What to tell dd about friends jerk behaviour

[Bluegoat]

I don't know of there is advice - it might be mostly a vent, but any wisdom is welcome too.

 

So, my dd12 is having a friend issue at school.  She's just started grade 7 in a new jr high school.  Her friends from her class last year are in the same school, but a different class.  They've been pretty tight through the last school year, having a sleepover just last week.

 

Yesterday, her friends deliberately ran off from her when it was time to walk home from school.  She was upset of course.  This morning, they all walked together as usual.  Dd didn't mention it but asked one of the girls later if they were mad, and she said no and then left the conversation.

 

Today after school they did the same thing again.  Dd is pretty upset, and I agree with her they are being jerks (I'd like to use a stronger word.)  She tried to call one girl after school, but her mom said she was busy, which may or may not be true.

 

I've talked to her about how girls can be, and I suggested she should talk to them directly, or spend more time cultivating some of her new friends in her class.  Understandably she doesn't really want to lose her friends.  Though, she also said she felt like telling their parents and getting them in trouble (which she won't do, but I ca understand the sentiment.)

 

I'm not sure what more to tell her - maybe she really has to just live through it.  Generally she's got a fair bit of self-respect, but she's also a loyal person and really doesn't get this kind of thing.  I hate to see her letting herself be treated badly.

 

I would like to slap the little #@%^&*$ myself.

 

Why are girls that age so nasty?

 

 

[ErinE]

Many children this age, regardless of gender, are unkind. I would hug my child tight and tell her so, but encourage venting to me. This too shall pass. It's something I dislike about public school..

 

Talking directly to the offending child only encourages more mocking (in my experience). My solution was to find other social outlets outside of school

Edited September 13, 2017 by ErinE

[gardenmom5]

I have no idea why little girls can be nasty pieces of work - but that is what they're doing.

 

I would encourage her to cultivate new friends. is there one who would be more willing to talk to her away from the rest?   is one girl leading the behavior?

I would also encourage her to think if they are doing this, they can't be trusted when they seem to be being "nice".

can you get her in after school activities to give her opportunities to be with other kids so the snots won't have that opportunity to be snotty?

[gardenmom5]

Many children this age, regardless of gender, are unkind. I would hug my child tight and tell her so, but encourage venting to me. This too shall pass. It's something I dislike about public school..

 

Talking directly to the offending child only encourages more mocking (in my experience). My solution was to find other social outlets outside of school

 

if you think this is limited to public school - you are naive.  I've seen homeschool kids bully younger kids at homeschool activities.

[Peaceseeker]

I would encourage her to directly ask them why they are running off after school, especially if they are still walking with her in the mornings. She could say it in a joking way "Hey, what's up with ditching me after school the past two days?"

 

If they won't give her a direct answer or if they continue the behavior I would let her know she needs to find some new friends as obviously they aren't true friends. Girl drama can be intense in middle school and I am so sorry your daughter is experiencing this :(

[scholastica]

if you think this is limited to public school - you are naive. I've seen homeschool kids bully younger kids at homeschool activities.

And it's not limited to younger kids all the time. One of our local co-ops is known for its cliques. Just sad.

[Arctic Bunny]

I would frame it more as them using her to be nice to when they want. I would encourage her to make to friends in her new class. These girls have all day together to think up fun things to do to your dd after school.

 

I would also have errands to run after school for the rest of the week, which would necessitate me picking her up from school, or her needing to walk in a different direction to meet you.

 

Ugh. Girls.

[ErinE]

if you think this is limited to public school - you are naive.  I've seen homeschool kids bully younger kids at homeschool activities.

 

Pardon my eyeroll. Homeschooled for five years, levels preschool to sixth grade. I'm not naive. But I could control the situations with homeschooling better than public school. Treat my kid like poo in a homeschool situation? I could always withdraw my kid. Not an option in public school classes.

[Rebel Yell]

if you think this is limited to public school - you are naive.  I've seen homeschool kids bully younger kids at homeschool activities.

Sadly, agreed. And the kids don't have to be younger- some extra-special buttonholes have no age limit on the target of their buttonholery.

 

I would encourage your DD to quickly and intentionally pursue new friendships. If it turns out these jerks were just having a jerky moment and everything goes back to normal next week, BONUS! Your DD has her old friends back AND a bunch of new ones. If it turns out they are justbturnin into jerks, then she has a head start on new friends, and new friends will already have a favorable opinion of her, and will wonder what's wrong with the jerks. (Trying to not have to say, the jerks might start spreading rumors or somehow prevent DD from making new friends. Sadly, happenes too easily, especially if social media is throwing gas on the flames)

[Rebel Yell]

Pardon my eyeroll. Homeschooled for five years, levels preschool to sixth grade. I'm not naive. But I could control the situations with homeschooling better than public school. Treat my kid like poo in a homeschool situation? I could always withdraw my kid. Not an option in public school classes.

Except homeschooled kids pop up at non-homeschool activities, too.

Not being argumentative, just lamenting. :(

And it gets tiresome that people have to remove the targeted child, rather than tossing the troublemakers out on their rears

[ErinE]

Except homeschooled kids pop up at non-homeschool activities, too.

