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Does anyone know of good resources for improving reading comprehension for an 8 year old with ASD reading on a 1st grade level?

 

He will listen to me read books such as the Hobbit, Narnia etc and follows along fairly well but when he reads a short and simple passage he says he doesn't know what he's read by the time he's done reading it.

 

Anybody tried something that has helped with this?

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You have language scores to know where he's at? My ds is like that, with high IQ and vocabulary. When he began reading he was basically hyperlexic.

 

Also his comfort reading will be several grades behind his decoding. You might work on decoding and language and see if things click.

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I am making an effort for my son's listening comprehension right now.

 

I have a combination of generic reading comprehension ideas for read-alouds (talking about the book, stopping for a question or prediction, pointing out an inference, pointing out different perspectives), and then some specifics I know (from testing, from speech therapy, from his IEP, etc) he needs to work on.

 

So this includes making predictions, answering "why" questions, making inferences, and identifying a main idea.

 

I am trying to make an effort to stop as I read and share my thought processes, share things I notice, and things like that.

 

I stop to make a prediction and we both make a prediction (or sometimes only I do and then he goes along with mine) and then we stop and see if our predictions were accurate.

 

Sometimes I stop to ask "wondering" questions and then I answer them myself or see what he says.

 

This is all ridiculous to my daughter (they are twins). Or mostly. She likes to do things like "what might happen next" at the end of a book, or to talk about something that could have been done differently in the book.

 

Anyway -- this is what I am doing right now :)

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Have you had language testing to see if there are language issues behind the comprehension? I didn't think my kiddo with ASD had language issues, but now we're trying to deal with them at age 13. There are a lot fewer testing options at this age, and it's hard to find appropriate therapy materials.

 

My son's reading comprehension was through the roof at age 8, and now it's still where it was at age 8 because of language issues that were awfully subtle for a long time. He's 2e.

 

Your son is on the cusp of language pragmatics being something you can reliably test for. There is a standard test for that--schools use it, and we found it to be helpful. We recently had the TNL and TOPS tests for my son, and those were really eye-opening. 

 

Subtle language issues might be more obvious in a year or two.

 

I am not sure if we tested language (and not just for ASD stuff, IQ, and achievement) if anything would've shown up at age 8, but it sure is showing up now.

 

I hope you find great options for working on it!

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I agree with getting some language testing. As well how is his listening comprehension, as you need to tackle that first. Some resources that were very helpful for my son at that age:

 

I Get It! by Audra Jensen

 

Hyperlexia kit level 2 from Linquisystems;

 

Comprehension connections by Tanny McGregor

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Have you had language testing to see if there are language issues behind the comprehension? I didn't think my kiddo with ASD had language issues, but now we're trying to deal with them at age 13. There are a lot fewer testing options at this age, and it's hard to find appropriate therapy materials.

 

My son's reading comprehension was through the roof at age 8, and now it's still where it was at age 8 because of language issues that were awfully subtle for a long time. He's 2e.

 

Your son is on the cusp of language pragmatics being something you can reliably test for. There is a standard test for that--schools use it, and we found it to be helpful. We recently had the TNL and TOPS tests for my son, and those were really eye-opening. 

 

Subtle language issues might be more obvious in a year or two.

 

I am not sure if we tested language (and not just for ASD stuff, IQ, and achievement) if anything would've shown up at age 8, but it sure is showing up now.

 

I hope you find great options for working on it!

 

 

I will check into language testing again with our psych. Thank you for this detailed info! Last time we discussed language testing for ds our psych didn't think it would be very helpful so It will help me to know what to ask for specifically.

 

 

I agree with getting some language testing. As well how is his listening comprehension, as you need to tackle that first. Some resources that were very helpful for my son at that age:

I Get It! by Audra Jensen

Hyperlexia kit level 2 from Linquisystems;

Comprehension connections by Tanny McGregor

He scored really well on listening comprehension on a CAT test we did in May. He seems to follow well when I read aloud but when he is doing the reading he doesn't comprehend. If I had to guess I would say it's because reading is still slow and laborious for him but even when reading well below a level he can decode he's having comprehension issues.

 

Thanks for these recommendations; I'll check them out!

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For full disclosure, the tests I listed are kind of "different." They catch more subtle stuff that goes along with autism vs. frank "expressive/receptive" language, which can be a problem as well. If there are expressive/receptive issues with not processing grammar-ish things (grammar in the SLP sense), then you will want something like CASL or CELF. (CASL is probably better.)

