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Dr. Hive, is this *just* anxiety disorder and panic attacks?


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#101 Shellydon

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 10:21 PM

After much hysteria, she finally fell asleep.  I hate worrying about drug reactions.  Serotonin Syndrome, Klonopin addiction  Ugh



#102 Jean in Newcastle

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 01:49 AM

Has she had an actual neurological work up?  What you said about not being able to sit still struck a nerve (get it?) with me.  Gabapentin has helped me with more than just restless leg but entire body restlessness and nerve problems (including pain). 



#103 Shellydon

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Posted 05 October 2017 - 04:05 PM

Has she had an actual neurological work up?  What you said about not being able to sit still struck a nerve (get it?) with me.  Gabapentin has helped me with more than just restless leg but entire body restlessness and nerve problems (including pain). 

 

Not by a neurologist.  An ER doc and her pediatrician have done basic neuro exams. 

 

 

The Klonopin plus Prozac is producing the best results and giving her the most normal life.  Scares the crud out of me to have her on these drugs, but I don't know what else to do.



#104 Tiramisu

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Posted 05 October 2017 - 04:28 PM

Coming here late but melatonin occasionally makes orthodtatic problems worse in people prone to them. Hopefully that isn't much of an issue.

My D's legs became restless while sitting when she went on an SSRI. It's not ideal but it's a trade off that has been worth it.

I wish you well in getting the sleep issues under control. I'd been inclined to try the sleep med. If sleep can be normalized, other things might improve, too.

#105 Terabith

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Posted 05 October 2017 - 09:50 PM

Have you tried a weighted blanket for sleep?


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#106 ktgrok

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Posted 05 October 2017 - 09:52 PM

I agree you need a neurology work up, with a neurologist, not primary care. 


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#107 hornblower

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Posted 05 October 2017 - 10:52 PM

just hugs  :grouphug:  

 



#108 Shellydon

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Posted 06 October 2017 - 10:50 AM

Have you tried a weighted blanket for sleep?

 

No, but I have been looking up how to make them.  I am going to order the plastic beads today.



#109 Shellydon

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Posted 06 October 2017 - 10:52 AM

Coming here late but melatonin occasionally makes orthodtatic problems worse in people prone to them. Hopefully that isn't much of an issue.

My D's legs became restless while sitting when she went on an SSRI. It's not ideal but it's a trade off that has been worth it.

I wish you well in getting the sleep issues under control. I'd been inclined to try the sleep med. If sleep can be normalized, other things might improve, too.

 

We did try the Trazadone for sleep and it was a nightmare.  She took hours to fall asleep with much hysterical crying and then woke up 4 hours later. 



#110 Tiramisu

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Posted 06 October 2017 - 12:14 PM

We did try the Trazadone for sleep and it was a nightmare. She took hours to fall asleep with much hysterical crying and then woke up 4 hours later.


That's terrible. I hope you can find something that works for the sleep.

Any updates regarding a sleep study?

#111 Shellydon

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Posted 07 October 2017 - 03:50 AM

None of her doctors feel a sleep study is warranted. Prior to July 14 she slept 10 to 12 hours a night. I'm starting to have some significant health problems from not sleeping. My doctor fussed at me this week for it. My sleep band says I am up an average of 14 times a night.

#112 ktgrok

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Posted 07 October 2017 - 08:06 AM

And I may have forgotten but is she seeing an actual psychiatrist or just her pediatrician?

#113 AngieW in Texas

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Posted 07 October 2017 - 08:14 AM

For what it's worth, and this is only our experience, that was the exact sequence of meds that were tried on our dd to no avail.  The prozac actually increased the heck out of her anxiety, which, apparently, can happen.  So she was put on an SNRI as the SSRI's didn't help and it is definitely helping.  Effexor is what she is on.  She is also on a beta blocker to take as needed which helps as well.

This is what my youngest experienced as well with Prozac (which worked well on my other two kids). Lexapro is what worked for my youngest. While it is considered an SSRI also, it uses a different mechanism.


