Interesting MLM article

[Catwoman]

Yep. It is one of the reasons I quit my last hairdresser. She was always bringing up how great everything was going with her expensive face cream mlm 'business'.

That must have been a nuisance -- and uncomfortable for you, too, because you were basically trapped into listening to her while she was cutting your hair. I would have found a new hairstylist, too.

[Mergath]

That's an excellent point. If they're trying to get you to sign up, they're probably not going to tell you they're not making any money.

 

It's like the linked article said- don't believe it unless you've seen the seller's tax returns.

Edited August 14, 2017 by Mergath

[PinkyandtheBrains.]

 

 

I don't know if it's still true but when I joined Usborne the basic kit was books I wanted and I received a lifetime discount on their books. I never used it as a job.

[Carol in Cal.]

I don't mind MLMs because I don't mind saying no, in a nice way, to someone who invites me to participate.

And also, I hate to shop, and I like to support my friends, so if they have a good product I'll preferentially buy from them.

Having said that, it is annoying to get invited to 6+ events per year from CAbI, by the consultant who I told, look, I can't wear CAbI anymore because I am a size 2X and you only go up to XL.  I have taken to not replying to those invitations, which is kind of rude of me, but OTOH, I think that I've been clear and kind multiple times, and that's that.

 

The companies I like are Amway for some cleaning products, Silpada (but they don't have consultants anymore), Pampered Chef, and Tupperware. 

 

I'm mixed on Mary Kay.  I like some of the lipsticks, but the skin products don't work for me, and I hate being pushed after (again) I've been kind and clear that I am allergic to them, despite that pretty much being impossible because they are made for people with sensitive skin like mine.  Um, not so much.

 

Not interested in Usborne, or Rodan and Fields, Arbonne the nutsy expensive, or any of the essential oils-OMGosh-you-did-NOT-say-that-it-cures-this.  Or Melaleuca, similarly to EOs.

 

As for how they treat their consultants, I think the LuLaRoe model is insanely stupid ($5000 and I can't pick the prints or get refunds for damaged good reliably?  No thanks!), but most of them have low initial purchase requirements, and they do tend to provide some basic business training.  I can imagine someone doing, say, Avon for a while and then starting their own business.  I look at MLMs as scaffolding toward that.

Edited August 15, 2017 by Carol in Cal.

[SeaConquest]

I know a few women selling Rodan and Fields. They keep saying that they are loving their paychecks from their second gig or side hustle and are looking forward to quitting their day jobs. Depresses me a bit. These are women that are nurses and doctors. Maybe they do want to sell cosmetics to rich women, but this country needs doctors and nurses!

 

I have a friend who quit nursing because she is the highest level of status with Younique. I don't blame her. She makes a crap ton more than she used to as a nurse, gets a free car, goes on expensive luxury trips care of the company.

 

The thing with MLMs is that you have to get in early so that you are top of the pyramid. The top people in MLMs tend to go from one to the next because they bring much of their downline with them to the next one (with the promise of greater riches for getting in even earlier). If you can't get in early (or can't get past the icky feeling of profiting from the pyramid), don't bother. All those at the bottom of the pyramid (the 99%) are suckers (same can be said for large law firm associates). 

[Zinnia]

I don't have much of a problem with MLM, but the older i get, the easier it is for me to say no to anything.

I do have one person on my feed that slightly bothers me.  She sells Beachbody, and she is a worship leader at one of the satellite campuses of a local mega church.  Everyone knows her, and she uses that to her advantage.  But everyone knows her because of church, so it feels a little bit icky.

[Sk8ermaiden]

So is Usborne Books one of these MLM companies?  I've used a lot of their books with my kids, but I'm always put off by the "Join" and "Find a Consultant" on their site.  I hope they're not scamming a bunch of moms.

Yes, Usborne is an MLM, but it's about $75 buy in for the kit of books and they never require you to purchase any other inventory. 

 

I finally bought in last month because I order from them SO MUCH I would like the discount. Every single book in the consultant kit was a great addition to our home library, and there has been zero pressure to sign up more people or host parties. I can't stand people who press their friends to buy stuff, and made it clear to the person I signed under I wouldn't be selling. 

 

I know quite a few people who are Usborne reps...only a couple are making money, but none are losing any, and none of them seem deluded about getting rich.

[KungFuPanda]

A friend of mine just started MLM recently because we live in an affluent big city and NO ONE around us has heard of it! So she has had great sales so far.

