Would you find this odd? Maybe a bit disturbing? Normal?

[38carrots]

We went for a hike with another family that I don't know very well--a mom in her 40s and her 10 year old son. Things that striked me as a bit odd:

 

1. When my kids and her DS were swimming / playing in the lake together and she lost track of them (I didn't), she said that her DS was probably near "the girls." There was a group of older teenage girls in bikinis, splashing and laughing. She added that he was quite the ladies man and would typically flirt with older girls. She said this kind of proudly, but also matter of factly. She said that he used to have  a girlfriend, adding, "I don't know what they did, but the did go to the movies together." And that children in her culture (warm climate around the Mediterranean Sea) emotionally mature very early.

 

2. She openly discussed her being on a diet with him--what she was eating, and what she was not, that she was hungry, etc. Her DS told me proudly that she lost 10lb in the last week.

 

3. When we were talking about average heights (my DS is short for his age, while my DD is tall for her age), she said that there's a girl in her DS's class who was very tall and had huge BOOKS and she gestured to show. While her DS was a part of the conversation.

 

I quite liked her before this outing, and my kids enjoyed playing with her DS (my two are about the same age--one a year younger, the other 2 years older.) But I was a bit put off by this. When I talk about food to my kids I always talk about feeling healthy, feeling strong--not in terms of losing weight and feeling hungry / being on a diet. I would not talk about a girl in terms of her BOOKS, kwim. I am not quite sure now of her judgement and wouldn't want this boy around my kids. Am I being too cautious? Too biased?

 

 

 

 

[Liz CA]

Seems their lives are centering around different things than yours.

[lauraw4321]

All three things are not things that fit within my family culture, but none are huge red flags or deal breakers or friendship breakers for me.

[Mergath]

She sounds a bit immature but none of it sends up any red flags for me.

[fraidycat]

None of those sound like deal/frienship breakers to me. Anything she said around my kids that I didn't like, I'd use as teaching moments later with them, on the drive home or at home.

[Julie Smith]

She sounds a bit strange. But I'm a bit strange. 

 

The one thing that would bother me is losing track of him in the lake. I HATE when people don't keep a good watch on their kids when in open water. One, of a few reasons I'm not at a cottage with everyone this week is that those adults don't keep an eye on their kids near open water. I find the whole situation stressful. I have had a few of those adults wondering where a child was when said child was only 5ish and not a good swimmer. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

Not that odd. #1 and 3 are different values than those in our family but not red flags per se. #2 - I find your reaction more odd, to tell you the truth. But food and diets aren't a big hot button thing in our family. Sometimes people go on diets and feel hungry while doing so.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jewellsmommy]

1 and 2 don't phase me much. 3 is a bit bothersome, but I wouldn't be put-off enough to never see them again if all else was fine.

[IsabelC]

Number 1, I would find very strange and feel a little uncomfortable, but maybe that is reflective of her culture?

Number 2, I would certainly not talk in that way, we are very body positive in my family, and I wouldn't dream of even going on a diet, let alone allowing my kids to know about it if I did. But people vary a lot, and I don't think it's that uncommon.

Number 3, I don't find particularly strange at all. I probably wouldn't say it myself, but I don't think it's an unreasonable comment to make, given the context of a conversation about how various kids are more or less developed for their age.


As far as future interactions with this family go, I guess it depends on both how much these things bother you, and how frequently they occur. Is this how most of the woman's conversation goes, or were those the only three occasions you felt uncomfortable, with hundreds of other remarks in between that you didn't find weird?

Edited July 27, 2017 by IsabelC

[gardenmom5]

I would find it odd and off-putting.  not someone who strikes me as ready for motherhood.

[rose]

#1 and #3 would bother me and I would probably not want my ds around their ds without really close supervision. Frankly, I'd be concerned that he would discuss sexually illicit stuff with him. You may think that all boys talk about this sort of stuff but I'm pretty sure that my boy doesn't and I hope that he never does. I like him pure.

#2 I talk about this sort of stuff with my dc all the time. They're my friends and I tend to be quite open and honest with them about my feelings.

[Paige]

Sounds like she's just from a different culture than yours.

[MaeFlowers]

I don't really find any of it unusual. That said, if it makes you uncomfortable, she might not be your people. That's okay, too.

[Guest]

Sounds very much like some cultures I am familiar with.  Just different.

 

[HSmomof2]

Agree a little different but nothing that shocking. I'm currently trying to lose weight. My kids know it and are my biggest encouragers. It's obvious I'm overweight, and affects my daily life. Though I'm framing it positively I think.....my focus on losing weight is to get healthier and feel better. I exercise to get stronger. They see me adopting a healthier lifestyle. I don't think this is harmful to my dc.....I hope not. 😳

[Arctic Bunny]

I wouldn't have to worry about it because DS12 would have died of embarrassment at #1 and #3 and both of those would have gone over DS10's head. We would have discussed #2 afterwards. If the mom was visibly overweight, I suppose we would talk about how I hoped she was going about losing weight in a healthy way, etc. If she was not visibly overweight, then I guess we would have talked about that, too. And hopefully in the moment I would have said something about how she didn't look like she needed to lose weight.

[KungFuPanda]

My kids and I would find your version of food talk and hers a bit strange. Either take would feel awkward and trying-too-hard to us. Not my style, but neither seems like something that can harm my kids in any way. They know that different households do things different ways. They're not going to get weird about food because some mom mentioned a diet.

[katilac]

#1 I don't like much, but it's very common for parents to brag about their kids being romantically popular and precocious. Heck, there are onesies that say "Lady's Man" and I often see "get the shotgun ready" comments on pictures of quite young girls. I don't like it, but I could put up with it if it's more coming from the mom. If it's not a constant topic of conversation for the kid, I might be okay with it. 

 

#2 I don't like and try not to do myself, but wouldn't be a deal breaker for my kids to hear that. If she talked about dieting constantly, that would just be boring to me, so lead to fewer get-togethers. 

 

#3 Kind of depends. If it was in the context of how differently kids grow and develop, I don't necessarily find it weird or offensive. Step inside a middle school, and it's impossible to not notice that some of the boys look like little kids, and some of the girls look 21 and ready to hit the clubs. 

 

I do think you're being overly cautious if you stop getting together over this. Try to catch some of the kids' conversations when they're playing on their own. Ask your kids about their day. Keep eyes and ears open. Wait and see. Don't leave her in charge of your kids. Maybe don't let them sleep over, but stick with active outings like this one for now (hiking, swimming). 

 

My oldest daughter graduated a year ago, and my youngest graduates this coming year. Finding friends, or even playmates, was a continual struggle. For all of us, lol. I would be willing to put in a lot of work for any friendship that showed possibility. You can always step back later as needed. 

 

And remember this important sentence, "In our family, we do it this way."

[mathnerd]

Someone who talks like that is very immature and superficial. It reminds me of an IL of mine - she used to talk in excruciating detail about her miscarriages, her IUDs, her bloating, her BOOK size, her desire to not look like "an old married woman" in front of "hot guys" etc when her 8 year old daughter and 11 year old son were part of the conversation. It is not my style and such people are not ideally those that I would like to spend a pleasant afternoon with, for sure. I would avoid if possible.

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

I'm curious if she is a single mother?  My observation is that (some) single moms tend to take their kids in as confidants earlier than parents who have a SO.  I don't necessarily think there's anything "wrong" about it.  She doesn't sound like a person who I'd want to spend a whole ton of time with, but I definitely would not feel any need to avoid or exclude them.  Part of life is learning that not everyone fits the same mold as our family.  

[itsheresomewhere]

Wouldn't bother me at all. Just different cultures.

 

Now for 2- I can see my kids saying something proudly about weight loss for my DH. We talk openly about being healthy and taking care of ourselves. We don't promote dieting but instead taking about exercising and stuff. DH has been trying very hard to get himself health so I can see them saying proudly his weight loss. Along with something about how he can now do things with them that he couldn't before.

[Guinevere]

My only concern would be trying to figure out how "educated" her son really is on those topics. I have had a similar experience, and the boy's digital world turned out to be quite...uhm...interesting. I am thankful our times together have always been at neutral outdoor places.

[MedicMom]

Sounds very much like some cultures I am familiar with. Just different.

This. It's just a cultural difference, especially in the context that she's from Europe.

[trulycrabby]

Different culture.

[Garga]

My only concern would be trying to figure out how "educated" her son really is on those topics. I have had a similar experience, and the boy's digital world turned out to be quite...uhm...interesting. I am thankful our times together have always been at neutral outdoor places.

That's the only thing that would bother me. Would her son think it's ok to show my son things online that I don't want him seeing? That's the only part that would make me hesitate.

Edited July 27, 2017 by Garga

[Bluegoat]

I also think its a cultural thing.

 

I wouldn't likely talk quite like that, but I also find the way a lot of North Americans talk in front of their kids seems kind of odd and unnatural.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Btw-losing ten pounds in one week is quite an accomplishment. (Though slower weight loss is more likely to be permanent. )

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SKL]

Different family values, that's all.

 

My daughters are 10yo and I don't think they need the level of protection you seem to think a 10yo needs.  :)

[Carol in Cal.]

I would hate that stuff, but I have to say--it's the culture for sure.

We are the oddballs.  I'm good with that.

[winterbaby]

It would bother me, especially #3. I'm surprised by people saying that's not a big deal or something they might say themselves. I can't imagine making a comment on my child's peers' breasts. Sounds like she is pushing sexual themes and objectification of the female body pretty hard. I agree with concerns about what he may be up to online, so I would limit to outings where that won't be a factor. I would also be concerned, if their family culture is that female bodies are up for discussion with/by boys (#2 and #3), how long before your DD becomes the object of that?

 

I don't find culture much of an excuse, I know plenty of families of Mediterranean background who are quite conservative and dignified. But obviously it's at least her family culture... well you absolutely have a right to your own family culture, especially in this sensitive area. I guess it depends how desperate you are for friends.

 

Ten pounds in a week is incredibly unhealthy, if it's even possible.

[Ausmumof3]

I would say they sound like cultural differences.

[SKL]

I am surprised at the outrage that 10yos are allowed to hear that breasts exist.

 

I always find the range of kids' development rates fascinating.  If it came up in conversation, I wouldn't be afraid to let my kid hear a comment about it.  If I knew of a 10yo or 11yo who was very big and developed, I might remark on it in a casual setting where she is anonymous and not present.

 

If the concern is that the 10yo boy is going to go pick on the large-chested girl at school, perhaps that's also a cultural difference.  Something that you aren't taught is a big deal isn't going to be a big deal at school, generally.

 

I remember decades ago when there was a 5yo French boy (Jordy Lemoine) who had sung a popular song and was interviewed as a result.  (The song was "dur dur d'etre bebe" but I can't find the interview on the net.  The song video itself is a little risque by US standards.)  In the interview, little Jordy complimented the interviewer's boobs.  By US standards, at the time some people were mildly scandalized, LOL, but apparently it's not such a big deal over there. 

 

I also note that when I took my kids swimming in the Mediterranean, school-aged kids (boys and girls) were swimming in nothing but underpants.  Earlier this month, on a cruise ship, some kids were running around stark naked.  Different cultures, as I told my girls.  Nobody died.  :P

[AngieC]

None of those would be a deal breaker for me, but the weight loss comments would bother me the most as I am more of a love your body and see all the fabulous things it can do rather than trying to lose weight person. If I wanted to lose weight, I would do it quietly and not involve my kids.

[wonderchica]

I don't think any of it sounds that weird or shocking. If you're uncomfortable, of course you don't have to socialize with them, but I don't see anything to get really worked up about. Ideally, yes, everyone would be all body positive and hooray for all types, but that's pretty uncommon. Millions of people diet and talk about it in front of their children. Not a huge deal. Besides, being upset about noticing someone's boobs isn't really body positive either, ya know?

[marbel]

1.  I would inwardly roll my eyes at the notion of a 10 year old having a girlfriend.

 

2.  Meh.  I am not sure that people talking about weight and the need to lose weight should be such a taboo . There are lines to be drawn, of course, and no one should be shaming anyone.  But the conversation as noted in the OP wouldn't necessarily be weird to me, unless the woman was slim and seemed obsessed with losing weight and being thinner.  I am overweight; it's obvious I am overweight, efforts to lose weight are going to be obvious to my kids.  