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#114 AngieW in Texas

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Posted 07 October 2017 - 08:35 AM

Update-- sleep is still impossible and this mom is exhausted.  Klonopin helps her sleep a about 5-6 hours, but gives her a stomach ache and headache the next day.  Valium works for 3 hours.  Her doctor has suggested Trazadone.  I am really worried about the interaction between Trazadone and Prozac though. 

Trazadone is the miracle drug my youngest been on for 7 years now. Unless A is sick, 3/4 of the smallest dose tablet (50mg) is still all that is needed. When sick, A takes a full 50 mg tablet. We have to watch for drug interaction too because there are cautions about using trazodone with lexapro, but adding lexapro made a major quality of life improvement. We started off lexapro at the lowest dose and increased gradually to watch out for seratonin sickness.


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#115 Lizzie in Ma

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Posted 08 October 2017 - 07:22 AM

Update-- DD13 has been on Prozac for about a week.  She is responding very well to it and has improved considerably.  She still says her heart feels funny/fluttery 5-10 times each day, but is able to cope.  Our only really issue is sleep.  She is taking 6 mg of Melatonin at night and is able to fall asleep fairly quickly as long as mom or dad is sitting with her.  She is waking up in the night though and cannot fall back to sleep for 2 hours or so.  She is tired (and mom is tired).  She has tried Valium before bed with no luck.  Doctor suggested Klonopin. Not sure what we'll do yet.

 

I am glad to hear the Prozac is helping.  My dd is on a beta blocker and does fine on it even though her bp generally runs low and it helps.  She takes Trazodone at night and it really helps her to sleep.  melatonin did nothing


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#116 Lizzie in Ma

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Posted 08 October 2017 - 07:24 AM

Update-- sleep is still impossible and this mom is exhausted.  Klonopin helps her sleep a about 5-6 hours, but gives her a stomach ache and headache the next day.  Valium works for 3 hours.  Her doctor has suggested Trazadone.  I am really worried about the interaction between Trazadone and Prozac though. 

 

DD took both and did fine on them as she took her prozac in the morning and the trazodone was at night.  She still takes it now but with effexor.
 



#117 Lizzie in Ma

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Posted 08 October 2017 - 07:25 AM

The guesswork of this is so frustrating.  Having no idea how a medication will affect your child is crazy making.  I worry so much about addiction of some of these drugs.  Also, when you look up the medications, all you find is horror stories.  Ugh.  I hate this.

 

:grouphug: :grouphug:  I feel you.



#118 ktgrok

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Posted 08 October 2017 - 07:29 AM

regarding trial and error this might help https://genesight.com



#119 Sandwalker

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Posted 08 October 2017 - 07:57 AM

Sorry your family is going through this. A couple of thoughts. (I don't know any background aside from this thread.) Is your daughter having any therapy? Psychiatrists today seem to be for the meds only; psychologist or therapist for the talking it out stuff.

Could anything bad have happened to her irl or online that she's afraid or hesitant to tell you? Because of the sudden and severe onset.

Second thought is about eating disorders, do you think she may have one? Some of her symptoms made me think of this.

I hope things get better for you all soon. I think that everyone calming down would help. Like when dd wakes up freaking out, keep the lights low, voices calm. Tell her she is young and healthy, that this is panic and it will go away. She can breathe calmly into her cupped hands for a couple of minutes to help with racing heart, and maybe some guided meditation before bedtime. Sometimes dads can help more than moms with acute panic, with their deep voices and quiet strength.

Best wishes to you all.

Edited by Sandwalker, 08 October 2017 - 07:58 AM.

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#120 Shellydon

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Posted 08 October 2017 - 10:11 AM

Sorry your family is going through this. A couple of thoughts. (I don't know any background aside from this thread.) Is your daughter having any therapy? Psychiatrists today seem to be for the meds only; psychologist or therapist for the talking it out stuff.

Could anything bad have happened to her irl or online that she's afraid or hesitant to tell you? Because of the sudden and severe onset.

Second thought is about eating disorders, do you think she may have one? Some of her symptoms made me think of this.

