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#51 goldberry

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 07:20 PM

But you don't scavenge TVs or things that have value.

 

Never suggested that.  I was suggesting scavenge as a neutral word rather than looting, for people that are scrounging for necessities.  (Is scrounging a word?? :confused1:)

 

Looting = automatic negative connotation.  Perfectly fine with that being applied to anyone taking something that is not a necessity or a survival item. 
 


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#52 goldberry

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 07:22 PM

You scavenge your own stuff.  If it is in someone else's home or store, it is looting.  

 

No, not the definition.

 

But if you want to call any "taking", whether survival items or not, "looting", then it should be called looting no matter who is doing it. 
 



#53 slr1765

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 07:25 PM

To answer my own question with a lot of googling, I stumbled upon a ten year old article in the Orlando Sentinel covering a new (at the time) anti-looting law. It seems if someone is caught looting/stealing after the governor has issued a state-of-emergency, then punishment for the crime is harsher. For example, a third degree felony becomes a second degree felony.

 

I can't find any secondary sources to confirm this and I'd like to know just for my own curiosity but I'm going to shut the door on my search for an answer.

 

BTW, the articles I've read on the looting in Florida have shown mug shots of people of differing races.


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#54 creekland

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 07:30 PM

My guess is anyone who thinks looters are doing a homeowner or storekeeper a favor has never had their personal home or business robbed after a natural disaster and doesn't really realize that looters tend to go after the stuff that is still in good shape, not the stuff headed to the dumpster.

 

Considering how few are fully insured, for many it could be the final blow as to whether they can rebuild their home or business again or not.

 

Looting is a major problem and should have stiff penalties wherever it happens.  Price gouging is too, of course.  Neither are something to turn a blind eye to or yawn at.


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#55 Silver Brook

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 08:19 PM

nm

Edited by Silver Brook, 13 September 2017 - 08:53 PM.


#56 bibiche

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 10:11 PM

Nope. It was the second post in this thread .
OP asked if there were stiffer penalties for looting and next post was race bait.

Race bait, huh? No, speaking about racism is not race baiting. But calling someone a race baiter for pointing out racism is a good way to try to shut down a conversation about race and often very effective. It is a particularly popular tactic in right-wing media such as Fox News. The same network that likes to stoke white fears of "savage man beast" looters.

That coded language employed by Fox News is offensive. Calling for looters to be particularly harshly punished is offensive and horrifying to me. It calls to mind the extrajudicial "justice" meted out after the Galveston hurricane of 1900. It calls to mind Emmett Till and countless other racially motivated murders. And say what you will, whites and blacks are not treated the same and "looting" is a loaded term. Remember this with Katrina? And on the subject of Katrina, remember the Danziger Bridge shootings? Would that have happened to white civilians?

Watch this. It is a humorous yet cogent commentary (and as a bonus discusses race baiting!) by Jon Stewart. That was after Ferguson. Last month white supremacists marched in Charlottesville. Have we made progress? We need to continue to have a lot of conversations and make a lot of admissions regarding racism. And please, don't play the race baiting card. Let's reserve that for racists.

eta bonus article on Irma "looting": http://www.miaminewt...n-miami-9666645

Edited by bibiche, 13 September 2017 - 11:59 PM.

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#57 rebbyribs

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 11:11 PM

Sentencing for criminals in Florida shows strong racial bias (see: http://projects.hera...ias/sentencing/ ), so I would bet that the "looters" are going to end up with harsh sentences.

 

I wish the news wouldn't focus on the looting because some people are going to get killed staying behind to "protect their property" in subsequent natural disasters.  


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#58 EmilyGF

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 12:20 AM

Um....no.

 

For starters, not all "looting" occurs in the worst hit areas. It often happens in areas where people evacuated but there was relatively minor damage.  The shoe stores that were robbed (looting seems like the wrong word imo) in Florida were not flooded.  It is also important to remember that many homes/businesses have inadequate insurance coverage for these situations so yes, the money does end up coming out of the pockets of the victims directly (and indirectly from us all when they do have insurance).