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News2you is a totally different approach.

 

News2you uses symbol supported text, which has been shown to interfere with learning to decode.

 

I see it as an option for some very specific categories of kids, but an 8 year old with age appropriate or above listening comprehension, who is already reading, albeit at an early level, is not that kid.

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News2you uses symbol supported text, which has been shown to interfere with learning to decode.

 

I see it as an option for some very specific categories of kids, but an 8 year old with age appropriate or above listening comprehension, who is already reading, albeit at an early level, is not that kid.

 

Actually that's really helpful to have you explain that. We had a new IS (intervention specialist) come out. She's new to us, not new to the field, and she suggested N2Y for my ds. I really went around in circles on this, because I was trying to figure out if she was seeing something I wasn't, if I was just in denial, blah blah. I have language scores on my ds, and went up dramatically (as did his comprehension and willingness to read!) with intervention. So I finally, timidly concluded the IS with 20 years of experience must not have really, really understood our situation, and I declined her services completely. :(  It was kinda rough though. Like there's an element of truth to it, that going through a stage where you're using text with picture supports (like a picture on the page, a kid's picture book, a magazine, comics, etc.) can be a normal, typical level of support! And I hadn't thought through it, but that makes sense.

 

I ended up deciding to ramp up more immersion reading. He already reads a lot via audiobooks, but he had totally flopped with immersion reading before. We tried it again, and it's ok but challenging. I actually think the *speed* is the issue with him, which connects back to what WoolC was saying. My ds is diagnosed dyslexic and autistic, the Eides' marvelous 13 person MRI study notwithstanding. And I agree, he doesn't have that widely spaced mini-columns profile! He definitely presents as closely spaced minicolumns in the way he learns, yes.

 

So anyways, since you're here (Daria), could you share if you have any experience with Zoom In? It's a tier 2/3 intervention with detailed, highly scaffolded materials by grade level, bridging from modeling to independent practice for each lesson, covering your normal reading strategies (cause/effect, inferencing, etc.). Curriculum Associates, LLC - ZOOM IN The price is ROUGH, oy, but it actually looks really thorough and like it could be good for my ds.

 

For the op, I think 1st grade decoding is really light to be expecting them to pleasure read. At that level, he might play Boggle enjoyably or do little 3/4 letter word games. The Bob books would be at his comfort reading level. Like to me, I would work on fluency and decoding and not even worry too much about reading reading. Is your curriculum a good fit for him for decoding? Is he making progress with it? You could use whatever reading is contained in it and not worry about outside reading for a while yet.

 

For my ds, I think there are lots of things that factor into it.

 

-what he wants to read (by IQ, by drive), isn't going to match what he can read easily, therefore it's easier to use audiobooks

-speed of processing required to do immersion reading or eye reading. He seems to be ok with *slow* immersion reading apps, just not normal speed. Normal speed is fatiguing for him.

-language comprehension. A gifted kid can't do gifted work on low and low average language scores. Just ain't happening. My ds' willingness to read directly correlates to language intervention.

-magic pixie dust. I'm joking, but I do think it's reality that it's going to click and take off when it clicks and takes off. He's basically 2 years behind where my dd was, so it is what it is. I'm going to fill in the holes I know are there, but I think beyond that I can't make it happen.

 

The CELF for this age is, well I just like the CASL better. I would get the language testing done by an SLP. My ds' scores were very low, went up with intervention, dropped when we paused it, and will presumably go back up now that we're intervening again. His self-driven reading of environmental print, etc. has directly correlated to language work, so I DEFINITELY think language plays a part.

 

Think about the complexity of what we're saying. First we're saying can he even get in the door, like does he even understand ANY of it, or is he actually hyperlexic. My ds was visibly, clearly, indisputably hyperlexic at one point. It was totally crazy. We began GPP and he began reading environmental print. 

 

I think in our case we continue to be in a situation where all the factors aren't merged. We haven't brought the language up ENOUGH to match how high we brought the decoding and the vocabulary and to match all that to the IQ (to hit where he wants to be). If what he WANTS to read isn't comprehensible to him, he tries, reads a bit, and gives up. So that's all I know to do is try to keep bringing up EVERYTHING until enough factors are up that it can click. 