I hope things get better for you all soon. I think that everyone calming down would help. Like when dd wakes up freaking out, keep the lights low, voices calm. Tell her she is young and healthy, that this is panic and it will go away. She can breathe calmly into her cupped hands for a couple of minutes to help with racing heart, and maybe some guided meditation before bedtime. Sometimes dads can help more than moms with acute panic, with their deep voices and quiet strength.

Best wishes to you all.

 

Good thoughts, but no to both.  She is thin, but typically eats really well.  My kids do not have access to anything online other than email which I monitor.  No phones, no social media etc.   

We tried a therapist but DD hated it.  She generally is shy and does not want to talk to strangers plus the therapist could not figure out why DD was anxious when she had "perfect parents, no one bothering her, no issues causing the anxiety"  This is because she has generalized anxiety disorder, there doesn't have to be something causing it.  SO, I haven't found another therapist yet.  DH is in the hospital with heart issue so things are a wreck.


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#121 Shellydon

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Posted 08 October 2017 - 10:13 AM

And I may have forgotten but is she seeing an actual psychiatrist or just her pediatrician?

 

both, but her pediatrician is a much, much better doctor.



#122 hornblower

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Posted 08 October 2017 - 10:28 AM

YOu have so much on your plate right now. Sorry to hear about your dh being in hospital too. The stress levels must be getting pretty intense for all of you. 



totally weird hippy idea alert 

 

but.... does she like horses?  I mean it's not like they're the magic cure for everything, but sometimes, spending hours in a stable with horses (not just riding but actually being there with them) is so helpful to many people;  esp young girls, I think, can find a certain magic and strength inside themselves while being with horses.  Again, not really focused on riding lessons or competition or anything but just being with horses, doing a lesson, spending an afternoon cleaning around them.... 

Probably not like you have tons of time and money to hang around stables but if you're brainstorming for other things to change to try to change brain chemistry a bit, I just thought I'd throw that out. 

 

Are you guys doing CBT too? 


 


Edited by hornblower, 08 October 2017 - 10:28 AM.

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#123 Lizzie in Ma

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Posted 08 October 2017 - 11:11 AM

Good thoughts, but no to both.  She is thin, but typically eats really well.  My kids do not have access to anything online other than email which I monitor.  No phones, no social media etc.   

We tried a therapist but DD hated it.  She generally is shy and does not want to talk to strangers plus the therapist could not figure out why DD was anxious when she had "perfect parents, no one bothering her, no issues causing the anxiety"  This is because she has generalized anxiety disorder, there doesn't have to be something causing it.  SO, I haven't found another therapist yet.  DH is in the hospital with heart issue so things are a wreck.

 

Recently my dd's best friend has been attending her therapy sessions with her.  She just happened to be here when the therapist showed up and now it is a weekly thing.  The very first day this happened, dd was so much more forthcoming and open with her therapist.  I guess maybe she feels safer with her bff there and is more unguarded. We can't believe how much further dd has gotten in the two months of doing this in comparison to the 5 months beforehand of extremely guarded communication with her therapist.  Perhaps that might be on option?
 


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#124 Shellydon

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Posted 08 October 2017 - 11:18 AM

YOu have so much on your plate right now. Sorry to hear about your dh being in hospital too. The stress levels must be getting pretty intense for all of you. 



totally weird hippy idea alert 

 

but.... does she like horses?  I mean it's not like they're the magic cure for everything, but sometimes, spending hours in a stable with horses (not just riding but actually being there with them) is so helpful to many people;  esp young girls, I think, can find a certain magic and strength inside themselves while being with horses.  Again, not really focused on riding lessons or competition or anything but just being with horses, doing a lesson, spending an afternoon cleaning around them.... 

Probably not like you have tons of time and money to hang around stables but if you're brainstorming for other things to change to try to change brain chemistry a bit, I just thought I'd throw that out. 

 

Are you guys doing CBT too? 


