He wants to home school, but....

[Janeway]

This is how my day has gone. He is going in to 2nd grade and public school starts in 2 weeks. The school day starts at 7:45am and ends at 3pm. So the bus picks him up at 7am and he gets home around 3:15pm. Driving him will only make it take longer. He has to be in the building and in his seat when the first bell rings or he is tardy. So we would have to drive him at 7:15am to guarantee getting through the car line and in to the classroom in time. After school, the car line is so long, it takes until 3:30 to clear out. How long the school day takes is his big issue.

 

For me, having him at home means constant pestering for what he wants and refusing to do what I want. Earlier, he accidentally knocked over a puzzle. I asked him to pick it up and he says "no, I don't feel like it" and walks away. My husband says I need to spank. I am not one to spank. But I wonder if I am the cause of my own problems by refusing to spank. He has ASD, but it is mild. 

 

ALL DAY LONG he demands ipad or computer and also, to eat. This is how our day went. he got up after 9am. He wanted computer. I told him he had to eat, and reminded him computer is for after daddy gets home. He eats and then wants the computer. I tell him he is naked and needs to put on clothes, and also, computer waits until daddy gets home. Then he wants the ipad. I tell him again that he is naked and needs to put on clothes and by the way, the ipad is a computer and he cannot have it until daddy gets home. He goes and gets dressed and comes back and wants the ipad. I tell him no, you cannot have it until daddy gets home. Then he wants to watch TV. He watches one show of Paw Patrol and then wants his ipad. I tell him no, you cannot have it until daddy gets home. I have been giving him suggestions to what to do instead. And I asked him to pick up the puzzle and he walked away from me. Now we are an hour from when he first got up and had breakfast and he throws open the pantry and tells me he wants SpaghettiOs. I remind him he is not allowed in the panty and I get up and shut it and tell him he already ate, he must wait until lunch. Then, from noon until after 1pm, I was serving lunch. He had a good variety of things. He finished his last quesadilla shortly before 1:30pm. By 2pm, I was upstairs reading to the smaller children when he walks in with a box of pancake mix and tells me he wants pancakes. The pancake mix came from the pantry. I stop reading to the littles and the 2 yr old breaks out crying and I take away the pancake mix and go all the way downstairs to put it away and try to find the missing lock to the pantry. The lock is just a bungy cord wrapped around the handles, but it is missing.  Now I have shut down the school day until someone can find the missing bungy cord, or really, any bungy cord. Son is told again to stay out of the pantry. He is about to turn 8 yrs old. He has been awake for 5 hrs now and this is our day so far. Oh, and yes, he is right now sitting on the couch eating an apple. He also knows that food is supposed to stay in the kitchen. Which was another thing about the pancake mix. He was not supposed to bring it upstairs like that. Heck, he was not supposed to get it out at all. These are all rules he knows but refuses to do. And the puzzle? He is still on the stand off of refusing to pick it up.

 

Am I rotten for just saying no to home schooling him? I am exhausted and I have not even finished morning lessons with older kids because of all the time and energy the 7 yr old has taken. 

 

Is there anything that can make this school day better? Or am I just better off sending him off to school? I sometimes feel bad like he should be home. And then I think having him home would destroy life for everyone else while he is here. No one else would be able to school or otherwise.

 

 

[EKS]

Your decision to send him to school sounds reasonable to me.

 

As for the pestering about screens, I found that when I had a set time they could use them (say during the hour before dinner), that just put them in waiting mode all day until they could use them.  If I took away the screens completely, after a while, they would get involved in something else.  You may want to try not allowing him to use screens for a month (that is, physically remove them) and see if things get better.

 

 

[Wheres Toto]

We have set times they are allowed screens but it is also conditional on finishing their schoolwork, helping with chores, getting an hour of exercise, and behaving.  Which means (in addition to other things), doing all of the above without whining and with their best effort.  It isn't perfect and they have definitely lost screens at different times, but now it's just part of the routine so they don't bother to ask all day long.  

 

My kids also have absolutely no desire to go to B&M school, so telling them that school is not optional - whether it's at home with me or at the school building up the road, they MUST do school, helps.

 

If you're just starting a new system, I would fully expect him to keep trying to get what he wants until he knows you are serious.