 

People who couldn't evacuate a hard hit area and then have to get supplies via "looting" (again seems like the wrong word) are in a different class as there is no other way for them to get supplies.  Those who break in business and homes to enrich themselves and take advantage are simply common criminals.

Yet when people loot, it discourages others from evacuating in the future for fear of looters ("I need to stay here and defend my possessions!"). So it leads to longer term lack of safety, which is why the punishment needs to be stiffer (from an econ view).

 

Emily


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#59 Sk8ermaiden

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 12:23 AM

Yeah...as someone mentioned upthread, looters are not "helping you out." One thing that has been circulated ad nauseum here since Harvey is that FEMA and insurance people have to SEE every last thing you claim if you want any hope of getting compensation for it. There were extra police patrols in flooded neighborhoods, protecting the debris piles in the yard from scrap metal collectors until FEMA came through - because if your appliance is gone, you are not getting paid for it.

 

But also? As people mentioned, looters aren't stealing broken things. Here in Houston a tremendous percentage of homes are two story, and a great number of the flooded homes had only a bit of water in them. They're stealing people's things of value. 


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#60 TechWife

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 12:41 AM

Yeah, I'm really thinking more of targeting stores. But honestly, even with homes - if it's destroyed, all that stuff is trash. I'm not spending hours of my life picking through trash to find my grandma's opal ring or my favorite pair of jeans. I've spent enough of my life digging through trash just cleaning my home. I'm done. It's just stuff. If somebody else can benefit from what is now effectively garbage, well, bully for them. It's just not my priority. That's taking care of people - not things.


That's your decision to make about your grandmothers opal ring, not mine and not a looters. Each homeowner should be given the dignity of deciding what they want to look for, keep and throw away. Each business owner should be accorded that same respect.

Looting is disrespectful to individuals, business owners and the community as a whole. In a time when people have lost so much control over their lives, their homes and perhaps even their jobs, allowing them the dignity of making decisions about what they value and want to save isn't hard to do and it costs us nothing.

The bit about insurance amuses me - not everyone has flood / natural disaster insurance.
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#61 nixpix5

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 12:42 AM

Yet when people loot, it discourages others from evacuating in the future for fear of looters ("I need to stay here and defend my possessions!"). So it leads to longer term lack of safety, which is why the punishment needs to be stiffer (from an econ view).

Emily


Yes. I agree with this. It should be a stiffer sentence as it is not only robbing someone but could cause loss of life later.

Blaming the news for focusing on looting as being the cause someone could lose their life in the future by not evacuating is like blaming a rape victim for wearing a short skirt. Sorry but blame needs to be placed on the criminal. I don't think language needs to be softened here. If someone is committing a crime they are criminals regardless of race. Again, I think police can differentiate between someone taking bread and water from someone taking shoes and laptops. I think the reason the news focuses on looting is because it is shocking to see someone carry a container into a store to haul out stolen merchandise for financial gain. It is disgusting.
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#62 Sk8ermaiden

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 12:51 AM

The first store I heard about being looted in Harvey was a Gamestop. Certainly not essentials.

One of my DH's nurses said she was scared all through the storm - there were looters in her neighborhood and lots of extra police patrols to try to keep them at bay. I asked, "Why on earth would looters go to a neighborhood where no one evacuated?" And she said because it's fairly well known that the neighborhood is full of firefighter's wives (she is one), all of whom were home alone through the duration. It's sickening. I'm glad the penalties are stiffer (though agree they need to be applied equally to all, but are usually not.) 


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#63 ChocolateReign

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 01:07 AM

Yet when people loot, it discourages others from evacuating in the future for fear of looters ("I need to stay here and defend my possessions!"). So it leads to longer term lack of safety, which is why the punishment needs to be stiffer (from an econ view).

 

Emily

 

People generally don't fear evacuation due to those who get stranded and go looking for food and water.


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#64 PineFarmMom

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 07:03 AM

I am just :blink: that someone can't be bothered to care about people taking advantage of others by ROBBING THEM.....because insurance covers it anyway so who cares.


