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High school level English and history taken in 8th


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When students take high school level math and science and foreign language in 8th grade, they are often included on the high school transcript.  Yet, I've read here repeatedly that people do not put high school level literature or history there when they are taken in 8th grade.  Why is that?

Edited by klmama
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California only considers high school math and foreign languages courses taken in 7th and 8th grade as fulfilling part of high school graduation requirements. They don't count Science courses. Literature and History courses are very subjective. SAT subject test, AP exams and CLEP exams aside, how does one define where middle school literature or history ends and high school literature or history starts.

For example, my local public high schools has English Literature, English Literature (Honors) and AP English Literature and Composition. They also have British Literature and American Literature classes. My current 8th grader is thinking of B&M high school. Other than subjects that he already has AP exam scores for, he will be taking placement tests.

 

For math, UC(California) stated they want to see geometry on the transcript and geometry is often taken in 8th grade locally. For foreign languages, many guidance counselors say its included for continuity rather than essential as many of their students took the AP exam for their foreign language in high school to fulfil the LOTE (language other than English) requirement.

 

There are three AP exams for history for public and private high school students and Dual Enrollment options for homeschoolers. Is there a need to include Literature and History courses from middle school years unless they were dual enrollment courses? I do understand including test scores in the high school transcript if your child took the SAT/AP/CLEP subject exams in middle school.

 

ETA:

I find it hard to compare the rigor of Literature offerings in high school unless the school's Literature class feels really substandard during open house sessions. Our expectations are high but quality of instruction can always be higher.

Edited by Arcadia
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That's an interesting question, and while I generally agree with that way of thinking, it's hard to explain why.  I guess math, foreign language, and science are each very specific and a level of its own.  Whereas subjects like literature and history are not necessarily level-dependent, and don't necessarily depend on a progression, or on a prior subject in order to understand it.

 

I'll be interested in hearing how others describe it.

 

 

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I would guess bc they are subjective and are not sequential. If alg 1 is taken in middle school, it is confirmed by the fact that alg 2 is taken, etc.

 

ETA: I must have been typing when J-rap posted, but those are my thoughts.

 

I will share how I included the info, though. My Dd read heavy epic poetry in 7th and 8th (works like Paradise Lost and The Divine Comedy). I worked her love of poetry into my counselor letter and described how it started in 7th grade. (I'm trying to rember how I incorporated it. I know I included how excited she was when we were at at antique mall and she found an 1800s ed of Marmion and she bought it with her own money.)

Edited by 8FillTheHeart
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Our ps district offers high school classes in English, science, math, and foreign language to eligible 8th graders.  My older sons took those classes and they counted as high school credit so I am doing the same with my dd who is homeschooled.  We used high school level curriculum for English (Oak Meadow) and science (Physical Science with Conceptual Academy).  

 

 

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DS did high school level classes with his sister last year, but I'm not going to put them on his transcript.  One of his textbooks is used as an AP textbook in ps, but I'm still not going to put it on his transcript.  The only reason - they are racking up so many credits, that I don't need to include them.  But, if he did need the credits, I would add them on.  The public schools here add credits from high school courses taken in middle school onto their transcripts.  

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i think there is some good reasoning to it, maybe...maybe not....glad we stepped out of the entire issue by attending early community college :)

We are looking at dual enrollment for science and they don't take high school chemistry at face value either. To skip the chemistry placement exam, my oldest would need to get the AP Chemistry score they want. Of course he can take the placement exam if he decide not to go the AP Chemistry exam route, I am just saying even a high school chemistry pass on a public/private school transcript doesn't get the student out of placement tests.

 

"Note: In general, high school Chemistry courses DO NOT meet the prerequisites, although Chemistry AP scores of 4 or higher will be considered."

 

Same goes for math placement tests. They'll take his ap calculus exam score in lieu of him taking the math placement test. Many want a score of 4 or 5.

 

Foreign languages has placement tests and instructors discretion so it's not a straight up acceptance of whatever is in the transcript either.

 

You probably know about the CC placement tests already, just saying to the OP that it is not as simple as something being on the high school transcript.

 

ETA:

There is placement tests for English courses too except for one entry/introductory level course which any enrolled student can take.

Edited by Arcadia
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I think it's harder to really achieve rhetoric-level thought-processing for English and History in junior high--and that in a classroom situation, it's harder to prove you had kids who were able to make high-level connections and had the life experience and language skills and emotional maturity to process and express the kinds of insights one hopes for from a high school level course. That's not to say that there are not exceptional junior high students. From a school/classroom standpoint, I think it has to do with assessment--it's easier to test math and science and "prove" the student can do these courses at a high school level. It's easier to draw a line somewhere. How do you draw a line with English and History, and say that student X is processing the ideas at a high enough level to be considered high school, while student Y isn't quite there yet? 