 

 

Actually, for the past 2 years we have volunteered at a horse stable for children with disabilities.  We stopped this summer due to schedule conflicts, but started back up a month ago.  She gets to spend 2-3 hours each week with the horses.  It is helpful for sure.  I have yet to find a CBT therapist that is accepting new patients.


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#125 maize

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Posted 08 October 2017 - 11:36 AM

We do see a psychiatrist, but he has been much less helpful that her pediatrician. He is very cookie cutter. E.g., he wants to increase her Prozac dose to 40mg (from 20) because 'that is the standard dosage.' She is doing fine on the 20mg, has no side effects. Her pediatrician is much more willing to look at her as an individual. The standard dose for a teen her age and weight is actually 10 -20 mg, so increasing it does not make sense. I would LOVE to find a different psych doc, but there is no one else in my area accepting new patients that takes my insurance. A visit without insurance is $350 each time, and we just cannot swing that.


Are there any nurse practitioners who specialize in psychiatry? We go to one and he spends way more time with us and really tries to tailor things to our unique needs more than any psychiatrist I have been to.

#126 Sandwalker

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Posted 08 October 2017 - 12:10 PM

Good thoughts, but no to both. She is thin, but typically eats really well. My kids do not have access to anything online other than email which I monitor. No phones, no social media etc.
We tried a therapist but DD hated it. She generally is shy and does not want to talk to strangers plus the therapist could not figure out why DD was anxious when she had "perfect parents, no one bothering her, no issues causing the anxiety" This is because she has generalized anxiety disorder, there doesn't have to be something causing it. SO, I haven't found another therapist yet. DH is in the hospital with heart issue so things are a wreck.

Well of course she is worried about her heart with her dad in hospital with cardiac issues!
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#127 Shellydon

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Posted 08 October 2017 - 01:12 PM

Are there any nurse practitioners who specialize in psychiatry? We go to one and he spends way more time with us and really tries to tailor things to our unique needs more than any psychiatrist I have been to.

 

This is a good idea, I'll check.


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#128 scholastica

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Posted 08 October 2017 - 01:40 PM

Good thoughts, but no to both. She is thin, but typically eats really well. My kids do not have access to anything online other than email which I monitor. No phones, no social media etc.
We tried a therapist but DD hated it. She generally is shy and does not want to talk to strangers plus the therapist could not figure out why DD was anxious when she had "perfect parents, no one bothering her, no issues causing the anxiety" This is because she has generalized anxiety disorder, there doesn't have to be something causing it. SO, I haven't found another therapist yet. DH is in the hospital with heart issue so things are a wreck.


Who is taking care of YOU? Please get help with the other kids, the house, etc. Try to get someone else in to watch the kids so you can at least nap. You only have so much to give and your Dh and dd need you.
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#129 Sue in TX

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Posted 08 October 2017 - 02:22 PM

No, no naps. She does fine all day until she either lays down or had to sit really still. Co-op classes are challenging because she has to sit so still. She can't stop moving. Almost like restless leg syndrome.


Some of your daughter's symptoms do in fact match my son's symptoms that have improved with gabapentin and a diagnosis of restless leg syndrome. My son has most definitely also has periodic issues with panic attacks and anxiety too. He could not sleep for more than a minute or two until we tried gabapentin at the recommendation of our pediatric neurologist.


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#130 hornblower

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Posted 08 October 2017 - 02:32 PM

Actually, for the past 2 years we have volunteered at a horse stable for children with disabilities.  We stopped this summer due to schedule conflicts, but started back up a month ago.  She gets to spend 2-3 hours each week with the horses.  It is helpful for sure.  I have yet to find a CBT therapist that is accepting new patients.


There is an online CBT program that was recommended to my family by several different practitioners. Run out of an Australian university I think... 

Mood Gym.  used to be free but now it's a nominal yearly fee https://moodgym.com.au/


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#131 Jean in Newcastle

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Posted 08 October 2017 - 02:48 PM

Some of your daughter's symptoms do in fact match my son's symptoms that have improved with gabapentin and a diagnosis of restless leg syndrome. My son has most definitely also has periodic issues with panic attacks and anxiety too. He could not sleep for more than a minute or two until we tried gabapentin at the recommendation of our pediatric neurologist.