Not being argumentative, just lamenting. :(

And it gets tiresome that people have to remove the targeted child, rather than tossing the troublemakers out on their rears

Again, I've dealt with kids outside school situations while homeschooling. Thus, I'm saying to my children, please vent to me, tell me your problems. I'll listen even if I don't have a solution. An hour or two isolation is much different from an entire day's exclusion. I've seen it and dealt with it. I'm not being argumentative either, but I'm not an idiot.

Edited September 13, 2017 by ErinE

[goldberry]

I'm so sorry, I'm gone through this with my friendly to everyone and intensely loyal DD. She still goes through it, even her freshman year at college. When she was younger, I just tried to explain to her a very hard fact of life: that not all people are loyal and trustworthy just because she is. And that she should not put up with being treated that way.

 

It hurts. And it hurts to watch. But the sooner they learn that, and learn not to allow themselves to be treated that way, the better. The nice ones will indeed get taken advantage of otherwise.

Edited September 13, 2017 by goldberry

[PeachyDoodle]

My 7th and 8th grade years were he** because of stuff like this. It was never-ending. Sometimes I was on the receiving end, and sometimes I was part of the group that turned on one of its own. Both were awful.

 

I don't have much in the way of advice, just commiseration. IME, girls this age tend to gravitate to packs, and packs of 12-13yo girls just seem to act this way for no good reason. I'm not optimistic that finding a new social group will help. Perhaps there is another girl in her class who is also new and not attached to the pack who might make a good friend?

 

As much as I agonize over DD12's dearth of friends and complete lack of interest in anything social, there is a part of me that thinks she will be better off if she just skips this stage entirely and waits until high school to find friends.

[goldberry]

Adding a little more, DD was younger that yours, but I started out asking her "Do you think that a real friend would act like that, do that, say that?  Would you act like that to your friends?"  After drawing her out to the conclusion, that no, that was not acting like a friend, then we discussed whether it was better in the circumstance to talk to the person, or if it was time to let the friendship go.  If she wanted to talk to them (which I tried to leave the decision up to her) I helped her with how she might express it.

 

These days, she is still more likely to address someone directly about friendship problems before bailing, even against my advice! ;)  She always feels like people should "have a chance", which is probably a good quality. 

 

(And yes.. this is actually one of our reasons for homeschooling.  I did not want to see her gentle, open-heartedness stomped all over every single day.  At least not until she was older and able to handle it better.)

Edited September 13, 2017 by goldberry

[catz]

I think it's good to set the tone immediately that no one is under any obligation to tolerate anyone else's dysfunctional behavior.  It's good remind your dd if kids are acting badly out of no where, that is on them and has nothing to do with her.   We also have discussions about how kids bodies and brains are changing a bunch in middle school and sometimes it causes people to make bad decisions or lash out at others.  I do call out bad behavior as I see it to my kids.  Whether that be from other kids, their parents, or adults we come across.  I would encourage her to get involved in activities of interest and get to know some other kids.  Middle school ages are a really common time for friendships to be shifting as kids discover their interests, personalities become more set, etc. 

[Katy]

7th grade girls are the worst.  I'd listen to her vent, and mention that homeschooling is always an option.  As would working (slowly) through college level curriculum from home if she would like. She'd have to justify her grades with AP/CLEP/DSST exams but I think many middle school aged girls are capable if they are willing to work hard enough.

[Annie G]

Does she have any idea who the queen bee might be in the ditching idea?  Is there one girl in the group that your dd might think is just going to along with the other girls? 

Maybe invite one of the girls (like the one who might be following the others rather than instigating it) to your house after school, which means it makes sense for the girl to walk with your dd. In other words, try to break up the pack a little bit.  And that girl might be willing to open up about what's really going on. 

 

I'm all for being upfront and asking what's going on but I know that can be insanely difficult for a young person to do. 

[Bluegoat]

Thanks all.  I also remember this stuff at that age - it does stink - and I agree with whoever said it seems to stink for the kids who are doing t, as well.

 

I've said some of these thoughts to dd - she is still unsure, but has gone out for a bike ride with one of the girls.  The one that seems to dominate the group.

 

I tend to think she should drop them until they apologize, but she doesn't want to do that, and in the end I think it has to be her decision.  She is working on making some other friends and I am hoping she'll get involved in some school activities - though she is being a little funny about that, for unrelated reasons I think.

 

I'd prefer not to bring up the possibility of homeschooling - she's in a nice class with some advantages she won't get at home.  She does have friends from some other settings who are a lot more stable, and will be doing some activities outside of school with friendship opportunities.

[nixpix5]

I am so sorry this is happening. It is, unfortunately, common in girl groups beginning around 5th and lasting through 9th (it of course also occurs in the outlier grades but these are the intense girl drama years). Girls can be the best of friends one minute and another girl can enter the picture...let the triangulation begin. The school I was counseling in last year was a revolving door of girl drama. I would have girl after girl landing in my office in a pool of tears for this exact same behavior. I did notice a trend...

