious sacrament that should be done in the deceased's house of worship if he/she belonged to a faith.

 

My mom is Protestant and it wouldn't matter if the only surviving family members were Catholic, we would have the funeral at her church and not ours.

 

This all depends on the people, cultures, and religions involved.  It is not a "religious sacrament" for everyone or every Christian faith. 

[MinivanMom]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:

 

If the deceased doesn't leave instructions, then the funeral should be done in their faith, if known.  But if family members have different understandings of the deceased's faith, then there can be disagreements.  

 

When my mother died, we held the funeral in my (Presbyterian) church.  My mother had been raised Lutheran, converted to Catholicism, then after my dad died, declared herself a Protestant again. But everyone in my family agreed to having it done by my pastor.  If one or more of her children still considered themselves,and more to the point, our mother, as Catholic, we would have had to find a way to reconcile that.  

 

I would not have been upset if someone had put a rosary in my mother's casket.  I'd assume it was meant with good intentions, and, honestly, I don't believe at that point it matters.  

 

ETA after reading another post:  maybe it would not bother me because Catholics and Protestants share some core beliefs, namely Jesus Christ.  I guess I would be upset if someone put a religious token from a completely unrelated faith.   Actually at my mother's funeral I was bothered by one woman, the mother of a friend of mine, who was an atheist and claimed to despise Christianity, but sang out the hymns quite heartily.  I knew she didn't believe a word of what she was singing, in fact hated what the words were about, and that to me seemed disrespectful.  

 

This.

 

I had to plan a funeral for someone who had made several religious changes over the last few years of her life. It was horrible. Two different sides were sure that they were the ones who knew what she really wanted. I worked out a compromise (pastor from church A officiated at the funeral home, but only gave a general eulogy and then the luncheon after the burial was hosted by church B). My goal was to do whatever brought the most comfort to the most people so I thought it was a good compromise, but neither side was completely happy with the outcome. 

 

OP, I am so sorry you are dealing with this. I don't know the family situation, but I think it helps if you think that people are probably trying to do what they think she would have wanted. They may be wrong about what she wanted, but their intentions are probably good.

 

For everyone else, please let your family know your wishes, especially if you have made religious changes over time. You may think you're avoiding conflict by not saying, "Hey, I'm done with religion x, I want a secular memorial service," but the kinder thing is to let people know what you want in advance and - better yet - put it down in writing.

[Tanaqui]

The funeral should be in the deceased's religious tradition unless they explicitly say otherwise or the survivors have a VERY GOOD reason to suspect that the deceased would not like it.

 

Putting rosary beads in your mother's casket was tacky, no doubt - but it didn't harm her and people can do very strange things when grieving. And even if your sister is an awful person, she's probably grieving in her own way.

 

Normally I'd say that I wouldn't start a family fight over this. In this particular case, I'll say that I wouldn't prolong contact with your sister in order to fight over this. She isn't going to understand your point of view, and she isn't going to care. And you'll only be more upset trying to talk to her about it, so don't bother. Just don't waste your breath.

 

I'm very sorry for your loss.

[FaithManor]

These things are really tough. What sister did was not appropriate at all because funerals for those from liturgical Christians as well as those from other faiths in which a funeral rite is a religious service, this is disrespectful. But let me say this, people do some pretty off the wall things when grieving, and often get very inward wanting only those things that bring them personal comfort to take place or be commemorated. So she may have done it with ill will, an "in your face" to her mother if they had a bad relationship, or more likely because the rosary beads had meaning to her and the act of placing them in the casket was comforting. Not appropriate, but potentially not thinking about it either.

 

To be honest, I have seen some family things go wrong at open casket visitations and funerals so I am not a fan of them. It is just such an upsetting time and some people really do poorly around the body.

 

All I can say is that with the number of funeral threads we have had this year, hopefully we all remember the take away lesson of making things easier for our loved ones by leaving written instructions and even if possible setting aside funds for the costs so that there is also not a financial bind on the survivors.

