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Struggling reader starting AAS 1?


Momof3plus
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Hi, my nearly 7 yr old who just started formal reading instruction about 3 months ago, although he's doing okay and can read the level 6 Julia Donaldson phonics books, he has a weak visual memory and struggles to remember words that he's read 10 times on the previous page! Apparently he's above average in his IQ but his poor visual memory is holding him back slightly with his reason.

 

We made great progress recently after I didtched PP and went straight to just reading books and explaining the rules to him as we go. But he's still struggling with his fluency speed and recall of sight words.

 

I'm wondering if drilling phonogram flashcards might help but rather than going backwards and starting with AAR 1, maybe, as I've not done any spelling with him, we could start AAS1 and this would kill 2 birds with one stone...he'd be learning all the phonograms and spelling rules which should help him with his reading....no?

 

Good idea or not?

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Personally, I wouldn't with a struggling reader.

 

AAS introduces phonograms VERY slowly.  It makes sense since the kids are having to encode words with them instead of just decode.  You don't learn about ph saying /f/ or words that end in "tion" until level 4.  The phonogram "ough" isn't taught until level 5.  The phonogram "mb" isn't taught until level 6; I think a struggling reader is going to want to read about lambs and tombs and combs and bombs way before they get to level 6.

 

I think AAS is fine for a strong, intuitive reader who just needs a bit of formal review of the seldom-encountered, upper-level phonograms, but for a struggling reader, I would definitely stick to a reading program.  

 

Wendy

Edited by wendyroo
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Not knowing the word after you read it so many times is what my dyslexic does or did till I got him appropriate interventions.

 

If you think it's actually visual memory, I would take him to a developmental optometrist and get it checked. He's certainly not too young to do vision therapy and get it improved. My non-dyslexic dd (now 18) did VT and it was terrifically helpful for her. She didn't have therapy for it till she was 10/11, iirc, and she learned to read just fine. COVD is where you find a developmental optometrist.

 

As far as AAS for that, I agree it moves awfully slowly to be of benefit. I taught my dd to read with SWR (AAS wasn't even out then, hehe), and SWR definitely had that effect of bumping reading in kids who were on the edge. It covers more material upfront than the AAS/AAR stuff does, so I'm not sure I would expect it to have the same effect.

 

You really want to know whether there's a phonological processing issue, whether it's a fluency issue, whether it's a visual memory issue, etc. Those would all be treated very differently.

Edited by OhElizabeth
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Thanks for all the replies, that definitely helps to know how slow AAS goes. I think I'll leave AAS. I was considering Spalding but I'm worried as a new homeschool with other littles around that I just won't be able to get it done. I really want something that holds my hand and does the prep work for me 😕

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There's no prep to WRTR. Once you learn the methodology, you just implement it with the word lists. Well there's prep in the sense that you need to learn the methodology, sure. However once you get it down, it's open and go.

 

Is this the first dc you've taught to read? It's ok to do some work on fluency. My ds is dyslexic, so once I was sure he understood the decoding of the words, I put the words on Quizlet and drilled them to fluency. My dd needed fluency drills too, and she is not dyslexic. In those days we used index cards. :)  I taught my dd to read with SWR/WRTR, so I am partial to it for a dc with no SLDs. For my ds, I used Barton.

SaveSave

Edited by OhElizabeth
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This is exactly the kind of thing that All About Reading was designed to do--to help children move from having to sound out words over and over to fluent reading. You wouldn't have to go backward with AAR. You use the placement tests to figure out where he is--what can he read fluently, and what still needs ongoing work and practice--and then you start at that level. If he still sounds out most level 1 words, then he should start there to build up fluency and confidence. If he's fluent there, move on to level 2--and so on.

 

The spelling and reading programs are separate from each other because it tends to take more time for students to become automatic with spelling, as others have said. Here's more information on why the programs are taught separately.

 

Using the spelling program to teach reading usually works best for kids who learn to read easily and don't need a lot of fluency practice. You certainly could use the phonogram cards with your child now if you have them already--the reading program uses those also, and being automatic with the phonogram cards is one of the scaffolding steps towards fluent reading.

 

Spelling helps to reinforce reading. It just tends to not be enough of the right kind of practice for students who need it. Many students need to sound out words 30-50 times before they read them fluently, so you want to include a lot of varied practice to help them. So, if you are wanting to work on fluent reading--definitely use the reading program instead.

HTH some!

 

 

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If you look at recent brain research, the brains of good readers are reading every sound, just very fast in parallel.  So, I would just teach the sight words with phonics.