 

3. I don't think adults should talk about unrelated children's physical development (secondary sex characteristics, I think is the term?)  in such a way in front of other children.    

[Mimm]

1 is weird to me but I could live with it.

 

2 doesn't seem overly fun to be around but I don't have healthiest food habits so I'm not one to throw stones.

 

3 would bother me the most. I would not want my daughters to be talked about that way and if I had sons, I wouldn't teach them that it was ok to talk about girls like that.

[winterbaby]

I am surprised at the outrage that 10yos are allowed to hear that breasts exist.

 

I always find the range of kids' development rates fascinating.  If it came up in conversation, I wouldn't be afraid to let my kid hear a comment about it.  If I knew of a 10yo or 11yo who was very big and developed, I might remark on it in a casual setting where she is anonymous and not present.

 

If the concern is that the 10yo boy is going to go pick on the large-chested girl at school, perhaps that's also a cultural difference.  Something that you aren't taught is a big deal isn't going to be a big deal at school, generally.

 

I wouldn't characterize what OP describes as the kid not being taught that it's a big deal. To the contrary, it seems like something they focus on a lot. He's being taught that comments on girls' bodies are his right - it only stands to reason that he will probably end up doing so to girls he knows. And what he perceives as normal or not a big deal from being raised in an atmosphere where the details of female bodies are a constant topic of conversation may not fit what that girl feels qualifies as not getting picked on. She's not anonymous to the boy, who's being taught that her body is an appropriate object of focus.

 

I teach my kid that bodies aren't a big deal by not making them a focus. What exactly is the purpose of commenting on other people's kids bodily development? Everybody knows that kids develop at different rates, why spell it out with respect to specific kids? In what sense is it possibly relevant to anything? How the heck is refraining from graphic comments about young girls the same as not letting ten year olds know that breasts exist? Why not a happy medium where they know that breasts exist, and they also know that other people's bodies aren't there for us to make small talk about?

[teachermom2834]

I raised my boys very conservatively with very limited media. If I lost track of them in a swimming area I would have immediately looked near the bikinis.

 

They did out grow that in later teen years but I decided some kids are just wired that way more than others.

[SKL]

I wouldn't characterize what OP describes as the kid not being taught that it's a big deal. To the contrary, it seems like something they focus on a lot. He's being taught that comments on girls' bodies are his right - it only stands to reason that he will probably end up doing so to girls he knows. And what he perceives as normal or not a big deal from being raised in an atmosphere where the details of female bodies are a constant topic of conversation may not fit what that girl feels qualifies as not getting picked on. She's not anonymous to the boy, who's being taught that her body is an appropriate object of focus.

 

I teach my kid that bodies aren't a big deal by not making them a focus. What exactly is the purpose of commenting on other people's kids bodily development? Everybody knows that kids develop at different rates, why spell it out with respect to specific kids? In what sense is it possibly relevant to anything? How the heck is refraining from graphic comments about young girls the same as not letting ten year olds know that breasts exist? Why not a happy medium where they know that breasts exist, and they also know that other people's bodies aren't there for us to make small talk about?

 

It seems to me that being so focused on hiding or putting a taboo on normal everyday things is the odd behavior.

 

I don't get the impression that this lady never talks about anything other than bodies.  If that is the case, then yeah, that is weird.  But bodies are kind of there.  I mean I've recently talked about my sore tailbone to people I feel safe with.  Because it hurts a lot, and it affects my lifestyle.  But no, my whole life isn't centered on my butt.  :P

 

I also talk to other women in my age range about perimenopause.  To those younger, because I don't think that should come as a surprise as happened to me.  To those older, because they can sympathize.  It doesn't mean I think about nothing all day but girl parts.

 

As for what kids should hear, at 10yo they are learning in school (and other social situations) about the body and how it changes, and things are happening or soon to happen to them.  I would rather they feel comfortable knowing it's normal and not something to be ashamed of.  My keeping quiet about it isn't going to stop them from thinking about it.

[Guinevere]

Talking about MY body is okay. Talking about another person's body, especially that of a minor, is not.

