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No man's land? (in-state tuition)


DawnM
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We are most likely moving next summer (2018).  Our middle child will be moving with us, even though he will be a College Freshman.  He won't qualify for in-state tuition in CA, and we thought maybe he could just do online classes in-state for NC.  And I suppose if we didn't tell them, he could get away with it (we aren't planning to cheat the system), but this is just killing me......we will have paid NC taxes for 12 years and before that we paid CA taxes for 20 years (well, 10 of those married and I lived there and worked for 10 years prior to that.)  We never too advantage of in-state tuition as our kids were little.

 

So, are we really in no-man's land?  We will pay out of state no matter where we have him take classes?  We belong nowhere?  Anyone know?

 

(and yes, I am asking here before making calls.  I hate calling with a passion and inevitably get either a grouchy person or a "I think" answer, which tells me nothing.)

 

Thanks,

 

Dawn

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http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/HTML/BySection/Chapter_116/GS_116-143.1.html

 

 

"(i)         A person who, having acquired bona fide legal residence in North Carolina, has been classified as a resident for tuition purposes but who, while enrolled in an institution of higher education, loses North Carolina legal residence, shall continue to enjoy the in-State tuition rate for a statutory grace period. This grace period shall be measured from the date on which the culminating circumstances arose that caused loss of legal residence and shall continue for 12 months; provided, that a resident's marriage to a person domiciled outside of North Carolina shall not be deemed a culminating circumstance even when said resident's spouse continues to be domiciled outside of North Carolina; and provided, further, that if the 12-month period ends during a semester or academic term in which such a former resident is enrolled at an institution of higher education, such grace period shall extend, in addition, to the end of that semester or academic term."

 

 

If I interpret the legalese correctly, he is considered in state for a year following your move.

Edited by regentrude
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I would contact individual schools. We have now moved twice while our kids have been in school. Both times when we contacted the schools, they let them maintain in-state status through graduation. Both started their freshman yr before we moved. It might be worth delaying your major move until after August if the schools will do the same.

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http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/HTML/BySection/Chapter_116/GS_116-143.1.html

 

 

"(i)         A person who, having acquired bona fide legal residence in North Carolina, has been classified as a resident for tuition purposes but who, while enrolled in an institution of higher education, loses North Carolina legal residence, shall continue to enjoy the in-State tuition rate for a statutory grace period. This grace period shall be measured from the date on which the culminating circumstances arose that caused loss of legal residence and shall continue for 12 months; provided, that a resident's marriage to a person domiciled outside of North Carolina shall not be deemed a culminating circumstance even when said resident's spouse continues to be domiciled outside of North Carolina; and provided, further, that if the 12-month period ends during a semester or academic term in which such a former resident is enrolled at an institution of higher education, such grace period shall extend, in addition, to the end of that semester or academic term."

 

 

If I interpret the legalese correctly, he is considered in state for a year following your move.

Will he already be enrolled when you make the move?   From this wording it sounds as if he would need to be actually enrolled before you move. 

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I would contact individual schools. We have now moved twice while our kids have been in school. Both times when we contacted the schools, they let them maintain in-state status through graduation. Both started their freshman yr before we moved. It might be worth delaying your major move until after August if the schools will do the same.

 

We can't delay.  The rest of us need to get into jobs/school.  

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Will he already be enrolled when you make the move?   From this wording it sounds as if he would need to be actually enrolled before you move. 

 

Oh maybe I misunderstood. I read "will be a freshman" as "rising freshman", not "will be freshman in a year". Bummer.

 

Can he graduate early and enter college in January?

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Oh maybe I misunderstood. I read "will be a freshman" as "rising freshman", not "will be freshman in a year". Bummer.

 

Can he graduate early and enter college in January?

 

No.

 

I have actually tried to get him to NOT go to our local high school next year and be *technically* homeschooled again and attend the CC as a homeschooler (free!) but he really wants a public high school senior year with his friends.  We are willing to let him do that.