[prairiewindmomma]

What structure does he have to his day?  I have an 11 yo that would eat and do electronics all day long if I let him, but I have specific expectations for his behavior, and he has structured things to do when I am not able to work with him 1:1. He needs that structure still, so I provide it.

 

My youngers are going to school this year so I can focus on my olders.  I don't feel like I need permission to make that decision or onerous burdens to justify sending them. They are going because that's what works best for my family.

 

 

 

[Janeway]

What structure does he have to his day?  I have an 11 yo that would eat and do electronics all day long if I let him, but I have specific expectations for his behavior, and he has structured things to do when I am not able to work with him 1:1. He needs that structure still, so I provide it.

 

My youngers are going to school this year so I can focus on my olders.  I don't feel like I need permission to make that decision or onerous burdens to justify sending them. They are going because that's what works best for my family.

He was at public school last year, so there was a schedule with that. At home, we have set meal times and set computer times. The computer time starts at 6pm when dad gets home from work. Breakfast is in the morning, before 10am. Lunch is from noon to 1pm. Snack from 3-4pm, and then dinner is at 5:30pm. There is an evening snack after 8pm. Ipad/computer time is 6-8pm. During the school year, the schedule is exactly the same, with him getting home shortly after 3pm and the entire remainder of the day is the same. Weekends are the same. Homework is done after snack. Snack is right after school. So, school days it is get off the bus, snack, homework, play time, dinner, dad gets home and they get their devices. They get off devices at 8pm and can have a snack then.

 

Despite having the same exact schedule for so long, the pestering continues.

 

But honestly, I made a huge mistake. I typed out a long explanation, but long story short, the ipads were very old and slow. And one was left out by a child resulting in a toddler throwing it over the balcony. I should have left well enough alone. Nope, I did not. In the end, in late June/early July, I bought two new ipads (I had discounts, but still, bad bad bad). And ever since, we are back to this. 

 

I never ever should have replaced those things. 

[Janeway]

Your decision to send him to school sounds reasonable to me.

 

As for the pestering about screens, I found that when I had a set time they could use them (say during the hour before dinner), that just put them in waiting mode all day until they could use them.  If I took away the screens completely, after a while, they would get involved in something else.  You may want to try not allowing him to use screens for a month (that is, physically remove them) and see if things get better.

I never should have gotten these things. I cannot wait to rid of them. I feel like selling them.

[HomeAgain]

I realized after typing this that I'm in the wrong forum, but here's my thoughts as the mom of an intense 7yo:

 

-he's literal.  I have to be very careful with my words because of this.  If I say "can you bring me a dishrag, please?" he's liable to answer "Yes, but I don't want to." as he wanders off.  I have to be specific and choose when to use a command "Bring me the dishrag" or speak language that moves him: "You need to bring that to me."  The phrase "you need" kicks something in him.  It becomes a rule, an order of the universe.

 

-he needs routine written down.  He is not good at being patient.  I have to write down an order of the day for him when we have things going on, and he's starting to do it himself.  He came to me this morning with a list of things he was going to do today, starting with getting dressed, eating breakfast....and on through a bike ride.  And then howled when I told him after lunch that we needed to go to the store because it was not part of his routine.  I can't use specific times with him.  It either brings out the worst in him (always checking the clock) or he just doesn't care.  And it doesn't matter if lunch is always at the same time here, the fact is that yesterday it was after painting and today he didn't paint so therefore lunch moved.  At least in his eyes.  He's just not familiar enough with gauging time internally.

 

-intense children are exhausting.  I don't think you're wrong at all to send him to school if he is thriving there.

[OneStepAtATime]

This child sounds like he needs a LOT of structure and established routine and interaction and external influence on what he is doing next.  He is probably trying to eat so much and play with the IPad out of boredom and lack of structure and something/someone to interact with.  He may just not be able to self regulate or self-entertain much at all while you are away working with other kids.  Putting him back in public school would give him more structure.  

 

How does he do with audio books?  Legos?  I know DS did better if he could get on his Kindle with wireless noise canceling headsets and listen to an audio book while he played with Legos.  

 

Is there a chore you could train him to do (with LOTS of consistent "training" until the procedural memory and muscle memory are established) then when you need some time with the youngers send him to help with House Maintenance?  Make it clear this is an important task you are proud he can do, not a punishment or a way to get rid of him.

 

Is there any older sibling that could be working one on one with him either reading a book with him or playing a mathy game with him or something along those lines while you work with youngers?  

 

Some kids do well with lists to order their day but many need help establishing the routine.  Maybe make a list of things to do each hour then every day for a couple of weeks you tomato stake him as much as possible and work through that list, over and over, each day to help him get that routine established.  Then see if he can self-regulate at least part of each day with that list.

[OneStepAtATime]

Or instead of keeping him away from the electronics, maybe sign him up for Time for Learning 2nd grade level and see if he would be happy doing lessons on-line?  You could still do normal lessons and just use it as a supplement and to keep him focused on something productive.  DS actually loved the 2nd grade level as a supplement and sometimes would burn through several lessons in a day.  He learned a lot and enjoyed it and I had something he could do while I worked one on one with DD.

[Zinnia]

My almost 11 year old goes to school, and I homeschool my other 3.

 

He likes for me to entertain his entire day.  He wants me to map it out for him, preferably minute by minute, but hour by hour will do.  If I leave any free time, he loses his mind, and his favorite cure for the boredom is to pick fights.  Yay?  My middle two children work best with long stretches of unstructured time.  

 

We went back to school last week.  The younger three all took a deep breath.  Our house is much calmer and less active without the oldest here.  He does well at school, and it allows everyone else to do well at home.  Total win/win.

[Lucy the Valiant]

Can you tie the screen time to behavior and attitude? As in . . . set a timer for screen time today; if he fusses when it's time to turn it off *OR* asks you more than once to use it before tomorrow's assigned time, then he DOESN'T GET IT AT ALL tomorrow.  Rinse, lather, repeat. (I have one that exact age right now, but he is a NT kiddo, and we do this all the time . . . if we're swimming at someone's house and it takes him 10 minutes to get out when I ask, then the next time we go swimming, he sits next to me for 10 minute before being allowed to swim. Stuff like that. You can be kind and gentle with him, still, but when his shenanigans inconvenience everyone else in the house, he might need to be personally "inconvenienced" a few times to put 2 and 2 together.)

 

That said, there's no guilt in sending him to school if that's best for him, too. You know him best and will be the best one to make that decision.

[freesia]

An alternate discipline idea that I use with pestering is to say no device if you pester and follow through. I also will send pesterers to their room or take away screen time. Fussing at and reminding or verbally correcting often doesn't work. He needs clear and consistent consequences.

 

The food thing needs consequences not locks.

[desertstrawberry5]

It sounds like you don't want to homeschool him and he was doing fine at school. I don't see a problem. 

At that age, I expect a lot of that kind of behavior. He has no concept of time, so the limit you are putting on him isn't working. And it's out of his control, which is difficult. The suggestion to give him some supplemental work on the ipad or computer to be used as a reward is good idea. We use free websites like khan academy, duolingo, Teach Your Monster to Read, typing web, or dancemat, starfall, prodigy and big brainz. It woulds like these are powerful motivators that could be used to smooth and soften your day. Require that he do x things before he has the games, and that he must put them down and work with you when it's time. Teach him first to limit disruptions. 

 

Is he hungry and growing? Does he need more food, more often? Can you supply him with healthy snacks that he can access himself? Or is he bored and looking for something to occupy himself? We have had the food struggle here too of getting into ingredients, making messes, and basically just being destructive. It's tough. At 7, I should like to think that he either needs better access to food, or something else to do. 

 

Why are you considering keeping him home? Just because his day is long and he tires of it? It doesn't sound like he wants to be homeschooled. It sounds like he just doesn't want school at all. Which is typical of this age. Second grade is hard. The novelty of school has worn off. They have other things they would rather do. There will be a lot of push back. 

 

Not picking up the puzzle would not fly here. I don't ask, I tell. And if there is any question, I tell them that. If he refuses, discipline him. Not spanking, that rarely works. But something immediate and effective. And explain it to him. ASD kids need a lot of explanation that NT kids don't. You can't just expect him to pick up on things that other kids do. you have to spell everything out to him. 