Wow.


I agree!! It is all stealing and it is all wrong. It is looting no matter your skin color.
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#65 creekland

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 08:16 AM

Calling for looters to be particularly harshly punished is offensive and horrifying to me. It calls to mind the extrajudicial "justice" meted out after the Galveston hurricane of 1900. It calls to mind Emmett Till and countless other racially motivated murders. And say what you will, whites and blacks are not treated the same and "looting" is a loaded term. Remember this with Katrina? And on the subject of Katrina, remember the Danziger Bridge shootings? Would that have happened to white civilians?

Watch this. It is a humorous yet cogent commentary (and as a bonus discusses race baiting!) by Jon Stewart. That was after Ferguson. Last month white supremacists marched in Charlottesville. Have we made progress? We need to continue to have a lot of conversations and make a lot of admissions regarding racism. And please, don't play the race baiting card. Let's reserve that for racists.

eta bonus article on Irma "looting": http://www.miaminewt...n-miami-9666645

 

Separate issues.  I suspect you'd get 100% agreement on the Hive that everyone committing the same crime should get the same penalty no matter what the crime is and what the skin color or ethnic origin is.  It doesn't happen - and the fact that it doesn't is horrid.  Period.  We, as a society, need to work on fixing that.

 

BUT, that fact changes nothing regarding the other fact that looting is horrid and needs to have super stiff punishments.  It's taking advantage of disasters and folk's torn desires between protecting themselves and protecting their possessions (that often aren't insured for disasters and/or have sentimental value as well as monetary value).  It's worse than stealing, and stealing is already bad.

 

Then add the armed robbery one is seeing in the islands (and probably other places) and it should make an educated society shudder.

 

Some things simply need to have severe punishments with them in an effort to deter their happening in the future - the same punishment for any color or ethnicity.


Edited by creekland, 14 September 2017 - 08:16 AM.

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#66 bibiche

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 08:46 AM

Separate issues. I suspect you'd get 100% agreement on the Hive that everyone committing the same crime should get the same penalty no matter what the crime is and what the skin color or ethnic origin is. It doesn't happen - and the fact that it doesn't is horrid. Period. We, as a society, need to work on fixing that....

Some things simply need to have severe punishments with them in an effort to deter their happening in the future - the same punishment for any color or ethnicity.


I very much doubt that everyone would agree that the same crime should get the same penalty no matter what the crime and what the skin color or ethnic origin. People on this board regularly refer to other human beings as "illegals." People on this board have professed that they support driving into crowds of BLM supporters who are blocking roads to protest the murder of innocent citizens by police.

The fact of the matter is that whites and minorities do NOT receive the same punishment. Funny how the crimes you think "simply need severe punishments" are small crimes committed by a very small percentage of the population but receiving outsized media coverage because it goes along with the white narrative of the uncivilized black man.

Reminds me of the contrast of media coverage and public opinion and jail time between the crack epidemic and the oxycontin epidemic.
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#67 Lanny

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 08:48 AM

Two shirtless and tattooed men in Jacksonville stole a power pole. That takes looting to a new level, when they are working hard trying to restore power. One of my former colleagues and his family live in Jacksonville. I believe the penalties for Looting should be 2 or 3 times longer than for that type of crime committed under normal circumstances. Looting happens after disasters.

 

http://www.foxnews.c...irmas-wake.html

 


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#68 creekland

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 08:54 AM

I very much doubt that everyone would agree that the same crime should get the same penalty no matter what the crime and what the skin color or ethnic origin. People on this board regularly refer to other human beings as "illegals." People on this board have professed that they support driving into crowds of BLM supporters who are blocking roads to protest the murder of innocent citizens by police.

The fact of the matter is that whites and minorities do NOT receive the same punishment. Funny how the crimes you think "simply need severe punishments" are small crimes committed by a very small percentage of the population but receiving outsized media coverage because it goes along with the white narrative of the uncivilized black man.

Reminds me of the contrast of media coverage and public opinion and jail time between the crack epidemic and the oxycontin epidemic.