[Janeway]

I would say that the most disturbing thing that came out of all this is that my sister told everyone that she told me that my mom was dying. But she never did. She did however tell my mom's coworkers and relatives that live long distance so they were able to travel to say their goodbyes. My mom has been in and out of consciousness for the last few weeks until she finally didn't wake up and died. They knew she was going to die. But my sister withheld this information on purpose and assured everyone that she had told me.

 

But her daughters have been very nice to me. They're very sweet people. I feel very very sorry for them. I do not think they know that I was not aware when she was dying, but the one niece is the one who post it on social media to let me know that mom had died.

[Guest]

I would say that the most disturbing thing that came out of all this is that my sister told everyone that she told me that my mom was dying. But she never did. She did however tell my mom's coworkers and relatives that live long distance so they were able to travel to say their goodbyes. My mom has been in and out of consciousness for the last few weeks until she finally didn't wake up and died. They knew she was going to die. But my sister withheld this information on purpose and assured everyone that she had told me.

 

But her daughters have been very nice to me. They're very sweet people. I feel very very sorry for them. I do not think they know that I was not aware when she was dying, but the one niece is the one who post it on social media to let me know that mom had died.

Rotten.

I'm glad your niece at least was able to let you know, but that is just rotten otherwise.

[Guest]

I made a double post but I'll use the edited space here to say that the funeral should be according to the practice of the departed.  I am still sad about a man from our parish, J, who returned to the Orthodox Church in his last 2 years of life.  He was the sweetest person.  But his daughter hated any church/religion at all and was exceedingly nasty to anyone who visited him; she actually spat on our priest.  When J died, even though he had told our priest and a bunch of people that he wanted an Orthodox funeral (with the body present), within an hour of his death, his daughter had his body hauled away and cremated, and she took everything that was ours that we had loaned him (icons, Bibles and so on) and we never saw her again.  She didn't even call the priest or anyone from the parish.  My dh went to visit him and he was just...gone.  

 

 

It still makes me so sad.  He was a gem.

 

And the POINT is:  ***Put your wishes in writing and get them in the hands of people you trust to do what you wish!***  I'm not shouting at you, Janeway.  Just using the occasion to shout because it made me mad what happened in this situation, and it makes me mad what you are going through.  

 

:0(

 

[Pam in CT]

Whatever the faith affiliation, if any, of the deceased is... how the body is treated is the last expression of the agency of the deceased.  If the person *was* affiliated with a faith tradition, then the body should be treated in accordance with that; if the person was not, the body should still be treated in accordance with the person's wishes, be that burial or cremation etc. 

 

(It's an excellent idea to express such wishes while still alive, lol.)

 

 

I agree with several pp that receptions and other later rituals are most usefully thought of as for the grievers left behind.  And to the extent that there are different traditions, or rituals, or personal expressions, that help enable the living to work through their grief... hopefully the extended family can find a way to make room for them.

 

 

 

 

OP, I am sorry about your loss.  I hope you find peace.

[gardenmom5]

I made a double post but I'll use the edited space here to say that the funeral should be according to the practice of the departed.  I am still sad about a man from our parish, J, who returned to the Orthodox Church in his last 2 years of life.  He was the sweetest person.  But his daughter hated any church/religion at all and was exceedingly nasty to anyone who visited him; she actually spat on our priest.  When J died, even though he had told our priest and a bunch of people that he wanted an Orthodox funeral (with the body present), within an hour of his death, his daughter had his body hauled away and cremated, and she took everything that was ours that we had loaned him (icons, Bibles and so on) and we never saw her again.  She didn't even call the priest or anyone from the parish.  My dh went to visit him and he was just...gone.  

 

 

It still makes me so sad.  He was a gem.

 

And the POINT is:  ***Put your wishes in writing and get them in the hands of people you trust to do what you wish!***  I'm not shouting at you, Janeway.  Just using the occasion to shout because it made me mad what happened in this situation, and it makes me mad what you are going through.  

 

:0(

 

this.

