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When do you consider a child to be reading?


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On my MIL's last visit, she raved about how well my 4 yo niece was reading.  Well, we just got back from a few days visit with niece/SIL+BIL.  She can read her name and recognize about a dozen letters.   :rolleyes: She's adorable, bubbly, fabulous, and is exactly where I might expect a 4 yo to be with regards to phonics, but I wouldn't describe her as "reading".

 

Then I started wondering if I am selling my own kid short.  If someone asked me if he was reading (a conversation I usually avoid), I would probably answer no, but he's learning.  He is sill in phonics controlled readers (starting AAR 2/the 4th level of I See Sam).  I couldn't really hand him a book like Frog and Toad without support from me.  So I guess my own definition is when kids can read easy reader type books with some level of independence.

 

Is my definition too narrow?  Thoughts?  When did you consider your own kids readers?

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Reading: The child can decode simple words--CVC, CCVC, CVCC, etc.

 

Reading well for a 4yo: The child can read fluently on a first grade level (including "sight words").

 

"Reading" in general: The child reads chapter books for pleasure.  Most real chapter books are written at about a fourth grade level or above.

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I think it is all about the context.

 

I don't know if I would point blank say your son is "reading", but I would have no problem saying he is reading very well for his age, or that his reading is coming along nicely.

 

I have recently transitioned to saying that my 6 year old is a reader without any qualifiers.  He is reading at a high 2nd grade level.  He can read beginning chapter books (Nate the Great, Amelia Bedelia) or Ranger Rick magazines with very few errors and no signs of fatigue.  He can read Frog and Toad to his little sister with confidence, fluency and expression.  He can figure out almost any sign/label/packaging he comes across with only occasional stumbles and mispronunciations.  He's not up to tackling the Wall Street Journal or anything, but he can read just about anything he encounters in his day to day life.

 

Wendy 

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I think that any definition you can construct is going to be somewhat arbitrary, and not necessarily appropriate in all contexts. "Reading" could be anything from sounding out "C-A-T" with prompting, onwards. And many grandmothers are naturally proud of their grandchildren, so it's not surprising that your MIL is excited about your niece's developing reading skills. I hope she is equally excited and happy about your Mr. 4? 

 

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Reading: The child can decode simple words--CVC, CCVC, CVCC, etc.

 

Reading well for a 4yo: The child can read fluently on a first grade level (including "sight words").

 

"Reading" in general: The child reads chapter books for pleasure.  Most real chapter books are written at about a fourth grade level or above.

 

 

I think it is all about the context.

 

I don't know if I would point blank say your son is "reading", but I would have no problem saying he is reading very well for his age, or that his reading is coming along nicely.

 

I have recently transitioned to saying that my 6 year old is a reader without any qualifiers.  He is reading at a high 2nd grade level.  He can read beginning chapter books (Nate the Great, Amelia Bedelia) or Ranger Rick magazines with very few errors and no signs of fatigue.  He can read Frog and Toad to his little sister with confidence, fluency and expression.  He can figure out almost any sign/label/packaging he comes across with only occasional stumbles and mispronunciations.  He's not up to tackling the Wall Street Journal or anything, but he can read just about anything he encounters in his day to day life.

 

Wendy 

 

 

I didn't count my sons as reading until they could decode anything I put in front of them and we stopped phonics instruction. Until that point they were still learning to read in my mind.

 

 

These are pretty much in line with my thinking.  No matter the definition of "reading" DS is definitely doing fine for his age, and he's happy learning to read, which is what matters most.  Hopefully that turns into a love for reading and becoming a "reader".

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I think that any definition you can construct is going to be somewhat arbitrary, and not necessarily appropriate in all contexts. "Reading" could be anything from sounding out "C-A-T" with prompting, onwards. And many grandmothers are naturally proud of their grandchildren, so it's not surprising that your MIL is excited about your niece's developing reading skills. I hope she is equally excited and happy about your Mr. 4? 

 

 

 

 

I'm definitely not begrudging her proud grandma moment!  Niece is brilliant, and if I think so, MIL is doubly entitled :laugh:  She doesn't know about my Mr. 4, mostly for the reason that when Nana comes to visit there are way more exciting things to do than sit and read.  Also, if possible, I try to limit the comparison game between these two (they are 6 weeks apart), because I don't think it's good for anyone.  And of course, in good family drama, she's going to be horrified when she learns we're homeschooling, so I'm not coming anywhere near poking that bear unless I have to, which includes the terrible possibility that I'm not leaving reading up to "a professional."

 

But he's happy, which is pretty much my only criteria atm.

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My BIL's son is 6 months older than my oldest boy so that would be a loaded question on my husband's side of the family. My side of the family has either early readers or late readers and no one cares. My relatives treat being able to read as being able to read a simple newspaper article or the equivalent of Readers Digest's Laughter the Best Medicine.

 

My in-laws liked to test my kids because they seems to think my kids were behind for not going to preschool. My husband didn't care until my in-laws did it in front of his siblings. When my kids exceeded my in-laws education, they stopped testing my kids.

