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Best math for 3rd grader with DX'd dyslexia, ADHD, low processing speed?


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#1 dmmetler

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Posted 16 August 2017 - 11:26 AM

I've been asked to tutor a sweet 8 yr old who is a whiz at mental math, but struggles with math on paper, and, at 3rd grade, can't get by so easily with just doing it mentally. He has an IEP that calls for scribing at school, but is starting to get frustrated with trying to explain his thinking to a teacher's aide to write for him. The school (private) is amenable to substituting something for the Saxon math they do-which is simply too much for him to do without scribing, so the ideal would be something where I could work with him once or twice a week and he could do it at school in the meantime, with the classroom aide to assist, since his IEP calls for it. He is getting reading tutoring as well, but not from me.

#2 OneStepAtATime

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Posted 16 August 2017 - 12:40 PM

Beast Academy?

#3 Heathermomster

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Posted 16 August 2017 - 02:18 PM

This is ironic, but all the descriptors apply and DS used Saxon for 3rd grade.  My preference is Singapore, but I cannot imagine how that would fly in your particular situation. 


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#4 okbud

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Posted 16 August 2017 - 02:58 PM

Does it have to be secular? My add child who can do mental math way ahead does cle for "written math," which I insist upon him doing. We tried rays, strayer Upton, Singapore, (what's the one that's like Singapore but with all the teacher instructions??) and beast to try to do something secular... Nein. Cle is what works to get him to do what he thinks is tedious.

Onestepatatime is THE person to talk to, if CLE can be an option on the table for this little one.

Good luck!
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#5 dmmetler

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Posted 16 August 2017 - 03:42 PM

It's a parochial school, so CLE might fly-it's not the same flavor of Christian, but I'm not tied to 100% Secular, either.

I think he'd like the BA problems and monsters-but would be unable to read the books himself. His reading is getting better, but there's a reason why he has paraprofessional support in his IEP.
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#6 OhElizabeth

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Posted 16 August 2017 - 05:04 PM

If the *only* issue is getting it out (not a poor fit with instruction), it might be easier to tackle the getting it out. That's working memory, etc. Is he on meds for the ADHD? That should help the processing speed a little.

 

Also, I haven't done it yet, but what about some tech? Scan the pages, touch screen laptop, numerical entry, and app...

 



#7 dmmetler

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Posted 16 August 2017 - 05:07 PM

Honestly, it's also too much repetition and tedium for this kid. He's good at math-just not at the reading and writing involved with math, and Saxon grade 3 is just plain a lot.
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#8 OhElizabeth

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Posted 16 August 2017 - 05:12 PM

Have you looked through the Cathy Duffy top recs? Sounds like you're wanting something that is mastery. 

 

Don't laugh, but my ds is the same age and I'm getting ready to order the numbers set from Lakeshore Learning. I had wanted to a year or two ago and now I'm finally gonna get it done with this amazing 20% off thing they're running on the whole store. I got some modest sized whiteboards from Target (because I'm a whiteboard fiend, haha), and my plan is to do multi-digit math on the whiteboards with moveable numbers.

 

Classroom Magnetic Numbers & Operations Kit at Lakeshore Learning

 



#9 dmmetler

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Posted 16 August 2017 - 06:09 PM

Hmmm...That magnet kit, along a worktext, might work well...I still want something more streamlined than Saxon.

Really,what would be ideal would be something like Keys to Algebra, only for 3rd grade math.

#10 OhElizabeth

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Posted 16 August 2017 - 06:15 PM

I'm using with ds a combination of grade leveled ebook printable workbooks to go along with Ronit Bird. I've gone through a bunch of the major publishers (TeacherCreated, Evan Moor, Scholastic, Carson Dellosa), and I use a mix of things. Actually, we tend to get through a lot, because he's pretty fast.

 

I didn't mention it because none of it is particularly a grade leveled text. It's all leveled. So right now he's doing a couple Using the Standards books by Instructional Fair, which I think was under Carson Dellosa. They're keyed to common core. I've used Daily Warm-ups and Daily Warm-ups Problem Solving from TCR. I go through one publisher, exhaust them, then use the next. Ds progresses pretty slowly and benefits from seeing things lots of ways. A lot of the worksheets have only a dab of writing, and some even have multiple choice responses. 

 

So in theory they could have that effect you're talking about, with leveled, topical workbooks that together would create an appropriate progression. I had a series from TCR we used that included money, algebra, time, measurement, etc. The Using the Standards series does too. I also throw in workbooks of brain teasers and more creative problem solving. 

 

So you could get there eclectically by selecting from a publisher. I just hesitate to say yeah, it's cohesive curriculum. I do it because it's really what fits his situation. It allows us to give him only one page at a time so he doesn't get overwhelmed.