I'm sorry J's dd was so filled with hate, becasue that's what it is.  that is a profound lack of respect for her father.  considering how fast she acted - it is entirely probable his wishes wouldn't have been carried out even if they were in writing with someone who would have respected them.  by the time anyone else would have known, it would have been too late.

 

My mother was not religious (she was agnostic) - I am very.  I was in charge of the funeral and I did seek to keep it respectful of her.  

 

the only religious item was singing the Lord's Prayer because my mother had been repeating it so much in the hospital the nurse mentioned it to me. so, it must have meant something to her.

 

[StephanieZ]

I think it's entirely up to the closest surviving relative (spouse, or children if no surviving spouse), and I wouldn't dispute their decisions, even if I didn't like them. 

 

That said, I think that the *right* thing to do, IMHO, is honor the wishes of the deceased. If they had an expressed preference, then go with that. If they were "in name only" religion or a "casual" something or other, then I'd be pretty loosey-goosey about what I did for their service. If they had strong specific preferences, then I'd do my best to abide by them.

 

 

My brother and I are both firm atheists and despise churches. Nonetheless, we hired a pastor to pray/bless/speak at Mom's burial, even though his words were meaningless (and annoying) to us, because Mom was a churchgoer. Just like I'd often taken Mom to church because it meant something to her, I got her a pastor for her (tiny, family only, far away family plot) burial, because it seemed to me to be something she'd have wanted. At her (larger, in her adopted home town) memorial service, we held it at a (non church) location that was meaningful to Mom and also meaningful (and inoffensive) to us . . . There was no God-stuff there other than a few speakers/mourners who might have said something or other. Essentially, we honored Mom's wishes, her religion, and her life in ways that made sense to all of us. I'm sure Mom would have approved. (That approval is what I made sure to plan around . . . along with the comfort and peace of her survivors . . . ) My brother and I are fans of cremation . . . if it were up to just us -- as it legally was, but, anyway . . . we would have had her cremated and then her cremains buried at the family plot where she already had a head stone . . . but my aunt (her only sibling) felt strongly that Mom would have wanted to be buried in a casket . . . So, to honor her sister's wish (and her expressed confidence that is what Mom wanted, although I personally doubt that), we went ahead and had her embalmed/open casket/transported across several states . . . Because, the peace and comfort of Mom's sister seemed to be in the balance . . . whereas my brother and I really didn't care *that much*. 

So, anyway, it's all a balance. 

 

 

 

 

[3 ladybugs]

I am a baptized, confirmed (happened the same day as I was an adult) Lutheran and DH was a cradle catholic. We were married Catholic. We are all lutheran now. ODS was baptized Catholic but YDS was baptized Lutheran. 

 

I would be pretty mad if someone assumed I was Catholic because I was for a short period of my life and I expressed (as I do) my dislike of the Catholic faith. Ordinarily I would say that a funeral is ONLY for the living but it is also has to be about the deceased. Talking about them being things they weren't is a disservice to them. 

[teachermom2834]

My mom was Baptist but hadn't attended a Baptist church in 40 years. My dad was Catholic and the kids attended Catholic schools and are all still practicing Catholics. My mom would attend sacraments and be gracious but to her last days she was pretty anti-Catholic. She died with no preparations. My dad was Grand Knight of the Knights of Columbus in his parish and a big volunteer for Catholic Charities. When Mom died there was a funeral service (not a mass, just a service)at my dad's Catholic Church. Her ashes were placed in the columbarium at my parish even though she was neither a catholic nor a parishioner.

 

It was the right balance. The Catholic Church is the only affiliation any of us have and it was meaningful for my dad to have his friends and parish take care of him. But we did not do anything specifically Catholic (no rosary as part of the service, we wouldn't have put one in a casket if she had one, no prayer cards with specifically Catholic prayers. That would have seemed odd and disprespectful to her siblings who are all serious evangelicals. We were able to have a church service while not doing things that would seem disingenuous for my mom.

