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JAWM People from Other Nations


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What's with the ads?

#1 MommyLiberty5013

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 09:06 PM

Photographing my kids.

We've been traveling for nearly two weeks out west and about five days in Yellowstone. I have four light skinned, blue eyed, blond or brown haired kids. Some middle aged Asian women were chasing, yes chasing, my kids to get their pics!

I would say "No!" and step in front of my kids. One woman tried to go around me and snap the pic at another angle.

I told my kids if they saw someone taking their photo who wasn't dad or mom to turn their back.

It's beyond obnoxious. Are Asian tourists advised that this is unacceptable?

Edited by MommyLiberty5013, 13 September 2017 - 09:11 PM.

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#2 Junie

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 09:18 PM

:grouphug:

 

We've had a similar situation.  It is unnerving.


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#3 Quill

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 09:34 PM

This happened to me at a pumpkin patch once when my kids were cute little blonde preschool/toddlers. It was so very odd.
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#4 Janeway

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 09:37 PM

I would have grabbed her camera/phone and smashed it.

#5 Moxie

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 09:42 PM

I would have grabbed her camera/phone and smashed it.


Omg, so nuts. You would, rightly, be charged with a crime.
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#6 Lady Florida.

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 09:48 PM

I agree it's unnerving but it's also legal. I found that out when ds was little and we were at a local playground, and I saw a young man taking pictures of him. I confronted him and he said he was in a photography class at one of the high schools. I called the school to confirm and that's when I found out it's perfectly legal. I did suggest that the teacher tell his students to talk with parents and ask permission even though they didn't have to - just to help ease the parents' minds. 

 

So while it's upsetting they're within their legal rights to take photos of anyone, any age, in a public place.

 

Sorry. I know this is a JAWM, and I am agreeing with you that it's upsetting, Just saying it's also perfectly legal. 


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#7 Arcadia

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 09:49 PM

Are Asian tourists advised that this is unacceptable?

The tour guide would usually let them know that not everyone likes to be photographed but people forget when they see babies or toddlers. The American born teens I know do that too in between taking selfies and photos of other people's pets.

As for why Asian tourist would take pictures of other people's kids, this link's comments/answers explains decently well. https://www.quora.co...otos-of-my-baby

Edited by Arcadia, 13 September 2017 - 09:53 PM.

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#8 Janeway

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 10:03 PM

Omg, so nuts. You would, rightly, be charged with a crime.

I meant I would do that if they were being as aggressive toward my children as the OP described. I would do what it takes to protect my children. The tourist would be welcome to pay to return to this country to testify against me in court in a couple years when the case got there. But anyone who is as aggressive as the tourists described in the original post would not likely get much sympathy in court.

#9 Lady Florida.

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 10:09 PM

I meant I would do that if they were being as aggressive toward my children as the OP described. I would do what it takes to protect my children. The tourist would be welcome to pay to return to this country to testify against me in court in a couple years when the case got there. But anyone who is as aggressive as the tourists described in the original post would not likely get much sympathy in court.

 

Actually you're the one who wouldn't get sympathy in court. I already agreed that it's upsetting to have your child photographed in public as I know from experience. However, they haven't touched the children, made verbal threats, or anything else of the sort. And what they did was legal. The one who grabs the phone or camera and smashes it would legally be the aggressor. 


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#10 Renthead Mommy

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 10:13 PM

On our china tour we had about 8 kids 6 and under.  4 of them were blonde, blondes, one was dark hair (and got left alone) and my son was a dark dirty blonde to almost brown at that point.  The would run up and take pictures.  The one little girl had ringlet curles on top of it, so they really wanted her picture. It is a more in your personal space society, but sometimes they got a little pushy about it.  Their was a family with an older teen who was black with our group as well.  They got similar treatment with the photos, but I don't think they were as pushy with them as they were adults.  But the daughter had incredible hair.  It was  ten years ago so I don't remember exactly, but she had braids or twists or something along those lines.  They were fascinated with her hair!  It was quite beautiful and I remember she was very pretty, but it was just so different from what they are used to seeing. 

