Skipping AoPS Pre-Algebra

[rainbowmama]

cross-posting to the main curricula board

My rising fifth grader finished Beast Academy. While we waited for Beast titles to published, she played on Alcumus a lot. We did the "Do You Need This?" test for pre-algebra and she breezed through it. If we skipped pre-Algebra, we would probably do the middle school competition math book exclusively until her AMC8 test this fall and then start Algebra, which she would love. However, I'm nervous about skipping a formal pre-algebra curriculum. If you skipped pre-Algebra using AoPS, do you regret it? Did it work well?

[maize]

You can skip it, my dd did just a few chapters then moved into Algebra. It has plenty of challenging content though, and with a child so young I don't see a real benefit to pushing ahead in the math sequence. Why don't you try it and just move quickly through any parts that are too easy?

[snowbeltmom]

I loved the AoPS pre-algebra book.  However, it wasn't available when my oldest two were ready for it, and they did fine in the higher level math.  However, had the book been available, they would have completed it prior to beginning algebra.

[Dmmetler]

The tests aren't a good reflection of the text. Can you borrow it and look through it? She would probably be fine, but there's a lot of good stuff in AoPS PA. (My DD says that she breezed through her required for ed majors college math teaching class largely due to AoPS PA-that was where the other students got hung up on a regular basis because they didn't know how to manipulate exponents, roots, fractions, and so on well enough to even be able to recognize when they were getting off).

[rainbowmama]

You can skip it, my dd did just a few chapters then moved into Algebra. It has plenty of challenging content though, and with a child so young I don't see a real benefit to pushing ahead in the math sequence. Why don't you try it and just move quickly through any parts that are too easy?

 

I don't want to pay for a book we won't use very much, and I know my daughter would prefer working through the competition math book before her competition this fall rather than reviewing her pre-algebra. The competition math book is sequenced for after pre-algebra.

Edited August 14, 2017 by rainbowmama

[Dmmetler]

The thing is, it's not just review. There is a lot in the AoPS book that is not covered in a typical PA class, and definitely is not on their placement test. You'd have to actually look through the book to figure out if it's a good fit or not.

[maize]

I don't want to pay for a book we won't use very much, and I know my daughter would prefer working through the competition math book before her competition this fall rather than reviewing her pre-algebra. The competition math book is sequenced for after pre-algebra.

It won't be review, it goes way deeper into stuff than any other pre-algebra program I have seen.

[Arcadia]

While we waited for Beast titles to published, she played on Alcumus a lot. We did the "Do You Need This?" test for pre-algebra and she breezed through it. If we skipped pre-Algebra, we would probably do the middle school competition math book exclusively until her AMC8 test this fall and then start Algebra, which she would love.

  

I don't want to pay for a book we won't use very much, and I know my daughter would prefer working through the competition math book before her competition this fall rather than reviewing her pre-algebra.

If cost of the prealgebra book is the main factor then your daughter can finish all the prealgebra topics on Alcumus instead of doing the book. My kids prealgebra books are well worn out but cost wasn't a factor so my kids have their own aops books for prealgebra to calculus (including number theory and counting & probability).

 

If time constraints and doing well for the November AMC8 is the main factor, then focus on competition prep. However getting a perfect score for AMC8 isn't useful for anything that I can think of. If your daughter likes math competitions, she can always do the AMC10 and AMC12 as well and aim to qualify to take the AIME.

[RoundAbout]

Personally I wouldn't skip. I think its meatier than the Intro to Algebra book in some ways and some of the chapters like Rates and Proportions are very tough (and good competition prep). We are doing the middle school math competition book and personally I don't like it. I'm actually surprised its put out by AOPS because its so different in style than the rest of their stuff - lots of emphasis on memorizing formulas, less detailed solutions, and some of the problems are poorly worded.

[rainbowmama]

Personally I wouldn't skip. I think its meatier than the Intro to Algebra book in some ways and some of the chapters like Rates and Proportions are very tough (and good competition prep). We are doing the middle school math competition book and personally I don't like it. I'm actually surprised its put out by AOPS because its so different in style than the rest of their stuff - lots of emphasis on memorizing formulas, less detailed solutions, and some of the problems are poorly worded.

