Jump to content


What's with the ads?

Photo

Barton advice


20 replies to this topic

What's with the ads?

#1 MistyMountain

MistyMountain

    Hive Mind Level 4 Worker: Builder Bee

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2708 posts

Posted 17 August 2017 - 10:02 PM

I finally got my curriculum approved and ordered. Barton level 1 and 2 is on its way and I will be starting it with my 1st grader. I got videos to watch in an email in the mean time. Do you have any advice about using it? I have a feeling this will be a learning curve for both of us and may be a little frustrating at first.

Edited by MistyMountain, 17 August 2017 - 10:03 PM.


#2 ZaraBellesMom

ZaraBellesMom

    Cruise Director

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 874 posts

Posted 17 August 2017 - 10:08 PM

Try to stay awake while watching the videos. If you can do that, you'll be just fine. 😉Can you practice a lesson on your spouse. It was easy once I got the hang of it, but it took a couple of lessons to really be comfortable with it.
  • TheReader, MistyMountain, bodiesmom and 2 others like this

#3 OneStepAtATime

OneStepAtATime

    Beekeeping Professor

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 32092 posts

Posted 17 August 2017 - 11:55 PM

Agree, try and stay awake during the videos. I love Barton but the videos are dull (for a reason but still...).

It helps to have the manual and the tiles in front of you to practice with as you watch the video but you could start watching now then practice once they come in. Hand gestures are important and will help a lot as the levels intensify. Make sure you learn them and your child learns them.

Practice with a partner if you can, at least for the first few lessons. It may seem deceptively easy after watching the video but in the moment you can get lost or accidentally miss a key component, at least until you are used to the system. The more comfortable and practiced you are, the easier it will be to go with the flow and adapt as needed. Plus, kids can smell a rookie a mile away. They need to believe you have a clue what you are doing. LOL

I suggest plan on keeping the lesson short for now. If your child realizes that lessons are not long they may be less likely to ball at doing them, plus this is a LOT for their brains. They can mentally wear out pretty quickly. Their brains are being forced to do something that is hard.

Keep a positive attitude if you can. Smile, make eye contact, be calm and reassuring and make sure to give them plenty of time to respond. Don't seem impatient and don't leap in if they don't immediately answer. They may need time to process and will need to come to trust that you will consistently give them that time.

Don't feel you have to complete a lesson in one sitting. Many kids cant. Sometimes it could take a week or more, maybe way more. Box checking won't work here. They need to master the material before moving on. Think of it as putting down the foundation. You don't want holes/cracks.

Maybe shoot for 20 minutes. Shorten that if they can't stay focused that long. Do your best to end on a high note.

Good luck.
  • frogger, TheReader, MistyMountain and 1 other like this

#4 MistyMountain

MistyMountain

    Hive Mind Level 4 Worker: Builder Bee

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2708 posts

Posted 18 August 2017 - 12:19 AM

You guys are right about the videos! I just started watching them and they are very dull and there are so many of them to watch. I am not sure who I can practice on.


  • OneStepAtATime likes this

#5 scoutingmom

scoutingmom

    Hive Mind Queen Bee

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1242 posts

Posted 18 August 2017 - 03:12 AM

I used a program to speed the videos up a bit

Sent from my SM-T530NU using Tapatalk
  • ZaraBellesMom and OneStepAtATime like this

#6 TheReader

TheReader

    Hive Mind Queen Bee

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2615 posts

Posted 18 August 2017 - 07:46 AM

I practiced on my DH; he was only semi willing, but I made it clear that his job to help us help our child was to willingly be a fake student so I could be sure I was doing this right. After that he settled down ;) If you have a spouse, partner, friend, anyone else that also cares about your child, see if they'll let you make them your fake student to practice on. 