 

Small crimes, huh?  My guess once again is that you've never had it happen to you - theft of your business and/or home after a natural disaster.

 

And you might be right with your top paragraph, so I'll revise my 100% down to 95% for Hive members.

 

Yes, I still want to see severe punishment for ALL looters.  I don't care what color or nationality they are.  If they are breaking into places to steal non-essentials after (or even before) a natural disaster, then they deserve it.  


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#69 meganrussell

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 08:58 AM

I have not read this whole thread, but I don't see how anyone could think looting was a small crime. I don't care what color your skin is, looting is taking theft to a whole different level. It's breaking glass windows and stealing TVs and computers and shoes during a crisis. I'm not talking about taking a loaf of bread or a case of water. I mean taking advantage of a bad situation by stealing. It's despicable.
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#70 nixpix5

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 09:18 AM

I very much doubt that everyone would agree that the same crime should get the same penalty no matter what the crime and what the skin color or ethnic origin. People on this board regularly refer to other human beings as "illegals." People on this board have professed that they support driving into crowds of BLM supporters who are blocking roads to protest the murder of innocent citizens by police.

The fact of the matter is that whites and minorities do NOT receive the same punishment. Funny how the crimes you think "simply need severe punishments" are small crimes committed by a very small percentage of the population but receiving outsized media coverage because it goes along with the white narrative of the uncivilized black man.

Reminds me of the contrast of media coverage and public opinion and jail time between the crack epidemic and the oxycontin epidemic.


Wait...I am confused. Are you saying only Black people loot? I think looting is disgusting and should have harsh penalties but it is under the assumption that people of every color need to do some time for it to send a message. Your comment makes it sound like black people are the only ones that loot and it is focused on because of this reason. That feels odd to me. Maybe I am misunderstanding you.
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#71 kahlanne

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 09:45 AM

Having lived through a flood here in Louisiana a year ago there are some things that others may not realize. Unless you actually have your items on the garbage pile at the road, you will not be reimbursed with Fema or insurance. People didn't realize this at first and looters were stealing washers, dryers, etc from the pile of debris at the roads before they had been inspected and verified. This made it very difficult for some to prove they had these items and therefore get reimbursed. It was a huge problem here. Matter of fact, shortly after everyone started gutting their homes, we were asked to not pile stuff at the roads for garbage collection until it could be verified instead making a pile closer to your home only to move it later. This created more work than you can imagine but it was necessary.

 

There is another side of this which I don't personally understand but I know that it is a feeling of many here. Even once everything was verified and placed on the road for garbage pick up, it was illegal to "pick through" garbage. Many people were so raw emotionally. When we drove up and saw piles of  stuff piled higher than the house, it felt like another blow to have people raffle through to see what they deemed good enough for them. Many people stated that these are their memories and lives you are going through. It felt to them like someone digging up graves.

 

This may not be connected to looting but its something that hit me like a ton of bricks. I went to a meeting at a person's home recently. Everything in her home was stunningly beautiful. She told us that she was able to choose everything just as she liked it thanks to the flood and starting over with  only stud walls and a roof. Later when I was home, I told my dh that I loved her large buit-in bookcase  covering one entire wall of the living room along with all the art but I couldn't understand why there were no personal items. Not a single photo to be seen. When we walked through the home, there were so few in the private spaces as well. Originally I thought it was due to her minimalist style but dh pointed out that she probably didn't have any photos having lost them in the floods. That just hit me like a ton of bricks. I know she lost a toddler grandchild to a horrible accident  a few years ago and can't help but wonder if she even has a photo of her. So many flooded and lost all. Her children flooded as well. Last night when we went back to her home I overheard her thank someone for the compliments on the bookcase but that sadly most of the wicker boxes in the bottom were empty. She used them for decor because she has nothing to fill them. Its been 13 months now. Sometimes things are just things but many times they are more than that.


Edited by kahlanne, 14 September 2017 - 09:47 AM.

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#72 Janeway

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 09:53 AM

Does anyone know if the punishment for looting is stiffer than for "regular" stealing? If not, I think it ought to be.