 

It's ok, if we have to just suck it up one year we will.

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Would enrolling in a summer class next summer in North Carolina be a possibility?  

 

Is it possible for you to move to California, but for him to not move?  Doe he have a drivers license, car registration, voters registration in North Carolina?  Would there be North Carolina address he can use and maintain residency even though you are not?

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We can't delay.  The rest of us need to get into jobs/school.  

 

Some states allow for in-state status if you graduate from high school in the state.  Does NC have that provision?  

 

If not, it sounds like he may not be eligible for in-state status anywhere.  That is a rough place to be.  

 

 

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Would enrolling in a summer class next summer in North Carolina be a possibility?  

 

Is it possible for you to move to California, but for him to not move?  Doe he have a drivers license, car registration, voters registration in North Carolina?  Would there be North Carolina address he can use and maintain residency even though you are not?

 

Out of state CA tuition with him living at home is cheaper than in state NC tuition with l giving on campus.  But he doesn't want to stay on his own.  

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Do you know if he graduates from NC high school and then begins taking classes with a NC university if he will jeopardize his California residency for in-state tuition the following year?  

 

I am not sure how CA would know if he paid in or out of state tuition to the NC community college???  And as long as he shows a CA DL and mortgage statement a year prior, I don't think it would be an issue, but I have no idea.

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I am not sure how CA would know if he paid in or out of state tuition to the NC community college???  And as long as he shows a CA DL and mortgage statement a year prior, I don't think it would be an issue, but I have no idea.

If he has a NC high school diploma and then has transcripts from the community college, there might be an argument that he has not been fully in CA for the year.  That is an issue if you are over 18 and trying to establish residency in a place other than where your parents reside.  If you are over 18 and your parents move to California, I am not sure if their fully establishing residency for 12 months then transfers to the over 18 year old child.  

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If he has a NC high school diploma and then has transcripts from the community college, there might be an argument that he has not been fully in CA for the year.  That is an issue if you are over 18 and trying to establish residency in a place other than where your parents reside.  If you are over 18 and your parents move to California, I am not sure if their fully establishing residency for 12 months then transfers to the over 18 year old child.

 

 

 

This is the first thing you need answered by the schools of interest in CA. If his residency in CA is completely dependent on the parents, then he could take online classes from a NC school as an in-state student.

 

 quote name="jdahlquist" post="7745015" timestamp="1502840199"]Would enrolling in a summer class next summer in North Carolina be a possibility?  

f

We can't delay.  The rest of us need to get into jobs/school.

 

If him taking online classes at a NC school will not impact his eventual CA residency, he could take an online class in the summer (or even a Maymester if there is such a thing at the school,) you could move as soon as he starts his class. I guess you could probably start driving to CA before he started as long as you did not complete the move until after he started. As long as he starts college before you finish the move/establish residency in CA, he will qualify for 12 months of in-state tuition.

 

Fingers crossed that it works out for you.

 

Would he want to take a gap year? Then he could start school in CA as an in-state resident.

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Having gone to college in CA, it may be a little tricky.

 

Some of it will depend on the school, but generally you have to have lived there for more than a year before the start of school (366 days.)

 

Some schools will not allow you to become an "in state" student if you came in as out of state. Because CA tuition is so low, they have a lot of people trying to claim residency to get lower rates.

 

Check with the school(s) he is looking at.

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Having gone to college in CA, it may be a little tricky.

 

Some of it will depend on the school, but generally you have to have lived there for more than a year before the start of school (366 days.)

 

Some schools will not allow you to become an "in state" student if you came in as out of state. Because CA tuition is so low, they have a lot of people trying to claim residency to get lower rates.

 

Check with the school(s) he is looking at.

 

I am not asking about CA residency, I am asking about NC.  I am from CA, and I also am aware that they have tightened up their residency requirements.

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In my experience, his residence is not the relevant issue, it is the parents' residence that matters for in-state tuition.