 

 

[Janeway]

This child sounds like he needs a LOT of structure and established routine and interaction and external influence on what he is doing next.  He is probably trying to eat so much and play with the IPad out of boredom and lack of structure and something/someone to interact with.  He may just not be able to self regulate or self-entertain much at all while you are away working with other kids.  Putting him back in public school would give him more structure.  

 

How does he do with audio books?  Legos?  I know DS did better if he could get on his Kindle with wireless noise canceling headsets and listen to an audio book while he played with Legos.  

 

Is there a chore you could train him to do (with LOTS of consistent "training" until the procedural memory and muscle memory are established) then when you need some time with the youngers send him to help with House Maintenance?  Make it clear this is an important task you are proud he can do, not a punishment or a way to get rid of him.

 

Is there any older sibling that could be working one on one with him either reading a book with him or playing a mathy game with him or something along those lines while you work with youngers?  

 

Some kids do well with lists to order their day but many need help establishing the routine.  Maybe make a list of things to do each hour then every day for a couple of weeks you tomato stake him as much as possible and work through that list, over and over, each day to help him get that routine established.  Then see if he can self-regulate at least part of each day with that list.

I am thinking because I do not have set activities in between the scheduled things, that might be a problem.

 

Thing is, I would like to move toward home schooling him, but he is so difficult on me that I feel like I cannot. He really does not want to go to public school. But his little sister does. And as long as she is there, he will be too. However, with the way public school is run, I am betting she doesn't want to go soon.

 

Maybe if I set down outdoor time and then art time and so on throughout the day, maybe things will improve. And enforce the activities. 

[Janeway]

It sounds like you don't want to homeschool him and he was doing fine at school. I don't see a problem. 

 

At that age, I expect a lot of that kind of behavior. He has no concept of time, so the limit you are putting on him isn't working. And it's out of his control, which is difficult. The suggestion to give him some supplemental work on the ipad or computer to be used as a reward is good idea. We use free websites like khan academy, duolingo, Teach Your Monster to Read, typing web, or dancemat, starfall, prodigy and big brainz. It woulds like these are powerful motivators that could be used to smooth and soften your day. Require that he do x things before he has the games, and that he must put them down and work with you when it's time. Teach him first to limit disruptions. 

 

Is he hungry and growing? Does he need more food, more often? Can you supply him with healthy snacks that he can access himself? Or is he bored and looking for something to occupy himself? We have had the food struggle here too of getting into ingredients, making messes, and basically just being destructive. It's tough. At 7, I should like to think that he either needs better access to food, or something else to do. 

 

Why are you considering keeping him home? Just because his day is long and he tires of it? It doesn't sound like he wants to be homeschooled. It sounds like he just doesn't want school at all. Which is typical of this age. Second grade is hard. The novelty of school has worn off. They have other things they would rather do. There will be a lot of push back. 

 

Not picking up the puzzle would not fly here. I don't ask, I tell. And if there is any question, I tell them that. If he refuses, discipline him. Not spanking, that rarely works. But something immediate and effective. And explain it to him. ASD kids need a lot of explanation that NT kids don't. You can't just expect him to pick up on things that other kids do. you have to spell everything out to him. 

He comes to me and tells me he wants to home school. He hates school.

 

There are things I greatly object to in the public school here. They no longer teach handwriting, spelling, grammar, mechanics, and math is taught with a calculator even at the early levels. And yet, they keep making the day longer and longer. He has to get on the bus at 7am and won't get home until after 3pm.

[desertstrawberry5]

I am thinking because I do not have set activities in between the scheduled things, that might be a problem.

 

Thing is, I would like to move toward home schooling him, but he is so difficult on me that I feel like I cannot. He really does not want to go to public school. But his little sister does. And as long as she is there, he will be too. However, with the way public school is run, I am betting she doesn't want to go soon.

 

Maybe if I set down outdoor time and then art time and so on throughout the day, maybe things will improve. And enforce the activities. 

how many kids do have? What ages? Which ones are home? Are you homeschooling, or just thinking about it?

 

Look into Managers of Their Homes. There are other methods as well, but this one lays out an easy, flexible way to make sure that everyone is doing something at all times.

 

If you have a toddler ( I think you do), you can write her into the schedule. Have a scheduled playtime with each sibling. Right now, Luna is assigned to Jeff while I work with the little boys. earlier she was with Jay while I worked with W. In a few minutes, I will give her to Ben so I can work with Jeff. I have this written out on a small grid. so it's easy to follow. 