 

But she has a day job that  pays well (even has a pension!) and only does this as a distraction from some things she has otherwise been brooding over.

 

I can't believe LuLaRoe marketing. That is whacked. I can't imagine buying "inventory" without knowing what will come. WT*?

 

Emily

This is what bugs me. The consultants are the real customers and they seem to be working for merchandise discounts. The consultant's customers are just there to make it all look legal so everyone can pretend it's not a pyramid scheme.

[HS Mom in NC]

Not interested in Usborne, or Rodan and Fields, Arbonne the nutsy expensive, or any of the essential oils-OMGosh-you-did-NOT-say-that-it-cures-this. 

 

 

 

On an ickier note, yes there really are people selling products who tell terminally ill people, who they know are terminally ill,  to try their product because, "I just couldn't live with myself to not mention it if it could help you. So many people have been cured by this amazing product!"  My SIL, wife and mother of a 12 and a 16 year old, has stage 4-there's-nothing-else-we-can-try breast, bone and liver cancer and has heard that.  I forget which product it was. We have no idea how much longer she will live.  It could be any time now. She doesn't expect to see another holiday season. Seriously, do people really believe someone who has battled cancer twice over 11 years isn't aware of every possible treatment out there?  Hell, she's been in clinical trials with experimental treatments too. 

 

And the trash talk about medical doctors is shocking.  "What doctors don't want you to know about insert name of product or alternative treatment here." Actually, the people who go into cancer and other research and treatment really do want their patients cured and would love love love to put themselves out of business-it's actually one of their life goals. They care about their patients and see them and their families struggle through seriously illness first hand every day and they care deeply.  Trash talking them to peddle your wares is disgusting.

[regentrude]

What I don't get is how the stuff sells considering it is so much more expensive than products available in stores.

I stopped by LLR pop up boutiques at our local women's center, and the clothes are of such poor quality for the price. (Not to mention that some designs are hideous, but that's taste.) However, I expect better quality from a $55 dress. Why are they so popular?

Also had a guy try to talk me into Nerium by showing me before and after pictures (15 minutes time difference) of my own face - with different lighting. Who pays that much money for cosmetic products with dubious claims?

I don't get it. Maybe I'm too cheap.

Edited August 15, 2017 by regentrude

[Catwoman]

On an ickier note, yes there really are people selling products who tell terminally ill people, who they know are terminally ill, to try their product because, "I just couldn't live with myself to not mention it if it could help you. So many people have been cured by this amazing product!" My SIL, wife and mother of a 12 and a 16 year old, has stage 4-there's-nothing-else-we-can-try breast, bone and liver cancer and has heard that. I forget which product it was. We have no idea how much longer she will live. It could be any time now. She doesn't expect to see another holiday season. Seriously, do people really believe someone who has battled cancer twice over 11 years isn't aware of every possible treatment out there? Hell, she's been in clinical trials with experimental treatments too.

 

And the trash talk about medical doctors is shocking. "What doctors don't want you to know about insert name of product or alternative treatment here." Actually, the people who go into cancer and other research and treatment really do want their patients cured and would love love love to put themselves out of business-it's actually one of their life goals. They care about their patients and see them and their families struggle through seriously illness first hand every day and they care deeply. Trash talking them to peddle your wares is disgusting.

I'm so sorry to hear about your SIL. :( It is absolutely disgusting that anyone would ever try to take advantage of her illness or to try to give her false hope just so they could make money off of her.

[SereneHome]

My FB feed is flooded with Young Living, Juice Plus, LLR, It Works green juice cleanser thingy,  Shakelogy and a few others.

 

The ones who sell Young Living are the most obnoxious.  Not only they are pushing oils but evidently there is also a magic drink and  magic toothpaste and magic make up and deodorants and everything else under the sun.  And there are so many amazing conferences with the most profound speakers.

 

Evidently one woman went from living in debt to almost having her husband quit his job as a police officer bc they are making tons of money.  I only met her once in real life, years ago, but based on her FB pictures, they are living the life.

 

Years ago I signed up with Arbonne bc I really liked their make up and that gave a nice discount.  They never asked me to sell to anyone or recruit anyone.  But then their make up changed and I stopped wearing make up all together and that was the end of my MLM life.

 

 

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

What I don't get is how the stuff sells considering it is so much more expensive than products available in stores.