 

One girl would be fought over. If that girl was insecure or passive aggressive in nature she would play the friends with both feet on either side. With one girl she was best friends and then she would hang out with the other, that one would say she didn't like girl #1 and so girl in the middle would do weird things like running off, giggling and whispering, keeping "secrets" that got whispered in front of the other girl and so forth. This led to hurt feelings and tears. Once 3rd girl was out of the picture the middle girl and 1st girl would be friendly per usual and middle girl would normally say something like "you are my friend, I don't know why so and so doesn't like you. She is jealous, I am just trying not to get in the middle of it" all while egging it on because she liked the attention.

 

The position your DD is in is the worst. It is hardest for the sweet, loyal girls who just cannot understand and want things to go back to normal. They internalize it and think there is something wrong with them.

 

I wish there was a magic answer but it is a dynamic that many girls seem to need to flesh out. I would covertly let the school counselor know, if there is one, just so he or she can keep an eye on it. I did this and would hold girl lunches where we would talk about friendship topics. Many things would come out in those meetings and they were always positive and well received. There are things on the inside that can be done but it takes a dedicated staff who is observant and understanding.

[Bluegoat]

I am so sorry this is happening. It is, unfortunately, common in girl groups beginning around 5th and lasting through 9th (it of course also occurs in the outlier grades but these are the intense girl drama years). Girls can be the best of friends one minute and another girl can enter the picture...let the triangulation begin. The school I was counseling in last year was a revolving door of girl drama. I would have girl after girl landing in my office in a pool of tears for this exact same behavior. I did notice a trend...

 

One girl would be fought over. If that girl was insecure or passive aggressive in nature she would play the friends with both feet on either side. With one girl she was best friends and then she would hang out with the other, that one would say she didn't like girl #1 and so girl in the middle would do weird things like running off, giggling and whispering, keeping "secrets" that got whispered in front of the other girl and so forth. This led to hurt feelings and tears. Once 3rd girl was out of the picture the middle girl and 1st girl would be friendly per usual and middle girl would normally say something like "you are my friend, I don't know why so and so doesn't like you. She is jealous, I am just trying not to get in the middle of it" all while egging it on because she liked the attention.

 

The position your DD is in is the worst. It is hardest for the sweet, loyal girls who just cannot understand and want things to go back to normal. They internalize it and think there is something wrong with them.

 

I wish there was a magic answer but it is a dynamic that many girls seem to need to flesh out. I would covertly let the school counselor know, if there is one, just so he or she can keep an eye on it. I did this and would hold girl lunches where we would talk about friendship topics. Many things would come out in those meetings and they were always positive and well received. There are things on the inside that can be done but it takes a dedicated staff who is observant and understanding.

 

Triangulation is a good way to describe it - I think it is totally a three girl issue.

 

I may contact the councillor, that's something I wouldn't have thought of, or perhaps talk to her at parent night.  I really am hoping dd figures out not to take it personally - it's one of those hard lessons I guess.

 

My poor dh is so confused - he's now less sure that having three girls was great...

[nixpix5]

Triangulation is a good way to describe it - I think it is totally a three girl issue.

 

I may contact the councillor, that's something I wouldn't have thought of, or perhaps talk to her at parent night. I really am hoping dd figures out not to take it personally - it's one of those hard lessons I guess.

 

My poor dh is so confused - he's now less sure that having three girls was great...

Oh yeah...my DH was thrilled when we had a little girl (we have 4 others all boys). He was over the moon with excitement but after working with teen girls I knew it would he harder and more painful for him during that time. Boys have friendship issues too but they precipitate out so differently most of the time.

 

I always think of Taylor Swift talking about being bullied and how she would come home and cry. Her mom would hug her, put her in the car and they would drive to a neighboring town to window shop or grab coffee. That is the best mom medicine :)

 

My advice is don't pry or give too much advice unless she asks. Give her a hug, take her for a manicure or some fun mom/daughter time and share any moment in your own youth where you felt this way. It helps. She will pull through and probably be stronger for it. Encourage other friendship connections and make room for her to explore other friendships. 7th grade though...eek *hug* it is a tough one.

[TechWife]

Again, I've dealt with kids outside school situations while homeschooling. Thus, I'm saying to my children, please vent to me, tell me your problems. I'll listen even if I don't have a solution. An hour or two isolation is much different from an entire day's exclusion. I've seen it and dealt with it. I'm not being argumentative either, but I'm not an idiot.

Except some homeschool kids and their parents do impose a lifetime of exclusion on some of their fellow homeschoolers. I know this from personal experience. Try having a child with a disability, or wearing the wrong thing, or going to the wrong movie, or questioning the wrong person, dropping a class - the perceived offenses are endless and often petty. In the end, both traditional school and homeschool are places where bullying and exclusion occur. Sadly, with homeschool, it can mean an entire family loses their social network. A few hours at home away from the offenders doesn't negate the damage such poor behavior causes. It should not be downplayed. The ability to enter and leave activities at will doesn't solve the problem. It is often necessary, but too often the damage has already been done, and to more people.

