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The 3Rs for Right Brained Learners?


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#1 mshanson3121

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Posted 06 August 2017 - 12:16 PM

What have you found that worked the best for your (very!) right brained learners for:

 

Spelling

Grammar/Writing

Math

 

 

I like the idea of just doing copywork/dictation for spelling/grammar, but is that sufficient for right brained students? Cross-posted this in the K-8 forum.



#2 OneStepAtATime

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Posted 06 August 2017 - 12:55 PM

With my kids, no.  It wasn't sufficient at all.  In fact, it was utterly useless.  They just do not learn that way.  In fact, with DD, she seemed to unlearn material when that was my only approach.  Now when other resources are incorporated that tap into her need for visual/spatial connection then copywork/dictation can be a useful support tool.  For my kids, though, strictly using copywork/dictation has never been and almost certainly never will be enough for anything to actually stick as a stand alone system.

 

What worked here?  First, approaching the material using many different tactics including visual, tactile, verbal, etc.  I use Barton Reading and Spelling coupled with Touch Type Read Spell plus Fix-It Grammar as my spines.  I also include some copywork/dictation (dictation is incorporated into both Touch Type Read Spell and Barton) but only as a supplement to what we are learning through the programs mentioned above.


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#3 OneStepAtATime

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Posted 06 August 2017 - 12:58 PM

But my kids are both dyslexic, they both have developmental vision issues (even though DS has perfect visual acuity) and DS has dysgraphia.  

 

What are your child's areas of strength and areas of weakness?  I find it usually works best to try and tap into areas of strength to support areas of weakness as well as making certain to also allow areas of strength to really shine and flow without getting bogged down by areas of weakness when possible.



#4 OhElizabeth

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Posted 06 August 2017 - 12:59 PM

Amazon.com: right brained children in a left brained world  There's a book that goes into this. 

 

What age are we talking about? Usually you're going to want to bring in some visualization, so spelling with visualization, writing with mindmapping, etc. Math is the most particular with kids.

 

If you find someone on the boards who seems to have a dc like yours, you can use google site search to see what they've done. So say you went wow, OhElizabeth's dd is a lot like my dc... and you want to know what I used for math... you could type "OhElizabeth math site:welltrainedmind.com" and see what pops up. Or you could search by a diagnosis plus a program, so like "ADHD MUS site:welltrainedmind.com" 

 

I do site searches a TON. You've got such a heritage stored up on the boards here of old posts. Like I might start with a program, find a person using it, and then rabbit trail what they did for other subjects. I'm planning to do that today for something, hehe. I started off researching one program, but a person's posts intrigued me and I'm going to go see what they did for other subjects. Sometimes you hit lucky like that. :)

 

As far as us, wow. Spelling we did dictation, grammar we used Shurley (brief, in/out), writing we did all kinds of things including quite a bit of narrative, analysis and mindmapping, a few programs, LOTS of reading of good essays to build in her head how mature writing looks. Math, um, lots of things over the years. Mostly conceptual, not spiral. She's not fast. She tends to turn off her brain if there's a lot of something.


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#5 OhElizabeth

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Posted 06 August 2017 - 01:14 PM

Adding: You know this, but it's not *what* we used but *how* we used it.

 

I'm not meaning to be trite there. I'm just saying, for real, that's the real answer. I can teach to my ds' strengths with ANYTHING now. Some things make it easier, like materials that are already organized in a way that gives me more tools or makes it easier for me. But the key is really to figure out how you can modify ANYTHING and make it work. *You* are the magic, not the curriculum.


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#6 mshanson3121

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Posted 06 August 2017 - 01:46 PM

My son is 10. He is a left eye, right hand, right brained dominant, phlegmatic child with sensory processing disorder (one of his biggest challenges is proprioceptive issues). He "appears'' to have dyspraxia, but he also seeing genetics next month for suspected Ehlers Danlos Syndrome due to his excessive joint hypermobility (among other issues), and lack of stability. So, whether he really has dyspraxia, or whether it's just due to his joints/proprioceptive issues, we're not sure.