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This was my experience as well and why I suggested a neurologist.

#132 Selkie

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Posted 08 October 2017 - 02:49 PM

totally weird hippy idea alert 

 

but.... does she like horses?  I mean it's not like they're the magic cure for everything, but sometimes, spending hours in a stable with horses (not just riding but actually being there with them) is so helpful to many people;  esp young girls, I think, can find a certain magic and strength inside themselves while being with horses.  Again, not really focused on riding lessons or competition or anything but just being with horses, doing a lesson, spending an afternoon cleaning around them.... 

Probably not like you have tons of time and money to hang around stables but if you're brainstorming for other things to change to try to change brain chemistry a bit, I just thought I'd throw that out. 

 

Love this post. I know of several troubled kids whose lives were absolutely turned around by having a horse to care for and love.


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#133 Sandwalker

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Posted 08 October 2017 - 05:53 PM

There is an online CBT program that was recommended to my family by several different practitioners. Run out of an Australian university I think...

Mood Gym. used to be free but now it's a nominal yearly fee https://moodgym.com.au/

OooOo thanks for this info!
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#134 mom2samlibby

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Posted 08 October 2017 - 09:25 PM

Wow, big hugs to you.  You have so much on your plate right now.  I hope you have help!!!

 

I think I mentioned this before about magnesium, but I'll bring it up again.  With your husband's heart and your daughter's anxiety, you should read this book.  I know you probably don't have a lot of time right now for reading, but everything is addressed in this book -- anxiety, heart, leg cramps, lack of sleep.  I think it would help your family.  I've been taking magnesium now for a few months and I sleep so much better and am so much more relaxed during the day.  

 

https://www.amazon.c...n/dp/0399594442

 

 


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#135 Shellydon

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Posted 13 October 2017 - 11:16 PM

Wow, big hugs to you.  You have so much on your plate right now.  I hope you have help!!!

 

I think I mentioned this before about magnesium, but I'll bring it up again.  With your husband's heart and your daughter's anxiety, you should read this book.  I know you probably don't have a lot of time right now for reading, but everything is addressed in this book -- anxiety, heart, leg cramps, lack of sleep.  I think it would help your family.  I've been taking magnesium now for a few months and I sleep so much better and am so much more relaxed during the day.  

 

https://www.amazon.c...n/dp/0399594442

 

She takes a magnesium supplement called CALM daily.  She didn't take it for a few days due to travel and she and I did not notice any difference. 

 

 

On the rare occasion she can swallow a pill, then 5 mg time release melatonin works for her.  It is rare for her to be able to swallow a pill though, so she is up many, many hours every night. 



#136 Shellydon

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Posted 20 October 2017 - 12:12 PM

Just a quick update, we switched to Lexapro yesterday. Hoping for the best, assuming the worst.


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#137 fairfarmhand

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Posted 20 October 2017 - 12:33 PM

Would it help for her to know that recommended amounts of sleep are for over a period of 24 hours. This reassured me when I had small kids and interrupted sleep. I didn’t panic and get upset, making the night interruptions worse because I struggled to drop back off. So getting 4 hours at a time, split into 2 separate chunks was okay. I’d get up, fold some laundry and do quiet non screen activities until I felt I could drop back off.

So if her anxiety is related to not being able to fall asleep maybe that info would help.

I second cbt. My anxious kid has learned a lot about sort circuiting the anxiety loop.


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#138 Shellydon

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Posted 08 November 2017 - 05:09 PM

Things are still the same.  A trial of Lexapro was a total bust.  I have spent hours on the phone trying to find a psychiatrist to see her. 



#139 Sadie

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Posted 08 November 2017 - 05:25 PM

Things are still the same.  A trial of Lexapro was a total bust.  I have spent hours on the phone trying to find a psychiatrist to see her. 

 

I'm so sorry >lexapro was a bust for one of mine, too. It's so frustrating trying to find the right treatment. 

 

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug: