Tell me why not to move to Scotland

[Greta]

I don't know about retirement, but I think it might be tricky because, for example, the NHS and social care goes by residence not nationality, so there would be reluctance to take in extra old people who don't have a connection to the country.

 

We had US friends who came on a student visa - he was doing a PhD. At the end of the PhD, they wanted to stay on. Both had incomes from overseas - they worked remotely for a US and an Australian firm respectively. They couldn't get permission to stay because they didn't have incomes here. If you think about it, they weren't paying income tax.

 

You could come and go on a visa waiver, but long-term rental becomes a problem because landlords are required to check that someone has the right to be here if it's a long-term let (we are landlords).

Thank you, Laura. I thought there might be a reluctance to accept people who would be a drain on the NHS without contributing much to the economy. That's understandable.

[Alicia64]

I don't think most countries just allow you to move there and get a job. A great friend always wanted to move to Germany -- always -- and when he looked into it, he wouldn't be allowed in to work.

 

He could visit, but not get a job and live there.

 

Alley

[Laura Corin]

So if I won the Powerball and was flush with millions of dollars, would they let me stay then? One can dream.

 

If you invest it then you could.  Not sure about just living here - again, with income from overseas there's a taxation issue: there's a double taxation agreement with the US, so if your income was only there, the UK wouldn't get any tax.  But it might be possible, I don't know.  Here's the investment option:

 

https://www.gov.uk/tier-1-investor

 

ETA: here's a visa questionnaire:

 

https://www.gov.uk/check-uk-visa/y

Edited September 13, 2017 by Laura Corin

[Twolittleboys]

I know nothing about UK immigration laws but pretty sure if you have many millions (and are willing to spend some of it in taxes/investment etc.) you can pretty much move anywhere.

[Guest]

Would you like to live in the Pacific Northwest?  

 

My MIL was born in Scotland and most of her family (the alive ones) still live there.  She moved to the PNW about 10 years ago because it most reminded her of Scotland, and all the things she loved about it.  

 

Like the "Scotch mist" (rain--it's more a mist than a downpour most of the time)

Like the long summer days and short winter ones.  

Like the not-so-dang-hot climate.

 

So if you have either considered or ruled out the PNW for weather, that should tell you something.  

[Janeway]

On the website for imigrating, it says since my grandparent was born there, we could immigrate that way.

 

We wouldn't do it, but it is very interesting to think about.

[Janeway]

I was thinking in terms of the United States I guess. With the tension around immigration here and when, why, how someone should be allowed in, stay, etc. My naive assumption was that most of Europe was more welcoming than the U.S. overall. I haven't done much international travel and do not think about immigration to other places very often. It just made me realize that I don't know much about how immigration truly works in other countries as compared to the US. That is all :)

the US actually has about the most lax immigration laws in all the developed countries.

 

http://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/frequently-requested-statistics-immigrants-and-immigration-united-states

 

Unlike most countries, we do not deport illegals unless they commit a felony, even then, they often are not deported. If an illegal has a baby here, the baby is made a citizen, unlike most countries. It is also possible to file your own birth certificate and claim unassisted home birth. Illegals can get welfare too. In most countries, even asking for any sort of state help will get someone who is there legally but not a born citizen deported.

Edited September 13, 2017 by Janeway

[ktgrok]

the US actually has about the most lax immigration laws in all the developed countries.

 

http://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/frequently-requested-statistics-immigrants-and-immigration-united-states

 

Unlike most countries, we do not deport illegals unless they commit a felony, even then, they often are not deported. If an illegal has a baby here, the baby is made a citizen, unlike most countries. It is also possible to file your own birth certificate and claim unassisted home birth. Illegals can get welfare too. In most countries, even asking for any sort of state help will get someone who is there legally but not a born citizen deported.

 

Illegal is an adjective not a noun. 

 

And people without the proper immigration status cannot get welfare.

[Remudamom]

Isn't there a chance you could be kidnapped by some handsome highlander type person and have to live a double life?  Not sure, didn't read the books but that came to mind.

 

[bibiche]

Illegal is an adjective not a noun. 

 

Thank you for saying this.  No person is "illegal." It is a terribly dehumanizing term.  Someone's immigration status might be irregular, but no human being is illegal.

