Going to visit Brehm School

[Terabith]

We are in Carbondale, IL, and it's a school for kids with complex learning issues. I'm curious.

[Lecka]

Tell us how it goes :)

[Terabith]

It was amazing. I'm actually in tears. The psychologist got more out of her in 40 minutes than any other expert, and in some ways more than I've gotten out of her in 12 years. It's a whole school full of kids just like her. They GET her. They have a D&D club. They are her people. The teachers were awesome. SHE liked it, and she didn't like Disney.

 

And we could never afford it. I'm currently wondering if we can move and I can get some kind of job that could make enough money.

[Lecka]

Maybe she could get a school placement there, I think you mentioned that before.

 

Well I am glad it was good, sorry it ismaybe not available.

 

The psychologist sounds amazing!

Edited August 18, 2017 by Lecka

[kbutton]

It was amazing. I'm actually in tears. The psychologist got more out of her in 40 minutes than any other expert, and in some ways more than I've gotten out of her in 12 years. It's a whole school full of kids just like her. They GET her. They have a D&D club. They are her people. The teachers were awesome. SHE liked it, and she didn't like Disney.

 

And we could never afford it. I'm currently wondering if we can move and I can get some kind of job that could make enough money.

 

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

 

Maybe they can work with you from time to time on a consulting basis to keep her moving in a positive direction.

[Terabith]

My friend brought us, and it turned out the psychologist was best friends with my friend's younger brother.

[kwickimom]

My brother in law works there! He and my sister live in one of the dorms- he runs the dorm at night and is the activities director and does PE classses. He's awesome and so is the whole place! 

[geodob]

Terabith, it is possible to get funding towards a private school.

It depends on whether a local school is able to provide the support/ services that a student needs?

Which they are legally required to provide.

But if they currently don't, and their is a private school that can provide the needed support/ services?

Then they will do a cost comparison, between providing the support, and paying for a private school?

 

So that if it costs them less to pay for private school placement? Then they will provide funding.

So perhaps this is a possibility?

[PeterPan]

What geodob is talking about actually does happen. It's called full placement. Maybe that's not the legal term, but that's what they call it around here. So you would have to enroll her in the ps, have the ps write an IEP (takes a year) and the ps states that they cannot meet her needs in their school and are going to pay for full placement (ie. them paying to do what they're obligated by law to do but can't do) in another school. 

 

The school you're looking at (Brehm) would know how often this happens in your area and how likely it is. It's something we've talked about with ds, because it's a path people will use with autism. Our state has a disability scholarship, and they fight you tooth and nail on the tiers, because they know that some kids, like mine, would be very expensive if they had to pay for full placement. The scholarship is capped, but full placement isn't. So in theory a kid could max out the scholarship and the parent could decide they want to fight for full placement, which would be much higher.

 

In other words, while there are school districts that do it, it's nothing something they do willy nilly or like candy, because it's very $$$$$$$$$ for them to do. Think about it. They wouldn't have to just do the $46K a year tuition at that school. They would ALSO have to pay for any additional therapy services she qualified for (OT, SLP, counseling, whatever). For some kids, that full placement can be very, very high! ($60+k). So of course the schools are going to fight that. 

 

If the child is functioning in a regular, mainstream classroom and is able to "access her education" then fat chance on getting full placement. She's already functioning in a school and accessing her education. The mom is just saying this would be better. Or maybe she's not? But it takes a lot of steps to prove she's not, go through the IEP process, and make something like that happen. And if she can walk into the ps and function in their set-up, they're not gonna pay for full placement. Doesn't matter what is ideal, only whether they met the dot of the law and can wash their hands.

Edited August 19, 2017 by OhElizabeth

[PeterPan]

About your original question, yes, I think that could be on the table to move and take a job to fund going to that school. If they're actually doing everything they claim to do, and IF they're actually using qualified people to do that level of interaction, then I would probably put that on the table. I personally can't earn enough to fund $46k a year after taxes. Like that's a stinking boatload of money! But if you have a way, absolutely put it on the table.

 

I've talked with people who moved for speech therapy. Sometimes you get these convergences, like therapy plus a really special school. There's a set-up like that in Cincinnati, and I've talked with people who move to go there. I just don't have one close to me.

 

What intrigues me, beyond their vision and claims, is to figure out what level of people they're hiring. It's IL, so it's going to be expensive. However I'm wondering if that $$$ is because they're using more highly qualified people. Like if I go to a particular autism charter (not the one where we've done services but a different one), in that low ratio classroom only ONE person will be well-qualified to work with my ds. The other two workers are mindless, low training level aid workers. They're assembling Mr. Potato Heads and telling kids to go to the playground. That's not good intervention and that's not worth the $35K a year the school charges, not for my situation. But if this Brehm school is charging more and then, in turn, hiring more teachers and more SLPs and less unskilled aides, that's really different, kwim? Quality interaction ALWAYS costs more. It's not like you get that level of interaction for nothing.

 

My ds is having a lot of issues now because he just is not going to engage or be intrigued by boring people. And we can have all kinds of theories about how kids ought to put up with boredom, blah blah, but reality is he's got a gifted IQ and when the novelty wears off you need to actually ahve some BRAINS in your head so you can have an intelligent conversation and be interesting to hang with.

 

So to me, that's what I'd be looking at, what the caliber of people is she'd be interacting with for that $46K a year. Given their vision, I'm guessing it's high. Good schools put their money into people, because the people are the magic. But I'd judge that by what you actually see going on in the classroom.