[QueenCat]

Triangulation is a good way to describe it - I think it is totally a three girl issue.

 

I may contact the councillor, that's something I wouldn't have thought of, or perhaps talk to her at parent night.  I really am hoping dd figures out not to take it personally - it's one of those hard lessons I guess.

 

My poor dh is so confused - he's now less sure that having three girls was great...

 

Please don't do this at parent night. Teachers and counselors don't have time or the privacy discuss these types of things at a parent night. If it is really necessary, email, call or make an appt.

[ErinE]

Except some homeschool kids and their parents do impose a lifetime of exclusion on some of their fellow homeschoolers. I know this from personal experience. Try having a child with a disability, or wearing the wrong thing, or going to the wrong movie, or questioning the wrong person, dropping a class - the perceived offenses are endless and often petty. In the end, both traditional school and homeschool are places where bullying and exclusion occur. Sadly, with homeschool, it can mean an entire family loses their social network. A few hours at home away from the offenders doesn't negate the damage such poor behavior causes. It should not be downplayed. The ability to enter and leave activities at will doesn't solve the problem. It is often necessary, but too often the damage has already been done, and to more people.

 

Been there, done that. I've had kids in public school, homeschooled, and returned to public schooling.  No one here needs to tell me the draw backs or benefits of either situation. I know there's exclusion in both. But again, in public school, the exclusion is all day, peer- and teacher-driven, and there's no parent support in the moment. I have experience in all-day bullying when it comes to public school versus homeschool. While homeschooling, I could remove them from the situation, and we could go home. I don't have that option in public school.

 

 

We would homeschool right now if it was my choice. But it's not.

Edited September 13, 2017 by ErinE

[nixpix5]

Please don't do this at parent night. Teachers and counselors don't have time or the privacy discuss these types of things at a parent night. If it is really necessary, email, call or make an appt.

Good advice but I have had tons of parents approach me on parent night to discreetly put something on my radar or to give me a heads up they will be emailing me about a topic of concern. It never bothered me or felt like an inconvenience. I always felt like as someone responsible for having my finger on the pulse of the emotional wellbeing of the children in the school that it was my job. I wouldn't have thought to be bothered by it.

[wendy not in HI]

Girls are jerks.  But schools are really tuned in to bullying right now.  I would go directly to the principal and counselor and ask for help. Go armed with documentation of what is happening - in writing.  My dd's friends had a break-up/melt down/excluding in 7th grade and the counselor really took a lot of time with them, talking through things and helping them solve the problem, and followed up a couple times after.  

 

Don't wait until it gets worse. (definitely don't wait until parent night unless it is this week. Send an email tonight, and follow up with a phone call tomorrow) Waiting a week or more gives the counselor the impression that you don't care, that it's not really a big deal, or that the kids have worked things out (meaning the bullied child has decided to suck it up and walk alone). Do stick with your concerns and don't let them drop it as "just girl problems". Document each event and make sure the school is proactive in dealing with this and not sweeping it under the rug.

 

In my experience, jerky girls often have jerky moms. I would not talk to the moms before (or even after) the counselor/principal meets with them.

 

And last advice, help her make connections with other girls.  Do something special with just one other girl - go for ice cream, have her over to decorate cupcakes, etc.  One on one time with a friend helps to establish a relationship way better than having a group of girls over. 

 

Really the last thing - can you pick her up from school for a couple weeks until this gets resolved? 

[goldberry]

I tend to think she should drop them until they apologize, but she doesn't want to do that, and in the end I think it has to be her decision.

 

This is very true!  I did the same thing with DD, when I wanted to just say, "You need to ditch those little b*tches!" ;)  I restrained myself...

 

When she finally came home and said, "You know, I think that so and so is just not a very good friend, and I'm not going to hang around her anymore"... she had to do it herself.  And she did.  It will come with time...

 

Edited September 13, 2017 by goldberry

[goldberry]

Oh, and we also talked about how everyone can be a poor friend *sometimes* and how that is different from ongoing behavior. 

[nixpix5]

Girls are jerks. But schools are really tuned in to bullying right now. I would go directly to the principal and counselor and ask for help. Go armed with documentation of what is happening - in writing. My dd's friends had a break-up/melt down/excluding in 7th grade and the counselor really took a lot of time with them, talking through things and helping them solve the problem, and followed up a couple times after.

 

Don't wait until it gets worse. (definitely don't wait until parent night unless it is this week. Send an email tonight, and follow up with a phone call tomorrow) Waiting a week or more gives the counselor the impression that you don't care, that it's not really a big deal, or that the kids have worked things out (meaning the bullied child has decided to suck it up and walk alone). Do stick with your concerns and don't let them drop it as "just girl problems". Document each event and make sure the school is proactive in dealing with this and not sweeping it under the rug.

 

In my experience, jerky girls often have jerky moms. I would not talk to the moms before (or even after) the counselor/principal meets with them.

 

And last advice, help her make connections with other girls. Do something special with just one other girl - go for ice cream, have her over to decorate cupcakes, etc. One on one time with a friend helps to establish a relationship way better than having a group of girls over.