 

But I really don't know. I know that the more detailed our language testing, the more pieces I've found. And I have gotten more detailed testing through an SLP than through the psych. There *are* psychs who can do this, but a psych who is blowing you off might not have the tests, kwim? I got a dynamic assessment of social communication, which included a narrative language component. If you want to blow your mind, get his narrative language assessed. 

 

What Lecka is describing is good stuff! Bringing that social thinking in is good. I don't think it's why my ds is not *reading*. The hyperlexia gig was showing up even with something simple like "A frog sat on a log." That wasn't a social thinking deficit. And yet, in reality, the thought process she's describing needs to come into it, yes! It's what I meant by working on all the things. I'm going to go look at that hyperlexia program Jen linked. Maybe there's more, like more levels. I haven't found anything that I thought was really, really brilliant for it. GPP worked really well, but it maxes out. I think the IS viewed N2Y as a way to work on hyperlexia, by attaching visual to words to build meaning. I agree using actually speech therapy materials to build meaning is SAFER, absolutely. 

 

And yeah, I really felt like I was going out there on a limb when I turned down that IS. Our behaviorist hired her, so I thought ok this IS is going to be good. She has 20 years experience! And the more I looked at it, the more I was like well it's organized and has some good features (engagement through activities and rabbit trails, etc.), but it just didn't seem aimed at *my* kid. I just don't know exactly Wool's dc, so I still mentioned it, kwim? 

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 Which is all to say, Daria, if you know more factors that we're not working on that we should be working on, I'm all ears! 

 

Right now ds reads Calvin & Hobbes comics (ebooks on his kindle) for pleasure. He describes himself as a reader and can pick up anything within reason and read for a while. It's extremely *fatiguing* to him. So like my dh handed him a work handout on types of poison rashes (ivy, oak, etc.), and ds read the whole handout aloud to us. But he does not read any traditional books for pleasure AT ALL. Zilcho, nada.

 

My dd went through the Calvin & Hobbes stage and became a good reader, so I wondered if maybe I could just leave him alone and would find he gets there. In that case it's same that time is a factor, that he just needs that time to mature and have it click and have everything merge. 

 

So where I am with my ds is a little less drastic (because his decoding is higher), but no less consternating. It's that point where you go ok, we got up the decoding, and still it's not happening!

 

I'm not sure that Zoom In does anything about developmental timeline and letting things happen. To me it's just thought process that needs to develop. I think they're separate things. I see no evidence that it's going to develop on its own, and the skills in Zoom In are what the other (better) IS had said to work on with him. That was more in the "here's his IEP and these are the next steps and goals he should have" kind of thing.

 

But yeah, when you're bringing so many skills into place, it's really weird, like why doesn't he READ. But Calvin & Hobbes s something! It may come. But I want to be doing the intervention I *can* do.

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The CAT tests we've done were 

 

I agree with getting some language testing. As well how is his listening comprehension, as you need to tackle that first. Some resources that were very helpful for my son at that age:

I Get It! by Audra Jensen

Hyperlexia kit level 2 from Linquisystems;

Comprehension connections by Tanny McGregor

Ooo, I was just looking at the McGregor book last night and thinking it sounded like stuff you had done! What a hoot!

 

I'm going to go look at that hyperlexia kit.

 

Was he also diagnosed with SLD Reading by chance? I really think ds is just *slow* at it because of the dyslexia. 

 

Oh, now a question I've been saving all day for Daria but that Jen can jump in on! :)  Is there a book out there that has all the CLUE WORDS and whatnot for the strategies? For instance Zoom In has grade leveled intervention materials for sequencing and they teach explicitly words to look for, how to find the support in the text what you're looking for. And it's there at all the levels for all the strategies.(cause/effect, inferencing etc.) So I was debating whether it was better to try to get grade leveled, open and go materials, or if there was ONE BOOK that would have all that info in one place...

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Ok, I'm looking at the Linguisystems hyperlexia kits, and level 1 is very similar to N2Y.

I only ever used level 2 which as you can tell from the sample is quite a bit different than the first one. Ds loved using the sentence strips for retelling. Ds made great gains using the program. One of the biggest things I learned was giving ds trouble when using the program was the pronoun referents. That alone was a huge lightbulb for helping his reading.

 

Ds was never considered to have hyperlexia as he could understand at least on an age appropriate level what he was reading. He started reading at the same time he started talking at around 3 so the bar for his understanding wasn't super high, lol. Reading just wasn't very enjoyable for him given perspective taking was such an issue. So doing the hyperlexia kit and the book chats that are taught in the I Get It book were a big turning point for him.