[winterbaby]

Yeah, I don't see it as horrible repressed secret hiding and taboo to refrain from comment on other people's bodies. There's a happy medium between oppressive taboo and going out of your way to point out young girls' sexual development, complete with emphatic gestures.

[lllll]

nm 

 

Edited August 14, 2017 by lllll

[SKL]

Talking about MY body is okay. Talking about another person's body, especially that of a minor, is not.

 

Goodness.  I guess I am a terrible person for noticing that many girls in the 5th grade and some in the 4th were developing.

 

Can you articulate why it's wrong to mention such a thing?  Is it more wrong than mentioning that someone is tall for his/her age, or is starting to get facial hair or his voice is changing?

[winterbaby]

I wouldn't comment on someone's voice changing either! In many cases I might not comment on height, depending. It's questionable manners to comment on people's bodies, definitely bad manners if it's something that might be sensitive, as children's sexual maturation certainly is, especially if it's happening at a different rate than most of their peers, in either direction. Can you articulate why you feel the need to make children's developing bodies a topic of conversation? This is not about "noticing." Everybody notices. Why does it have to be a discussion? What, other than potential awkwardness, is gained by airing your thoughts on people's bodies?

[Jean in Newcastle]

Some cultures are not as squeamish as US or Canada in talking about maturing bodies and don't consider it a social faux pas.  This was true where I grew up.  No one was fixated on it but it wasn't a conversational taboo.  And since I was a foreigner and matured quite differently from my age mates it came up in conversation a lot.  And yes, it was embarrassing but I didn't take offense either because it was a different cultural norm and I understood that. 

[Guinevere]

Goodness. I guess I am a terrible person for noticing that many girls in the 5th grade and some in the 4th were developing.

 

Can you articulate why it's wrong to mention such a thing? Is it more wrong than mentioning that someone is tall for his/her age, or is starting to get facial hair or his voice is changing?

Noticing is fine; we all notice things. Not sure why you jumped to that. Talking about it with someone is different.

 

I try to make it a point not to talk about anyone, unless I am specifically praising them, or recommending them.

 

I do think it is inappropriate to talk about any of the things you mentioned. Why call attention to another person's body, even if they are a child? Do you talk about adults that way?

[38carrots]

I'm surprised how many here think it is normal to comment about a child's body this way, especially when she is probably quite sensitive about it (even if she is not present--her classmate was).

 

Would you be okay if a casual friend commented on your 10 year old DDs breasts to her son? ("Her boobs are so huge?" Ugh, that's just crass in any context.) It is one thing what boys might talk between themselves; it is one thing what we, as parents, might notice. But gosh, not everything deserves a public commentary. We are not prudes by any means and we are very open about our bodies in our family. This doesn't mean I'd go around commenting on girl's breasts, or anyone's breasts, for that matter.

[SKL]

Well the lady didn't go up to a girl and say "wow you have big boobs."  She just mentioned that someone in her son's class is more developed than one might expect at that age.

 

I dunno, I don't think it's taboo to say e.g. "some of the middle school kids are as tall as their parents" or "my kid's 5th grade teammate is almost as tall as I am."  I wouldn't think twice about saying "there's a boy in my kids' class whose voice is breaking."  I also wouldn't feel mean saying either of these to the kids' faces, unless the difference was very unusual e.g. the kid is 7 feet tall in 6th grade.

 

I think it's more shaming behavior to avoid talking about development, especially for those of us who have daughters in puberty.

 

I still haven't heard anyone articulate why this is wrong.

[SKL]

I would also point out that the topic of kids' average / range of size during puberty was being discussed by both parents, including how tall OP's DD is.  It must have felt like a safe topic, and maybe even intended to make OP's DD feel better about being tall for her age.

[cave canem]

Can you articulate why it's wrong to mention such a thing?  Is it more wrong than mentioning that someone is tall for his/her age, or is starting to get facial hair or his voice is changing?

You can find out yourself with a simple experiment.  Approach someone in your workplace and say, "My, what large breasts you have."  Have a friend approach the same person and say, "Wow, you are really tall."  See which of you and your friend gets a visit from HR.