 

Really the last thing - can you pick her up from school for a couple weeks until this gets resolved?

Really great advice all around.

 

I did want to add though that I have worked with a number of moms who had a "mean girl" in the group and they were lovely moms who were horrified and in tears about their daughter's behavior.

 

Some at first might be defensive because they just couldn't believe it was their child, but soon it was just disbelief and grief. It can happen to anyone. The only thin parenting thread I ever found in common was the moms tended to do a bit more "peerenting" than parenting and were more permissive overall with their daughters. They often just were moms who didn't put many boundaries on their daughter's behavior and the girl was used to getting what she wanted and could be manipulative.

[GoodGrief]

I rarely (well, never, truthfully) find it useful to discuss this sort of exclusionary behavior with parents, even when the parent is a friend. It's unlikely that will lead to a behavior change, and is highly likely to lead to uncomfortable drama. Personally I would not involve school officials either, unless it is a safety issue.

 

As difficult as it is, I think the child needs help in forming new friendships, perhaps by trying some new activities or inviting some other people over to play/hang out (depending on age group.) Pursuing the "mean girls" is not going to create positive change.

 

They may or may not come around. There really is a lot of flux in friendships throughout childhood and adolescence generally, and it can be very painful for a sensitive child. I had two of those, and now have one who is probably less worried about friends that come and go. It's sort of a relief, lol.

 

 

Edited September 14, 2017 by Gr8lander

[gardenmom5]

And it's not limited to younger kids all the time. One of our local co-ops is known for its cliques. Just sad.

 

no - it's just these kids were so brazen as to do it in front of an adult.

 

Sadly, agreed. And the kids don't have to be younger- some extra-special buttonholes have no age limit on the target of their buttonholery.

 

I would encourage your DD to quickly and intentionally pursue new friendships. If it turns out these jerks were just having a jerky moment and everything goes back to normal next week, BONUS! Your DD has her old friends back AND a bunch of new ones. If it turns out they are justbturnin into jerks, then she has a head start on new friends, and new friends will already have a favorable opinion of her, and will wonder what's wrong with the jerks. (Trying to not have to say, the jerks might start spreading rumors or somehow prevent DD from making new friends. Sadly, happenes too easily, especially if social media is throwing gas on the flames)

 

no matter what, it's a benefit to expand that social circle.

it's also a good time for martial arts . . . but having to be somewhere else, they will lost out on their fun, and move on.

 

Oh yeah...my DH was thrilled when we had a little girl (we have 4 others all boys). He was over the moon with excitement but after working with teen girls I knew it would he harder and more painful for him during that time. Boys have friendship issues too but they precipitate out so differently most of the time.

 

I always think of Taylor Swift talking about being bullied and how she would come home and cry. Her mom would hug her, put her in the car and they would drive to a neighboring town to window shop or grab coffee. That is the best mom medicine :)

 

My advice is don't pry or give too much advice unless she asks. Give her a hug, take her for a manicure or some fun mom/daughter time and share any moment in your own youth where you felt this way. It helps. She will pull through and probably be stronger for it. Encourage other friendship connections and make room for her to explore other friendships. 7th grade though...eek *hug* it is a tough one.

 

some good advice - one thing.  PLEASE do not talk about the time when (general 3rd person) you were bullied in an attempt at "commiseration/bonding"... . unless it includes what you did to make the situation better.  otherwise, all it does is send a message they will just have to put up with it until the snots find a new form of entertainment.

 

eta:posted too soon. . .

Edited September 14, 2017 by gardenmom5

[solascriptura]

I'd give her a big hug and tell her that the girl is not a friend. I hope she finds some better ones.

[TechWife]

While homeschooling, I could remove them from the situation, and we could go home. 

 

Except when your entire home is bullied or excluded, it's not always a refuge, but a reminder of your isolation. 

Edited September 14, 2017 by TechWife

[nixpix5]

no - it's just these kids were so brazen as to do it in front of an adult.

 

 

no matter what, it's a benefit to expand that social circle.

it's also a good time for martial arts . . . but having to be somewhere else, they will lost out on their fun, and move on.

 

 

some good advice - one thing. PLEASE do not talk about the time when (general 3rd person) you were bullied in an attempt at "commiseration/bonding"... . unless it includes what you did to make the situation better. otherwise, all it does is send a message they will just have to put up with it until the snots find a new form of entertainment.

 

eta:posted too soon. . .

Good point. I will be more clear about what I meant...kids often feel embarrassed when these things happen. They often tell parents just enough but not all of the details because they internalize that hurt and pain. Girls especially feel inferior and that they will let someone down or someone they love will think less of them if they aren't popular, smart, beautiful, you name it. I have had so many kids tell me they won't tell their parents things due to embarrassment. Letting your child know that having these things happen is part of the human condition normalizes it in a way that takes that shame off of it. Of course this doesn't mean normalize it and "put up with it". I trust that OP is teaching her DD well how to set boundaries with people that hurt her. Learning how to draw those boundary lines are painful but necessary. Parents that appear as though they have all of the answers cause kids to clam up. Saying something like "I know this won't change your situation but I had something similar happen this one time...and here is what I learned from it and through it...here is how I felt during that time and this is how it turned out" We don't use the oral tradition as much as we should I'm this current era. We learn something about our own boundaries, situations, beliefs and so forth through the stories and experiences of others. This is especially key with elders to children. Too often kids get these stories now from peers, youtube, social media and television.