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For the op, I think 1st grade decoding is really light to be expecting them to pleasure read. At that level, he might play Boggle enjoyably or do little 3/4 letter word games. The Bob books would be at his comfort reading level. Like to me, I would work on fluency and decoding and not even worry too much about reading reading. Is your curriculum a good fit for him for decoding? Is he making progress with it? You could use whatever reading is contained in it and not worry about outside reading for a while yet.

 

For my ds, I think there are lots of things that factor into it.

 

-what he wants to read (by IQ, by drive), isn't going to match what he can read easily, therefore it's easier to use audiobooks

-speed of processing required to do immersion reading or eye reading. He seems to be ok with *slow* immersion reading apps, just not normal speed. Normal speed is fatiguing for him.

-language comprehension. A gifted kid can't do gifted work on low and low average language scores. Just ain't happening. My ds' willingness to read directly correlates to language intervention.

-magic pixie dust. I'm joking, but I do think it's reality that it's going to click and take off when it clicks and takes off. He's basically 2 years behind where my dd was, so it is what it is. I'm going to fill in the holes I know are there, but I think beyond that I can't make it happen.

 

The CELF for this age is, well I just like the CASL better. I would get the language testing done by an SLP. My ds' scores were very low, went up with intervention, dropped when we paused it, and will presumably go back up now that we're intervening again. His self-driven reading of environmental print, etc. has directly correlated to language work, so I DEFINITELY think language plays a part.

 

Think about the complexity of what we're saying. First we're saying can he even get in the door, like does he even understand ANY of it, or is he actually hyperlexic. My ds was visibly, clearly, indisputably hyperlexic at one point. It was totally crazy. We began GPP and he began reading environmental print.

 

I think in our case we continue to be in a situation where all the factors aren't merged. We haven't brought the language up ENOUGH to match how high we brought the decoding and the vocabulary and to match all that to the IQ (to hit where he wants to be). If what he WANTS to read isn't comprehensible to him, he tries, reads a bit, and gives up. So that's all I know to do is try to keep bringing up EVERYTHING until enough factors are up that it can click.

 

But I really don't know. I know that the more detailed our language testing, the more pieces I've found. And I have gotten more detailed testing through an SLP than through the psych. There *are* psychs who can do this, but a psych who is blowing you off might not have the tests, kwim? I got a dynamic assessment of social communication, which included a narrative language component. If you want to blow your mind, get his narrative language assessed.

 

What Lecka is describing is good stuff! Bringing that social thinking in is good. I don't think it's why my ds is not *reading*. The hyperlexia gig was showing up even with something simple like "A frog sat on a log." That wasn't a social thinking deficit. And yet, in reality, the thought process she's describing needs to come into it, yes! It's what I meant by working on all the things. I'm going to go look at that hyperlexia program Jen linked. Maybe there's more, like more levels. I haven't found anything that I thought was really, really brilliant for it. GPP worked really well, but it maxes out. I think the IS viewed N2Y as a way to work on hyperlexia, by attaching visual to words to build meaning. I agree using actually speech therapy materials to build meaning is SAFER, absolutely.

 

And yeah, I really felt like I was going out there on a limb when I turned down that IS. Our behaviorist hired her, so I thought ok this IS is going to be good. She has 20 years experience! And the more I looked at it, the more I was like well it's organized and has some good features (engagement through activities and rabbit trails, etc.), but it just didn't seem aimed at *my* kid. I just don't know exactly Wool's dc, so I still mentioned it, kwim?

Yes, I don't expect him to read for pleasure at this point because things are still slow and difficult for him. I'm concerned because yesterday I had him read a short passage well within his decoding ability. We're talking "The cat will eat. The dish will be this fish." Etc. He read it fairly easily and then asked me to please read it back to him. He told me that he never knows what he reads and that's why he likes me to read out loud. I thought that was pretty huge for him to tell me! No wonder he's totally unmotivated and tired out attempting to read anything beyond bob books if he barely comprehends what he's reading. I figured this has to be some type of glitch that we can address.

 

We've been working through Dancing Bears until we were both totally sick of it and we picked The Reading Lesson back up and he's progressing through that now, but still in the first grade level of the book. I do plan to implement daily immersive reading time on the kindle this school year to hopefully improve fluency and motivation.

 

Yes, Lecka's ideas were great, thanks! We do LOTS of discussion like that with our read alouds. Not so much with what ds reads himself, because it is on such a simple level at this point.

