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Regional dialect? Moi?


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#1 Mainer

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 06:21 PM

I was recently at a reading teaching workshop, and found out that I pronounce some sounds differently than my colleagues. I'm from Maine, but I live in Pennsylvania now. The teacher (from Wisconsin) was explaining the difference between the vowel sound in "hot," and the vowel sound in "ball." To me, they sound exactly the same. My boss, a speech-language pathologist, says that they are indeed different. I always thought people around here just had twangy accents... turns out I'm the odd one! :lol:  Are those vowels the same or different where you live?


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#2 happysmileylady

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 06:22 PM

They are different.  The difference is slight, kind of like the difference in pin and pen, but they are different. 



#3 OhElizabeth

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 06:29 PM

Yup, that's pretty funny, lol! Yes, they used to talk about General American Dialect. I don't know what they call it now, but it has probably changed. It's what they teach everyone for public speaking purposes, so that if you want to be on the news, etc. you sound the same. 

 

There are other sounds that are regional, like aspiring the /h/ in "wh". Sanseri I think puts it in her materials that you're supposed to pronounce it, but that's really specific to her region of the country. In linguistics classes I took, they'd do surveys and have a good chuckle over the way things were pronounced. 

 

So yeah, it's fine, good that you figured it out! Study your vowel circle and have them go through the sounds with you. Even if you don't pronounce words that way, you'd like to understand the production to be able to teach them correctly. :)



#4 Mainer

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 06:35 PM

I was thinking about the vowel circle! Poor kids with me insisting they reaaally drop their chins for /o/. Lol.

 

I think I'm incapable of making the right sound, though... I may need a speech therapist!!


Edited by Mainer, 13 September 2017 - 06:35 PM.

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#5 OhElizabeth

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 06:43 PM

You'll get it. You just need a native to tutor you.  :lol:

 

In all seriousness, make some minimal difference pairs, where the only difference is that one sound. Write the pair of words and have the person who *can* pronounce them say them as you point to the correct one. Then add one more (similar) sound to the field and repeat. You'll get it.

 

As you work with the vowel circle, place your hand under your chin. Go through the sounds in order, feeling your jaw drop. Notice the rounding of your mouth as the sounds move from more open to more rounded sounds. Have the native place their hand under their jaw as they do the sounds around the circle. That way you can see their jaw drop.

 

My ds could not pronounce the vowels accurately and consistently, so we had to spend a lot of time connection production and written. That's how we did it, with the lIPS faces, a mirror, and hand under the jaw to feel it happening. The easiest way to discriminate minimal difference pairs is to start on opposite sides of the circle.


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#6 desertflower

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 12:05 AM

I'm from GA and they are different. :)

#7 Matryoshka

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 01:00 AM

I was recently at a reading teaching workshop, and found out that I pronounce some sounds differently than my colleagues. I'm from Maine, but I live in Pennsylvania now. The teacher (from Wisconsin) was explaining the difference between the vowel sound in "hot," and the vowel sound in "ball." To me, they sound exactly the same. My boss, a speech-language pathologist, says that they are indeed different. I always thought people around here just had twangy accents... turns out I'm the odd one! :lol:  Are those vowels the same or different where you live?

 

They're exactly the same.  But then, I'm also from New England. :D


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#8 Mainer

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 05:25 AM

They're exactly the same.  But then, I'm also from New England. :D

 

Hooray! Vindicated! :-)


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#9 fralala

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 06:11 AM

They're exactly the same.  But then, I'm also from New England. :D

 

Agreed. Then again, my grandparents also used to put an r in wash (when they spoke).

 

On the plus side, it was easier for me to spell aunt than for my friends who had ants.
 



#10 Ausmumof3

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 06:57 AM

I can't even imagine how they could be the same... They are totally different here.
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#11 Kinsa

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 08:22 AM

Totally the same for me. I have a Pennsylvania accent with an acquired Texan accent. I'm all kinds of mixed up.

#12 TheReader

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 09:11 AM

Those two are different, but pin and pen are definitely the same. 

 

I've started giving my son the key word (with Barton) when I dictate /i/ words and /e/ words, because I find when I try harder to enunciate the specific sound, it actually sounds worse. I also make sure and point at my mouth so he watches the shape of it (which is different, even though the sound comes out the same) and just accepting that regional accents, in our case, means sometimes he's just going to keep mixing up /i/ and /e/ and I just show him the correct way and explain it was an error in my pronunciation, and we move on. 