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#11 Ivey

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Posted 16 August 2017 - 06:17 PM

We haven't used the elementary levels, but my first thought was Math-U-See. There is one teaching day for each topic, and then 4-5 days of practice. There isn't much reading required, lots of white space, and not nearly as much repetition as something like Saxon. My ASD/dyslexic/low processing speed kid had a lot of success with MUS for high school math. 


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#12 OhElizabeth

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Posted 16 August 2017 - 08:37 PM

Search Our Catalog | Carson-Dellosa Publishing  These are the Using the Standards workbooks I mentioned. They're interesting, with thoughtful questions.

 

Daily Warmups Math Search Results | Teacher Created Resources  Here are the Daily Warm-Ups math and problem solving math books. I like them a LOT. My ds has SLD Reading as well and refuses almost all reading, so for me to sneak in a little bit in a word problem where it's just a sentence is really slick. And maybe that doesn't work for the student you're talking about, but for my ds it was a good stretch.

 

Brain Teasers Search Results | Teacher Created Resources  TCR has more books like this, but I like throwing stuff like this in his math packets. I can't remember which ones we used. I got several different books and I just rotated them. So if he did 2 pages of grunt work, he got a page of something preferred like that. Or I would give him the Daily Warm-Ups Problem Solving a grade ahead, because it was interesting to him that way. 

 

Even that's kind of slick, because it lets you mix levels of things to keep it interesting. 



#13 OneStepAtATime

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 01:14 AM

O.k. let me make sure I am understanding your parameters.  I only skimmed before when I suggested Beast Academy because I was in a hurry.  Sorry.  In this situation Beast might work great as a supplement during tutoring sessions if you are reading and scribing for him and he might very much welcome the approach but it would be a poor fit in the classroom situation you describe.

 

Anyway, as I understand it, this child has multiple diagnoses that are being sorted out.  He is good at mental math but reading and writing are problematic.  He is getting reading tutoring from someone else and has an IEP that includes scribing but needs to be able to function without always relying on the person in the classroom to scribe for him.  You may be tutoring him one or possibly two times per week.  The rest of the time he must be able to function in the classroom.  Saxon requires way too much writing but the school is willing to substitute something else.

 

If I have the above correct, I could see a few different paths but probably the most likely to actually get done in the classroom setting would be switching to CLE, as mentioned up thread.  It follows a predictable pattern that could be adjusted for the school schedule, the school itself would probably not find it too difficult to adapt, it is workbook based so no copying from a textbook which would reduce handwriting requirements, explanations are usually pretty short and written directly to the student but you could review with him ahead of time so reading demands would be far less, the system is flexible if you go about it the right way, and the TM has a copy of each page of the WB right in the TM so you and the teacher would be on the same page if you both had copies.  How I would do it:

 

1.  Give him the placement test for CLE (Free to download.  Look under Diagnostic tools.  Scribe for him.)  Then make a recommendation for which level to start with (first light unit will be entirely review of previous levels so maybe you could use that to solidify any gaps from lack of exposure in areas you think he would do well in otherwise).

2.  Two Teacher's Manuals.  You would have one and the school would have one.

3.  Depending on whether whoever is footing the bill is willing to cover this added cost, I'd get two CLE math reference charts (and I'm hoping the school will allow him to have the CLE reference chart).  He uses one that stays with you and one he keeps at school.  And if he is doing some of this work at home then maybe the one at school can be the one that also comes home every day.  Or he has a third one at home.

4.  CLE has a very specific, very targeted way of doing math fact review.  It is not like normal math fact flash card review.  I think it would be better if you would have the CLE flashcard set OR it would be kept at home and his mom or dad could do the very short math fact flash card warm up each morning before he heads to school.  The assignment for which one to use each day is in the workbook so a list would need to be written out for the parent to refer to.  The parent would need to know it is not necessary or recommended to do more than JUST the specifically targeted review assigned for the day.  (I honestly hated flash cards.  They never helped my LD kids.  The exception is the CLE flash cards.  Their flash card system is well done, IMHO, and can be quite helpful to many. ) It might help not only his math fact retention but his spirits to know some things are already done when he opens his WB each day, plus he probably wouldn't have time in class anyway.

5.  Probably eliminate the speed drills at the end.  I would either see if the teacher is willing to dump these altogether or eliminate the time factor.  With my own kids they were timed, but only to try and beat their own previous time, not to see how far they could get in 1 minute.  DS is dysgraphic and could NOT write quickly enough to get hardly anything done in a minute.  Scribing is an option but eliminating the time requirement could work o.k. too.  Honestly, though, this section may do more harm than good right now.  I'd see if it can simply be ignored for now.  