 

Some of his life-related struggles:

 

- He struggles physically with writing (hand gets tired and has horrible grip and presses too hard), and other things like using a knife (struggles with putting enough pressure etc..)
- I suspect he has some motor planning issues, as he struggles with things like shoe tying, catching balls, putting on gloves (just can't get those fingers into the holes, lol), zippers on jackets are still sometimes a challenge to get lined up and going etc...

 

Some of his school-related struggles:

 

- Again, the writing. Now, he actually has very neat penmanship (print and cursive), but he struggles with output because it's tiring to him.
- He struggles with oral recall and narration. He does much better when he can write it out, or with your more typical workbook approaches (multiple choice, fill in the blanks, "essay" style answers etc...). After doing these questions he does a better job of narration, I think this is because it just helps to him to organize his thoughts.  He also can narrate better when allowed to draw or act it out. That said, he also doesn't like too many workbooks, because of all the writing.
- Struggles with any auditory based learning - he NEEDS to see it/read it for himself to really retain/get it.
- Horrible concept of time
- Struggles learning his math facts (and yet can learn his drama lines in one afternoon).
- Struggles with focus/attention with math
- Struggles some with problem solving/word problems with math (math is our Achilles heel here)

- Is a literal, black and white thinker. Does not learn well from "living books" (a la Charlotte Mason). He learns much better from text books, encyclopedias etc... He needs the information presented in a very clear format for him.

- He could care less about history. Not that this is a challenge, just more of a preference.

His strengths:

- He is an excellent reader - grasped phonics incredibly early/easily. In fact, we dropped phonics part way through grade 1 as they were unnecessary for him. He absolutely LOVES to read, and devours books. Spelling is good as well - he's very visual, so once he sees/writes a word a couple times, he has it. Grammar is fine - struggles some with using the proper past tense of words (been/gone etc...).
- He grasps math concepts very easily, especially the visual realms of math such as fractions, geometry etc... He easily learns new concepts, it's just turning around and remembering the math facts and figuring out the word problems to solve the questions that can be the issue. I think some of these math challenges are because I am just learning what a right brained/visual learner he is, and I haven't been properly supporting him. Over the years we have forced math on him so much: pushed it too hard, too soon, in ways that didn't meet his learning needs, and thus we have created a math-phobic/hating child, who actually does quite well at math.

- Loves art (has excellent drawing skills when he has a visual to look off of. He can do amazing replications of animated drawings etc... His freehand drawings could use some work).

- Loves music, and loves to sing. He's signed up for voice lessons this fall, as he has a beautiful singing voice, and easily memorizes songs, music etc...

- While not necessarily naturally talented in the "typical" sports  (though he enjoys them!) like basketball, soccer, baseball etc... he is a very skilled snowboarder and gymnast.

- Loves to "write" when there is no pressure - ex. he loves to do a morning journal where he can write whatever he wants, and can illustrate it.

- Is an extremely creative child. Honestly, it is amazing the Lego creations he can come up with just out of his head. He looks at a picture of something and then can build it. He's constantly turning things from around the house into creations of something or another. He loves to act things out, too. He has a wonderful imagination.

- Loves natural science. He has a fascination with birds and I call him my budding orinthologist, as he can correctly identify countless species. He is currently reading through a 750+ paged (adult level) encyclopedia of North American birds for fun. Likewise, he really loves anything to do with all animals, nature, etc... He isn't as interested in "typical" science topics such as physics, chemistry etc... That said, he loves to do science experiments.

- Likes typing

 

So, I think that gives an overview!
 

We really, really burned out last year. Mostly just because too many years of pushing the wrong curriculum, of pushing pedagogy that isn't really a fit for him, of not really working with his learning style (to be fair, I didn't really have a good understanding of it at the time), and he just grew to hate school. So, I am really trying to discern the direction we should go this year, and what we should use etc...  I asked him what would make the year better for him and he told me: "More science experiments, more art and fun math". 


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#7 OneStepAtATime

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Posted 06 August 2017 - 02:49 PM

I want to mention a couple of specific targeted things then go on in my next post to some general suggestions on things that might make this a better year.  

 

With the writing struggles I would look for information on dysgraphia.  Whatever the underlying cause, he has difficulty with writing.  Have you looked into speech to text software?  Not for everything.  I think its awesome that he has good penmanship and likes to write journals.  But for getting his thoughts onto paper without wearing completely out then speech to text software may help.  Also, continue the typing and maybe slowly get into more targeted assignments using typing as his output medium.

 

Also, I would like to mention that learning lines for drama is not processed the same way as memorizing math facts so it isn't surprising to me that your son can do one well and not the other.  They aren't equivalent.  For example, DS can remember anything narratively based incredibly accurately after only very brief exposure.  He has been able to do that since he was tiny.  Math facts?  That is a struggle.  They process differently.  DD can remember drama lines well if she has lots of repetition with someone else reading the other lines and she is moving.  Math facts?  No.  They have been hard to acquire (although the targeted review used in CLE with their specific flash card and drill system has helped).

 

 


Edited by OneStepAtATime, 06 August 2017 - 02:49 PM.


#8 okbud

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Posted 06 August 2017 - 02:54 PM

Getitdone getitdone getitdone

I say again: get it done. Straightforward work with NO extras and no aspirations to being "fun"

... Followed by hours and hours per week of things that are actually fun. Board games card games physical games wordplay video games animated conversations...

And enough free time alone to explore whatever h wants to explore.

Seriously. My best advice is not to try to make school fun or perfect for him. It's to pinpoint the exact minimum amount of school for him right now, do that, then play.

"Playing" is annoying to me personally. I'd rather have a wonderful, long day of school. My 8 year old, though? He's not on board.
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#9 OneStepAtATime

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Posted 06 August 2017 - 03:23 PM

So right now, he is burned out and apparently hating academics, and probably you are kind of burned out too?   I would make shifting that dynamic that my priority.   Beyond anything else I would be seeking to reignite a love of learning in general.  He enjoys reading, journaling, art and natural science, among other things.  That's awesome.  There is a lot to work with there.  Why not make this a more interest led year?  As OkBud said, just get 'er done on straight academics.  Short lessons.  Bare bones.  Then let him explore his areas of interest/skills/etc. as much as he wants in whatever medium he wants.  And for academics you could try to tie things into his areas of interest.  He's only 10.  He has time for the nitty gritty drudgery of life later.  Help ignite his passions while keeping academics short and sweet.

 

  1. Handwriting.  If you want to keep up handwriting practice, let him pick out a quote/fact from people or subjects he would like to learn more about and start a collection of quotes he writes out.  Or maybe find a handwriting book with a theme he has an interest in.  I know there are some that are Star Wars themed or Sports themed, etc.
  2. Grammar.  If you feel you have to have a formal grammar program, look at Fix-It Grammar.  Very short lessons.  Do them together, sitting side by side.  Less than 15 minutes a day, 4 days a week.  Material is introduced incredibly gently.  Give the placement test since this is an area of strength for him.  
  3. Spelling.  Personally I would not really do a formal spelling program right now if he picks up spelling very quickly from reading and writing.  Drop this for now.  If you want at least something for spelling and he likes typing, maybe something like Touch Type Read Spell since it reinforces all of those skills (including gently introduced typing dictation).  Lessons are very short.  Keep him focused on proper finger placement and accuracy, not speed.
  4. Writing.  He struggles with getting his thoughts marshaled but he likes to write out his thoughts to get them organized.  However, the physical act of handwriting exhausts him.  Take a break from formal writing lessons at the moment.  Let him write in his journals and maybe write up science experiments, etc. but table formal writing lessons for the moment.  There is time for more formal lessons later.  And look into speech to text software.
  5. Math Concepts.  For a fun math program that is more math concepts than math fact focused, have you looked at Beast Academy?  If he grasps math concepts well then he might like Beast.  The goal with Beast is learning how to think about math, not getting the right answer and moving on.  Let him use a math chart for math facts while he digs into Beast.  See how he does.  Take it slow and do the problems together.  Discuss.  Think.  Ponder.  And do a lot of math related fun games.
  6. Math Facts. For math facts, work on those separately through manipulatives and math games and maybe Prodigy math?  Work on math facts as a separate thing, done briefly each day.  Short lessons.  Also put some focus in on skip counting.  I can say with certainty that being able to skip count quickly to get to a fact can be almost as fast as being able to recall a rote memorized math fact.  Target only certain facts until mastery, then do bi-weekly review while you move on to another math fact.  For regular math lessons let him create a math chart at the beginning of each week using skip counting then use that chart during actual lessons.  Let him run with the concepts without getting overwhelmed and bogged down in math fact struggles.
  7. Science.  Let him run with science in any way that he wants.  Find resources that really speak to his passions in science.  Keep this interest led.
  8. History. DD has no sense of the passage of time.  No natural time line exists in her head.  I think this directly affected how she perceived history and she hated it.  But she is very creative and she loves artistic, creative things.  She took a very hands on, creative art history class on line.  She learned how to hand make and bind a book.  She learned how to create a shadow mobile.  She learned the process for making paper.  Etc.  And all of this was tied into the history of not only these things but the historical context in which they came to be created.  It helped her to finally connect with history in a very tactile, creative way.  Things finally made sense.  That time line finally seems to exist in her head.  She can see the tapestry that is history much better now.  And she has loved it.  She has continued to take many art history courses.  You might look into some light, simple art history courses.  There are some that are DVD based that might be easy to implement and fun, too.  But I wouldn't stress over this right now.  If history is something your son is really resisting right now, take a break.  Return to this further down the road.