 

I googled about testing in my area and found a psychoeducational clinic at the state university nearby that looks very comprehensive and has good reviews so I might go that route in trying to sort things out. I do think we have many things at play here.

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When you say that the passage was within his decoding level, do you mean that he is able to work to decode the sentences? Or do you mean that he can read them with ease?

 

If he is working to decode -- sounding out the words slowly -- that can definitely affect his comprehension.

* First, his brain is working so hard just to figure out the sounds that it cannot also work out the meaning.

* Secondly, if he is decoding slowly, by the time he reaches the end of the sentence, he may have forgotten the first words of the sentence. So the individual words may have meaning for him, but when stringing them together, he loses the meaning of the group of words. Especially if he has a lower working memory.

 

In which case, the comprehension may be improved by working more on decoding.

 

There are definitely other things that can cause reading comprehension issues, particularly with autism involved, but I thought I'd mention this possibility to you, just in case.

 

DS13 has a reading comprehension disability and does much better when listening to others read. Someone recently mentioned that when listening, the child gains meaning from the emotion and inflection and pronunciation and fluency provided by the voice of the reader. But when reading to him or herself, the child either lacks that extra input of meaning, because s/he reads haltingly and/or without expression, or has to provide it for him or herself mentally, which taxes brain power.

 

That bit of insight was really helpful to me when thinking about the discrepancy between my own son's reading and listening comprehension abilities, so I thought I'd share.

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Wool, had you thought about Barton? It would give you more tools to bump that decoding and to work on the reading. Barton has words, phrases, sentences, and paragraphs for every lesson, so it lets us build to fluency at each level.

 

Has he had a CTOPP? That would be his phonological processing for dyslexia. 

 

Talking with professionals about my ds is funny. If you show the scores and ask the dyslexia tutor, they're like oh it's because he's dyslexic. If you show the same kid, scores, and work to the IS who specializes in autism, they're like oh that's because of autism. If you talk to the SLP, well they say it's EVERYTHING, lol, covering their bases. 

 

When my ds was at that stage, not understanding even the simple sentences, GPP (The Grammar Processing Program) from Super Duper did the trick. It hits some of what that hyperlexia kit 2 was working on. 

 

Have you checked your previous evals to see what data is in there to help you sort things out? Sometimes even an SLP can run the CTOPP, and they're way easier to get into and way less expensive. SLP can definitely run language testing.

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Someone pointed out to me that I'm not saying the things I'm working on. Just didn't occur to me. Right now, we're using:

 

216 Fold & Say WH Question Scenes | Book | Product Info

 

The Grammar Processing Program | Product Info (still not done, lost some ground, have caught up and are moving forward!)

 

Oxymorons Fun Deck | Product Info

 

Understanding Idioms Teaching Cards I just got this, but it's in the vein of things we've done with fun deck apps from Super Duper and found useful. I have a ton of the apps from Super Duper and we just pick one to work through occasionally.

 

Understanding Multiple Meanings Teaching Cards at Lakeshore Learning I got a 2nd deck of teaching cards yesterday from Lakeshore, can't remember what they were. If they weren't these, I'll probably order these. They're really nicely done, with not only the picture and discussion but some extra discussion questions. Lakeshore is entirely 20% off right now, which they've never done before. Not everything from them is maybe what you want, but I thought these were as nice as any speech therapy materials I have, maybe nicer, and the price was competitive. If they have a series, buy the whole series. This is definitely something my ds has issues with.

 

Tall Tales Story Telling Board Game - The Family Game of Infinite Storytelling - 5 Ways to Play  I just bought this, but we've been doing similar using playmobil. You can download the Lego storyboard software for free and use it to turn your pictures of your scenes into cells and printable text. You can apply stickers, type on it, etc. It's what we're working toward, being able to build narratives lots of ways. I know we're talking reading comprehension, but narratives, sequencing, being able to do them with other text, your own ideas, etc, all build into being able to do the skill while reading.

 

Family Pastimes Secret Door - An Award Winning Co-operative Mystery Game

Family Pastimes Round-Up - A Co-operative Game  You didn't ask for games, but games like this are cooperative and build COLLABORATION. You need collaboration to write, the ability to give and take ideas and stay calm if it doesn't go your way. So play more games, definitely. You can't play too many games. When in doubt, play games.

 

Read, Think, Cut & Paste LOVE this.