6.  If you can tutor him twice a week, preferably the second session of the week would be prepping him for the following week.  That would be ideal, IMHO, so he would start the week already prepared for the first lessons of the week.  

7.  Assuming you can tutor him twice a week, with the first session being PRIOR to the start of the week, you could teach him the new material from the first two lessons and have him work with you through the new material until he seems comfortable.  New material is clearly delineated.  Read through the instructions together for both lessons, work through the TM board work together, then maybe even work through a couple of the new material problems in the workbook together.  Then he would start the week already familiar with the problems in the new section and wouldn't have as many to have to write on his own.

8.  You say he really grasps mental math quickly but hates to write things down (dysgraphia).  There isn't that much writing compared to some programs since there is no copying of the problem.  Just write directly in the workbook (called a Light Unit).  

9.  Would the school let you adjust assignments?  If they would let you adjust the length of the lessons, you could cross out some of the review problems in each lesson.  Seriously.  As long as he is understanding the older material, it all gets reviewed a LOT.  Many kids don't need that much review.  Cross out problems from older material that he is solid on.  It will definitely get reviewed again soon.  Have him bring his workbook to each session so you can adjust things (if allowed).    Or, since there is a danger it will get damaged or lost, maybe write up a list of the problems that should be crossed out to give to his teacher?  Would you have any ability to be in direct communication with the teacher and work on this collaboratively? At least with my kids the added bonus was that they felt good about a shorter lesson and it motivated them to work harder on the remaining problems.

10.  If you could tutor him on Tuesday as the first session of the week, you could review the new material for Wednesday and Thursday.  The second tutoring session would be the one reviewing the lessons for Monday and Tuesday of the next week.  You could then also review the review problems in his workbook and cross out review that you don't think will be necessary (if the school would allow this) or at least do some ahead of time so he has less work to do during class time. 

11.  Usually Fridays are quizzes or tests so see what the school schedule is and if the CLE workbook paces out with the school schedule.  If not, look ahead and offer recommended adjustments as needed.

 

Been typing on the fly and it is nearly 1:15am.  I hope what I said made some sense.  I'll check back later when I have a moment.  Good luck.


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#14 OhElizabeth

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 08:13 AM

My ADHD kid found CLE drudgery. Definitely get a free light unit to try before making that suggestion to the school. It's spiral, and you were saying he's already burnt out on Saxon. BJU, MUS, any traditional mastery program would get you away from that. 

 

BJU is consistent and dependable, and it's mastery. It's also colorful, engaging, and addresses all the learning modalities. So if you have a social/narrative child, it's got stories. etc. It's what I finally switched my dd to after our years of RightStart. It took us a while to find a good fit. 

 

The ps system has gone down the rabbit hole with their math and the CC stuff. At the high school level you can find sensible ps texts, but not sure about elementary.

 

And you know maybe he'll love CLE. Just saying I'd try a sample first. Even just doing the pretests for the programs gives you a good feel of how they roll and what they emphasize. With my ds, I try to do math that works to his strengths. He's never going to be strong at computation, so we don't do pages of it. He's actually surprisingly good at word problems, so we do a LOT of those. Anything where he can think, visualize, wrap his brain around it, it's going to be a strength for him. To me, that's doing math. The rest is just stuff a calculator can do. But he also has math SLD, so he's really off the beaten path. 



#15 OneStepAtATime

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 11:43 AM

My ADHD kid found CLE drudgery. Definitely get a free light unit to try before making that suggestion to the school. It's spiral, and you were saying he's already burnt out on Saxon. BJU, MUS, any traditional mastery program would get you away from that. 

 

BJU is consistent and dependable, and it's mastery. It's also colorful, engaging, and addresses all the learning modalities. So if you have a social/narrative child, it's got stories. etc. It's what I finally switched my dd to after our years of RightStart. It took us a while to find a good fit. 

 

The ps system has gone down the rabbit hole with their math and the CC stuff. At the high school level you can find sensible ps texts, but not sure about elementary.

 

And you know maybe he'll love CLE. Just saying I'd try a sample first. Even just doing the pretests for the programs gives you a good feel of how they roll and what they emphasize. With my ds, I try to do math that works to his strengths. He's never going to be strong at computation, so we don't do pages of it. He's actually surprisingly good at word problems, so we do a LOT of those. Anything where he can think, visualize, wrap his brain around it, it's going to be a strength for him. To me, that's doing math. The rest is just stuff a calculator can do. But he also has math SLD, so he's really off the beaten path. 