[MommyLiberty5013]

I was your daughter and it's truly painful. Looking back, here's what I would've done differently...

 

Rather than sulk at the corner, or be sad, I wish I would have not let them know it. I think it gives nasty girls ammunition.

 

What also gives nasty girls ammunition is being happy and finding new friends.

 

Rock and hard place.

 

I'd do this...ask the question, "What's your problem? I'm fine to hang out with on xyz but here you won't. That's so 6th grade. If you don't want to be my friend, fine, have the guts to tell me. If you do, I'll meet you at the flag at 2pm and we can walk home and forget this happened."

 

This makes DD bigger than the nasty girl and puts nasty girl in place to have to answer to her nastiness.

 

Chances are, there's something about your DD this one lead nasty girl finds threatening. Her coping method is to throw knives at your DD rather than deal with her own short comings or failings. But this never changes in adult life either. Best your DD faces it now...it's not going away...women are such witches to one another.

[gardenmom5]

Good point. I will be more clear about what I meant...kids often feel embarrassed when these things happen. They often tell parents just enough but not all of the details because they internalize that hurt and pain. Girls especially feel inferior and that they will let someone down or someone they love will think less of them if they aren't popular, smart, beautiful, you name it. I have had so many kids tell me they won't tell their parents things due to embarrassment. Letting your child know that having these things happen is part of the human condition normalizes it in a way that takes that shame off of it. Of course this doesn't mean normalize it and "put up with it". I trust that OP is teaching her DD well how to set boundaries with people that hurt her. Learning how to draw those boundary lines are painful but necessary. Parents that appear as though they have all of the answers cause kids to clam up. Saying something like "I know this won't change your situation but I had something similar happen this one time...and here is what I learned from it and through it...here is how I felt during that time and this is how it turned out" We don't use the oral tradition as much as we should I'm this current era. We learn something about our own boundaries, situations, beliefs and so forth through the stories and experiences of others. This is especially key with elders to children. Too often kids get these stories now from peers, youtube, social media and television.

 

I'm sorry if I wasn't clear - I wasn't criticizing, and I apologize if you felt I was.  you gave good advice, I do appreciate it.  I was just adding something I thought you weren't aware of - you're the counselor, not the bullied child.  so much is only understood as an adult - not a tween.  long after students have left your care.

 

while some kids might feel embarrassed and not tell their parents - I did.  I wanted help.

I was that kid who was bullied from 4-9th, including physical assault. I told my mother, enough times for me to get the message from her, that SHE thought I just had to grin and bear it because that was our lot in life.  (no, she wasn't remotely religious).  tbh: my mother's method of problem solving (I am NOT exaggerating) was to ignore it until it would go away. some of the worst advice on the planet.  

 

my grandmother was a bully (likely had a personality disorder), she groomed us all to be bullied -  so my only-child mother didn't feel she had a choice about being bullied.  so when I was bullied - she didn't feel she could do anything except commiserate.   our entire home life was dysfunctional, so I was just one more problem she couldn't cope with and I felt wished would go away.   nothing new that school would be too.  except I have been carrying around that baggage for 45 years.  this year - I'm going back to college to start doing something about it.

 

I was frequently in the counselors office (but never actually did anything to stop it.).  I feel like it was a waste of my time, and hers - since nothing ever changed.

 

seriously - rearing my children 180 degrees differently than was I - was eminently satisfying.

[Ravin]

if you think this is limited to public school - you are naive.  I've seen homeschool kids bully younger kids at homeschool activities.

 

We had issues with DD's scout troop.

[Garga]

I don't have daughters, but when my son started 7th grade, his lifelong friends (this group had all known each other since they were one) pretty much ditched him.  It came out of the blue.  These were friends from church, some were public schooled and some were homeschooled.  For 11 solid years, this guys hung out with each other, and then suddenly, my son was out.  

​My son is starting 10th grade and everything has gone back to how it was now.  All of a sudden, they're talking to him again.  They started sometime around the middle of 9th grade.  

​They were boys, so it was really quiet and not in your face, but it was baffling and upsetting.  He didn't ask anyone about it or talk about to me, but my son was so confused.  They'd just sort of act like he wasn't there when they were in a group and talk to each other and it was like they couldn't even see him.  It wasn't until now that I put two and two together and realized it was probably because they were all Middle School Aged.  

 

I don't know what it is about humans and being middle school aged, but we can be so mean to each other at that age.

 

 

[nixpix5]

I'm sorry if I wasn't clear - I wasn't criticizing, and I apologize if you felt I was. you gave good advice, I do appreciate it. I was just adding something I thought you weren't aware of - you're the counselor, not the bullied child. so much is only understood as an adult - not a tween. long after students have left your care.