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On my MIL's last visit, she raved about how well my 4 yo niece was reading.  Well, we just got back from a few days visit with niece/SIL+BIL.  She can read her name and recognize about a dozen letters.   :rolleyes: She's adorable, bubbly, fabulous, and is exactly where I might expect a 4 yo to be with regards to phonics, but I wouldn't describe her as "reading".

 

Then I started wondering if I am selling my own kid short.  If someone asked me if he was reading (a conversation I usually avoid), I would probably answer no, but he's learning.  He is sill in phonics controlled readers (starting AAR 2/the 4th level of I See Sam).  I couldn't really hand him a book like Frog and Toad without support from me.  So I guess my own definition is when kids can read easy reader type books with some level of independence.

 

Is my definition too narrow?  Thoughts?  When did you consider your own kids readers?

 

When I begin teaching him. He isn't reading as well *now* as he will be in a year or so, but he's still reading.

 

Your son is reading. However, a 4yo who recognizes her name and half of the alphabet is not reading.

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It's funny - becoming a reader is a lot like potty training. A child can be "potty trained" but still have accidents at night. Likewise, a child can be a "reader" and still forget various rules or need support with new words. (I remember when my oldest was a toddler, I kinda assumed that one day she would be in diapers, and then, the next, whenever she was officially "potty trained," she would suddenly be in undies and that would be it, lol. But of course, potty training is a process--your child does go from diapers to undies, but there are sometimes days and weeks of small accidents, or Pull-ups at night, or they'll happily do #1 in the potty, but not #2, etc., etc. It's a messy two-steps-forward, one-step-back process and you can only sorta declare your child Officially Potty Trained after the fact. Reading was the same for us; my children learned it in spurts, learning letter sounds, and then certain words, and certain blends, but sometimes they'd forget stuff I thought they had mastered, and on and on until one day it all just clicked and I'd realize that they were suddenly reading aloud to me from a chapter book with no mistakes.)

 

At any rate, I feel like a child is "reading" whenever they are actively learning how to read. (I think any child who is trying to learn should absolutely self-identify as a reader.) For the purposed of this conversation, I guess I would consider them an "established reader" when they can read "I Can Read" books and early chapter books completely independently and with strong comprehension. 

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Um, off the top of my head I would say a beginner reader can sound out simple words with little support. That's actually reading. All the other stuff is prereading skills. But I'm no expert. But I would answer yes my child is reading if she could sound out words.

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Reading: The child can decode simple words--CVC, CCVC, CVCC, etc.

 

Reading well for a 4yo: The child can read fluently on a first grade level (including "sight words").

 

"Reading" in general: The child reads chapter books for pleasure.  Most real chapter books are written at about a fourth grade level or above.

 

 

Something along the lines of this. That said, my oldest had an awesome memory for sight words, so in K was reading 1st grade level books just fine while struggling with decoding simple CVC words... and I would still say he was reading. Ended up doing a program with nonsense words with him.

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If I was talking about my own kids, I would not use "can read" but would be more specific and on the humble side.  "She'll be reading soon."  "Starting to recognize / sound out words."  "Starting to read easy readers."  "Can read most kiddy books if she wants to."

 

I do recall when my kid was 4.5yo and we were at a party.  My kid sat with my sister and read a [new-to-her] Dr. Seuss book.  At the time she was still learning and not fluent, but my sister remarked that "she just sat here and read this whole book."  My response was "she reads a lot," meaning that she enjoyed spending a lot of time with her nose in a book.  We happened to have access to thousands of kiddy books, so that didn't mean she was reading War and Peace.  Hopefully nobody took it that way.  :P

 

If I'm talking about a KG program or similar, I would say they are reading by the end of KG or whatever.  Reading meaning knowing some phonics and words, of varying quantity since all kids in any KG are different.

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As a spin-off of that: 

 

At what age/level/situation do you count listening as reading. 

 

For example my boys are enjoying Harry Potter right now. Eldest is reading the books, and Youngest is listening to them. If someone asks them, "Have you read Harry Potter". Can both say yes? Only one? .... 

 

Dh is listening to an audio book. I think it is something in line with "Freakeconmics". If  a topic comes up which would you prefer he use, "I heard about that...." or "I read about that..." What if you can't remember if you read it, or listened to it? 

 

My Mom is in a monthly book club. Every month they gather together and talk about books they have read. It's more of a chance just to discuss books you like with people you like. She only listens to the books, doesn't read them. Would it matter to you/anyone if she talked about reading this or that - instead of listening. 

 

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I would also caution that many kids don't show what they know.  If you met my kids as preschoolers, you might well come away with the idea that they couldn't even talk, LOL.  When my kid was in pre-K she was too shy to read in class for several months, then one day asked to read a book to everyone.

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Interesting question about audiobooks.  I'm a recent convert to audiobooks.  Right now my kids and I are listening to Defoe's Robinson Crusoe.  It's the first actual "classic" that I am listening to but have never read with my eyes.  So I was asking myself the same question.  I lean toward saying I have read Robinson Crusoe (once we finish it).  I'm also reading The Grapes of Wrath, with my eyes.  I don't feel any difference.