Gotta run but I will try and add more later.  Good luck.


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#10 mshanson3121

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Posted 06 August 2017 - 03:46 PM

Adding some of my questions and thoughts in your original post :)

 

 

 

  1. Handwriting.  If you want to keep up handwriting practice, let him pick out a quote/fact from people or subjects he would like to learn more about and start a collection of quotes he writes out.  Or maybe find a handwriting book with a theme he has an interest in.  I know there are some that are Star Wars themed or Sports themed, etc.
  2. Grammar.  If you feel you have to have a formal grammar program, look at Fix-It Grammar.  Very short lessons.  Do them together, sitting side by side.  Less than 15 minutes a day, 4 days a week.  Material is introduced incredibly gently.  Give the placement test since this is an area of strength for him.  
  3. Spelling.  Personally I would not really do a formal spelling program right now if he picks up spelling very quickly from reading and writing.  Drop this for now.  If you want at least something for spelling and he likes typing, maybe something like Touch Type Read Spell since it reinforces all of those skills (including gently introduced typing dictation).  Lessons are very short.  Keep him focused on proper finger placement and accuracy, not speed.

I had wondered about doing copywork/dictation for these. I found a copywork set that was all about birds (based off the Burgess Bird Book), and even included a space to draw a bird on it. I thought that might interest him. I definitely do NOT feel the need for a formal grammar program this year. I plan on using Winston Grammar at some point, but probably not until next year.

 

  1. Math Concepts.  For a fun math program that is more math concepts than math fact focused, have you looked at Beast Academy?  If he grasps math concepts well then he might like Beast.  The goal with Beast is learning how to think about math, not getting the right answer and moving on.  Let him use a math chart for math facts while he digs into Beast.  See how he does.  Take it slow and do the problems together.  Discuss.  Think.  Ponder.  And do a lot of math related fun games.

I have looked into Beast Academy. I'm honestly not sure on it. On one hand I think he would love it - it's fun, silly, visual etc... On the other hand, is it too much of a "living book"? Is the information taught in a very straight forward manner, or does he sort of have to pick it out, from the story line? He needs very direct, black and white instruction.

  1. Math Facts. For math facts, work on those separately through manipulatives and math games and maybe Prodigy math?

He loves online math games etc... so I could see an online resource for math facts working well. And in fact, he really doesn't even mind speed drills. We came from a couple years of CLE which he really grew to hate, because it was too much review of concepts he already knew, with too many math problems involving facts he hadn't memorized (though in hind sight - perhaps I should have let him use the math fact chart to help him with the lesson?). He just found the lessons REALLY long, and he would get really distracted doing them, and it would end up taking him 45+ minutes, by which point he was exhausted. I love their math program, and would love to still be using it. But would really need to find a way to make it work for us, and I'm not sure if there is one? Thoughts?

