Tell me why not to move to Scotland

[Janeway]

Please tell me why not to move to Scotland and include all the reasons I would hate it.

 

Because nephew is there right now and keeps sending me pictures and updates and I am dying to go!!!  :001_smile:

 

Since I cannot really go (or perhaos..I can???) please tell me why I would not want to go anyway. 

[AK_Mom4]

It does rain quite a bit there.  You should only move to Scotland if you like rain or if you like your raincoat and boots.

 

Sorry - that's the best I've got!

[solascriptura]

I heard it gets dark really, really early in the winter. It's quite dreary in the winter.

[aggieamy]

My family went on a three week trip to Scotland this summer and drove all around. It was the most beautiful place I have ever seen. The food was wonderful - fresh, healthy, economical. The housing prices were very reasonable.

 

We've been looking at real estate for awhile now and in the next five years plan on buying a house in Inverness or Bute. Seriously. It's splendid.

 

Is your nephew there for a vacation or for work? It's pretty economical to visit.

 

Just for fun:

 

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property/Scotland.html

 

[Liz CA]

I think you should do it. It's a wonderful place. Put the house on the market and take the plunge. Bet you won't regret it.  :)

Laura Corin (board member here) lives there as well. You two may be able to have tea and eat crumpets.

Edited September 13, 2017 by Liz CA

[aggieamy]

It does rain quite a bit there.  You should only move to Scotland if you like rain or if you like your raincoat and boots.

 

Sorry - that's the best I've got!

 

It rained while we were there but it never seemed to bother anybody. People were still out hiking and biking and shopping and doing fun things. The days it didn't rain it was the nicest weather imaginable.

 

*Amy is trying to convince everyone to move to Scotland with her!*

[Janeway]

My family went on a three week trip to Scotland this summer and drove all around. It was the most beautiful place I have ever seen. The food was wonderful - fresh, healthy, economical. The housing prices were very reasonable.

 

We've been looking at real estate for awhile now and in the next five years plan on buying a house in Inverness or Bute. Seriously. It's splendid.

 

Is your nephew there for a vacation or for work? It's pretty economical to visit.

 

Just for fun:

 

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property/Scotland.html

Study abroad for a semester in St Andrews. Seriously..I should post some of his pictures. 

[Bluegoat]

It can be quite difficult these days to get a work permit, or be sure you won't just suddenly have to stop working and leave even if you do get one.  And no-one really knows what's going to happen in terms of the EU issue.

[aggieamy]

Study abroad for a semester in St Andrews. Seriously..I should post some of his pictures. 

 

St Andrews is lovely. He should check out Bouquiniste. It's a delightful little bookstore.

[Heatherwith4]

I would go in a second.

[Laura Corin]

Well, you'd need a visa, and you'd need to prove that you would be providing exceptional value to the country to be let in.

 

Oh, it's the most left-wing area of the UK, if that matters to you.

[DawnM]

I can think of no good reason not to move to Scotland.  

[regentrude]

Weather. lots of rain, and lack of sun.

 

And unless you have an exceptional, in demand, skill, you would not qualify for a visa anyway.

[Laura Corin]

Weather. lots of rain, and lack of sun.

 

And unless you have an exceptional, in demand, skill, you would not qualify for a visa anyway.

 

Yes, although the rain depends where you live.  I'm on the east coast, and most of the rain has fallen before it arrives here (SW prevailing wind).  We have lots of sparkly blue days and have sat out to eat about 50% of the evenings this summer.

[maize]

You would need a work visa and a job.

[theelfqueen]

Petrol stations in some places are really far apart and hard to find! Running out of gas in the highlands is not a fun idea.

There is some strange obsession with eating zebra... we saw it on a lot of menus.

 

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[PeterPan]

I had a friend who lived there a number of years, and it seemed like many women had hair falling out. I have no clue why. 

[nixpix5]

Well, you'd need a visa, and you'd need to prove that you would be providing exceptional value to the country to be let in.

 

Oh, it's the most left-wing area of the UK, if that matters to you.

Wow, I wasn't aware that immigrating to Scotland was so tough. That is interesting.

 

What is crime like?

[Χά�ων]

Wow, I wasn't aware that immigrating to Scotland was so tough. That is interesting.

 

What is crime like?

Why would you assume it would be any other way?

[maize]

Why would you assume it would be any other way?

Right, sounds just like immigrating here. Hard.

[nixpix5]

Why would you assume it would be any other way?