Fairy Tale Sequencing This is extremely hard for my ds. Like flip out, need strategies to stay calm, maybe we should pause this and move to intervention materials with more explicit instruction hard. And notice he has a gifted IQ! Like it's not like this should be hard. There are in-between supports and things we can do, like we can use the strips to practice summarizing, look for clue words, etc. Just the fact that it's age-appropriate and THAT HARD tells me we're hitting on a disability point for him.

 

Fables I got this charming book of Arnold Lobel fables to use with him as his narrative/summarizing skills improve. Summarizing, being able to tell the point of a story, etc., are all Common Core grade 1 skills. I know CC is controversial, but I spend a lot of time looking at it because my ds has an IEP. It's very classical, very WTM in that sense. It's appropriate for us to be wanting to work on their ability to narrate. For my ds, we needed to back up. For him, working on the sequencing strips (from picture prompts, etc.), is actually really helpful to his oral narration. And then we're building his ability to identify it and recognize it in reading, hence reading comprehension.

 

Think, Talk, Laugh!: Increase Verbal Processing Speed and Language Organization Skills This is very hard for my ds.

 

Search Catalog | Carson-Dellosa Publishing I have my workers using grade leveled workbooks from the Spotlight on Reading series by Carson Dellosa with him. They start out very concrete/real life, and they're a nice complement to the more abstract intervention, totally reading-based interventions I'm looking at. They have workbooks for cause/effect, compare/contrast, inferences, summarizing. I like 'em, and they have a low enough starting point that my ds can do them with a college age worker, not an experienced adult or intervention specialist. Oh, and they're cheap. I use a LOT of ebooks, because we can print them off and hand him 1-2 pages at a time in a file folder. He does much better with a page at a time, rather than piles of workbooks. It's kind of expensive to print so much, but it's a strategy for keeping calm. Also, by using these worksheets, not only am I getting the topic work and the compliance, but I'm also sneaking in... READING! Like when my workers just go reading him the math worksheets, I get really pissy, kwim? I give him math worksheets with word problems, and I want him READING it!! Now if there's a ton of reading on the page and the reading is not the point, maybe we flex. But to sneak in that reading, yeah, absolutely I'm using printed worksheets with that goal. It's ok to *push* that issue a bit. It's how I get in more reading at the sentence level. I might not be making paragraph and book level reading click yet, but we can get in consistent sentence reading this way.

 

Math « Books | Teacher Created Resources  this is my super favorite series for math worksheets. Again, it's not about the math, even though maybe a little bit it is. It's about getting in some reading, staying calm, building the ability to do something brief because you're told to. There are usually just a couple tasks to a page, nothing major. They're pretty witty.

 

Sequence & Write Story Tiles at Lakeshore Learning

Nonfiction Sequence & Write Tiles I'm hoping to order these. I like these two sets because they have keyword prompts to go with the pictures, score. Although I could do it myself, I get to the point where it's nice to have something done for me! And I look at them and have so many ideas for more ways to use them. At 20% off, they're still pricy but a worthy buy. Everything from Lakeshore is very nice.

6-Scene Sequencing Cards They also come in 3 and 4. I have another set that is really heavy on social thinking. These are a little more straightforward. Like if you talk with the Social Thinking people, they want you to learn not only to sequence them but to add dialogue, explain why, etc. etc. There's a TON you can do with these. The point is not where you can merely put 6 pictures in order, kwim? So then think through what that means for the fables, for narration. IEW has programs and WT does, where you do keyword outlines. So I'm just saying there are materials to support this that come in at an easier level. So we've got these more complex ways of doing it in the homeschool community, but we can step it down to simpler scenarios and bridge. Or we can transfer the techiques OVER to something that interests the dc more (comics, their special interest, etc.).

 

http://www.curriculumassociates.com/products/detail.aspx?title=ZoomInReading#ordernow  This is Zoom In reading, a tier 2/3 reading intervention for all your reading comprehension strategies. I'm not using it yet, but given what I'm seeing him do with the Spotlight series from Carson Dellosa I think doing Zoom In would be appropriate. I think it would help him get the skills over to reading. I think he's going to need that explicit instruction. I'm planning to check at the cc teacher lab to see if they have it for me to borrow, rather than buy, sigh.