 

And I can't second enough the time aspect....we work until my son starts showing signs of "I'm getting fatigued, but not yet frustrated" and quit on a high note. That can be 15 mins or 30, depending on the day & what part of the lesson we're on (ex: he has dysgraphia too, so the writing days we get less done). We've taken anywhere from 4 days to 9 days to finish a lesson. Don't let that discourage you, if that's the case with your 1st grader. 


  • ZaraBellesMom and OneStepAtATime like this

#7 OneStepAtATime

OneStepAtATime

    Beekeeping Professor

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 32092 posts

Posted 18 August 2017 - 10:21 AM

You guys are right about the videos! I just started watching them and they are very dull and there are so many of them to watch. I am not sure who I can practice on.

Pick anyone that cares about your kids.  You could even Skype sessions if you needed to.  Practice.  It will seem awkward, you may feel terribly embarrassed, but it will help with presentation and really getting this process smoothed out. My mom was able to help me.  DH was not willing but if I hadn't had Mom I probably would have insisted DH participate.  With a NT person they should go through things pretty quickly.  It won't be like with a non NT little kid.

 

That first level here is what I did:

 

1.  Watch the videos all the way through, in short segments so I didn't fall asleep.   I would wake up early, grab a cup of hot tea, play the video on my lap top and listen using headsets.  I did that every morning for about 30 minutes each morning with the TM in front of me.

 

2.  I then went back through with my Mom twice a week practicing the lessons with the tiles and the TM.

 

3.  Once I thought I was ready I set up a space (unfortunately not well right at first but I'll get to that in a minute), and let DD know we would be starting a new program the next day that was designed specifically to help her read (she had been in school for several years and was very demoralized and distrusting at this point but this gave her some hope that she would eventually be able to read).

 

4.  I got up early and skimmed through the video for that one lesson again, then mentally walked myself through the TM to be sure I was ready.  I called DD over and we started.  Some days were smoother than others but I honestly had not really embraced the program yet, or the hand gestures.  It led to some rocky moments and not a lot of buy-in from my daughter.  I also realized that NOT using the hand gestures I was actually talking too much trying to explain things and would start babbling a bit.  It undermined DD's ability to focus on the sounds.  Info overload.  I started over, made the hand gestures mandatory and committed us to really working through the program.  It helped tremendously and both our attitudes and functionality improved significantly.

 

5.  Once I got used to the system I no longer needed the videos or someone to practice with but walking myself mentally through the material prior to each lesson was a huge help.

 

 

Things I recommend:

  • Set up a dedicated space that isn't used for anything else if you can possibly swing it.  Some people even use a ventilated closet.  Keep ALL Barton stuff in that one space.  The paper and pencil, dry erase board, etc that you might need further down the road should be dedicated just to Barton and stays in this space.  Make sure the location is pretty quiet and you can keep others from messing with everything.
  • Try out different times of the day but once you find something that works try to stick to that same time of day every day.  This is your dedicated Barton time that does not keep getting pushed back because other things come up (and because subconsciously you are both tired and don't want to do it).  My daughter did better if we did Barton early in the morning then she was allowed to go outside and swing for a bit to relax her brain.  
    Any time we pushed it to later she was less focused, grumpy, wanted to rush through, etc.
  • Get the tutor password from Barton if you haven't already so you will have access to the tutor support materials available on line (just go on the website and under tutors there should be some sort of request button or something).
  • As you move through the program you will eventually start working on sight words.  The system asks that you only work on 3 sight words at a time in a very specific fashion.  It tracks reading and spelling of these sight words separately.  A child does not move on until a sight word is mastered, but this can be very asynchronous.  I created a separate notebook for the sightwords and kept all the lists in there.  With DD, she ended up moving through the lists very quickly so she ended up a couple of levels ahead of where she was with her reading/spelling lessons.  DS was much slower so he was actually a level behind the level he was using for lessons.  Having those lists in one location I didn't have to keep flipping through notebooks filled with lessons to find the correct sight word list.  I kept their sight word checklists in there, too.
  • Eventually, if it isn't too costly, I would recommend getting the Spelling Success card games.  They are great for review, for using in place of a lesson when you are both too tired to tackle a full Barton lesson, great for keeping skills up during a hiatus or when you are traveling, and are great as a fun way to wrap up a lesson on a good note.
  • Possibly start a Barton journal.  Just a few notes after each session. Keep track of things that are going smoothly or roughly on a particular day.  It may help you see patterns of areas to work on or areas that are strengths you can tap into.
  • On days when your child is grumpy and frustrated, keep the lessons super short and try really hard not to panic or take it personally.  This is a marathon, not a sprint.  You will have bad days and good days.  Hang in there through the bad days.
  • If you run into snags or have questions, there are many people here who can help and Barton has always responded when I needed help, too.  And if you need help setting up the notebook for Level 2, just ask.