  1. Science.  Let him run with science in any way that he wants.  Find resources that really speak to his passions in science.  Keep this interest led.

Definitely. He's good at this. On his own he loves to read books about things that interest him. I thought of getting a subscription to the Young Scientist Club, so we could do experiments etc... Or perhaps even Jay Wile's science books (he loved the looks of the science journal you can download that goes along with them). I had also found a really neat resource - it was a free reading comprehension program that follows the Burgess Animal book, which has reading comp worksheets, but then also blank notebooking pages to do further animal research.

  1. History. DD has no sense of the passage of time.  No natural time line exists in her head.  I think this directly affected how she perceived history and she hated it.  But she is very creative and she loves artistic, creative things.  She took a very hands on, creative art history class on line.  She learned how to hand make and bind a book.  She learned how to create a shadow mobile.  She learned the process for making paper.  Etc.  And all of this was tied into the history of not only these things but the historical context in which they came to be created.  It helped her to finally connect with history in a very tactile, creative way.  Things finally made sense.  That time line finally seems to exist in her head.  She can see the tapestry that is history much better now.  And she has loved it.  She has continued to take many art history courses.  You might look into some light, simple art history courses.  There are some that are DVD based that might be easy to implement and fun, too.  But I wouldn't stress over this right now.  If history is something your son is really resisting right now, take a break.  Return to this further down the road.

I laughed so hard about the "natural timeline in her head". Yup. That is my son, lol. I am considering approaching history through science and art, as well. Again, I thought perhaps the Jay Wile science book (Science in the Ancient World) since it definitely incorporates some history. I was also looking at the Ever Ancient, Ever New Art History program from Catholic Heritage Curriculum. We also own the book Vincent's Starry Night, which is a story approach to art history.

 

 


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#11 mshanson3121

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Posted 06 August 2017 - 04:17 PM

del

 


Edited by mshanson3121, 06 August 2017 - 04:24 PM.


#12 OneStepAtATime

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Posted 06 August 2017 - 06:35 PM

Posted Today, 03:46 PM

 

Quote: mshanson3121

Adding some of my questions and thoughts in your original post  :)

 

 

OneStepAtATime, on 06 Aug 2017 - 3:23 PM, said:snapback.png

 

  1. Handwriting.  If you want to keep up handwriting practice, let him pick out a quote/fact from people or subjects he would like to learn more about and start a collection of quotes he writes out.  Or maybe find a handwriting book with a theme he has an interest in.  I know there are some that are Star Wars themed or Sports themed, etc.
  2. Grammar.  If you feel you have to have a formal grammar program, look at Fix-It Grammar.  Very short lessons.  Do them together, sitting side by side.  Less than 15 minutes a day, 4 days a week.  Material is introduced incredibly gently.  Give the placement test since this is an area of strength for him.  
  3. Spelling.  Personally I would not really do a formal spelling program right now if he picks up spelling very quickly from reading and writing.  Drop this for now.  If you want at least something for spelling and he likes typing, maybe something like Touch Type Read Spell since it reinforces all of those skills (including gently introduced typing dictation).  Lessons are very short.  Keep him focused on proper finger placement and accuracy, not speed.

I had wondered about doing copywork/dictation for these. I found a copywork set that was all about birds (based off the Burgess Bird Book), and even included a space to draw a bird on it. I thought that might interest him. I definitely do NOT feel the need for a formal grammar program this year. I plan on using Winston Grammar at some point, but probably not until next year.

 

  1. Math Concepts.  For a fun math program that is more math concepts than math fact focused, have you looked at Beast Academy?  If he grasps math concepts well then he might like Beast.  The goal with Beast is learning how to think about math, not getting the right answer and moving on.  Let him use a math chart for math facts while he digs into Beast.  See how he does.  Take it slow and do the problems together.  Discuss.  Think.  Ponder.  And do a lot of math related fun games.

I have looked into Beast Academy. I'm honestly not sure on it. On one hand I think he would love it - it's fun, silly, visual etc... On the other hand, is it too much of a "living book"? Is the information taught in a very straight forward manner, or does he sort of have to pick it out, from the story line? He needs very direct, black and white instruction.