 

You can see my sight word page for an explanation how and why:

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Reading/sightwords.html

 

I also have a lot of sight word movies explaining the same thing, and the Know Sight Words summary teaches them all very quickly:

 

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJLxBWdK_5l2AdSYtPS1d426P8rIv66eT

 

You could also quickly work through my Syllables program, it teaches a lot of phonics quickly, the first 4 videos are online at YouTube and the rest there is a transcript for and the videos will release one per week until done:

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Reading/syllablesspellsu.html

 

Here are some good videos about the brain research behind how the brain reads:

 

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJLxBWdK_5l1u9v4FTXD3CXgCBIGeSZpM

 

My online phonics movies also teach a lot of phonics quickly, but are pretty boring for that age.  They are all online, though, and you could try them:

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/Phonics%20Lsns/phonicslsnslinks.html

 

(I made the syllables series to teach most of the same thing but in a bit more fun way for a younger student.)

Edited by ElizabethB
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FWIW---I think it is very common for 7-year-olds to read the same word over and over again and have to sound-it-out each and every time they come to it.   (Even if they have just read it 10 times on the previous page!)  That is one of the reasons teaching kids to read can be so frustrating.  If you ask around, most people will say that teaching a child to read can be one of the most difficult things.  There will be times where you want to bang your head against the wall.   

 

So--if you ask me---I don't think it is necessarily indicative of a visual memory issue or dyslexia.   It might just be lack of experience.    Typically automaticity in reading will not come until there has been a GREAT deal of practice put in.    That is why lots and lots of practice reading is very important for children.   Of course, there will be children who seemingly effortlessly and naturally learn to read.  (Sort of like Scout in the book "To Kill a Mocking Bird".)   You may hear tales of these kids on this board or among friends, but I would say that results are not typical.   For most kids, it is going to take a TON of practice in order to develop the type of automaticity in reading that you are talking about.   (Disclaimer:   Of course, you know your child best.   If you think there is a chance you are dealing with some sort of learning issue, it doesn't hurt to get an evaluation.  Right?)   

 

When a child is learning to read, they will often have to stop and sound-out each and every word they encounter over and over and over again.   That is actually a good thing.   You want to encourage them to look through the word and say the sounds as opposed to pushing "sight reading" too soon.   If the child isn't sure of the word, they should sound it out.   You do not want to encourage guessing or sight reading.    Those strategies might make more fluent "first grade readers", but they are bad strategies long term.   Once they get into about 4th and 5th grade and need to read a lot of science or history with many unfamiliar words, the sight reading strategy falls apart and they are left at a disadvantage.   They need to learn to sound through words, and they need to learn syllabication.   Just ask ElizabethB above!   She has spent a good portion of her life helping children who have developed a sort of "sight word dyslexia".   So my advice:   Try your very best to be patient and encouraging.   Praise the child for taking the time to sound-out the words, and do not push for automaticity too soon.   It will come.

 

In the mean time.....

 

I know everyone is throwing out a bunch of resources at you...so I hesitate to add to the pile.   However, I feel like I would be doing a disservice not to point out a particular resource to you because it really would be perfect for what you are dealing with.   

 

Check out the "I See Sam" readers.  They are sort of miracle workers when it comes to teaching a kid to read with more fluency.    You can see samples of them on this page, and you can order printed copies of the books on this page.    I was experiencing this EXACT same issue with my children.   Nothing I was doing was helping with fluency or automaticity.   People on this board kept recommending these readers to me over and over and over again.   I kept dismissing their recommendations because, at first glance, they look just like any other beginning phonics based reader.   Right?  I thought, "I have a bunch of early readers and they aren't helping!  I'm not going to buy even more."   (At the time, I was going through AAR with all of the readers and fluency pages, plus a bunch of other phonics based readers.)   

 

Anyways, I got sort of desperate, so I did the placement test (on this page...called performance indicator) and purchased the I See Sam reader level that I needed used.   Well, let me tell you, they really ARE different than so many other early readers.   I was wrong to dismiss them.   They slowly.....very, very, very, very slowly....spoon feed the alphabetic code to children.   In teeny-tiny bite sized pieces, then they review, review, review the phonics like crazy.   (Except it is all done through reading stories as opposed to fluency sheets or flashcards.)   There are also many checks in the text to make sure the child is not reading by sight.  For example, the words "spot" might be practiced, and then they throw in the word stop to make sure the chlid is really saying the sounds in the word.)   Anyways, the books are really well researched.   (I think I even saw a link to one of the research reports in ElizabethBs phonics lessons!   It was about the long term effect of children who had been taught to read using these readers.  The effects probably apply to all children who are taught to read phonetically, but it is still cool.)   