 

while some kids might feel embarrassed and not tell their parents - I did. I wanted help.

I was that kid who was bullied from 4-9th, including physical assault. I told my mother, enough times for me to get the message from her, that SHE thought I just had to grin and bear it because that was our lot in life. (no, she wasn't remotely religious). tbh: my mother's method of problem solving (I am NOT exaggerating) was to ignore it until it would go away. some of the worst advice on the planet.

 

my grandmother was a bully (likely had a personality disorder), she groomed us all to be bullied - so my only-child mother didn't feel she had a choice about being bullied. so when I was bullied - she didn't feel she could do anything except commiserate. our entire home life was dysfunctional, so I was just one more problem she couldn't cope with and I felt wished would go away. nothing new that school would be too. except I have been carrying around that baggage for 45 years. this year - I'm going back to college to start doing something about it.

 

I was frequently in the counselors office (but never actually did anything to stop it.). I feel like it was a waste of my time, and hers - since nothing ever changed.

 

seriously - rearing my children 180 degrees differently than was I - was eminently satisfying.

No I didn't feel criticized at all! :) I sometimes type fast from brain to Samsung phone and I can be unclear because it is free flow thought in the moment. I thought if you were confused then others probably were so I should elaborate ;) I am so much more succinct IRL haha :)

 

Your input is so critical because it is past victims that give us so much insight. I am so happy you were able to offer your children something better. I too raised my kids 180 degrees different and it too was so satisfying. No child should ever have to endure what you did. That is awful :(

Edited September 14, 2017 by nixpix5

[mytwomonkeys]

My daughter has been through a couple of jerk friends. As a mom it can be upsetting to watch. My advice to her is that it's better to have no friends than bad friends. Fortunately, she has such a tight knit group now of great girls that have only love and kindness toward one another. Really, the best thing to do is simply remind your daughter that, how people treat you really defines how much they value you. If friends aren't treating you well than maybe it's time to back off from that friendship. My daughter calls it "friendships with fences". Basically, you can still be civil and behave as the bigger person (no drama needed), but you've put a boundary in place that keeps hurtful people with some distance in place.

 

ETA- on my phone and can't see the microscopic typing

Edited September 14, 2017 by mytwomonkeys

[fraidycat]

Many children this age, regardless of gender, are unkind. I would hug my child tight and tell her so, but encourage venting to me. This too shall pass. It's something I dislike about public school..

 

Talking directly to the offending child only encourages more mocking (in my experience). My solution was to find other social outlets outside of school

My DD had to endure this crap from a girl in our homeschool group. The ONLY other girl anywhere near DD's age. One day they were close friends, the next day she was getting emotionally and verbally shat upon by this little b!^ch.

[Rebel Yell]

Again, I've dealt with kids outside school situations while homeschooling. Thus, I'm saying to my children, please vent to me, tell me your problems. I'll listen even if I don't have a solution. An hour or two isolation is much different from an entire day's exclusion. I've seen it and dealt with it. I'm not being argumentative either, but I'm not an idiot.

Ahhh, I think we're picturing two different things. I am thinking not of just leaving a two hour event, but leaving. For good. Never returning to something because someone else is causing problems and there is nothing you can do except walk away and never return, including your entire family.

 

  

Been there, done that. I've had kids in public school, homeschooled, and returned to public schooling.  No one here needs to tell me the draw backs or benefits of either situation. I know there's exclusion in both. But again, in public school, the exclusion is all day, peer- and teacher-driven, and there's no parent support in the moment. I have experience in all-day bullying when it comes to public school versus homeschool. While homeschooling, I could remove them from the situation, and we could go home. I don't have that option in public school.

 

 

We would homeschool right now if it was my choice. But it's not.

 

 

True, we do have more options to walk away from things as homeschoolers, but I suspect we all want the same thing: to be able to participate in our chosen or available options without having to deal with buttonholes.

 

 

Ha! Ds at 11 told the wrong joke (and look, it wasn't a great joke, but it wasn't a terrible joke either, and anyway, one joke against years of closeness?) and was exluded from his homeschool group of friends forever. As in, he had to start again from scratch building up a new friendship group, which is still an ongoing thing.

 

Talk about brutal. Homeschool is no protection.

 

 

 

That is awful!

 

 

Except when your entire home is bullied or excluded, it's not always a refuge, but a reminder of your isolation.

 

Yep.

Especially in a state that only issues restraining orders for domestic abuse. Which means it's always up to the person being bullied or whatever to avoid the perpetrator/s, since there is no way to make them avoid you.

[Janeway]

Telling their parents is not really the appropriate thing to do. Clearly these girls are not interested in a friendship anymore. I think your daughter should stop walking with them to school. And the soon as she moves on the sooner she can make different friends.

[Janeway]

Thanks all. I also remember this stuff at that age - it does stink - and I agree with whoever said it seems to stink for the kids who are doing t, as well.

 

I've said some of these thoughts to dd - she is still unsure, but has gone out for a bike ride with one of the girls. The one that seems to dominate the group.