  1. Math Facts. For math facts, work on those separately through manipulatives and math games and maybe Prodigy math?

He loves online math games etc... so I could see an online resource for math facts working well. And in fact, he really doesn't even mind speed drills. We came from a couple years of CLE which he really grew to hate, because it was too much review of concepts he already knew, with too many math problems involving facts he hadn't memorized (though in hind sight - perhaps I should have let him use the math fact chart to help him with the lesson?). He just found the lessons REALLY long, and he would get really distracted doing them, and it would end up taking him 45+ minutes, by which point he was exhausted. I love their math program, and would love to still be using it. But would really need to find a way to make it work for us, and I'm not sure if there is one? Thoughts?

  1. Science.  Let him run with science in any way that he wants.  Find resources that really speak to his passions in science.  Keep this interest led.

Definitely. He's good at this. On his own he loves to read books about things that interest him. I thought of getting a subscription to the Young Scientist Club, so we could do experiments etc... Or perhaps even Jay Wile's science books (he loved the looks of the science journal you can download that goes along with them). I had also found a really neat resource - it was a free reading comprehension program that follows the Burgess Animal book, which has reading comp worksheets, but then also blank notebooking pages to do further animal research.

  1. History. DD has no sense of the passage of time.  No natural time line exists in her head.  I think this directly affected how she perceived history and she hated it.  But she is very creative and she loves artistic, creative things.  She took a very hands on, creative art history class on line.  She learned how to hand make and bind a book.  She learned how to create a shadow mobile.  She learned the process for making paper.  Etc.  And all of this was tied into the history of not only these things but the historical context in which they came to be created.  It helped her to finally connect with history in a very tactile, creative way.  Things finally made sense.  That time line finally seems to exist in her head.  She can see the tapestry that is history much better now.  And she has loved it.  She has continued to take many art history courses.  You might look into some light, simple art history courses.  There are some that are DVD based that might be easy to implement and fun, too.  But I wouldn't stress over this right now.  If history is something your son is really resisting right now, take a break.  Return to this further down the road.

I laughed so hard about the "natural timeline in her head". Yup. That is my son, lol. I am considering approaching history through science and art, as well. Again, I thought perhaps the Jay Wile science book (Science in the Ancient World) since it definitely incorporates some history. I was also looking at the Ever Ancient, Ever New Art History program from Catholic Heritage Curriculum. We also own the book Vincent's Starry Night, which is a story approach to art history.

 

 

Sorry for the goofy formatting above.  I was trying to quote you but your post was embedded in mine so I had to paste/copy.  My current post in response is below.  

 

O.k. I have a moment.  I will try to address some things above.   :)

 

Spelling:  I was concerned that since handwriting wears him down copywork/dictation might be a bad idea if the goal is to reinvigorate his love of learning BUT I love the resources you are looking at and your more detailed posts after your first one speaks to me.  I say try it out.  If it works, great.  If not, there are other ways to approach this.  You can even drop spelling altogether for now if it becomes necessary.

 

Math Concepts:  While Beast is presented through cartoon, it is not just a story line or fun and games or a light weight program.  It is more explicit  in instruction than you might think, but it is very different from most math programs out there.  The approach is to have the main book present the "story" and concepts then the meat of the program is in the practice workbook.  It teaches a student to think about math, not just get the right answer.  In fact, the goal is not to get to the right answer and move on.  It is to think through HOW and WHY and WHICH WAYS, etc.  Why not buy 3A and do the program together.  Just a little at a time until you see if it will be a good fit.  Use it as a supplement for now.  Read through the main book, then pick just a couple of problems and work them out together each day.  Don't rush through.  Let him savor the math program and see how he does.  If he hits a problem he can't solve in one day, that's o.k.  Come at it again the next day.  Honestly, some of these problems I couldn't figure out right away.  I had to think about them.  Once I wrapped my head around that it was actually fun to figure things out.  I'm awful at math but I learned a lot from Beast.  

 

CLE:  Yes, he should have been using his math reference chart.  The CLE approach is based on the assumption that most students will not immediately memorize math facts.  They provide very targeted, specialized review (did you use their schedule and their flash cards and drills?) of math facts but separately from the main lesson.  During the main lesson the math chart can be utilized whenever needed so the student can focus on really nailing the concepts and algorithms.  Also, not everyone needs the amount of review built in to CLE.  Modify it to fit your own child's needs.  