 

 

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What if the middle school student took English courses from an online provider and those courses were for high school students? I'm not sure I would count the two high school English courses my dd took while in middle school because I don't want to graduate her early.

Edited by Jewels
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Fwiw, I included middle school English classes on my middle kiddo's transcript because he had studied novels that are typically covered in high school, and I wanted to communicate that to the adcoms.  By looking at the transcript, it was apparent that these classes were taken prior to 9th grade, and he had more than 4 English credits from 9th-12th grade as well. 

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As MerryAtHope said above, it's very difficult to show advancing levels/progress with English, Social Studies, Fine Arts, and Electives the way you can with Math, Science, and Foreign Language.

 

Additionally, some universities only accept certain credits towards admission that were accomplished in middle school -- typically Math (Algebra 1 and above), Science (Biology and above), and Foreign Language (high school level, and the student continues to complete higher levels of the language in high school).

 

And some universities only accept/look at credits earned in the 4 years prior to admission. So if you're counting on an English or Social Studies (typically American History) credit taken in 8th grade to meet admission requirements, and the university doesn't accept it, you're going to have to scramble to fill a credit halfway through 12th grade.

 

re: English credits

It can look like "coasting" if bringing up one of the 4 required English credits from 8th grade, and then having no English credit in 12th grade.

 

Also, most students continue to progress in analysis and writing abilities throughout the high school years, so a high school credit done in 12th grade is naturally richer, meatier, more rigorous than one done in 9th grade, and esp. compared if done in middle school (setting aside the small amount of unusually gifted/accelerated students like 8FillTheHeart's DD mentioned in her post above). JMO, but I would think most families would want to have the student's strongest credits and abilities reflected in the transcript, rather than the older/weaker credits.

 

Note that if the credit is started in 8th grade and completed in 9th grade, or is completed in the summer between 8th and 9th grade, there is no trouble about counting it on the transcript with the 9th grade year credits.

 

As snowbeltmom mentioned, you might also consider going ahead and "bringing up" that English or History credit from 8th grade, but as an Elective credit, and in a special section for "high school credits completed prior to 9th grade". And then go ahead in grades 9-12 and do the required amount of English or History credits to ensure the student meets college admission requirements (4 English credits and 2-4 credits Social Studies).

 

Also, if you have a student who is "on the bubble" and you won't know until later in high school whether or not 8th grade was really 8th or 9th -- or you have a student who will potentially graduate a year early, so 8th grade counts as 9th grade -- just keep good records so that it is easy to count the whole of 8th grade as 9th grade.

 

BEST of luck as you wear your administrator hat for homeschooling high school! Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited by Lori D.
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What if the middle school student took English courses from an online provider and those courses were for high school students? I'm not sure I would count the two high school English courses my dd took while in middle school because I don't want to graduate her early.

 

Just because DD has extra credits in English (or other subject area) doesn't mean you have to graduate her early. She just may end up with a very rigorous transcript at high school graduation, with 28-30 or more very solid credits. Not a bad thing! ;)

 

Have a section on your transcript for "high school courses completed prior to 9th grade". Those can count towards Electives and show DD's interests and high level of work, and then you can go ahead and complete 4 credits of English during grades 9-12 to make sure you've fulfilled the requirements for high school graduation/college admission in a way that will be absolutely unquestionable.

 

You also might consider having your student do AP English in high school, as working at a high school level for 2 classes in middle school would be good prep for working at a more advanced level of English in high school. :)

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What if the middle school student took English courses from an online provider and those courses were for high school students? I'm not sure I would count the two high school English courses my dd took while in middle school because I don't want to graduate her early.

Credit hrs do not have to have anything to do with graduation. Even without counting middle school English courses, my dd had more than 4 English credits. She took more than 1 English course per yr. I had zero qualms counting them as different courses due to the extensive reading lists and research involved. No school had a problem with her credits.

 

That said, I still wouldn't include middle school English as high school credit simply bc I have never seen a state system allow it and I don't want to be so outside th norm with how credits are awarded.

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I guess I was only thinking of counting the hs credits earned in middle school for the purpose of meeting graduation requirements but I don't plan on reporting them.  

 

I could have counted 8th as 9th but I would rather DE my dd for 11th & 12th.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Jewels
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Thanks for the discussion, everyone!  I'm not leaning one way or the other at this point, as I am sure my youngest will have all of the required credits and more, even without counting any high school level work done in middle school.  I was simply curious as to why people here don't seem to count English and history.  Thanks for sharing your opinions!

 

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When students take high school level math and science and foreign language in 8th grade, they are often included on the high school transcript. Yet, I've read here repeatedly that people do not put high school level literature or history there when they are taken in 8th grade. Why is that?

public schools do put it on the transcript. A lot of people on these boards go way above and beyond. But for me, in my home, yes, I want to go above and beyond. But for that little piece of paper (virtual paper) I submit to colleges, I don't care. I will put down what they want to see. I am not going to get legalistic about it.
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