 

You can give your boy lots of small tasks to rotate through so that he is always busy. Jay is a super busy guy, and I have to do this for him. He has to always have something planned, or he will scream a lot and destroy things. It takes a few minutes to put together a plan. It will take a lot of directing and reminding. Eventually he may fall into line. 

[justasque]

... My husband says I need to spank. I am not one to spank. But I wonder if I am the cause of my own problems by refusing to spank. He has ASD, but it is mild. 

...

 

Your husband sounds frustrated, which is understandable.  However, while spanking an ASD kid may be tempting, and while it may seem like an easy solution, it is not developmentally appropriate, nor is it likely to be effective.  

 

Thinking from the perspective of teaching, rather than discipline, is a better way to seek solutions.  The long-term goal is to help your child make good choices, behavior-wise and otherwise, on his own, whether you/dh are there to dish out consequences or not.

  

[winterbaby]

 He really does not want to go to public school. But his little sister does. And as long as she is there, he will be too. However, with the way public school is run, I am betting she doesn't want to go soon.

 

 

I think a lot of your issues stem from giving too much weight to what kids say they want (thinking also of your ongoing struggles over screen time).

 

I think a lot of people on here would agree with you that public school has issues. That's what afterschooling is for. And yes it's a big trade-off on many levels. But I don't think it's appropriate for a kid that age to be left at loose ends while you tend to other kids for extended periods. Especially with special needs. And it's certainly not realistic to expect good behavior with that lack of structure and stimulation. I find that my ASD child benefits hugely from the structure and social exposure of school followed by structured time - meaning time in which I take an active role - at home and on weekends. I get pushback against the structure, and I definitely wish I had more leeway to let her do her own thing, but without it, behavior rapidly collapses. Leaving them on their own with verbal instructions just doesn't work. You have to be there, and if you can't (I'm not clear how old your younger children are or why you can't make your activities with them a family thing), you should consider arranging with others who can (the school).

[Storygirl]

An alternate discipline idea that I use with pestering is to say no device if you pester and follow through. I also will send pesterers to their room or take away screen time. Fussing at and reminding or verbally correcting often doesn't work. He needs clear and consistent consequences.

 

The food thing needs consequences not locks.

 

Consequences may work for some kids, but it does not for others. We have found that we need to lock some food items up, because DS is so impulsive that he cannot resist them, even if there are consequences.

 

We bought a large Rubbermaid bin that we lock with combination locks, and it has worked well over the months that we have had it, though it is a pain for me, when I have to get things out of it. Food has been an issue here for a very long time, and the bin has really helped. (We have a little door alarm on the pantry as well, but DS has learned how to turn it off.)

 

For some kids, the best choice is for the tempting food to be removed from their presence. Either don't buy it (not always an an option for us), or remove the temptation by keeping it inaccessible.

 

When this issue has come up on the boards in the past, there have always been many voices against locks. But sometimes it is what works effectively for a particular situation. Janeway, if you need to lock up some food, I think you need to brainstorm for better ways to do it than a bungee cord that can be disconnected and lost (it's hard, I know from experience).

[Storygirl]

I am thinking because I do not have set activities in between the scheduled things, that might be a problem.

 

Thing is, I would like to move toward home schooling him, but he is so difficult on me that I feel like I cannot. He really does not want to go to public school. But his little sister does. And as long as she is there, he will be too. However, with the way public school is run, I am betting she doesn't want to go soon.

 

Maybe if I set down outdoor time and then art time and so on throughout the day, maybe things will improve. And enforce the activities. 

 

I think it might help to provide extra structure to the day. My kids have needed that. It seems like more work for you at the outset, but it may pay off in less frustration for everyone.

[Pen]

You might also want to take a look at this thread http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/654812-who-said-they-were-reading-the-book-glow-kids/?p=7744811 as it relates to screen addiction and related issues.

[Ravin]

Setting boundaries and reinforcing them requires consistency. It does not require spanking. If he disobeys, enact a consequence; don't just let him walk away. In your case, I would continue to insist he pick up the puzzle every time he spoke to me or tried to interact until he did it, so long as it remains important that he pick up the puzzle.