 

If for any reason you decided to return to CLE I recommend the following:

  • Get the math reference charts and the CLE flashcards.  Practice math facts separately from the lesson, maybe as a short warm up in the morning before breakfast with the main lesson after breakfast.  He uses the chart during lessons.
  • Give the placement test to see where he currently is.
  • Cross out review of problems he already knows well.  There is a TON of review in this program so those concepts and algorithms will come up again.
  • Do the new material on a dry erase board together then have him try out a couple of the new problems from the workbook with you.  The TM has board work suggestions.
  • If he really gets bored with all the review you could also compress the material.  Do new material from two lessons and do select review problems from the second lesson only.  Skip quizzes.  Just do the tests at the end.

Anyway, you may not want to return to CLE but I though I would mention what worked here.   :)

 

Science and history sound great!  I hope you will post updates at some point with how that goes.  I like your plans.


Edited by OneStepAtATime, 06 August 2017 - 06:37 PM.

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#13 mshanson3121

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Posted 06 August 2017 - 07:36 PM

 

Posted Today, 03:46 PM

 

Quote: mshanson3121

Adding some of my questions and thoughts in your original post  :)

 

 

OneStepAtATime, on 06 Aug 2017 - 3:23 PM, said:snapback.png

 

Sorry for the goofy formatting above.  I was trying to quote you but your post was embedded in mine so I had to paste/copy.  My current post in response is below.  

 

O.k. I have a moment.  I will try to address some things above.   :)

 

Spelling:  I was concerned that since handwriting wears him down copywork/dictation might be a bad idea if the goal is to reinvigorate his love of learning BUT I love the resources you are looking at and your more detailed posts after your first one speaks to me.  I say try it out.  If it works, great.  If not, there are other ways to approach this.  You can even drop spelling altogether for now if it becomes necessary.

 

Math Concepts:  While Beast is presented through cartoon, it is not just a story line or fun and games or a light weight program.  It is more explicit  in instruction than you might think, but it is very different from most math programs out there.  The approach is to have the main book present the "story" and concepts then the meat of the program is in the practice workbook.  It teaches a student to think about math, not just get the right answer.  In fact, the goal is not to get to the right answer and move on.  It is to think through HOW and WHY and WHICH WAYS, etc.  Why not buy 3A and do the program together.  Just a little at a time until you see if it will be a good fit.  Use it as a supplement for now.  Read through the main book, then pick just a couple of problems and work them out together each day.  Don't rush through.  Let him savor the math program and see how he does.  If he hits a problem he can't solve in one day, that's o.k.  Come at it again the next day.  Honestly, some of these problems I couldn't figure out right away.  I had to think about them.  Once I wrapped my head around that it was actually fun to figure things out.  I'm awful at math but I learned a lot from Beast.  

 

CLE:  Yes, he should have been using his math reference chart.  The CLE approach is based on the assumption that most students will not immediately memorize math facts.  They provide very targeted, specialized review (did you use their schedule and their flash cards and drills?) of math facts but separately from the main lesson.  During the main lesson the math chart can be utilized whenever needed so the student can focus on really nailing the concepts and algorithms.  Also, not everyone needs the amount of review built in to CLE.  Modify it to fit your own child's needs.  

 

If for any reason you decided to return to CLE I recommend the following:

  • Get the math reference charts and the CLE flashcards.  Practice math facts separately from the lesson, maybe as a short warm up in the morning before breakfast with the main lesson after breakfast.  He uses the chart during lessons.
  • Give the placement test to see where he currently is.
  • Cross out review of problems he already knows well.  There is a TON of review in this program so those concepts and algorithms will come up again.
  • Do the new material on a dry erase board together then have him try out a couple of the new problems from the workbook with you.  The TM has board work suggestions.
  • If he really gets bored with all the review you could also compress the material.  Do new material from two lessons and do select review problems from the second lesson only.  Skip quizzes.  Just do the tests at the end.