I stopped by LLR pop up boutiques at our local women's center, and the clothes are of such poor quality for the price. (Not to mention that some designs are hideous, but that's taste.) However, I expect better quality from a $55 dress. Why are they so popular?

Also had a guy try to talk me into Nerium by showing me before and after pictures (15 minutes time difference) of my own face - with different lighting. Who pays that much money for cosmetic products with dubious claims?

I don't get it. Maybe I'm too cheap.

 

 

This is the worst part of it for me:  They are not selling at those prices because they have a superior product, they are selling because they prey on interpersonal relationships and guilt.  It's like how we're all ok with buying a candy bar for two bucks to help a friends' kid's baseball team even though we could get it at the store for a dollar.  

 

We pay that extra amount to "help" our friend's "business" take off.  It's a friendship tax.  It's a horrible manipulation of our desire for friendship and inclusion.    

[Bluegoat]

This is what bugs me. The consultants are the real customers and they seem to be working for merchandise discounts. The consultant's customers are just there to make it all look legal so everyone can pretend it's not a pyramid scheme.

 

I agree - it's never ending middlemen - who actually aren't even providing a real service.

 

In the pre-capitalism era, this is one of the reasons importers and merchants were sometimes looked on with some moral suspicion.  They weren't making anything themselves, just moving what others had made and charging more.  Now, they were actually performing a service, in terms of organization if nothing else - moving goods from one place to another.  But there was always a suspicion that they were just making money by being a middleman, which was seen as immoral.

 

Pyramid schemes are kind of the epitome of that, IMO.

 

This is what I don't understand, though - why does anyone agree to be in someone's downline?  Wouldn't it make sense to be in contact directly with the company too?  Or do they have some kind of rule about regions?  

[Hyacinth]

Just needed to pop in here to comment on the before and after of the whitening toothpaste pics that have been showing up in my feed. The difference is remarkable! As is the gullibility of anyone who doesn't notice the changes in lighting from one pic to the next. Duh.

[Miss Peregrine]

Just needed to pop in here to comment on the before and after of the whitening toothpaste pics that have been showing up in my feed. The difference is remarkable! As is the gullibility of anyone who doesn't notice the changes in lighting from one pic to the next. Duh.

Yes! Ugh. Same with the R+F pics.

[Guest]

Or Isagenix.

(Or so my DH was told when he was dx with cancer. Healing on a cellular level and all that jazz...*)

*insert eye roll emoji*

That's just so despicable. I would be tempted to say, "Oh, really? Then wouldn't it be a wonderful humanitarian effort if the company would donate 5,000 units to the cancer treatment center or children's cancer center? Imagine! We can cure cancer with this product; such a shame we can only get it from a MLM dealer..."

[Guest]

I agree - it's never ending middlemen - who actually aren't even providing a real service.

 

In the pre-capitalism era, this is one of the reasons importers and merchants were sometimes looked on with some moral suspicion. They weren't making anything themselves, just moving what others had made and charging more. Now, they were actually performing a service, in terms of organization if nothing else - moving goods from one place to another. But there was always a suspicion that they were just making money by being a middleman, which was seen as immoral.

 

Pyramid schemes are kind of the epitome of that, IMO.

 

This is what I don't understand, though - why does anyone agree to be in someone's downline? Wouldn't it make sense to be in contact directly with the company too? Or do they have some kind of rule about regions?

Well, the recruitment for the downline is usually (i.e. Always ;)) targeted to people who are unlikely to be top-level distributor people of any kind. So, they are looking for people to whom they can promise great earnings for very PT work while not having to understand the mechanics of managing a full-scale business. (This is why SAHMs so frequently fit the profile.) As far as the kind of people who have the business acumen to be top-level, yes, there are usually regions. Most or all MLM companies will not permit you to operate at "distributor" level unless you buy a franchise or work up from the bottom of someone's downline. That's why you can't set up an Arbonne web store, for example; you can only have your little linked web page so your wholesale purchases go through the channels above you. You can't just buy wholesale Tupperware (legally) and operate your own Tupperware shop that doesn't follow their Direct Sales model.

[xixstar]

I'll join the dissenters - direct sales models don't bother me, they can be a great option for some women. I've run a few businesses (one being a direct sales business) and the direct sales was the easiest to get started, provided the most support, and was instantly profitable. For someone just trying to add income but without the drive to create their own business from scratch, it can be a great option -- but it's important for them to know what they're really getting into. Most of the time, it's about being a successful leader and helping others succeed; people are right that rarely will you get rich based on sales alone. 