Good luck and best wishes.  You will do fine.


Edited by OneStepAtATime, 18 August 2017 - 10:25 AM.

  • ZaraBellesMom likes this

#8 caedmyn

caedmyn

    Hive Mind Level 6 Worker: Scout Bee

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1113 posts

Posted 19 August 2017 - 08:40 PM

FWIW I never practiced and they went fine (though we had been using a reading program before that which had some similarities to Barton so I already had some experience with things like touch and say and finger spelling.
  • MistyMountain and OneStepAtATime like this

#9 MistyMountain

MistyMountain

    Hive Mind Level 4 Worker: Builder Bee

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2708 posts

Posted 30 August 2017 - 07:35 PM

Well it came and we used it about a week so far. She is taking a while to get the whole hand gesture thing and does not really like it. I had to explain many times to watch and what each gesture means. It is slow going so far and I needed all the extra practice so far. We have not even gotten through the 1st lesson yet. If this is hard and frustrating I guess she really needs it. Good thing she is at least kicking butt in math and picked up where we left off there despite a long break.
  • OhElizabeth, ElizabethB and OneStepAtATime like this

#10 OneStepAtATime

OneStepAtATime

    Beekeeping Professor

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 32092 posts

Posted 30 August 2017 - 07:59 PM

FWIW, there are some suggestions (maybe in the back of the TM?) for what to do with resistant kids that don't like the hand gestures.  It might help you.  Also there is a support group.  I think you can access it through the Barton site somehow.



#11 OhElizabeth

OhElizabeth

    Beekeeping Professor

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 30122 posts

Posted 31 August 2017 - 10:23 AM

Have you tried doing multiple short sessions a day. That's what I did with my ds at that stage.
  • ElizabethB and OneStepAtATime like this

#12 OneStepAtATime

OneStepAtATime

    Beekeeping Professor

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 32092 posts

Posted 31 August 2017 - 10:39 AM

Have you tried doing multiple short sessions a day. That's what I did with my ds at that stage.

Yes.  DD and DS both did better with short sessions, sometimes two a day, rather than one longer one.  We never really did more than two because they wanted to know they were done with Barton by a certain time each day (helped them to mentally unwind) but two short sessions with a physical run around break, a snack and some other less mentally taxing academic activity in between definitely helped.



#13 frogger

frogger

    Hive Mind Larvae

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1076 posts

Posted 02 September 2017 - 02:43 PM

Practice on a stuffed animal.  A real live adult won't respond any differently than you imagine them to.  :) Your child might respond differently though. :)

 


  • OhElizabeth likes this

#14 OhElizabeth

OhElizabeth

    Beekeeping Professor

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 30122 posts

Posted 02 September 2017 - 03:19 PM

I would have to practice on a LIVE animal for that to work. Actually, a live animal would be easier than teaching ds sometimes.  :lol:


  • frogger and MistyMountain like this

#15 frogger

frogger

    Hive Mind Larvae

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1076 posts

Posted 02 September 2017 - 06:47 PM

I can relate!
  • OhElizabeth and MistyMountain like this

#16 MistyMountain

MistyMountain

    Hive Mind Level 4 Worker: Builder Bee

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2708 posts

Posted 04 September 2017 - 07:48 PM

I would have to practice on a LIVE animal for that to work. Actually, a live animal would be easier than teaching ds sometimes. :lol:

I have been feeling like this after a lesson. Lol It has been seriously trying this past week with Barton. I have been thinking of those videos and the adult she is practicing on in those videos and how that is nothing like how dd responds at all.