 

 

Apparently we won't be residents of either state for tuition purposes either, which is why I am asking.

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This is the first thing you need answered by the schools of interest in CA. If his residency in CA is completely dependent on the parents, then he could take online classes from a NC school as an in-state student.

 

 quote name="jdahlquist" post="7745015" timestamp="1502840199"]Would enrolling in a summer class next summer in North Carolina be a possibility?  

f

 

If him taking online classes at a NC school will not impact his eventual CA residency, he could take an online class in the summer (or even a Maymester if there is such a thing at the school,) you could move as soon as he starts his class. I guess you could probably start driving to CA before he started as long as you did not complete the move until after he started. As long as he starts college before you finish the move/establish residency in CA, he will qualify for 12 months of in-state tuition.

 

Fingers crossed that it works out for you.

 

Would he want to take a gap year? Then he could start school in CA as an in-state resident.

 

That is what I am asking.  I don't know the answer.  The CA info says you must reside in CA with the intent to stay, meaning you must have a lease or a mortgage and a job (either parents have a job with a pay stub or letter or the student does.)

 

We aren't big on gap years.  I have not seen my friend's kids ever actually finish school after a gap year and I am reading statistics to support my theory that gap year students have lower college completion statistics than those who go straight to college.  AND, he doesn't want to do that, so it makes no sense for us.  

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That is what I am asking. I don't know the answer. The CA info says you must reside in CA with the intent to stay, meaning you must have a lease or a mortgage and a job (either parents have a job with a pay stub or letter or the student does.)

 

We aren't big on gap years. I have not seen my friend's kids ever actually finish school after a gap year and I am reading statistics to support my theory that gap year students have lower college completion statistics than those who go straight to college. AND, he doesn't want to do that, so it makes no sense for us.

Based on the info posted in this thread, it sounds like his best financial option might be to pay OOS tuition at your local CA CC and then apply as a transfer student in-state. I would want to confirm that that allows in-state rates, though.

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Do you ultimately see your DS transferring to and graduating from a CA school?

 

Then I'd consider a gap year, while you qualify for in state tuition.

 

I know you paid taxes for years, but I don't know any state that considers cumulative years of taxes paid. It based on residency of the last year of taxes. I assume your ds would be eligible for one semester (maybe 2) of in state tuition in NC after you physically move. If you don't have a budget for out of state tuition rates in NC, I would consider whether starting college there is worthwhile.

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Do you have CA target schools in mind if he "transfers" ?  UC in-state may be a little more than UNC or NC state in-state.

 

As suggested above, I would have him enroll in a NC summer class before the move to ensure in-state tuition.

 

Are you looking at community colleges for the first two years?

 

================================

https://students.ucsd.edu/finances/fees/residence/criteria.html

per above the student and parents should get CA drivers license ASAP to help show domicile.

 

 

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I am confused. I thought you were asking about CA and not NC. I thought he didn't want to stay in NC??

 

No, I know what the rules are about CA.  I know we will need to live there a full year before he considered a CA resident.  I was wondering about him taking a year of CC online through NC schools after we are in CA.

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Do you ultimately see your DS transferring to and graduating from a CA school?

 

Then I'd consider a gap year, while you qualify for in state tuition.

 

I know you paid taxes for years, but I don't know any state that considers cumulative years of taxes paid. It based on residency of the last year of taxes. I assume your ds would be eligible for one semester (maybe 2) of in state tuition in NC after you physically move. If you don't have a budget for out of state tuition rates in NC, I would consider whether starting college there is worthwhile.

 

Oh, I know our years of paying taxes won't count, I was just lamenting.

 

I really don't want a gap year, neither does he.  We will just bite the bullet and pay for the local CC if we have to.  I just thought I would ask.

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Do you have CA target schools in mind if he "transfers" ?  UC in-state may be a little more than UNC or NC state in-state.