 

I also think it's interesting the list they're NOT willing to take into the school. 

 

So do you think you might actually do this? 

[Dmmetler]

It's heartbreaking. We considered seriously a move cross-country for DD to attend a specific school as well that seemed made for her (which turned her down). DD cried at the drop of a hat for weeks. I cried when she couldn't see it.

[OneStepAtATime]

Have you looked at other schools that might offer what she needs but at a price that isn't quite so steep?

 

There is one in Houston that has a good reputation.  I think it is around $20,000 a year.  Still out of my price range and I can't move to Houston right now but that is less than half of what you are looking at so I thought I would mention it.

 

https://briarwoodschool.org/

 

Groves in Minnesota is a good school.  The kids went there for a summer program once so I did some research. I was really impressed with all the support they provide even after graduation, the outreach they offer to the community at large, the great seminars, and the really great teachers the kids had.  I have no idea how well it compares to something like the school you looked at but last time I checked I think the cost was closer to $25,000.

 

http://www.grovesacademy.org/

 

Just thought I would mention that if you are truly looking at moving you might expand your search.  There may be other options out there that would really help her but would not be quite so steep on price.

[PeterPan]

That Brehm school looked like they're do a lot of that, um, change your brain (I forget the name) type cognitive therapy. Do they? Did you see the clock on the imac on their website? What is that? Is it math software or is it part of that cognitive therapy? 

[EKS]

That Brehm school looked like they're do a lot of that, um, change your brain (I forget the name) type cognitive therapy. Do they? Did you see the clock on the imac on their website? What is that? Is it math software or is it part of that cognitive therapy? 

 

Arrowsmith is the name.  If you click on the picture of the computer with the clock on it, it takes you to a page titled Brehm Arrowsmith Program.

[PeterPan]

Wow, that Arrowsmith program is a ton of work!!

[EKS]

Wow, that Arrowsmith program is a ton of work!!

 

Yes--we have a center locally.  I considered it for my son who has handwriting issues and motor planning problems, but I've heard that the part time program takes several hours per day and costs something like $10,000.  Yikes!

[Terabith]

Yeah, I don't know about the Arrowsmith program. They don't charge for that. Therapy is built into the program. What was key to me is there are lots of schools that do learning disabilities, lots of autism schools, but not many that deal with gifted AND LD AND autism. The price is high because low ratios and all their people are trained. No low level people, except some dorm parents in the residential program.

 

Part of the reason moving is on table is because my best friend, adopted father person and family are here.

 

I thought about the out placement but I don't think there's a rat's chance in hell of getting it because she sits quietly and behaves and doesn't cause any problems and nobody notices she's not learning or functioning. Everyone who has evaluated her has said not to put her in public school because the giftedness and the fact that she's placid somewhat compensates for the difficulties. I'd put her in and sacrifice a year or two if I thought they would send her, but I don't really want her as a boarder.

 

I probably couldn't make $40,000. But we're currently paying Catholic school for two kids, and I might could make enough to make up the difference. Plan has been to send Anna to public school all along. Schools in Carbondale aren't as good, but in some ways that makes her eligible for more scholarships.

 

My husband isn't keen on the idea. His parents are in town and we are all very close. I just....He didn't see the interview. And he doesn't feel her difficulties the way I do.

[OneStepAtATime]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

[Terabith]

We are committed to at least another year, probably two, in Roanoke. We will see how sixth grade goes. She has functioned, although not thrived, but been good enough in 3rd-5th. I'm anticipating bigger issues with middle school, but we will see. If it's a crash and burn situation....well, we will see.

[PeterPan]

I didn't see autism on the list of what they take. It was conspicuously not on the list. Or I misread it. I actually looked for it, because I thought it was curious that they were taking NVLD but not autism. And it really begs the question of how much social thinking they do. It's probably there, but that list of what they don't want seemed to me to be trying to exclude the more all the way to autism kind of presentations. There just seemed to be a mix there they weren't wanting to deal with. And I get that. They were also excluding ID, where an autism school is going to be dealing with a lot of ID.

 

Yes, it indeed looked very special, and I think you're right to listen to your Mother Gut and want to advocate. 

 

I think if I were picking a time, it would be that age 11 marker they set for beginning the Arrowsmith program. Is she right on that line? It looked like a striking combination of so many things. As long as it's evidence-based and has a history of doing well with their students in that school, I think that would be the line where I'd be aggressive as a mother. But she's pretty close to that age, yes? I don't know. Not meaning to make a pickle there. 

 

He didn't see the interview? Did he visit the school? It sounds like there should be a 2nd visit. Sure it's better if Dad is onboard, but he can't get onboard without info.

 

What would be other ways to solve this problem for a year if you don't make a move on the school?

[PeterPan]

I also think it's the kind of thing where you could go, do Arrowsmith and work through their program for 2-3 years, then return. People don't necessarily go into those $$$$$$ schools and stay all the way. Some do, but I think 2-3 years and then launching to the next place is pretty common too.

[Terabith]

She's 12, so close to the line, but honestly, I'm not sure how sold I am on Arrowsmith in particular. There is some promising research but no proof yet that gains last. Not ruling it out but not definitely sold, either.

 

Most of their kids are high school aged. They take them at entering sixth but only have a handful of middle schoolers, so I don't feel pressure towards immediacy.

 

They do a TON of social thinking. It's not an autism school, and all their kids with it are high functioning.

 

Would definitely be future visit. But may be hard to get him on board for visit.