[Audrey]

The Scottish Nationalist Party is in power at present.  These are their key platforms in 2015 - increased taxes, minimum wage, welfare, NHS spending; more affordable homes and spending on infrastructure; blocking replacement of nuclear weapons:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/apr/20/snp-manifesto-2015-key-points

 

Okay.  Now you're just outright luring me with that candy, aren't you? ;)

[Twolittleboys]

the US actually has about the most lax immigration laws in all the developed countries.

 

http://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/frequently-requested-statistics-immigrants-and-immigration-united-states

 

Unlike most countries, we do not deport illegals unless they commit a felony, even then, they often are not deported. If an illegal has a baby here, the baby is made a citizen, unlike most countries. It is also possible to file your own birth certificate and claim unassisted home birth. Illegals can get welfare too. In most countries, even asking for any sort of state help will get someone who is there legally but not a born citizen deported.

 

Not enforcing laws (for whatever reason) is not necessarily the same as lax immigration laws. I used to very much want to move to the US (not quite so much anymore) but there is little to no legal way to do so (other than having relatives there, winning a Noble price, investing millions, or marrying an American citizen). Now I don't think it is any easier to move to Europe but neither is it much harder.

[Frances]

It can be quite difficult these days to get a work permit, or be sure you won't just suddenly have to stop working and leave even if you do get one. And no-one really knows what's going to happen in terms of the EU issue.

And even if you get one, getting a visa may be very difficult. There was recently an article in our local newspaper about a couple who has spent 18 months and over $30k trying to get residence visas for their family. She is a U.K. citizen and he, a US citizen, was recruited to work for the NHS. But because she was born outside of the U.K. to U.K. citizens, only their biological child could readily get the necessary visa. They are still waiting for the visas for their adopted children and half the family is living in the US and the other half in the U.K.

 

My son is now in London for grad school. We were told 2-3 weeks for a student visa, but it took almost ten. And you're only allowed to apply 3 months in advance of your school start date. We were all getting pretty stressed out waiting, as his school made it clear that every year students are denied. But I will note that his case was complicated by the fact that he was a US citizen applying outside of the US.

 

However, I'm sure there are lots of similar or worse stories about people trying to get US visas.

[Laura Corin]

Ah, I'm set then, as I was born in the UK!

 

Not necessarily.  Being born in the UK doesn't necessarily make you British:

 

https://www.gov.uk/types-of-british-nationality/british-citizenship

 

[Janeway]

And even if you get one, getting a visa may be very difficult. There was recently an article in our local newspaper about a couple who has spent 18 months and over $30k trying to get residence visas for their family. She is a U.K. citizen and he, a US citizen, was recruited to work for the NHS. But because she was born outside of the U.K. to U.K. citizens, only their biological child could readily get the necessary visa. They are still waiting for the visas for their adopted children and half the family is living in the US and the other half in the U.K.

 

My son is now in London for grad school. We were told 2-3 weeks for a student visa, but it took almost ten. And you're only allowed to apply 3 months in advance of your school start date. We were all getting pretty stressed out waiting, as his school made it clear that every year students are denied. But I will note that his case was complicated by the fact that he was a US citizen applying outside of the US.

 

However, I'm sure there are lots of similar or worse stories about people trying to get US visas.

Not really. The media just makes a lot of fuss about it. The US has some of the most lax laws. I know plenty of people here, working and earning money, but not here legally. I don't actually care actually. But I know it is just not that difficult. The guy who worked on my car the other day, at Walmart (I needed a new battery) told me that he and his brother and mother cannot leave the country because they will be denied re-entry because they are not here legally. But that is the only problem they have really. He did not expand on how they got here originally but it didn't matter so I did not ask. You have to live around the immigration issues rather than just read what the slanted news has to say about it to really get what is happening. In fact, that is often true for other situations. I have seen things or heard about things first hand from close friends or family, and then see what the media has to say, and all I can say is, the media likes to slant things to sell or to get a reaction. The media just does not care much about the truth.