I was thinking in terms of the United States I guess. With the tension around immigration here and when, why, how someone should be allowed in, stay, etc. My naive assumption was that most of Europe was more welcoming than the U.S. overall. I haven't done much international travel and do not think about immigration to other places very often. It just made me realize that I don't know much about how immigration truly works in other countries as compared to the US. That is all :)

[MEmama]

I was thinking in terms of the United States I guess. With the tension around immigration here and when, why, how someone should be allowed in, stay, etc. My naive assumption was that most of Europe was more welcoming than the U.S. overall. I haven't done much international travel and do not think about immigration to other places very often. It just made me realize that I don't know much about how immigration truly works in other countries as compared to the US. That is all :)

It took us nearly 2 years, several medical tests, digging up every.single job/residence/etc we'd had since 18 along with contact info for all, letters of reference, meeting a points requirement (based on age, education, health, language, financial status, etc), securing a job, and a boatload of money to immigrate to Canada.

 

Nope, you can't "just move there". But it's fun to dream! :)

[Bluegoat]

I was thinking in terms of the United States I guess. With the tension around immigration here and when, why, how someone should be allowed in, stay, etc. My naive assumption was that most of Europe was more welcoming than the U.S. overall. I haven't done much international travel and do not think about immigration to other places very often. It just made me realize that I don't know much about how immigration truly works in other countries as compared to the US. That is all :)

 

Within the EU, it's generally pretty easy to go into any country to work.

 

In some places, the UK being one, that seems to have created a tendency to put even tighter controls on those outside the EU. I've even heard of a few cases where people married to citizens had a lot of trouble.

 

It used to be fairly easy for those of us from Commonwealth countries to immigrate to the UK, but that's also no longer the case.

 

In mainland Europe where people are seeing large groups of migrants, immigration is also a pretty fraught topic.

 

 

Edited September 13, 2017 by Bluegoat

[Lanny]

You would need to investigate whether or not you could get a Visa permitting you to live there. People I know just moved from the UK, after 6 years there. They said the paperwork was hellish and his company paid for the legal work to get their visas. They just moved, from the UK to the EU. 

[nixpix5]

Within the EU, it's generally pretty easy to go into any country to work.

 

In some places, the UK being one, that seems to have created a tendency to put even tighter controls on those outside the EU. I've even heard of a few cases where people married to citizens had a lot of trouble.

 

It used to be fairly easy for those of us from Commonwealth countries to immigrate to the UK, but that's also no longer the case.

 

In mainland Europe where people are seeing large groups of migrants, immigration is also a pretty fraught topic.

Thank you! I am learning things today :)

[Laura Corin]

Thank you! I am learning things today :)

 

The UK is a very small and crowded country.  Without going into the controversies surrounding immigration, population density maps can be illuminating:

 

https://neo.sci.gsfc.nasa.gov/view.php?datasetId=SEDAC_POP

[ktgrok]

I heard it gets dark really, really early in the winter. It's quite dreary in the winter.

 

Yes, but those little lovely pubs with their hot drinks and fireplaces would make that okay I think. 

[ktgrok]

It rained while we were there but it never seemed to bother anybody. People were still out hiking and biking and shopping and doing fun things. The days it didn't rain it was the nicest weather imaginable.

 

*Amy is trying to convince everyone to move to Scotland with her!*

 

I went for a week when I got married and we had only one day of rain,w which I guess was unusual. But even that wasn't like the downpours we get here, it didn't stop us from doing anything. 

[Laura Corin]

What is crime like?

 

Murder rate is very low.  The UK is 183rd in the world.  The US is 94th.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate#By_country

 

Other crime is very variable by area, the same as most countries.  I walk alone at night in the local towns, the centre of the local city and in parks.  We leave the doors open during the day and always answer the door to strangers.

Edited September 13, 2017 by Laura Corin

[Laura Corin]

There is some strange obsession with eating zebra... we saw it on a lot of menus.

 

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That's a new one on me - I don't think I've ever seen it on a menu.

 

I had a friend who lived there a number of years, and it seemed like many women had hair falling out. I have no clue why. 

 

Another new one on me.

[theelfqueen]

I think the zebra was mostly in Edinburgh

 

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[ktgrok]

Oh, I know! I have heard the midges are bad in summer. Mind you, I'm not even sure what a midge IS, but people say it like it's a bad thing. Some kind of biting fly I think? 

 

When we went in October of 2008 it was the most wonderful place i could imagine. Food was so fresh and yummy. People SO nice, especially in the countryside vs big city (although they were nice too). 

 

WEirdest to me was how good Edinburgh smelled...I'm used to big cities being stinky, but it smelled like good food. 

 

Oh, one downside is the lack of radio stations. Where I live in Florida I have 3 country music stations on my presets, plus NPR, plus two pop stations. And there are a ton of others to choose from. In many places in Scotland there were at best two or three stations, each playing a blend of different genres. In some areas only one station came in. 

 

 

[nixpix5]

Murder rate is very low. The UK is 183rd in the world. The US is 94th.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate#By_country

 

Other crime is very variable by area, the same as most countries. I walk alone at night in the local towns, the centre of the local city and in parks. We leave the doors open during the day and always answer the door to strangers.