 

Long story short, I just thought I would mention these readers.   We used them in conjunction with the AAR/AAS letter tiles.   I would introduce any new letter sounds in the readers first with the magnetic letter tiles (AU for example) and then build a bunch of words with the letter tiles, play "change a word" by switching out sounds, etc.   Then I would ask them to spell a few words with the letter tiles that had that sound in it.   Then, we would read the reader.   We did two short reading lessons per day.   In the AM, we would review a reader that they read from the previous day.  Then, after a break, we would introduce/review any new sounds/words with the letter tiles.   Then read the new reader.    When they were just starting--- we used a notched business card and I would uncover one sound at a time in the book and encourage them to through the words with their eyes, saying each sound.  (This is the same method used in resources like Dancing Bears...except the phonics taught in Dancing Bears is not as sound as that in AAS/AAR/WRTR/Elizabethphonics/etc.  But the noticed card method is effective in teaching a child from looking at the whole word.)    This method, paired with the readers, was the magic solution that finally encouraged some fluency in my children.   I know I sound like an "I See Sam" infomercial---I promise I am not paid or affiliated with the company at all.  lol   But they were just really effective for my situation after nothing worked, so I wanted to tell you about them.   

 

ETA:  If finances are an issue, you really can't beat some of the free resources on Elizabeth's website.   The phonics is very sound.   (Thank you for providing them Elizabeth!!)

And, there are ways of getting the I see Sam readers for free.   They are in the public domain I think.   Supposedly, if you email the guy from the 3rs website, he will give you electronic copies of the books.  I am old fashioned and prefer actual books when learning to read...not ebooks.    FYI...The publishers at the website "I see sam" are not affiliated with the original creators/researchers.   They are just the only place currently printing the books.   So, you can buy the books from them, but you may want to ignore all of the instructional material they added to the beginning of the book.   According to one of the original creators, you should use the method outlined on the 3rs website.  (I know...confusing!)   The method is simple though...say the sounds and then read the word.   :)

 

We also used AAS to teach spelling, and I think it is a GREAT spelling program---not a great reading program because that isn't what it is designed for.   We started about a year after the child has been reading (first grade for us).   Your child might be ready to start now.   It reviews the phonics concepts, so it is helpful with that, but if your goal is to teach fluency, AAS is probably not a good bet.   It does go way too slowly and works more on breaking an existing word into its separate sounds.  (Reading is related, but opposite:  You take individual sounds represented by letters and put them together into a word.)    

 

Best wishes!!

 

Edited by TheAttachedMama
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Thank you so much everyone for you're replies.

 

Attached Mama - I'm definitely going to look into the I see Sam books. You've convinced me! AAS I'll leave just for spelling once he's more fluently reading.

 

I've written all the two letter phonograms on index cards and we're reviewing them daily. Plus I'm doing 5 mins of fluency practice from the phonics pathways book. The fact that it's only 5 mins is much more palatable to him!

 

 

I'll let you know how we get on.

 

Xxx

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FWIW---I think it is very common for 7-year-olds to read the same word over and over again and have to sound-it-out each and every time they come to it.   (Even if they have just read it 10 times on the previous page!)  That is one of the reasons teaching kids to read can be so frustrating.  If you ask around, most people will say that teaching a child to read can be one of the most difficult things.  There will be times where you want to bang your head against the wall.   

 

So--if you ask me---I don't think it is necessarily indicative of a visual memory issue or dyslexia.   It might just be lack of experience.    Typically automaticity in reading will not come until there has been a GREAT deal of practice put in.    That is why lots and lots of practice reading is very important for children.   Of course, there will be children who seemingly effortlessly and naturally learn to read.  (Sort of like Scout in the book "To Kill a Mocking Bird".)   You may hear tales of these kids on this board or among friends, but I would say that results are not typical.   For most kids, it is going to take a TON of practice in order to develop the type of automaticity in reading that you are talking about.   (Disclaimer:   Of course, you know your child best.   If you think there is a chance you are dealing with some sort of learning issue, it doesn't hurt to get an evaluation.  Right?)   

 

When a child is learning to read, they will often have to stop and sound-out each and every word they encounter over and over and over again.   That is actually a good thing.   You want to encourage them to look through the word and say the sounds as opposed to pushing "sight reading" too soon.   If the child isn't sure of the word, they should sound it out.   You do not want to encourage guessing or sight reading.    Those strategies might make more fluent "first grade readers", but they are bad strategies long term.   Once they get into about 4th and 5th grade and need to read a lot of science or history with many unfamiliar words, the sight reading strategy falls apart and they are left at a disadvantage.   They need to learn to sound through words, and they need to learn syllabication.   Just ask ElizabethB above!   She has spent a good portion of her life helping children who have developed a sort of "sight word dyslexia".   So my advice:   Try your very best to be patient and encouraging.   Praise the child for taking the time to sound-out the words, and do not push for automaticity too soon.   It will come.