That's great to know. Thanks

[mathnerd]

Another vote of not skipping PA book - she is very young still, so it is not necessary to push forward fast. We found PA book to be harder than the Alcumus website and I recommend working on PA for the challenging problems section specifically.

[Dmmetler]

BA didn't exist yet when DD did AoPS PA. Having said that, they intend kids to go from BA 5 to AoPS PA, and my experience with AoPS is that if content is repeated, it's because they are going into it at a much greater depth, with very, very little repetition. Review comes from using the same skills at a higher level, not by doing more of the same.

[Cake and Pi]

My 9yo did BA 3-5 and is now just starting AoPS PA.  I agree that many of the chapters have similar content.  It looks much more algebra-y, though, iykwim.  They make generalizations with variables for everything, so even familiar things look a bit foreign.  DS#1 hasn't gotten far enough in yet for me to say if he finds it too much review from BA, but it looks like probably a good fit (for him, maybe not for your particular kid).  There are challenge problems that look almost exactly like stared problems from BA, but with different numbers.  There are also some much more complicated looking problems, especially in regards to the use of fractions (not in a fraction-specific chapter), variables, and "show that..." type problems.  The big jump for my kid is going to be those "show that..." problems.  There seems to  be more variety in type of problems, too.  Those are my observations from looking at the TOC and skimming through the first 4ish chapters, anyway.

[rainbowmama]

For those of you who recommend not skipping PreA, did your kids finish BA5? I have just skimmed the book, but a lot of the material seems very similar (ratios, fractions, decimals, exponents, etc.). Apart from the later chapters on geometry topics/data/etc. Is there a lot of new material or would it feel repetitive?

 

Excellent point that I didn't think about. As 5D just came out, I'm sure those of us who finished all of Beast are in a minority, but I'd especially love feedback from those who did

[silver]

My son has not done BA5 (MM was his main curriculum, BA was a supplement, so we went too slow to finish it), and he's only completed chapter 1 and the first few sections of chapter 2 so far in PreA. But a few things from our experience.

 

He found Alcumus for chapter 1 to be a breeze compared to the book. The book spends a good portion of time on proofs, definitions, and generalizing. The exercises in the book and Alcumus are about the application of the rules, but the deep learning of the rules comes from working through the problems and reading the solutions at the start of each section. He's just started chapter two (exponents) at the same time that his sister has started the BA 4A chapter on exponents. From looking at the books, it seems like the first portion of PreA Chapter 2 topically lines up with BA 4A's exponents, but much deeper. So although BA 4A taught some basics on exponents (which is also covered in PreA), the early sections of PreA have the student exploring topics such as if they can distribute exponentiation over division, addition, etc. 

 

Obviously, a student could skip PreA, as the Algebra book came out before PreA. But I do think there is value to doing the PreA book. For one, it allows the student to experience the format of AOPS books using topics that they have familiarity with (while also adding more depth).

[mathnerd]

For those of you who recommend not skipping PreA, did your kids finish BA5? I have just skimmed the book, but a lot of the material seems very similar (ratios, fractions, decimals, exponents, etc.). Apart from the later chapters on geometry topics/data/etc. Is there a lot of new material or would it feel repetitive?

We did BA until 4D before starting PreA because BA5 was not available. Later, when BA 5 was released, we still worked through them because my DS loves those monsters and asked me to buy the books for him. There is no comparison between preA books and BA5. They are different. PreA has similar topics but they go much deeper. There are also many problem sets (some from math competitions) that are very challenging. For my DS, who understood all the concepts well, it took a while to start writing equations in terms of variables and applying mathematical concepts and functions on variables instead of numbers. It helped ease his way into thinking of numbers in an abstract way.

Algebra is a lot smoother now because we stuck with preA.

 

ETA: we were also working on SM along with BA. BA was not the only elementary math curriculum we used .

Edited August 17, 2017 by mathnerd