 

My eldest (10) reads just fine for her age, but she has vision problems and it's a chore for her.  She does enjoy audiobooks a lot, and she gains a lot from them.  I don't think it's a lie to say she has read xyz and to test on those books the same as if she read them with her eyes.  Same for my other kid, also 10, who is an advanced and enthusiastic reader.

 

If you'd asked me a couple few years ago, I might have answered differently.

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Um, off the top of my head I would say a beginner reader can sound out simple words with little support. That's actually reading. All the other stuff is prereading skills. But I'm no expert. But I would answer yes my child is reading if she could sound out words.

 

I think this is where context really enters into the equation.  

 

If a new speech therapist asked if my first grader was reading, and he was still at the stage of slowly sounding out CVC words, then I would answer along the lines of, "Not quite, he is still working on beginning phonics."  I mean, yes, decoding a CVC word could be called reading in a sense, but my experience tells me that the speech therapist is actually asking if DS can read words on word cards, read instructions on worksheets, read treasure hunt clues, etc.

 

In my view, saying that a child who can only decode CVC words is "reading" is the same as saying that a child who can successfully walk the two houses down to his friend's house is "finding his way around the neighborhood".  I guess he is "finding his way", as long as his way is a carefully delineated path between two fixed locations.  In the same way, I have a hard time calling it reading when a child can only handle a small fraction of the words that they would encounter in typical "reading" situations.

 

Wendy

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On my MIL's last visit, she raved about how well my 4 yo niece was reading.  Well, we just got back from a few days visit with niece/SIL+BIL.  She can read her name and recognize about a dozen letters.   :rolleyes: She's adorable, bubbly, fabulous, and is exactly where I might expect a 4 yo to be with regards to phonics, but I wouldn't describe her as "reading".

 

Then I started wondering if I am selling my own kid short.  If someone asked me if he was reading (a conversation I usually avoid), I would probably answer no, but he's learning.  He is sill in phonics controlled readers (starting AAR 2/the 4th level of I See Sam).  I couldn't really hand him a book like Frog and Toad without support from me.  So I guess my own definition is when kids can read easy reader type books with some level of independence.

 

Is my definition too narrow?  Thoughts?  When did you consider your own kids readers?

 

I wonder if she heard the niece "reading" a book that the niece had memorized. It took me a LONG time to be aware DS was actually reading so I don't know when it he actually started because I just figured he had memorized a lot of those books (and had good memorization ability) It was only when he sat down and started reading _The Cat in the Hat Comes Back_ mostly by himself that I realized he could actually read, not just memorize stuff. But in retrospect -- I think a lot of what I thought was memorization was actually reading.

 

There are stages of reading for a more average child though. I was thrilled when DD could read a whole story mostly by herself in a Dick and Jane kind of book. I was still sitting there helping. And the stories were very simplified vocabulary. But we were thrilled she did it.  OTOH, I was also thrilled last night when I was reading Heidi to her and she took the book away to read some of it herself -- even though she's having trouble "following" the lines from one to the next and still needed help with some of the words (and only read half a page total before she got tired and gave the book back to me). It was obvious that she can sound out/figure out most of the words herself once she "Saw" where she was supposed to be.  With the level of Heidi, I thought that was quite sufficient reading for an almost 6 year old.

 

ETA: And at DD's preschool, they were quite excited with her ability to "read" her name (Recognize it on the wall) and write it for herself at 3 years old.

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As a spin-off of that: 

 

At what age/level/situation do you count listening as reading. 

 

For example my boys are enjoying Harry Potter right now. Eldest is reading the books, and Youngest is listening to them. If someone asks them, "Have you read Harry Potter". Can both say yes? Only one? .... 

 

Dh is listening to an audio book. I think it is something in line with "Freakeconmics". If  a topic comes up which would you prefer he use, "I heard about that...." or "I read about that..." What if you can't remember if you read it, or listened to it? 

 

My Mom is in a monthly book club. Every month they gather together and talk about books they have read. It's more of a chance just to discuss books you like with people you like. She only listens to the books, doesn't read them. Would it matter to you/anyone if she talked about reading this or that - instead of listening. 

 

1. I call it reading a book if I've listened to the audio version

 

2. Our monthly book club has plenty of people who just listen to the book (as well as those who read on Kindle versus in paper copy). There is no difference made.

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1. I call it reading a book if I've listened to the audio version

 

2. Our monthly book club has plenty of people who just listen to the book (as well as those who read on Kindle versus in paper copy). There is no difference made.

 

Yeah, my kids' middle school book club (for grades 5-9 IIRC) provides all the kids with their choice of a hardcover or audio book.  We always take one of each, and then I listen to the whole book with my eldest, and my youngest, who isn't always in the car with my eldest, can fill in the gaps or read ahead.

 

My mom has severe problems with her eyes, and hasn't been able to read with them in at least a decade.  She has always called it "reading" when she listens to audiobooks.

 

If the question is focused on primary-age kids on a normal learning-to-read path, I might cut it off at the point where "learning to read" surrenders to "reading to learn."  But for kids with learning disabilities etc., I would count audiobooks if they are able to understand and retain what they are hearing.

 

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