 

In the mean time.....

 

I know everyone is throwing out a bunch of resources at you...so I hesitate to add to the pile.   However, I feel like I would be doing a disservice not to point out a particular resource to you because it really would be perfect for what you are dealing with.   

 

Check out the "I See Sam" readers.  They are sort of miracle workers when it comes to teaching a kid to read with more fluency.    You can see samples of them on this page, and you can order printed copies of the books on this page.    I was experiencing this EXACT same issue with my children.   Nothing I was doing was helping with fluency or automaticity.   People on this board kept recommending these readers to me over and over and over again.   I kept dismissing their recommendations because, at first glance, they look just like any other beginning phonics based reader.   Right?  I thought, "I have a bunch of early readers and they aren't helping!  I'm not going to buy even more."   (At the time, I was going through AAR with all of the readers and fluency pages, plus a bunch of other phonics based readers.)   

 

Anyways, I got sort of desperate, so I did the placement test (on this page...called performance indicator) and purchased the I See Sam reader level that I needed used.   Well, let me tell you, they really ARE different than so many other early readers.   I was wrong to dismiss them.   They slowly.....very, very, very, very slowly....spoon feed the alphabetic code to children.   In teeny-tiny bite sized pieces, then they review, review, review the phonics like crazy.   (Except it is all done through reading stories as opposed to fluency sheets or flashcards.)   There are also many checks in the text to make sure the child is not reading by sight.  For example, the words "spot" might be practiced, and then they throw in the word stop to make sure the chlid is really saying the sounds in the word.)   Anyways, the books are really well researched.   (I think I even saw a link to one of the research reports in ElizabethBs phonics lessons!   It was about the long term effect of children who had been taught to read using these readers.  The effects probably apply to all children who are taught to read phonetically, but it is still cool.)   

 

Long story short, I just thought I would mention these readers.   We used them in conjunction with the AAR/AAS letter tiles.   I would introduce any new letter sounds in the readers first with the magnetic letter tiles (AU for example) and then build a bunch of words with the letter tiles, play "change a word" by switching out sounds, etc.   Then I would ask them to spell a few words with the letter tiles that had that sound in it.   Then, we would read the reader.   We did two short reading lessons per day.   In the AM, we would review a reader that they read from the previous day.  Then, after a break, we would introduce/review any new sounds/words with the letter tiles.   Then read the new reader.    When they were just starting--- we used a notched business card and I would uncover one sound at a time in the book and encourage them to through the words with their eyes, saying each sound.  (This is the same method used in resources like Dancing Bears...except the phonics taught in Dancing Bears is not as sound as that in AAS/AAR/WRTR/Elizabethphonics/etc.  But the noticed card method is effective in teaching a child from looking at the whole word.)    This method, paired with the readers, was the magic solution that finally encouraged some fluency in my children.   I know I sound like an "I See Sam" infomercial---I promise I am not paid or affiliated with the company at all.  lol   But they were just really effective for my situation after nothing worked, so I wanted to tell you about them.   

 

ETA:  If finances are an issue, you really can't beat some of the free resources on Elizabeth's website.   The phonics is very sound.   (Thank you for providing them Elizabeth!!)

And, there are ways of getting the I see Sam readers for free.   They are in the public domain I think.   Supposedly, if you email the guy from the 3rs website, he will give you electronic copies of the books.  I am old fashioned and prefer actual books when learning to read...not ebooks.    FYI...The publishers at the website "I see sam" are not affiliated with the original creators/researchers.   They are just the only place currently printing the books.   So, you can buy the books from them, but you may want to ignore all of the instructional material they added to the beginning of the book.   According to one of the original creators, you should use the method outlined on the 3rs website.  (I know...confusing!)   The method is simple though...say the sounds and then read the word.   :)

 

We also used AAS to teach spelling, and I think it is a GREAT spelling program---not a great reading program because that isn't what it is designed for.   We started about a year after the child has been reading (first grade for us).   Your child might be ready to start now.   It reviews the phonics concepts, so it is helpful with that, but if your goal is to teach fluency, AAS is probably not a good bet.   It does go way too slowly and works more on breaking an existing word into its separate sounds.  (Reading is related, but opposite:  You take individual sounds represented by letters and put them together into a word.)    

 

Best wishes!!

 

 

Do we need the teachers manual for these, or can we get by just purchasing the readers?

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