 

As suggested above, I would have him enroll in a NC summer class before the move to ensure in-state tuition.

 

Are you looking at community colleges for the first two years?

 

================================

https://students.ucsd.edu/finances/fees/residence/criteria.html

per above the student and parents should get CA drivers license ASAP to help show domicile.

 

I know how much they all are.  Cal State schools are comparable in price to UNC schools.  UC schools are a bit more.  I think a UC school would be great, but he is not my go getter, and he may end up at a Cal State school. 

 

And thanks for the link.  I have been looking at all of that and know how it works.  We are going to try to get a house ASAP because even the DMV had tightened up and wants to see a rental agreement or pay stub, etc....before you can even get the CA DL.  So, our plans of a temporary rental for a month or two may be out as well (we were thinking like residence inn for a bit.)  

 

But honestly, the CA community colleges are about half of what our local CC prices are, so if he is first year out of state and second year in-state, it isn't much more than all two years of CC here in NC.  That does help me think about it a bit better in my mind.  I would love to pay the dirt cheap prices both years, but I will just let it go if I have to.

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<snip>

 

But honestly, the CA community colleges are about half of what our local CC prices are, so if he is first year out of state and second year in-state, it isn't much more than all two years of CC here in NC.  That does help me think about it a bit better in my mind.  I would love to pay the dirt cheap prices both years, but I will just let it go if I have to.

 

You need to be absolutely positive, that if he pays CA Out of State tuition, for one year, that they will then allow him to begin paying CA In State tuition, after that first year paying Out of State tuition.

 

I believe that you have confirmed that, but it is critical to be absolutely positive that you understand correctly.

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You need to be absolutely positive, that if he pays CA Out of State tuition, for one year, that they will then allow him to begin paying CA In State tuition, after that first year paying Out of State tuition.

 

I believe that you have confirmed that, but it is critical to be absolutely positive that you understand correctly.

 

It is clearly stated online.

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I dealt with this issue is a different state and paid out of state tuition until I had lived in the new state for a year (as an independent student, so it was based on where I lived).

 

 

He will not be independent.  We still will be claiming him on our taxes and he will be living with us.

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http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/HTML/BySection/Chapter_116/GS_116-143.1.html

 

 

"(i)         A person who, having acquired bona fide legal residence in North Carolina, has been classified as a resident for tuition purposes but who, while enrolled in an institution of higher education, loses North Carolina legal residence, shall continue to enjoy the in-State tuition rate for a statutory grace period. This grace period shall be measured from the date on which the culminating circumstances arose that caused loss of legal residence and shall continue for 12 months; provided, that a resident's marriage to a person domiciled outside of North Carolina shall not be deemed a culminating circumstance even when said resident's spouse continues to be domiciled outside of North Carolina; and provided, further, that if the 12-month period ends during a semester or academic term in which such a former resident is enrolled at an institution of higher education, such grace period shall extend, in addition, to the end of that semester or academic term."

 

 

If I interpret the legalese correctly, he is considered in state for a year following your move.

 

 

If you could make the above work maybe you can switch to California in-state tuition after one year. I seem to remember that you are considered a California residence after one year. Maybe you could ask about that and see if you could have take NC online classes for one year and then switch to California classes.

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I know you and your ds really don't want a gap year but I wonder if your new location will be near fantastic internship or volunteer opportunities that he could do on a gap year? Where we live, there are really fantastic opportunities for internships and volunteering that colleges and employers would love to see, I think. 

 

I get it about being concerned about a gap year but it could potentially be a way for him to grow, maybe earn money, and maybe be more clear about what he wants to do if he does not know yet. IMHO if he really wants college like I did, then a gap year is not necessarily bad at all. My parents refused a gap year for me and I ended up not doing well in my first year of college and ended up leaving college and worked for several years. Then I cam back to college  and did very well and went on to a great career. 