Great! I am sold! Packing my bags and moving tomorrow ;)

 

Sigh...I wish. Crime is out of control in my area of Washington State right now. I am ready for a change. Wish it were that easy. Sounds truly heavenly though!

[Alessandra]

Well, you'd need a visa, and you'd need to prove that you would be providing exceptional value to the country to be let in.

 

Oh, it's the most left-wing area of the UK, if that matters to you.

Oh, dear. What constitutes exceptional value? Do you children have to be valuable also? Does Scottish heritage count for anything?

[Lady Florida.]

Oh, I know! I have heard the midges are bad in summer. Mind you, I'm not even sure what a midge IS, but people say it like it's a bad thing. Some kind of biting fly I think? 

 

 

 

I always thought they were like biting gnats (have you ever been eaten up by them at Blue Springs?) but after looking them up I think they're a little bigger than gnats.

[Laura Corin]

Oh, dear. What constitutes exceptional value? Do you children have to be valuable also? Does Scottish heritage count for anything?

 

Scottish heritage isn't useful unless it's very recent.  For reference, Hobbes was born in Hong Kong and he was lucky to have had one grandparent born in the UK, otherwise he wouldn't have had citizenship (my husband is American and his parents were born in Texas; my mother is British but born in Uganda; my father was born in England).

 

Exceptional value would be that the company that hired you would be prepared to prove that no local person could be found to fill the spot.  There are also some in-demand professions.  In either case, I believe you need to find the job first and then apply for the visa, but I might be wrong.  The family would be admitted too.  

 

 

[PrincessMommy]

Wow, I wasn't aware that immigrating to Scotland was so tough. That is interesting.

 

What is crime like?

 

Immigration to most 1st world countries is pretty difficult.    My husband was almost put in jail and sent back to the US on his first business trip to Canada because when ask why he was visiting he stupidly said "I'm here to work."   :huh: :rolleyes:   They took him back to a little room and where he spent a long time back peddling and explaining he wasn't there to steal Canadian jobs.. (they asked him that question).  

[Mabelen]

Scottish heritage isn't useful unless it's very recent. For reference, Hobbes was born in Hong Kong and he was lucky to have had one grandparent born in the UK, otherwise he wouldn't have had citizenship (my husband is American and his parents were born in Texas; my mother is British but born in Uganda; my father was born in England).

 

Exceptional value would be that the company that hired you would be prepared to prove that no local person could be found to fill the spot. There are also some in-demand professions. In either case, I believe you need to find the job first and then apply for the visa, but I might be wrong. The family would be admitted too.

Laura, were you born overseas too? My older daughter is British, she was born in England and my husband had naturalized by then. My American born daughter is entitled to the British passport because of my husband, but she will not be able to pass it on to her own children.

[Laura Corin]

Laura, were you born overseas too? My older daughter is British, she was born in England and my husband had naturalized by then. My American born daughter is entitled to the British passport because of my husband, but she will not be able to pass it on to her own children.

 

No, I was born in the UK.  I think it's because I am British by descent, rather than naturalised.  The intent is to prevent people who live elsewhere carrying on being Brits over generations, even when they have no connection to the country.  As Hobbes was born overseas and I am British by descent, then I had to have lived in the UK for three years and one of his grandparents had to have been born in the UK.  Or at least that's my memory of the rule [ETA - when I look at the rules now, it looks as if it shouldn't have been a problem, but this was how it was explained to me at the Consulate in Hong Kong]

 

Hobbes can only pass his UK nationality on to his children because he has now lived in the UK for a long period.  He currently cannot pass his US citizenship on to children under a similar rule.

Edited September 13, 2017 by Laura Corin

[Greta]

Well, you'd need a visa, and you'd need to prove that you would be providing exceptional value to the country to be let in.

 

Oh, it's the most left-wing area of the UK, if that matters to you.

Purely hypothetical question, but do you know if it would be possible for someone to move there in their retirement (living on a pension, no need to work)?

[Nan in Mass]

I alwsys assumed midges and blackflies were the same thing, but now you all have me wondering.

 

Laura, at Christmas, what time does the sun set where you are?

 

Nan

[Twolittleboys]

I was thinking in terms of the United States I guess. With the tension around immigration here and when, why, how someone should be allowed in, stay, etc. My naive assumption was that most of Europe was more welcoming than the U.S. overall. I haven't done much international travel and do not think about immigration to other places very often. It just made me realize that I don't know much about how immigration truly works in other countries as compared to the US. That is all :)

 

There is a big difference between immigration and refugees. Many/most European countries feel that refugees need to be accepted for humanitarian reasons, the same doesn't apply for regular immigration. And given the large number of refugees, there is already quite a strain on countries as far as new people moving in is concerned.