 

I tend to think she should drop them until they apologize, but she doesn't want to do that, and in the end I think it has to be her decision. She is working on making some other friends and I am hoping she'll get involved in some school activities - though she is being a little funny about that, for unrelated reasons I think.

 

I'd prefer not to bring up the possibility of homeschooling - she's in a nice class with some advantages she won't get at home. She does have friends from some other settings who are a lot more stable, and will be doing some activities outside of school with friendship opportunities.

can you just drive her and pick her up for a while so she doesn't have to deal with those girls for a while?

[Pam in CT]

If your daughter is an analytical, go-to-the-balcony type, you might try chucking Rosalind Wiseman's Queen Bees and Wannabes at her.  When my eldest went through a similar stint at a similar age, she found it transformative.  It's in its gazillionth edition by now but I expect the message remains pretty timeless.

 

It identifies and provides a vocabulary for the different roles girls-in-groups play -- the Queen Bee, the Messenger, the Banker, the Bystander, the Target, etc.  Just naming it and framing it as something that is (dishearteningly) common, for my daughter changed the dynamic -- she started seeing the nonsense in a more abstract, this-too-will-pass kind of way.  Still irritating for sure, but not quite as personal, definitely not quite as lonely and isolating.  Like walking through middle school simultaneously as a participant and also as sociologist.

 

If she's that kind of kid; not all are; my others aren't.

[nixpix5]

If your daughter is an analytical, go-to-the-balcony type, you might try chucking Rosalind Wiseman's Queen Bees and Wannabes at her. When my eldest went through a similar stint at a similar age, she found it transformative. It's in its gazillionth edition by now but I expect the message remains pretty timeless.

 

It identifies and provides a vocabulary for the different roles girls-in-groups play -- the Queen Bee, the Messenger, the Banker, the Bystander, the Target, etc. Just naming it and framing it as something that is (dishearteningly) common, for my daughter changed the dynamic -- she started seeing the nonsense in a more abstract, this-too-will-pass kind of way. Still irritating for sure, but not quite as personal, definitely not quite as lonely and isolating. Like walking through middle school simultaneously as a participant and also as sociologist.

 

If she's that kind of kid; not all are; my others aren't.

I love that book and know many girls who have also loved it. :)

[MommyLiberty5013]

If your daughter is an analytical, go-to-the-balcony type, you might try chucking Rosalind Wiseman's Queen Bees and Wannabes at her. When my eldest went through a similar stint at a similar age, she found it transformative. It's in its gazillionth edition by now but I expect the message remains pretty timeless.

 

It identifies and provides a vocabulary for the different roles girls-in-groups play -- the Queen Bee, the Messenger, the Banker, the Bystander, the Target, etc. Just naming it and framing it as something that is (dishearteningly) common, for my daughter changed the dynamic -- she started seeing the nonsense in a more abstract, this-too-will-pass kind of way. Still irritating for sure, but not quite as personal, definitely not quite as lonely and isolating. Like walking through middle school simultaneously as a participant and also as sociologist.

 

If she's that kind of kid; not all are; my others aren't.

I've never heard of this book. Gonna buy it... I have two very young daughters.

[Bluegoat]

If your daughter is an analytical, go-to-the-balcony type, you might try chucking Rosalind Wiseman's Queen Bees and Wannabes at her.  When my eldest went through a similar stint at a similar age, she found it transformative.  It's in its gazillionth edition by now but I expect the message remains pretty timeless.

 

It identifies and provides a vocabulary for the different roles girls-in-groups play -- the Queen Bee, the Messenger, the Banker, the Bystander, the Target, etc.  Just naming it and framing it as something that is (dishearteningly) common, for my daughter changed the dynamic -- she started seeing the nonsense in a more abstract, this-too-will-pass kind of way.  Still irritating for sure, but not quite as personal, definitely not quite as lonely and isolating.  Like walking through middle school simultaneously as a participant and also as sociologist.

 

If she's that kind of kid; not all are; my others aren't.

 

Ah, she's totally like that.  Yes, I think she would find i helpful - a big part of the upset for her seems to be that she just doesn't get why they would act that way.

 

I've put it on hold at the library, it looks like a great book.  Thanks!

[Bluegoat]

can you just drive her and pick her up for a while so she doesn't have to deal with those girls for a while?

 

Not very easily - mornings are almost impossible, it's when the boy I babysit is arriving, often the other kids aren't or dressed.

 

I wonder too whether it would really solve much - the girls might just find another way to make their point.

[QueenCat]

Good advice but I have had tons of parents approach me on parent night to discreetly put something on my radar or to give me a heads up they will be emailing me about a topic of concern. It never bothered me or felt like an inconvenience. I always felt like as someone responsible for having my finger on the pulse of the emotional wellbeing of the children in the school that it was my job. I wouldn't have thought to be bothered by it.

 

I meant more if she wanted to discuss it and come up with a plan of some sort. A heads up, with discretion, would be fine in that setting. I deeply care about my students emotional well-being. I've had parents come up to me at open houses, parent nights, etc and want to completely work something out pertaining to some issue. I just can't do that on that kind of night as I need to intermingle with the other parents (and students, if they're there) too.