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Do check out the rules for residency. Some colleges require two years of in-state residency before offering the tuition. Due to desperately needing to keep in-state tuition for our guys, I will within about a year be living here along because dh's work situation is going to change. He'll be based just across the border in Ohio, unless his employer changes his mind, and if I move with him then the boys lose their in state tuition. We've lived here, worked here, and paid taxes here since 1994, but that means nothing in my state. He'll come home on the weekends until the youngest ds graduates. I'll have a Michigan residence and job so will be maintaining permanent Michigan residency.

 

If memory serves, one of the Carolinas requires that a parent live and work in-state for two years in order to establish "legal residency" for the purposes of in-state tuition. Definitely check out the rules where you intend to move.

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Do check out the rules for residency. Some colleges require two years of in-state residency before offering the tuition. Due to desperately needing to keep in-state tuition for our guys, I will within about a year be living here along because dh's work situation is going to change. He'll be based just across the border in Ohio, unless his employer changes his mind, and if I move with him then the boys lose their in state tuition. We've lived here, worked here, and paid taxes here since 1994, but that means nothing in my state. He'll come home on the weekends until the youngest ds graduates. I'll have a Michigan residence and job so will be maintaining permanent Michigan residency.

 

If memory serves, one of the Carolinas requires that a parent live and work in-state for two years in order to establish "legal residency" for the purposes of in-state tuition. Definitely check out the rules where you intend to move.

 

We are currently in NC.  We will not be leaving anyone here if we move.  We will all be moving.  

 

The only thing I considered was having him take online classes for the first year, but since starting this thread, I am thinking that isn't the best idea at all. I want him OUT and making new friends, etc......

 

Since this particular child isn't highly motivated......CC will prob. be our best bet anyway.  He is very smart and will study, but he also isn't a go-getter.  Thankfully, the CA CC transfer system is better than the NC CC transfer system, so we may be in better shape there anyway.

 

And, after realizing that 2 years in CA (one out of state and one in-state) tuition is pretty much the same as 2 years of in-state NC CC tuition, I feel better about it.

 

And yes, I have checked all the residency requirements for CA.   Dh and I will both be living and working in CA.  

 

What I am hoping for is that we can go out and immediately get DL.  That is the only sticky part.  We need a rental or purchase agreement to get them as CA has clamped down on those since we left.  We need to have CA DLs by a certain date (Sept. something or other) in order to qualify for the following year.  We are just going to have to make that a priority.

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This sounds like a good time to take a gap year, work a part-time job, take a few CLEPs and establish residency in CA. The credits he would receive in NC might not even transfer.

 

I know this is going to sound counter to what many here think, but we don't believe in gap years.  The few I have known who have taken them have never gone back and finished a 4 year degree.

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I know you and your ds really don't want a gap year but I wonder if your new location will be near fantastic internship or volunteer opportunities that he could do on a gap year? Where we live, there are really fantastic opportunities for internships and volunteering that colleges and employers would love to see, I think. 

 

I get it about being concerned about a gap year but it could potentially be a way for him to grow, maybe earn money, and maybe be more clear about what he wants to do if he does not know yet. IMHO if he really wants college like I did, then a gap year is not necessarily bad at all. My parents refused a gap year for me and I ended up not doing well in my first year of college and ended up leaving college and worked for several years. Then I cam back to college  and did very well and went on to a great career. 

 

 

Gap year doing what?  The only ones here locally require you to be in-state before you even apply.  Would there be any internship opportunities for an out of state kid who doesn't even get the opportunity to apply until August?  

 

Can you give me some specific examples?

 

I am not inclined to just move, not sign up for school, and then HOPE he gets some fantastic internship opportunity.

 

My oldest is in a paid internship right now, but it is through his college and he wouldn't have even known about it if he weren't enrolled and invited by the professor to apply.

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I know this is going to sound counter to what many here think, but we don't believe in gap years.  The few I have known who have taken them have never gone back and finished a 4 year degree.

I also don't believe in a gap year between HS and college - keep the ball rolling!

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