 

I do have a really neat pictures of the kids sitting on the floor at the airport playing some little game.  On one side of them are about 10-12 Chinese people grouped together all taking pictures of the kids.  So I took a picture of all the people taking pictures of the kids.  It was sort of neat and weird at the same time.  But they were very nice and non obtrusive about it at the airport.  The places we had the biggest issues were the tourist places.   Just like us, the Chinese had come in on tourist buses from somewhere else.  Seeing the kids was all part of the vacation sightseeing to us.  It was less an issue in the city, shops and airports.  


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#11 MommyLiberty5013

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 10:34 PM

Here's what gets me... I know it's a public place. So if you must photograph my kids then do so at a distance with zoom or out of their and my space. It still enrages me, but whatever, it's out of my control legally.

These people were in my kids' personal space. Once when I saw it happening I loudly shouted "No!" And jumped in front of my son. Another time I blocked a woman from getting a good shot and she proceeded to try and outsmart my movements to take his picture. These examples are out right violations of private and personal space of minors.

So no I didn't smash her camera, however, it's darn near close to that when they get into touching space of my kids and my family. My children aren't the same as mud pots or bison.

Unacceptable. I'm going to write letters to the nations' embassies in D.C.. it's THAT bad.

Edited by MommyLiberty5013, 13 September 2017 - 10:36 PM.

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#12 nixpix5

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 10:35 PM

Overall, the innocent appreciation for differences of eye and hair color doesn't bother me but strangers having pictures of my children in the age of Internet does bother me. There have been so many instances of people using images of children and families for nefarious purposes. I think laws around this type of thing need to be rethought.

I mean PETA sued a photographer over a monkeys right to own property for a selfie the monkey took on the photographer's camera. How can this ludicrous issue land in court but the image of someone's minors not? My head literally spins from the craziness sometimes.
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#13 Squiddles

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 10:53 PM

It goes both ways... Americans take pictures of cute little Asian beggars in the streets all the time, they probably thought it was culturally acceptable because they see tourists in their home countries doing then same things..

Agreeing with you though that it's awful


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#14 ChocolateReign

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 11:07 PM

Overall, the innocent appreciation for differences of eye and hair color doesn't bother me but strangers having pictures of my children in the age of Internet does bother me. There have been so many instances of people using images of children and families for nefarious purposes. I think laws around this type of thing need to be rethought.

I mean PETA sued a photographer over a monkeys right to own property for a selfie the monkey took on the photographer's camera. How can this ludicrous issue land in court but the image of someone's minors not? My head literally spins from the craziness sometimes.

 

Oddly enough, PETA used the avenue of property rights (I believe that was it anyway) which was an interesting angle to take.

 

Realistically, there is not going to be any court decision which fully protects privacy in a public space as it would be nearly impossible to enforce. It is the same reason that security cameras can video you on a public street without your consent.


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#15 Tanaqui

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 11:10 PM

The truth is that you have no expectation of privacy in a public place. Since you don't speak 100 languages, and you aren't likely to spend your life inside your own home, option three is to make the best of it.

 

(And this isn't even the weirdest thing that can happen. I have a friend who swears a stranger once got down and started praying at his child's feet.)


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#16 Ali in OR

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 11:48 PM

When we were in Yosemite with young blond children you could see that they were something new and different to Asian tourists. One politely asked to take a picture and we allowed it. There were no creepy vibes, maybe because it wasn't just one person reacting to them, but clearly a cultural thing as lots of different parties responded similarly. If they are polite and respectful I see no harm in being open and friendly. Take a picture of everyone all together. Build world peace one photo at a time.


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#17 PhotoGal

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 12:13 AM

This happens to my son every time we go to China and I think it is adorable. No one has ever been aggressive about it, however. There was one woman at the great wall who was a little pushy, but still friendly. Actually, it is kind of nice for him to get special attention because here in the U.S. when the kids were little, people were always going on and on about his cute Chinese sister. They were always like "she is so cute!" and I was like "Yes, they are BOTH so cute."  :)

 

In general, I would just consider it a cultural difference and not get too upset about it. It probably took you by surprise because it wasn't something that you are used to. But in other cultures it is totally acceptable. 

 

As a small example going the other way, here in the U.S. it would be totally acceptable to give a gift of nice smelling fancy soaps. However, some people in China would find that gift very offensive because in some parts of China a gift of soap implies that the receiver is dirty and really needs to bathe. One would hope that the receiver would find out the cultural difference and not be outraged over it.


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#18 Jean in Newcastle

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 12:18 AM

As a blonde child growing up in Asia I had my picture taken all the time. It wouldn't bother me in the slightest.


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#19 nixpix5

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 12:45 AM

Oddly enough, PETA used the avenue of property rights (I believe that was it anyway) which was an interesting angle to take.

Realistically, there is not going to be any court decision which fully protects privacy in a public space as it would be nearly impossible to enforce. It is the same reason that security cameras can video you on a public street without your consent.


Good point. Still bugs me but you are absolutely right.

#20 KungFuPanda

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 12:52 AM

Try being a redhead walking down the street in Seoul. This was before camera phones, but an awful lot of people were carrying cameras.
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#21 Ottakee

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 02:38 AM

I agree it can be upsetting but US tourists take pictures of kids in foreign countries all of the time. Even here in the US so many tourists try to take pictures of the cute Amish children even though most Amish do no believe in having their picture taken.
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#22 Elizabeth86

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 05:27 AM

I would like to see someone try this with my dh around. It would not go over well.

#23 Elizabeth86

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 05:28 AM

Oh and yellowstone. Wah I am so jealous. I have always wanted to go.

#24 Quill

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 06:18 AM

This is interesting. I did not know that blonde hair was the particular attraction. When my kids were little, they were blonde and - sorry for the overdose in mom bias, but - my son had the most adorable white-blonde hair. I guess this was why the Asian group of tourists were falling over themselves to photograph my kids with their pumpkins.

I thought it was weird but I didn't defend against it with much emphasis, although this was also before the explosion of social media and web-sharing. It might bother me more now.
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#25 SparklyUnicorn

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 06:19 AM

Geesh, that's so weird. 

 

 


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#26 Moxie

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 06:30 AM

Could be worse. My pasty pale sister was in the Peace Corp in India. Every time she walked down the street, strangers would run up to touch her arms.

#27 QueenCat

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 08:12 AM

I would have grabbed her camera/phone and smashed it.

 

Taking photos of people, even against their wishes, in a public place is not a crime. What you suggest would probably be considered assault as it involves taking it off of someone's body. It'd be stupid and insane.


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#28 QueenCat

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 08:14 AM

I meant I would do that if they were being as aggressive toward my children as the OP described. I would do what it takes to protect my children. The tourist would be welcome to pay to return to this country to testify against me in court in a couple years when the case got there. But anyone who is as aggressive as the tourists described in the original post would not likely get much sympathy in court.

 

Assaulting tourists for taking pictures would be who the jury thought was crazy, not the tourist. It's pretty common for tourists to do this, whether you like it or not. They didn't try to touch the children, which would be a totally different story.


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#29 QueenCat

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 08:16 AM

It goes both ways... Americans take pictures of cute little Asian beggars in the streets all the time, they probably thought it was culturally acceptable because they see tourists in their home countries doing then same things..
 

 

Excellent point.



#30 DawnM

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 08:16 AM

At the Grand Canyon this summer I saw the cutest little Chinese girl.  I wanted so badly to take her picture, but didn't.  

 

I have a Chinese boy....we thought we were getting a girl.  I love him more than life and he is an exceptionally great kid, but I still longed for a little girl.  It isn't going to happen now (we are just too old and tired to start over) but every now and then I get that pang of regret that we didn't do it when we were younger.


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#31 Heigh Ho

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 08:19 AM

It isn't restricted to one ethnic group.

 

I had a group of 4 teens approach me in a mall store on a weeknight this week, trying for the shock reaction while holding a large snake.  One was recording with his phone, without my consent.  Store security nowhere to be found, and no cashiers at the registers nearby.  I didn't know a store was a public place. I've changed my phone settings so I can take a picture very quickly without taking my eye off the perps as I retreat.

 

About a month ago, there was an adult photographer taking photos in a dollar store.  She did ask for written permission before taking any photos, and explained she wanted to publish in book form.


Edited by Heigh Ho, 14 September 2017 - 08:22 AM.


#32 DawnM

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 08:22 AM

It isn't restricted to one ethnic group.

 

I had a group of 4 teens approach me in a mall store on a weeknight this week, trying for the shock reaction while holding a large snake.  One was recording with his phone, without my consent.  Store security nowhere to be found, and no cashiers at the registers nearby.  I didn't know a store was a public place. I've changed my phone settings so I can take a picture very quickly without taking my eye off the perps as I retreat.

 

About a month ago, there was an adult photographer taking photos in a dollar store.  She did ask for written permission before taking any photos.

 

How do you do that?


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#33 J-rap

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 08:22 AM

We had that same thing happen in Yellowstone, and yes, with Asian tourists.  My kids thought it was funny.  (Although, it sounds like things got a little more carried away in your experience!)



#34 BarbecueMom

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 08:26 AM

It goes both ways... Americans take pictures of cute little Asian beggars in the streets all the time, they probably thought it was culturally acceptable because they see tourists in their home countries doing then same things..

Agreeing with you though that it's awful


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That's strange to me. I rarely take pictures of my own kids on vacation (or any other time... we have a few "lost years"), let alone anyone else's. Guess I don't get out much.

#35 Heigh Ho

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 08:26 AM

How do you do that?

 

I changed the settings so no log in swipe and the camera button is now right where my thumb can naturally activate it with my usual grasp.  A side volume button allows me to snap photos rapidly.  When I get a chance, I will see what I can do with the voice activation commands and video settings.

 

What you will have to do will be unique to your phone.


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#36 SKL

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 08:31 AM

LOL I would have been amused and pleased.  Different strokes!

 

But this reminds me - the first time I went to India, my Indian friend told me not to let anyone take my photo.  Why?  Because they could photoshop it and sell porn with my face on it.  Apparently that was a thing there.  (Probably not so much now that you can easily pull a katrillion photos off the internet.)

 

But with women photographing little kids, I am sure they are just fascinated with their coloring.

 

I admit to taking a few photos of native kids in other countries during my travels.  Not to the point of exploiting them, just to get a real picture of the place.


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#37 creekland

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 08:31 AM

I would have grabbed her camera/phone and smashed it.

 

Does anyone still wonder why we are considered "The Ugly Americans?"

 

People took pics of my kids all the time when we traveled.  We've often wondered just how many scrapbooks they are in.  Especially when it's tourists, it's honestly not that big of a deal.  In the OP's situation, we'd have posed and had a delightful conversation about where they were from or where they were visiting, etc.  We'd have made new friends, if only for a snapshot of time.  It's a far, far better life (less stress, etc) than getting knickers in a knot about minor differences in culture.

 

I'd be far more concerned about a stalker back home taking pics or something similarly ominous.  

 

The OP can write the State Dept, but they'll probably just get a big laugh out of it TBH - along with rolled eyes - and I feel for the poor dude or dudette who has to compose a "sympathy" letter back.


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#38 SKL

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 08:38 AM

And "personal space" is a cultural idea that varies greatly from culture to culture.  As in having people squish up against you on the bus is perfectly normal.

 

In the US, a foreign lady (total stranger) asked to touch my babies' hair.  At least she asked.  :p


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#39 SKL

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 08:41 AM

And my mind keeps contrasting this with the Amish thing.  I live near Amish country, and I have always been taught that you can't photograph Amish adults because they think that does something to their souls.  But photographing the kids is OK.  Mainstream US folks seem to be taking the opposite view.  Personally I don't think being photographed in public (from near or far at any age) does anything to a person, unless you're such a famous person that it's an intellectual property infringement.

 

And the Asian person who was yelled at to stop photographing is probably thinking about us similar to how we used to think about the Amish people's belief about photographs - hmm, interesting superstition.


Edited by SKL, 14 September 2017 - 08:43 AM.

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#40 Lanny

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 08:52 AM

Very bad and  I believe in many countries could result in the person taking the photos being assaulted and/or arrested. You did the correct thing. You could have told them it would be USD $20 for each photo and see if they would pay you.  


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#41 Janeway

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 09:47 AM

Photographing my kids.

We've been traveling for nearly two weeks out west and about five days in Yellowstone. I have four light skinned, blue eyed, blond or brown haired kids. Some middle aged Asian women were chasing, yes chasing, my kids to get their pics!

I would say "No!" and step in front of my kids. One woman tried to go around me and snap the pic at another angle.

I told my kids if they saw someone taking their photo who wasn't dad or mom to turn their back.

It's beyond obnoxious. Are Asian tourists advised that this is unacceptable?

Also, in Texas, what the woman did was illegal. I do not know about the laws where you were at so it might be worth looking up. But in Texas, if the woman is harassing, which she was when she continued to try to get access to your child and going around you, it is illegal. So you could press charges against her, which could actually prevent her from visiting the states in the future if she has a criminal record.



#42 MedicMom

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 09:54 AM

It happens all the time here. I live in the finger lakes region of NY that apparently is a huge draw for Asian tourists. I have one blond and blue eyed child and one with red hair and blue eyes. They are constantly photographing my kids when we are out walking in the summer.

There's nothing I can do about it but stay home and hide. We also have a lot of Amish/old order Mennonite in the area, and there's always people being super annoying and trying to photograph them. I can't imagine how frustrated the Amish get.

#43 Junie

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 10:09 AM

In one situation that we had, the children were touched.  The group (probably Chinese, 3 or 4 adults who seemed to be related to each other) sat on a bench and then pulled my children onto their laps for a photograph.   :scared:

 

I was in the restroom and when I came out this was the scene I found.  Dh didn't know how to stop them and didn't want to cause a scene.  The tourists didn't seem to be causing any harm, but it was awkward and uncomfortable.

 

We told the kids that the people were just so excited to see their blue eyes and they were excited to see so many children in one family.  We explained to the older children about China's one-child policy and how it really is unusual and almost unbelievable for them to see a family of six children.



#44 Bluegoat

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 10:14 AM

In one situation that we had, the children were touched.  The group (probably Chinese, 3 or 4 adults who seemed to be related to each other) sat on a bench and then pulled my children onto their laps for a photograph.   :scared:

 

I was in the restroom and when I came out this was the scene I found.  Dh didn't know how to stop them and didn't want to cause a scene.  The tourists didn't seem to be causing any harm, but it was awkward and uncomfortable.

 

We told the kids that the people were just so excited to see their blue eyes and they were excited to see so many children in one family.  We explained to the older children about China's one-child policy and how it really is unusual and almost unbelievable for them to see a family of six children.

 

The no-touching thing is a big cultural difference between North Americans and many other cultures.  


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#45 MommyLiberty5013

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 11:27 AM

Does anyone still wonder why we are considered "The Ugly Americans?"

People took pics of my kids all the time when we traveled. We've often wondered just how many scrapbooks they are in. Especially when it's tourists, it's honestly not that big of a deal. In the OP's situation, we'd have posed and had a delightful conversation about where they were from or where they were visiting, etc. We'd have made new friends, if only for a snapshot of time. It's a far, far better life (less stress, etc) than getting knickers in a knot about minor differences in culture.

I'd be far more concerned about a stalker back home taking pics or something similarly ominous.

The OP can write the State Dept, but they'll probably just get a big laugh out of it TBH - along with rolled eyes - and I feel for the poor dude or dudette who has to compose a "sympathy" letter back.

Yep because chasing a freaked out four year old at a high cliff overlooking a waterfall to get his picture is totally acceptable. Eye rolls at you. You have no idea that this was not a photo from afar. It was a blatant disregard for safety, privacy, wishes of a parent, and scared a small child.

I get societal norms...I'm a world traveler. This is not that. This isn't taking someone's photo at a distance of even five or ten feet. This is trying to push around me to get a pic of my terrified son.

By the way, I didn't say State Department, I said embassies. Why would I write to the US State Dep when the issue lies with the Asian nations? I don't want your answer. Just a rhetorical question.

Edited by MommyLiberty5013, 14 September 2017 - 11:31 AM.

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#46 Diana P.

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 11:45 AM

You can't count on not being photographed in public. No one has to ask for your consent. You can turn your back or cover your face if you notice someone trying. If you don't want your DC photographed ever you can be like Micheal Jackson and put big hats and sunglasses on them every time you go out.

You cannot threaten or assault someone taking pictures. You can ask them to stop, cover yourself and turn away
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#47 creekland

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 12:15 PM

Yep because chasing a freaked out four year old at a high cliff overlooking a waterfall to get his picture is totally acceptable. Eye rolls at you. You have no idea that this was not a photo from afar. It was a blatant disregard for safety, privacy, wishes of a parent, and scared a small child.

I get societal norms...I'm a world traveler. This is not that. This isn't taking someone's photo at a distance of even five or ten feet. This is trying to push around me to get a pic of my terrified son.

By the way, I didn't say State Department, I said embassies. Why would I write to the US State Dep when the issue lies with the Asian nations? I don't want your answer. Just a rhetorical question.

 

I have a pretty darn good idea what went on when I combine your explanation with my personal experiences.  We'd have handled it 100% differently.

 

My kids have since grown up and don't have a single iota of prejudice (as per online tests) and feel at home in the world, not just their corner.  They adapt extremely well to other cultures with everything from personal space to food to whatever.  I certainly have no regrets.  Some of us have to break "The Ugly American" stereotype that is out there.

 

And sorry I missed the Embassies vs State Dept.  So folks at the Embassies will roll their eyes and someone will have to draft an apology letter to you.  Hopefully they'll realize your views don't represent all Americans.  Many of us welcome foreign travelers - complete with any innocent cultural faux pas they might happen to do.  I'm sure I've made enough mistakes in other places, so I'm not throwing any stones.  I'd take a situation like that and make friends while teaching my kids there's nothing to be afraid of.  We're all people and only know what we grew up with.  I'll admit we think it's pretty cool that our kids are almost certainly in other folk's scrapbooks.


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#48 Laura Corin

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 12:18 PM

Here's what gets me... I know it's a public place. So if you must photograph my kids then do so at a distance with zoom or out of their and my space. It still enrages me, but whatever, it's out of my control legally.

These people were in my kids' personal space. Once when I saw it happening I loudly shouted "No!" And jumped in front of my son. Another time I blocked a woman from getting a good shot and she proceeded to try and outsmart my movements to take his picture. These examples are out right violations of private and personal space of minors.

So no I didn't smash her camera, however, it's darn near close to that when they get into touching space of my kids and my family. My children aren't the same as mud pots or bison.

Unacceptable. I'm going to write letters to the nations' embassies in D.C.. it's THAT bad.


I understand that it felt invasive. All tourists have a duty to hear advice about local customs. But twice last week I had to avoid accidents with tourists who had rented cars and not learned how to deal with roundabouts. They were not Asian.

Asian personal space and notions of privacy are different to those in the West.

#49 Jean in Newcastle

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 12:21 PM

All you had to do was to pick up your four year old, remove him from being by a cliff and the tourists. He could have buried his face in your shoulder. No hysteria necessary.


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#50 WoolySocks

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 12:24 PM

I have seen plenty of Americans being obnoxious with their cameras in 3rd world countries taking pictures of funeral pyres and grieving families, bribing children with money, peeking in windows, etc.  I would say just don't assume the worst of a culture by the behavior of a few.  Cultural norms can vary and sometimes very simple things can seem extremely novel when you are living a much different life than the receiving country.  I admit, I could hardly resist the adorable children in Nepal, India, and China. 


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