I think it should be the death penalty. Or at least have a much higher punishment, including guaranteed prison time as well as having to pay reparations times a certain amount. Obviously I do not really think they should have the death penalty (but would not be opposed to a homeowner shooting them dead) but the punishment needs to be severe, very severe.



#73 happysmileylady

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 10:02 AM

I have been trying to figure out if I think it should have a stiffer penalty.  Because at first I was kind of like "stealing is stealing" (excepting of course when people NEED something.  Breaking into Kroger and stealing a pack of diapers="gathering supplies"  Breaking into Kroger and clearing out the entire diaper aisle to sell online=looting)

 

But...the thing about looting is, it's particularly about taking from people who are at their most vulnerable.  Emergency services are totally overwhelmed or non existent, security and alarm systems are down or intermittent, and people are gone or overwhelmed or even injured, and THATs when looters strike. 

 

Yes, it should have stiffer penalties.  What...I don't know, but I do think it's worse than "regular" stealing. 


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#74 bibiche

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 10:03 AM

Wait...I am confused. Are you saying only Black people loot? I think looting is disgusting and should have harsh penalties but it is under the assumption that people of every color need to do some time for it to send a message. Your comment makes it sound like black people are the only ones that loot and it is focused on because of this reason. That feels odd to me. Maybe I am misunderstanding you.


Yes, you are misunderstanding me.

#75 Bluegoat

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 10:13 AM

I have been trying to figure out if I think it should have a stiffer penalty.  Because at first I was kind of like "stealing is stealing" (excepting of course when people NEED something.  Breaking into Kroger and stealing a pack of diapers="gathering supplies"  Breaking into Kroger and clearing out the entire diaper aisle to sell online=looting)

 

But...the thing about looting is, it's particularly about taking from people who are at their most vulnerable.  Emergency services are totally overwhelmed or non existent, security and alarm systems are down or intermittent, and people are gone or overwhelmed or even injured, and THATs when looters strike. 

 

Yes, it should have stiffer penalties.  What...I don't know, but I do think it's worse than "regular" stealing. 

 

I tend not to want stiffer penalties for special circumstances, but I think these incidences do have a greater effect, because they divert the energies of the police, and can encourage people to make bad choices about things like staying in their homes.

 

I don't know that it would be much harsher penalties, but somewhat harsher seems right.


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#76 shawthorne44

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 10:59 AM

That's your decision to make about your grandmothers opal ring, not mine and not a looters. Each homeowner should be given the dignity of deciding what they want to look for, keep and throw away. Each business owner should be accorded that same respect.

Looting is disrespectful to individuals, business owners and the community as a whole. In a time when people have lost so much control over their lives, their homes and perhaps even their jobs, allowing them the dignity of making decisions about what they value and want to save isn't hard to do and it costs us nothing.

The bit about insurance amuses me - not everyone has flood / natural disaster insurance.

 

I agree.   I'd be digging through for Grandma's Opal Ring.   I'd also be digging through for my clothes.  They can be washed, and I hate to shop.  There are many things that someone might steal that have major sentimental value for me.  Like my daughter's piggy bank is a very old post office box.   It was a gift from my grandfather who had been a postal carrier, and came from the post office in the small town where my paternal family is from.  Some looter might see cash in there and just grab the whole thing.  Then later toss the box.  

 

When DH gutted and rebuilt the home we live in now, I also dug through the debris for metal pieces and usable wood.   I guess I'd rather dig through, then be wasteful.   I've even dug through with the intention of donating everything.  A good friend of ours has a small house in the country that he 'rented' out, but the people never actually paid rent.   They also didn't pay for garbage pickup, so when they vacated the shed was filled with garbage bags which included dirty diapers.  They left a vast majority of their stuff that had obviously been donated to them.   DH disposed of the trash bags, and brought everything else home.   I washed or cleaned everything that was in good enough shape to be donated.  