Anyway, you may not want to return to CLE but I though I would mention what worked here.   :)

 

Science and history sound great!  I hope you will post updates at some point with how that goes.  I like your plans.

 

 

Thank you! It sounds like Beast may be good for helping him think think more about the math problems. Though I love how open and go CLE is, and how he can use it independently. Something to think about anyways. We're on a tight budget too, so that doesn't help.
 


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#14 OneStepAtATime

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Posted 06 August 2017 - 08:03 PM

nm


 


Edited by OneStepAtATime, 06 August 2017 - 08:04 PM.

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#15 OhElizabeth

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Posted 06 August 2017 - 08:22 PM

This is just sort of a big picture reply, but I want to say your approach seems very good! You're really good at finding specific materials that will interest your ds and work with him, not against him. It IS really hard, and it takes time. 

 

Sometimes I thwack myself, like hey could I have done this a little simpler... kwim? But I think the more peculiar the dc, the more issues they're dealing with, the more that customization really fits. The more flexible the dc, the more resources they have to bend and say ok I can work on this lots of ways. 

 

I don't think you'll regret that amount of customization, not with these particular kids. It's just a lot of work, which is fatiguing. 


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#16 kbutton

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Posted 07 August 2017 - 06:41 PM

OP, I have a couple of recommendations, but I like the direction you are going yourself. 

 

Spelling--Sequential Spelling with typed lists. It's pattern-based. You might want to start with him picturing words on a whiteboard in his head, and then start typing. I will warn you that the first book is the hardest in some respects (lots of ordinary words that are quirky spellings), but my kids like that this is a get it done curriculum. I have seen it translate to spelling in context more than anything else we've done for spelling.

 

Handwriting--go for automaticity and legibility and just type everything you can. Keep copywork to a bare minimum, but do it daily. My son does very short handwriting selections and barely has enough steam left for writing during math. I scribe a lot. We do a lot of things orally. My son has a different connective tissue disorder that causes arachnodactyly. His fingers are literally too long proportionally for his hand, plus they are hypermobile. They are great piano hands though! ;-) 

 

This company's resources might interest you for writing concepts, though if what you are doing is working, it sounds like a good way to build toward narrating (some kids need lots of steps!). We have not used these, but I think they are in our future for my older son (ASD). They have several tools with a similar format but different applications. https://mindwingconc...-grammar-marker

 

We have used a similar program with a speech therapist, which I've linked here. It's not for narration as much as description, categorizing, expanding on a concept, etc. https://www.expandin...xpression.com/ 

 

I know someone that uses Jay Wile's science in the beginning series and loves it! 

 

Grammar--I think Winston is worth a try when you are ready. We have successfully used Michael Clay Thompson's program as well as Daily Grams from Easy Grammar. MCT grammar gets the concepts out up front, and then they work through a sentence workbook where they take the sentence apart. Just a sentence a day, basically. We use the Daily Grams as a way to work on mechanics because my kids need more of that kind of grammar than what is in the MCT books. 

 

Math--we use Singapore here. Primary Mathematics, US edition. It has great problem solving strategies, and if you want a supplement just for problem-solving but don't want to do Singapore, you might try Fan Math Process Skills in Problem Solving from Singapore math . It teaches bar diagrams, which are very visual. I would also recommend taking a peak at the Nasco Math catalog for K-12. It has lots of games. They also have a lot of manipulatives if your son likes those.

 

Have you considered doing lots of factoring, multiples, etc. to learn math facts? You can factor all kinds of fun ways, and it leads to a lot of number theory discussion. For some fun ways to factor that don't require writing, you might check out educationunboxed.com. You could potentially do something like factoring as a daily warm-up. My kids do better building their math facts through number sense and then using a math table for facts. Eventually the facts start to stick. 


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#17 emzhengjiu

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 10:02 AM

Be civil 
Don't attack another poster's background, religious convictions, experience, or parenting style. Above all, resist the one-liner subject-header put-down. Nasty cracks will be deleted.

 

The OP asked for help.  Please restrict posts to her request.



#18 OneStepAtATime

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 11:45 AM

To clarify for those who are reading and not understanding the moderator's end post, many posts have now been deleted.  I assume the posts that were allowed to remain are not what is being referred to.  


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