 

(I'm from Texas)


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#13 coastalfam

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 10:13 AM

Born and raised in California. For me, the vowel sounds in pin and pen are very distinctly different, and the vowel sounds in hot and ball are exactly the same. :) And when I pay close attention to my jaw and how I am saying those sounds, well, it's still the exact same. LOL So interesting!

 


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#14 Matryoshka

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 10:14 AM

Agreed. Then again, my grandparents also used to put an r in wash (when they spoke).


My dad does that too, but it's because he's from Missouri.

#15 maize

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 11:16 AM

I can't even imagine how they could be the same... They are totally different here.


And I don't know how they can be different, they are identical to me.
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#16 Garga

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 11:38 AM

Pin and pen are different.

 

Hot and ball are different. 

 

I hold my mouth very differently to make all four sounds: Pin, Pen, Hot, Ball.   My mouth is open widest with pin and most narrow with ball.

 

 

 


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#17 maize

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 11:55 AM

In my dialect, hot rhymes with dot, caught, watt, bought, taught, knot, lot, taut, yacht.

 

the vowel is the same as that in ball, which rhymes with tall, doll, crawl, shawl, alcohol, protocol, fall, and squal.

 

All a short o sound :)


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#18 maize

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 11:57 AM

I do differentiate between pin and pen. 

 

Pin rhymes with in, spin, thin, and win

Pen rhymes with ten, den, men and wren


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#19 Zinnia

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 12:38 PM

I do differentiate between pin and pen.

Pin rhymes with in, spin, thin, and win
Pen rhymes with ten, den, men and wren


All those words rhyme. ;)
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#20 Laura Corin

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 12:57 PM

They are different. Pin and pen are different. But pour, paw and pore are the same sound, not just the same vowel.
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#21 maize

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 01:34 PM

They are different. Pin and pen are different. But pour, paw and pore are the same sound, not just the same vowel.


Pour and pore are the same to me, paw takes a short o sound (like hot).

And of course I use a rhotic r.
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#22 maize

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 01:36 PM

I really wish I lived somewhere without so much rhotic r as four of my children struggle to produce it.

#23 Crimson Wife

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 02:15 PM

This is why I struggled in my phonetics class. The author of my textbook has a Midwestern accent but I have a mild New England one. I kept getting things wrong like "cherry" having a short e sound and not rhyming with "fairy". Ugh, ugh, ugh!


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#24 coastalfam

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 07:03 PM

I wish I could hear how everyone is saying "hot" and "ball" different. I'm trying my hardest to imagine a distinction! LOL 


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#25 maize

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 07:06 PM

This is why I struggled in my phonetics class. The author of my textbook has a Midwestern accent but I have a mild New England one. I kept getting things wrong like "cherry" having a short e sound and not rhyming with "fairy". Ugh, ugh, ugh!


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But they rhyme because fairy has a short e sound!

:D

I love the variations.

#26 Mainer

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 08:30 PM

I'm feeling a lot better about this now  :laugh:


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#27 Lucy the Valiant

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 08:52 PM

Ferry vs. fairy? 

 

:) 
 

 

 



#28 kbutton

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 09:08 PM

I love regionalisms, lol! DH does that h sound with his wh words. I'd never heard it until I met him and his family (CA). 

 

I am laughing at the idea of a PA accent...it begs the question of which one.  :lol:


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#29 Pen

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 09:22 PM

For me hot has almost an ah sound, mouth quite open, tongue dropped, and the sound being made relatively back as if singing the fa sound in do, re, mi, fa, so...  Though you may say the sound I say as fah differently than I do.  Ball has a sound made closer to front of mouth, with mouth and lips relatively more closed, like lips  have only opened very slightly and jaw only dropped slightly from from a long O sound as in No. When the lips open even farther and the lower jaw drops farther down, then the vowel sound for ball moves into the vowel sound for hot.  If it goes even further into an open and wider stretch, with mid toungue rising a little, it moves to a short a as in apple sound for me.

 

Possibly if you start by singing a tone with your lips in a tight oooo, and then gradually open lips and lower jaw, you'll pass through the various vowel sounds including the ones that people who have a different sound for hot and ball are making.


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#30 Crimson Wife

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 09:23 PM

I wish I could hear how everyone is saying "hot" and "ball" different. I'm trying my hardest to imagine a distinction! LOL


The people I know who make a distinction have a vowel sound that is like halfway between the vowel in "haul" and the one in "cow".


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#31 Crimson Wife

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 09:26 PM

Ferry vs. fairy?

:)


To me, they are different but my phonetics textbook author would pronounce the latter with a long a sound like fare-ee


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#32 Plink

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 09:58 PM

Totally different - I'm from NH ;)

 

Hot's vowel sound is made higher up and further back in the mouth than ball.    

 

I also tend to pronounce wh differently than w  - wh is breathier.

 

 



#33 maize

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 10:00 PM

Ferry vs. fairy?

:)



Identical.

Rhyme with berry and Harry and contrary.

#34 OneStepAtATime

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 10:58 PM

You are all wrong.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

JK.  LOL.  I have lived North, South, East and West.  And on Guam.  It really depends on who I'm talking to as to how I pronounce anything.  I tend to pick up whatever I hear.  But this thread is really fascinating...


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#35 Mainer

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 06:13 AM

I also like to imitate other people's accents, so now I think I've actually changed the way I say certain words.



#36 Laura Corin

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 06:47 AM

I wish I could hear how everyone is saying "hot" and "ball" different. I'm trying my hardest to imagine a distinction! LOL 

 

Here you go.  Sorry, the quality is not great:

 

https://vocaroo.com/i/s0Ysyxdpdnei


Edited by Laura Corin, 15 September 2017 - 06:48 AM.

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#37 OneStepAtATime

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 09:44 AM

Here you go.  Sorry, the quality is not great:

 

https://vocaroo.com/i/s0Ysyxdpdnei

I can hear the difference!  Cool!  Thanks for sharing.  :)



#38 Mainer

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 10:28 AM

Here you go.  Sorry, the quality is not great:

 

https://vocaroo.com/i/s0Ysyxdpdnei

 

That's awesome. Around here, the /o/ in hot sounds pretty twangy to me... like h-aaaahhh-t. 



#39 OneStepAtATime

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 11:29 AM

On a side note, my dad pronounced eggs as aiggs.  That always cracked me up.



#40 maize

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 11:32 AM

On a side note, my dad pronounced eggs as aiggs. That always cracked me up.


You mean with a long a sound or something different?

I use a long a sound.

#41 arctic_bunny

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 11:34 AM

You mean with a long a sound or something different?

I use a long a sound.


After these kinds of threads, I'm always surprised I can still speak. I've gone back and forth, and no longer know how I say eggs.
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#42 OneStepAtATime

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 11:40 AM

You mean with a long a sound or something different?

I use a long a sound.

long a sound with a bit of an additional syllable before the hard g.

 

I pronounce eggs with a short e and it is just the short e and the hard g.


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#43 Laura Corin

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 12:11 PM

Identical.

Rhyme with berry and Harry and contrary.

 

All different:

 

Here's ferry, berry, marry, Harry, fairy, hairy and contrary.

 

https://vocaroo.com/i/s1op1kBBYh23
 


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#44 OneStepAtATime

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 01:09 PM

This thread is such a wonderful distraction... :)


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#45 kand

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 02:57 PM

On a side note, my dad pronounced eggs as aiggs. That always cracked me up.

One of my kids always pronounced it with the long I sound for the E. I loved that.

I can't imagine how people are saying pin and pen the same way. On the other hand, the vowel in hot and ball is only ever so slightly different. These threads are always mind-boggling.
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#46 Pen

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 04:35 PM

The people I know who make a distinction have a vowel sound that is like halfway between the vowel in "haul" and the one in "cow".


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In the English dialects I have most experienced, ball and haul  rhyme.  

 

But hot does not rhyme with haul, though it does rhyme with not.


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#47 Black-eyed Suzan

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 09:05 PM

My husband from AR says pin, pan, and pen the same way. They all sound like pin to me.

Hot and ball have the same sound when I say them. Pin, pan, and pen do not.

Interestingly, my older sounds more like me, my younger more like my husband. Therefore I believe accents are at least in part genetic.
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#48 ElizabethB

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Posted 17 September 2017 - 05:36 PM

Mine are slightly different.  But, my students in the South said "cot" and "caught" differently, I say them the same.  When we got to the sound in "caught," I would say, you say this differently, it is the sound in the word caught as in "We caught the ball."  I would tell them to say it how they say it.  I tried but could not say it the way they said it so I just had them say it when we go to that point, LOL.

 

Here is a website where you can see the sounds being made, maybe that will help you see how to put your tongue and throat to make them differently:

 

http://soundsofspeec...ex.html#english

 

I have the app on my phone and use it with my students who have any type of a problem hearing or saying a specific sound.  


Edited by ElizabethB, 17 September 2017 - 05:36 PM.


#49 coastalfam

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Posted 17 September 2017 - 08:53 PM

Here you go.  Sorry, the quality is not great:

 

https://vocaroo.com/i/s0Ysyxdpdnei

 

Thanks for doing that! :) The vowel sound in "ball" is definitely not a sound I hear pronounced where I live. 


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