 

My mom, for her part, always said she did not care what happened to her body. I don't think she would have cared. If she had a church home we would have done a service there but she didn't . A funeral home service would have been costly. My dad's church and my church took care of us during this time. My mom would have wanted that.

 

Though I probably would have fought someone who tried to have a rosary service because my mom would have so very much been annoyed by that.

[Guest]

snip...  it is entirely probable his wishes wouldn't have been carried out even if they were in writing with someone who would have respected them.  by the time anyone else would have known, it would have been too late.

...snip

 

If I had the slightest notion that my dh (or in his absence, ds) would not provide me with an Orthodox funeral, I would not hesitate to name someone else the executor of my final wishes.  That can be done.  

[Ellie]

I guess what bothers me more was my sister's crassness and nastiness and lack of respect for anyone. Apparently, she knew she was dying for months and my brother had to track her down over and over again (which is what I was trying to do) because our sister was being so awful. My brother takes care of Dad so I am assuming when my brother says that, he means my Dad was also limited access. My sister was so awful that when my mom was hospitalized while Dad was hospitalized (he was in the hospital first) she refused to allow Mom to go to the same hospital. And when dad was in a rehab place, and then mom seemed to be recovering and needed to be moved to a rehab place, my sister would not allow it. 

 

I hate to make my will so that someone who is not my own child is in charge of me in my later years, (I have an advanced directive and all that stuff, but right now, it is a good friend listed, I just assumed I would change that to my own children as they become adults) but it would seem to me that it might be best to have someone less close to the situation in charge of things in the end so that one child cannot alienate the other. 

 

I wonder how long my dad has left. In other words, how long before there is a death where the person in charge is the other sibling. I am sure it will be just as pleasant. Thank God my long distance relatives are here this time.

 

Last night, as I fell asleep, I was dreaming about a conversation with my mom. Specifically, I was talking to my mom and saying something about "can you believe they are acting this way?" and my mom was disgusted...and then I was jolted back awake because I remembered she is dead. And there won't be a conversation like that again.

 

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

 

[gardenmom5]

If I had the slightest notion that my dh (or in his absence, ds) would not provide me with an Orthodox funeral, I would not hesitate to name someone else the executor of my final wishes.  That can be done.  

 

from what you said - the dd had already had him cremated and gotten rid of things before other significant people even knew about it.      it's very sad.

 

if you die in a hosptial - and have given them all your paperwork - then they would only release your body to who your papers designate.  that person will have control.  always good.  the hospital required a new set every. single. time.  if you die at home - it's different.  there, you need to have someone who will respect your wishes because they can bypass everything if they move fast enough.

 

considering your dh and son, I assume, are both orthodox, I don't think you have an issue.

 

my mother hadn't told me much of what she wanted (probably nothing). I knew her feelings (I also knew her death was going to be very hard on my sister who did need "something") - but I had to fight my brother over everything the entire time.  the  &^%*^&%&^*%^&   how sad is it I'm glad my mother is dead so he can't manipulate her anymore - he was so brazen he did it in front of her drs  (they stepped in) - who told me.   yeah - I'm still disgusted with him for what he did to her. 

I made dh take me away for a weekend when it was all over just to recover from him.

[Lanny]

I think the funeral should be the religion the person who passed away identified with. Not the religion of their survivors, if different.  

[Guest]

from what you said - the dd had already had him cremated and gotten rid of things before other significant people even knew about it.      it's very sad.

 

if you die in a hosptial - and have given them all your paperwork - then they would only release your body to who your papers designate.  that person will have control.  always good.  the hospital required a new set every. single. time.  if you die at home - it's different.  there, you need to have someone who will respect your wishes because they can bypass everything if they move fast enough. v ...snip

 

Yes, this is what happened.  But if J had a) put his wishes in writing and b) designated someone other than his daughter, whom he knew to be hostile not only to the church but to him, as his final executor, that would have happened.  

 

But I know you know all this.  I just wanted to be clear for those who are in a sad situation of being estranged from those people whom everyone would just *assume* by natural law to be "the right person."  

 

:0(