There are good ways and bad ways to run a direct sales business -- I'll admit that I started mine poorly before learning how to not be obnoxious on social media and with friends. But I know several people that run theirs very well and I'm proud of the success they've had doing so. For those that do it poorly - I just unfollow or unfriend.

I have been shocked at the high cost to get into things like LLR - that model runs counter to most direct sales that I know. Most have very low start up costs and the costs are covering product that the person could use if they just wanted the consultant discount and didn't even plan to run a business. I've almost become a Thirty-one consultant several times just for the consultant kit - it's an excellent price for what you get.  There is a board game company that I'm frequently tempted to join as well.

I (probably) won't ever do direct sales again, but I don't fault people that give it a try and hope they'll have good support to be successful -- not all do it in a predatory way and exploit all their relationships. You can do it without doing that, but sadly, many people don't learn that until after they've stepped on some toes. Yes, there are some bad companies and I think they should be called out on it. But I think that it's still a great opportunity for the right person and it's amazing that someone can start a supportive business with such a small start up cost (again stuff like $5k on LLR is excluded from this statement). 

[Guest]

And the trash talk about medical doctors is shocking. "What doctors don't want you to know about insert name of product or alternative treatment here." Actually, the people who go into cancer and other research and treatment really do want their patients cured and would love love love to put themselves out of business-it's actually one of their life goals. They care about their patients and see them and their families struggle through seriously illness first hand every day and they care deeply. Trash talking them to peddle your wares is disgusting.

Yes, this is the thing that bothers me so much. It's so illogical. It's a strawman bashing of the worst sort. Doctors are people, too. I can't imagine there is a single doctor over the age of thirty who hasn't had his or her life affected by cancer. Every person has had an aunt, a grandparent, a mother, a brother, a dear friend, a whomever, who was affected by cancer. To lump together doctors as if they are all calloused, sub-human leaches who just want to make certain their cushy lives are not disrupted? It's so illogical. And I hate to say it, but this is one reason, I expect, why lower economic status people are more likely to believe such claims. They don't know any doctors personally. Doctors represent an economic class that is very different from their own and thus it is easier to lump them together in a faceless category of elite people who don't care about others.

 

Tangential little story: not very long after my FIL died of cancer, that book by the charleton, Kevin Trudeux, came out. That was a prime example of "doctors don't want you to know..." crazy talk. My MIL was a little bit swayed by his late-night infomercial one time, but thankfully (maybe because she is from MO, the "show me" state, lol!), she asked her doctor about that fruitcake and his "doctors don't want you to know" trash regarding cancer. Her doctor said very gently, "Ma'am, think about this. Do you really think that all the many thousands of doctors who see people die and hurt every day because of cancer, would not be overjoyed to see cancer eradicated? We doctors who treat cancer have also lost people we love due to cancer - wouldn't we happily try shark cartiledge or crushed coral or anything like that if it would work?"

[HS Mom in NC]

My oldest daughter is a doula (professional birth and postpartum support.) They're now seeing nursing problems in some babies because some mommies are rubbing themselves down with oils for every ailment, real and imagined, and the smell is overwhelming to wee ones, so they don't want to latch on.

[vonfirmath]

What shocked me is that it costs $5k to join LLR. Kind of a brilliant marketing move. Make it expensive so it feels elite and exclusive.

 

A Co-worker has started a Luluroe business so I knew the cost. (Not sure where she got it from. None of my business). She wore a cute shirt I was interested in "If you have it in my size" and she assured me Luluroe was in all sizes -- but obviously not in that print. I wasn't interested in the brand. I was interested in the print. None of the shirts she sent me pictures of were anythiing like the one I commented on. Oh well.

 

I'm not interested enough to chase it. Just figured I might help out a friend and get a cute shirt at the same time.

[winterbaby]

And I hate to say it, but this is one reason, I expect, why lower economic status people are more likely to believe such claims. They don't know any doctors personally. Doctors represent an economic class that is very different from their own and thus it is easier to lump them together in a faceless category of elite people who don't care about others.

To be fair, lower-income people are also much more likely to have found themselves (or loved ones) on the wrong end of the issues we have in this country about access to health care, which could also impact one's feelings about doctors and economics. That's there's a money motivation in health care isn't actually a misconception, even if doctors themselves don't bear the bulk of the responsibility for that (though IMO they do hold some, or else - look at it the other way 'round - lower-income people wouldn't be so unknown to them).