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#77 Pam in CT

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 12:38 PM

Two shirtless and tattooed men in Jacksonville stole a power pole. That takes looting to a new level, when they are working hard trying to restore power. One of my former colleagues and his family live in Jacksonville. I believe the penalties for Looting should be 2 or 3 times longer than for that type of crime committed under normal circumstances. Looting happens after disasters.

 

http://www.foxnews.c...irmas-wake.html

 

 

OMG Lanny you have MADE MY DAY.  

 

Before I clicked on your link, in my head, I was imagining a kerosene-soaked wooden pole, which is what we have here.  In my head, I was musing, wonder what these guys want a power pole for.  In my head, I was speculating that maybe they were trying somehow to reach a stranded person, maybe somehow to prop up a storm-imperiled building, something like that.

 

Click. 

 

:lol:

 

OK, first of all, it's a massive METAL pole.  Second of all, it was removed from a BRIDGE, among the first structures to be investigated after the surges subsided.  Third of all, the thieves attached the pole to a CAR and drove off.  Not a truck, not a van, nothing remotely official-looking, just an ordinary Mom-type car... with this [email protected] ginormous POLE hanging yards and yards and yards off the back, not too hard for LEO to track down.  #Hilarious.

 

 

But not the best part.

 

 

Apeler told investigators he was moving the pole because it was on the ground close to traffic lanes, according to the report.

 
A database search found Apeler had 72 scrap metal-related transactions for recycling since January.

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#78 Leav97

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 12:41 PM

I think it should be the death penalty. Or at least have a much higher punishment, including guaranteed prison time as well as having to pay reparations times a certain amount. Obviously I do not really think they should have the death penalty (but would not be opposed to a homeowner shooting them dead) but the punishment needs to be severe, very severe.

 

IMHO, wanting to see someone DIE for stealing shoes\TVs is immoral.


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#79 eternalsummer

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 12:48 PM

I very much doubt that everyone would agree that the same crime should get the same penalty no matter what the crime and what the skin color or ethnic origin. People on this board regularly refer to other human beings as "illegals." People on this board have professed that they support driving into crowds of BLM supporters who are blocking roads to protest the murder of innocent citizens by police.

The fact of the matter is that whites and minorities do NOT receive the same punishment. Funny how the crimes you think "simply need severe punishments" are small crimes committed by a very small percentage of the population but receiving outsized media coverage because it goes along with the white narrative of the uncivilized black man.

Reminds me of the contrast of media coverage and public opinion and jail time between the crack epidemic and the oxycontin epidemic.

 

 

I am almost 100% certainly the most politically and socially conservative member of this board.

 

I think the same crime should get the same penalty regardless of skin color or ethnic origin.  People who are in the US illegally (that is to say, "illegals") should be treated equally in a legal sense regardless of skin color - Asians who are here illegally, Latinos who are here illegally, Nigerians who are here illegally, Swedes who are here illegally - none of that makes any difference in whether someone who is here illegally should be deported.

 

You may think they should be allowed to stay, and I may think they should be deported, but I definitely don't think some illegal immigrants should be allowed to stay and others deported because of the color of their skin or the language they speak.

 

BLM supporters do not always protest the murder of innocent citizens; they protest the killing of civilians, who may or may not have been innocent.  I can't believe anyone on this board has ever expressed support for killing peaceful protesters (or even not-that-peaceful ones, honestly).  Certainly I think that is reprehensible.

 

I do think people who are illegally protesting in a street (that is, shutting down traffic without a permit) are taking their own lives in their hands, just as I would be if I went out to stand on a highway.  I wouldn't kill someone for standing in the highway in protest, but I'd be pissed at them for blocking traffic without a permit.


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#80 Silver Brook

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 02:33 PM

Race bait, huh? No, speaking about racism is not race baiting. But calling someone a race baiter for pointing out racism is a good way to try to shut down a conversation about race and often very effective. It is a particularly popular tactic in right-wing media such as Fox News. The same network that likes to stoke white fears of "savage man beast" looters.