Edited September 14, 2017 by Janeway

[Frances]

Not really. The media just makes a lot of fuss about it. The US has some of the most lax laws. I know plenty of people here, working and earning money, but not here legally. I don't actually care actually. But I know it is just not that difficult. The guy who worked on my car the other day, at Walmart (I needed a new battery) told me that he and his brother and mother cannot leave the country because they will be denied re-entry because they are not here legally. But that is the only problem they have really. He did not expand on how they got here originally but it didn't matter so I did not ask. You have to live around the immigration issues rather than just read what the slanted news has to say about it to really get what is happening. In fact, that is often true for other situations. I have seen things or heard about things first hand from close friends or family, and then see what the media has to say, and all I can say is, the media likes to slant things to sell or to get a reaction. The media just does not care much about the truth.

I didn't say anything about working and living in either country without the proper visa and/or documentation. I just know from numerous friends that it can be quite difficult to get them in the US. And if someone is recruited to come here for a professional job or is accepted to a real university, they have to go through the process.

[ktgrok]

Not really. The media just makes a lot of fuss about it. The US has some of the most lax laws. I know plenty of people here, working and earning money, but not here legally.

 

Um, this makes no sense. If the laws are lax, they wouldn't need to be here illegally. How hard the laws are versus how well they are enforced are different things. 

 

It probably isn't THAT hard to do say, lawn work illegally in the UK, same as here. What is hard is getting a job a an engineer or teacher or whatever without the proper legal status. 

[regentrude]

 The US has some of the most lax laws.

 

The bolded is complete nonsense. How much experience do you actually have with immigration law?

As somebody who had to go through the drawn out, invasive process and spend over $10k on legal immigration, I can assure you that the laws are very stringent.

The paperwork required to become a legal resident (not even citizen!) takes up several feet of shelf space.

 

You keep talking about people who are in this country without legal immigration status. The fact that people can circumvent the law does not mean the laws themselves are lax. It means that society has not found it desirable or practical to enforce them.

Edited September 14, 2017 by regentrude

[regentrude]

 If an illegal has a baby here, the baby is made a citizen, unlike most countries.

 

Others have already addressed your choice of language, but let me comment on the content:

 

The US has developed as a country of immigrants. Unless you're native American, your ancestors were immigrants (and if they came here a long time ago, they did not immigrate in a legal manner). A jus soli, the conferral of citizenship by birth on American soil, was the only sensible way to define citizenship for a nation with this genesis.

 

Other countries that practice jus sanguini, citizenship by blood, have completely different histories, This has nothing to do with lax or stringent immigration rules, but with different historical origins of the nations.

Edited September 14, 2017 by regentrude

[Twolittleboys]

Not really. The media just makes a lot of fuss about it. The US has some of the most lax laws. I know plenty of people here, working and earning money, but not here legally. I don't actually care actually. But I know it is just not that difficult. The guy who worked on my car the other day, at Walmart (I needed a new battery) told me that he and his brother and mother cannot leave the country because they will be denied re-entry because they are not here legally. But that is the only problem they have really. He did not expand on how they got here originally but it didn't matter so I did not ask. You have to live around the immigration issues rather than just read what the slanted news has to say about it to really get what is happening. In fact, that is often true for other situations. I have seen things or heard about things first hand from close friends or family, and then see what the media has to say, and all I can say is, the media likes to slant things to sell or to get a reaction. The media just does not care much about the truth.

 

Like others have already said, there is a big difference between lax laws and lax enforcement of the laws. Actually, if the laws in the US were less stringent there would probably be less illegal immigration and the laws would probably be easier to enforce. 

[Bluegoat]

Others have already addressed your choice of language, but let me comment on the content:

 

The US has developed as a country of immigrants. Unless you're native American, your ancestors were immigrants (and if they came here a long time ago, they did not immigrate in a legal manner). A jus soli, the conferral of citizenship by birth on American soil, was the only sensible way to define citizenship for a nation with this genesis.

 

Other countries that practice jus sanguini, citizenship by blood, have completely different histories, This has nothing to do with lax or stringent immigration rules, but with different historical origins of the nations.

 

I want to agree with you - because that's true.

 

But also, there are places - like the UK - that have changed their laws to be more stringent.

 

I mentioned above that it used to be fairly easy for those from Commonwealth countries to go to the UK, or parts of it - the concept was really that it was sort of a homeland, almost the opposite of the idea of the nation of immigrants.  People with UK born grandparents also used to have a pretty easy time, and that is not so to the same extent now.

 

They made a deliberate decision to change those things.  Which isn't to say it was wrong, but it was certainly a decision to do something new rather than to carry on with the way things were.