 

Also, traditionally in the past, the US was a nation of immigrants. The same is not true for Europe.

[bettyandbob]

I can think of a lot of reasons to go if you have the opportunity to go and have work, etc. 

 

Since you want to know why you will not like it because you can't go: It rains a lot. It can seems dark and dreary even in summer. 

[aggieamy]

Scottish heritage isn't useful unless it's very recent.  For reference, Hobbes was born in Hong Kong and he was lucky to have had one grandparent born in the UK, otherwise he wouldn't have had citizenship (my husband is American and his parents were born in Texas; my mother is British but born in Uganda; my father was born in England).

 

Exceptional value would be that the company that hired you would be prepared to prove that no local person could be found to fill the spot.  There are also some in-demand professions.  In either case, I believe you need to find the job first and then apply for the visa, but I might be wrong.  The family would be admitted too.  

 

Interesting. A company my DH does a lot of work for has offices there. DH and I are both engineers and our professions are on the in-demand list. That makes me happy! We own our own company so we wouldn't be looking for jobs - just a second house for vacation and visiting and all.

 

I know it's complicated with taxes and immigration. We haven't decided if we want to go that route just yet.

 

Well, you'd need a visa, and you'd need to prove that you would be providing exceptional value to the country to be let in.

 

Oh, it's the most left-wing area of the UK, if that matters to you.

 

Does that mean the same thing that it does in the US? I actually thought it was closer to what I would consider our right-wing type stuff but I was there over an election so maybe we were just seeing certain groups. Not that it matters. We were just surprised to see it there!

[Laura Corin]

Purely hypothetical question, but do you know if it would be possible for someone to move there in their retirement (living on a pension, no need to work)?

 

I don't know about retirement, but I think it might be tricky because, for example, the NHS and social care goes by residence not nationality, so there would be reluctance to take in extra old people who don't have a connection to the country.

 

We had US friends who came on a student visa - he was doing a PhD.  At the end of the PhD, they wanted to stay on.  Both had incomes from overseas - they worked remotely for a US and an Australian firm respectively.  They couldn't get permission to stay because they didn't have incomes here.  If you think about it, they weren't paying income tax.

 

You could come and go on a visa waiver, but long-term rental becomes a problem because landlords are required to check that someone has the right to be here if it's a long-term let (we are landlords).

[Laura Corin]

Does that mean the same thing that it does in the US? I actually thought it was closer to what I would consider our right-wing type stuff but I was there over an election so maybe we were just seeing certain groups. Not that it matters. We were just surprised to see it there!

 

The Scottish Nationalist Party is in power at present.  These are their key platforms in 2015 - increased taxes, minimum wage, welfare, NHS spending; more affordable homes and spending on infrastructure; blocking replacement of nuclear weapons:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/apr/20/snp-manifesto-2015-key-points

 

 

Edited September 13, 2017 by Laura Corin

[Mabelen]

No, I was born in the UK. I think it's because I am British by descent, rather than naturalised. The intent is to prevent people who live elsewhere carrying on being Brits over generations, even when they have no connection to the country. As Hobbes was born overseas and I am British by descent, then I had to have lived in the UK for three years and one of his grandparents had to have been born in the UK. Or at least that's my memory of the rule [ETA - when I look at the rules now, it looks as if it shouldn't have been a problem, but this was how it was explained to me at the Consulate in Hong Kong]

 

Hobbes can only pass his UK nationality on to his children because he has now lived in the UK for a long period. He currently cannot pass his US citizenship on to children under a similar rule.

I see. Yes, it looks like it should not have been a problem. I suppose it's not an issue now, anyway. All's well that ends well!

[Laura Corin]

I alwsys assumed midges and blackflies were the same thing, but now you all have me wondering.

 

Laura, at Christmas, what time does the sun set where you are?

 

Nan

3:38, although dusk lasts until more like 4.30.

[Bluegoat]

I don't know about retirement, but I think it might be tricky because, for example, the NHS and social care goes by residence not nationality, so there would be reluctance to take in extra old people who don't have a connection to the country.

 

We had US friends who came on a student visa - he was doing a PhD.  At the end of the PhD, they wanted to stay on.  Both had incomes from overseas - they worked remotely for a US and an Australian firm respectively.  They couldn't get permission to stay because they didn't have incomes here.  If you think about it, they weren't paying income tax.

 

You could come and go on a visa waiver, but long-term rental becomes a problem because landlords are required to check that someone has the right to be here if it's a long-term let (we are landlords).

 

 

 

It often seems much easier to say spend part of the year in a place - so you still have to have travellers insurance. and are't going to be entitled to thongs like benefits.

[stephanier.1765]

So if I won the Powerball and was flush with millions of dollars, would they let me stay then? One can dream.