My concern is how much he can do at school.  I think OP could probably work with him using a more mastery based program during tutoring (if that ends up being a good fit) and she could easily add in some work with the CLE stuff on the side so during class he could do those lessons more independently.   Hopefully also she would be allowed to cross out unnecessary review so in class he is only doing needed problems and without so much writing.

 

I don't know that the school is going to be much help at all in implementing something radically different from Saxon.  That is why I originally was suggesting Beast but then realized he needs to work fairly independently in class.  If the OP and the School could work collaboratively, then she could cut out a lot of the review in CLE so there wouldn't be so much writing but he would still have problems he could be doing in class while his classmates are also working.  In other words, he could have something he could theoretically successfully navigate at school and she could work with him during tutoring with something that is more like what you describe.

 

But maybe the school would be very able to work with him on something very different from what the other kids are using.

 

I agree, try out a light unit but the review light unit isn't all that good a representation of the program, IMHO.  Its o.k. but I'd rather do a normal unit before making the call. 

 

Its tough when you have a school that may or may not be able to give him much help, then a tutor meeting maybe once or twice a week, plus parental involvement.  Hard to know how the three sides can work together to provide him with what he needs.  I suspect it will take a bit of time to get a good balance/ebb/flow going.



#16 dmmetler

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 12:15 PM

That's the size of it-it's a nice little parochial school with little special ed support. The parents got him assessed through the school district, and the school district is providing "consultation and support services" (largely because if you scribe for him and read the test, he scores at or above grade level. If you make him read for himself on a multiple choice test, he's on grade level in math, with most missed problems being word problems, but below grade level on reading). He is seeing a reading tutor at school (provided by the district), but nothing for math, and it's starting to be a behavioral issue-he just plain finds Saxon frustrating at this point. I'll give the school a lot of credit in that they recognized the curriculum was an issue instead of blaming the kid, and suggested the parents find something else, but they also are putting it on the parents.

 

I think I'll be able to adjust assignments, but he needs something to do at school-and, frankly, something the the teacher can grade to put a grade on the report card. She's already uncomfortable with the amount of help he's getting. I think she thinks that he's smart enough he shouldn't need it :(.

 

I'll probably be seeing him Monday and Wednesday. I got the job because I was able to help him with his assignment when mom was struggling to scribe for him-his sister is on DD's cheer team.

 

 

 

 

 


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#17 OhElizabeth

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 12:18 PM

Does the school actually do OG? It sounds like he needs reading intervention more than math, sigh.


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#18 caedmyn

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 12:55 PM

I don't know if this would work in that setting, and it doesn't come with tests, and would only work for one year because it's a 1st-3rd program....but FWIW my 3rd grader with ADHD and dyslexia will be using the last 2 books in the Miquon series this year.  It's certainly very different than Saxon.  Perhaps you could write a few tests for it, or maybe there's some out there somewhere already.  There are NO instructions in the books but a separate book does give suggestions on how to do the worksheets, and I can almost always figure it out just by looking at the pages.  It's pretty easy to use.

 

Or what about Math Mammoth?  If you could cross off half the problems that might work.  It is designed to be used in a classroom from what I understand but has instructions written to the student...someone would probably need to read him the instructions.

 

Is it Saxon 3 with the one page to do at school and one to take home that he's doing and getting bogged down with?  If it is I can't imagine CLE would be an improvement because it's going to be more pages per day than Saxon 3, though less facts practice overall.  Maybe he could just do one page of Saxon 3 (assuming that's what he's using) and do half at school and half at home?  If he's math-y I would that he'd probably be fine without all the extra review Saxon 1-3 includes.  Maybe he could do Xtramath at home instead of the facts practice also.


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#19 OneStepAtATime

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 01:03 PM

There might be something else that would work better.  CLE is adjustable and honestly I found it a much better fit than Saxon for my kids (dyslexic and dysgraphic) (and the kids liked the pages and the variety of problems waaaaaayyyyyy better) but it is similar so I thought the teacher could wrap their brain around it.  Someone would need to cut out some or a lot of the review, though.  And I really think the drills in the back would need to be dumped.  But this situation is so awkward.  I don't know.  I wish you the best in trying and hope he can find a successful path forward.

 

Good luck.



#20 dmmetler

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 05:29 PM

I'm not sure what he gets for reading, only that he gets tutoring at school as part of his IEP. The local district here does do OG, so hopefully he has a trained tutor there, but the district is also notorious for not wanting to work with private schools (or homeschoolers) and doing the absolute minimum.

#21 MistyMountain

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 09:57 PM

Yea Saxon did not work for that profile over here. It was the worse fit ever. I am finding more success with Signapore and using Education Unboxed and C-rods to explain concepts. I think scribing for some of the math helps or writing the problems on a white board bigger with more space when they do write or using graph paper with 1cm cubes.
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