That coded language employed by Fox News is offensive. Calling for looters to be particularly harshly punished is offensive and horrifying to me. It calls to mind the extrajudicial "justice" meted out after the Galveston hurricane of 1900. It calls to mind Emmett Till and countless other racially motivated murders. And say what you will, whites and blacks are not treated the same and "looting" is a loaded term. Remember this with Katrina? And on the subject of Katrina, remember the Danziger Bridge shootings? Would that have happened to white civilians?

Watch this. It is a humorous yet cogent commentary (and as a bonus discusses race baiting!) by Jon Stewart. That was after Ferguson. Last month white supremacists marched in Charlottesville. Have we made progress? We need to continue to have a lot of conversations and make a lot of admissions regarding racism. And please, don't play the race baiting card. Let's reserve that for racists.

eta bonus article on Irma "looting": http://www.miaminewt...n-miami-9666645

OP's topic was about looting and not race related at all. Please respect the topic and the OP. Most of your quotes, comments, and links are off topic...they are about racism , not looting.
I am all for discussing issues and I think if you would have started your own topic on racism and perception/language used in the media re: getting supplies vs looting ..it may have been a thought provoking and interesting thread . It is a shame that is not what you did.

Edited by Silver Brook, 14 September 2017 - 02:35 PM.

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#81 onelittlemonkey

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 03:21 PM

I think maybe a good punishment for those who loot would be to put them on a 'clean up duty' of some sort. Instead of prison time, let them work alongside people and business owners/workers trying to recover and rebuild. Admittedly, i have no idea how to make that work legally.

#82 Teacher Mom

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 03:35 PM

What about black looters who steal from black people? How does that fit into "everything to do with race." Living in Louisiana, we had our share of hurricanes. The men on our block took turns staying at our homes because the looters would come and take what little the flood did not damage. Yep, all those things you learn to pack into Tupperware  containers -- pictures, valuables, personal items -- all the things you can't take with you because you can't, not enough room -- someone will steal out of your house. My uncle was shot by two men trying to loot his house during Rita, a house that was flooded and that they used a boat to get to. Are all looters black? Of course not. But to imply that looters don't steal from other black/white people is just stupid. These people are not looking for food: they are there to take what the flooding has made suddenly available to them. It is not a myth. Usually the sound of a rifle shot into the air is enough to let them know someone is still in the home.

 

Do you understand the crushing disappointment you feel in humanity when you stay days without electricity and are using water out of the bathtub to flush the toilet, only to find men and boys sneaking up to your house to see if anyone is home (in order to rob your house)? Best penalty would be to give them to us. We don't care about their race.


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#83 bibiche

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 04:14 PM

OP's topic was about looting and not race related at all. Please respect the topic and the OP. Most of your quotes, comments, and links are off topic...they are about racism , not looting.
I am all for discussing issues and I think if you would have started your own topic on racism and perception/language used in the media re: getting supplies vs looting ..it may have been a thought provoking and interesting thread . It is a shame that is not what you did.

 

I disagree with you. And your admonition to respect the topic is ridiculous. I was replying to the topic. If in your opinion I wasn't, whatever, that's on you. Don't try to shut me down by crying "race baiting," because as mentioned earlier, there is a reason people do that and you probably don't want to be associated with that reason.

 

Conversations have a life of their own and posters read things through their own filters. When I read "looting" and how we need to have harsh penalties for it, I responded  with my own perception of what that might mean given the time and the place that we live. Racism doesn't have to be treated in its own little boxed in area in its own little antiseptic thread because you don't want to discuss it, because you don't perceive it or want to think about the issue the way someone else does. I would argue, in fact, that something so pervasive and insidious as racism should be a topic that is discussed in all sorts of contexts so that people begin to recognize its presence and think about things in ways that they otherwise might not. 


Edited by bibiche, 14 September 2017 - 04:14 PM.


#84 ebrindam

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 07:48 AM

I think it should be the death penalty. Or at least have a much higher punishment, including guaranteed prison time as well as having to pay reparations times a certain amount. Obviously I do not really think they should have the death penalty (but would not be opposed to a homeowner shooting them dead) but the punishment needs to be severe, very severe.

 

Wow.