This is trying my patience even more then I anticipated. It is rough going so far. She hates the hand gestures and making mistakes which she is doing a lot because of the hand gestures and it is hard to know what to do when they do not want to follow the directions of the gestures.

Edited by MistyMountain, 04 September 2017 - 07:51 PM.


#17 OhElizabeth

OhElizabeth

    Beekeeping Professor

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 30122 posts

Posted 04 September 2017 - 09:16 PM

You could take a week and work on behavior and calming strategies. You might need to use very short sessions with a timer. You might need to practice ahead strategies for what to do when she feels frustrated. You could identify WHY it's so hard for her to comply (doing guestures while spelling) and address the underlying deficits. She may have low working memory and need to work on it to be able to handle so many things at once.

 

You could also point out that if she continues and does NOT help you find strategies to get to where you two can work together with her having expected behavior, that she will have to go to a paid tutor, which result in no pizza, no christmas gifts, etc. etc. Like tell the truth, kwim? A tutor is astonishingly expensive and if she won't help you find ways that you can work successfully together, there will be consequences and loss of good things she's used to having.


Edited by OhElizabeth, 04 September 2017 - 09:17 PM.


#18 Chanley

Chanley

    Trying to Figure It All Out

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 213 posts

Posted 05 September 2017 - 08:04 AM

As far as hand gestures, I always remind students that we are re-training their brain and the gestures help with that. Also, for some kids, we make a goal that we are going to get to a certain place in the lesson then stop for a game. 

 

Also, there are no mistakes when I tutor, we have two modes; try again and let's move on. Some kids get so upset when they fail again and again. I usually ask them if they can ride a bike. If they can ride a bike, I ask them if they could do it the first time they tried. The answer is obviously no, so I draw a parallel between riding a bike and getting the Barton procedures down. We just try again until we are ready to move on. It will come. 

 

I am going to advise that when you feel like your student is getting upset and frustrated, stop and play a game. Make this fun. That is not always easy, I had a student last week who wanted to cry through half the lesson. I am 100% certain this kid has used that tactic to get out of work with other people, he is terribly cute. I am impervious to cute unless you are a puppy.  

 

At level 1 and 2, I usually play a lot of alphabet go fish. Instead of using letter names, we use sounds. The kids love it, often it is easy for them to win and it helps me learn which letter sounds they cannot immediately recall. 

 

Another idea, is to get out of the house to do the lessons. Can you go to the library? My kids always behaved better in public and would not lose their cool as quickly out of the house. 


  • OhElizabeth, MistyMountain and OneStepAtATime like this

#19 OneStepAtATime

OneStepAtATime

    Beekeeping Professor

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 32092 posts

Posted 05 September 2017 - 10:54 AM

I have been feeling like this after a lesson. Lol It has been seriously trying this past week with Barton. I have been thinking of those videos and the adult she is practicing on in those videos and how that is nothing like how dd responds at all.

This is trying my patience even more then I anticipated. It is rough going so far. She hates the hand gestures and making mistakes which she is doing a lot because of the hand gestures and it is hard to know what to do when they do not want to follow the directions of the gestures.

:grouphug:

 

Great suggestions up thread.  I only have a moment but I would suggest looking at the lesson and picking a very short, simple goal to achieve each day.  Explain to her what that goal is and that this is all you are going to try and achieve for the day.  Keep it simple.  Then try to incorporate a game to help achieve that goal.  

 

In all likelihood her brain is automatically going into fight or flight mode.  That makes it much harder to process what is expected of her.  It is going to take time to build trust.  If she senses she is failing your expectations that will make it even harder the next time.  Fight or flight will get triggered even more strongly.  

 

Maybe do a reset.  Give her a hug, be honest that this is new for you, too, and you are struggling a bit as well.  Tell her that each of you is going to get a reward after each lesson (and keep the lesson very, very short).  As soon as you have a success, make eye contact, smile, give a hug, cheer you both on, and end on a high note. Then do whatever "reward" seems appropriate.  Reading to her from a favorite book while you each sip from a favorite beverage.  Playing hide and seek with her for a bit then you gleaning 10 minutes to yourself.  Or maybe you share some M&Ms or some grapes or whatever works as a little reward.  Do the same thing the next day.

 

And try to determine exactly what is tripping her up about the hand gestures.  Are you moving too fast through the lesson?  Did you come on too strong at first and now she is feeling overwhelmed?  Is she struggling with remembering to link the hand gesture to the individual lesson requirements?  Could she have low processing speed/low working memory?  If the latter, then you may need to slow waaaaaaaayyyyyy down and keep segments VERY short until things become more automatic.  

 

FWIW, DD was super resistant to the hand gestures but she also has low processing speed and low working memory.  It was hard for her to keep things linked and straight in her head.  I got so frustrated and took it personally.   I felt like a failure.  I read about different ways to approach resistant teens (which could be applied to nearly any kid actually) and tried to figure out where the disconnect was.  We had to do a reset.  We took a break from Barton then started over, with VERY short sessions, focusing on slowly getting the hand gestures linked to the lesson requirements.  It was a tremendous help.  Now, those hand gestures are a great short cut for many things we do and keeps her from getting overwhelmed with too many words.


  • MistyMountain likes this

#20 MistyMountain

MistyMountain

    Hive Mind Level 4 Worker: Builder Bee

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2708 posts

Posted 05 September 2017 - 08:53 PM

She is struggling to link the hand gesture to the individual lesson requirement. She also does not seem to even want to stay looking at me to see the hand gestures. She seems to have a hard time putting all the steps together. I know if I gave her instructions she would get it but I know the hand gestures do have a purpose. I think she probably does have low working memory but it has never been tested. I am not sure on the processing speed. For sure on the fine motor aspects of writing that they test but she does not stall and drag out and take forever to answer or attend like my child I know has a slow processing speed. Today went a little better. Maybe when she gets used to the gestures and they will be used for a while it will get a little better. It is good to hear other kids get very upset too.

Edited by MistyMountain, 05 September 2017 - 08:57 PM.

  • OneStepAtATime likes this

#21 OneStepAtATime

OneStepAtATime

    Beekeeping Professor

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 32092 posts

Posted 05 September 2017 - 09:37 PM

She is struggling to link the hand gesture to the individual lesson requirement. She also does not seem to even want to stay looking at me to see the hand gestures. She seems to have a hard time putting all the steps together. I know if I gave her instructions she would get it but I know the hand gestures do have a purpose. I think she probably does have low working memory but it has never been tested. I am not sure on the processing speed. For sure on the fine motor aspects of writing that they test but she does not stall and drag out and take forever to answer or attend like my child I know has a slow processing speed. Today went a little better. Maybe when she gets used to the gestures and they will be used for a while it will get a little better. It is good to hear other kids get very upset too.

Well, the whole process can be frustrating for them at first.  And yes definitely DD definitely HATED those hand gestures when we first started.   She thought they were silly and stupid and not intuitive.  Once she finally got them down and it was automatic she loved them.  No more long explanations from Mom (which she also hated).  Now we have this great short cut.  

 

But when you first start with Level 1 it can take time to establish the gestures and the system.  Some kids breeze through.  Others need a lot more time and much shorter lessons before it starts really clicking.

 

Could she also have ADD?  I can't remember if you said...