 

Spotlight on Grammar (Linguisystems)--I just got this. I'm hoping it will be a follow-up to GPP. We'll see. It really inspired me, but I had other ways I wanted to use it. Like print things, chop them up, reorganize. Not just doing worksheets. I am trying to work on language flexibility, so he has more ways to construct more sentences. I think if I don't get his language complexity to keep going forward, the reading comprehension will plateau.

 

Spelling Success games--I got him all the games to go to the end of Barton. He learned them readily, but of course he can't generalize and apply any of that. The Barton names mean nothing either. My plan (shhh) is to start Spelling Power with him. I'm also weaving together Dvorak and beginning spelling. I think it will work. I have to washi tape his keyboard again, because he ripped it all off the first time.

 

immersion reading, yes

word searches from Carson Dellosa, yes.

 

My ds was not ready to do immersion reading a year ago. I don't think it's like you push and it happens. They're still kids, kwim? And they're kids with developmental delays. So we can give all this fodder and build all these skills, but it comes together when it does.

 

 

 

 

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My trouble, or funny thing, is that I've taught through the WTM/SWB sequence for writing already. I see how it should build, and I go wow that's not even his starting point. Like his starting point is WAY back here. And I think about what that's going to take, and I go ok, let's build it. And that's writing, but then I realize that working on it, ostensibly for writing, is building it for narrative language, which is then bumping up his overall language to then bump his reading comprehension.

 

So the challenge to me is to be patient and not assume skills are there. Cuz, frankly, having taught all these levels with a more typical child, it's like WOW really not there. It's clear he's going to need a lot more time, more explicit instruction. And I'll be there are people who do this natively on their own, who scaffolding acquiring cause/effect skills, summarizing skills, compare/contrast skills, inferencing, etc., all on their own. Me I really appreciate some pre-done materials. And because I'm a little insecure or whatever and because I know kids with autism don't generalize well, I find myself wanting to do it lots of ways. So let's do inferencing with speech therapy materials AND in reading AND in social thinking AND during tv AND while we read poetry and and and... Same for narratives, lots of ways, lots of tools. That would be freakish if he could sequence slips but not do it with his own thoughts in real life, kwim?

 

So it's a lot of attention to basics, which to me is very classical, very in the spirit of WTM. 

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I will tell you, when I talk with dyslexia experts, they're like oh well it will be hard, it won't be fun. I've been unwilling to push anything that didn't feel comfortably within reach without data. Like I don't think we have to violate our common sense. That's why it's important to get test scores and data.

 

I let a worker do forced reading with my ds, and he very quickly started saying he hated reading. It's really a significant issue in autism, because our kids pair feelings and stuff and have these extreme reactions. So it's helpful to have data. Like maybe it's time for a CTOPP and some language testing and to get it sorted out.

 

Also, to me, my hack list above is sorta like the Hyperlexia 2 kit Jen linked. I thought it sounded really good! I'm hoping to look at it to see if it would bring something more. At the very least the H2 kit is giving you a list of skills that might be missing...

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Wool, had you thought about Barton? It would give you more tools to bump that decoding and to work on the reading. Barton has words, phrases, sentences, and paragraphs for every lesson, so it lets us build to fluency at each level.

 

Has he had a CTOPP? That would be his phonological processing for dyslexia.

 

Talking with professionals about my ds is funny. If you show the scores and ask the dyslexia tutor, they're like oh it's because he's dyslexic. If you show the same kid, scores, and work to the IS who specializes in autism, they're like oh that's because of autism. If you talk to the SLP, well they say it's EVERYTHING, lol, covering their bases.

 

When my ds was at that stage, not understanding even the simple sentences, GPP (The Grammar Processing Program) from Super Duper did the trick. It hits some of what that hyperlexia kit 2 was working on.

 

Have you checked your previous evals to see what data is in there to help you sort things out? Sometimes even an SLP can run the CTOPP, and they're way easier to get into and way less expensive. SLP can definitely run language testing.

Yes, I posted here about Barton a couple of months ago and the consensus seemed to be that it might not be a great fit for my ds since he is strong on phonemic awareness and has been able to learn decoding (up to a point, I do think we're a bit stuck). Most people agreed that his trouble with reading probably had to do with his autism and language issues. I might bite the bullet and try anyway. When you've been working with solid phonics programs (Logic of English Foundations, Progressive Phonics, Dancing Bears) for three years maybe you just go to Barton whether you have the official dyslexia label or not.

 

I don't post here too often, but in my Barton thread I went into how ds has selective mutism and high anxiety as well as the autism diagnosis so testing is very difficult and we have basically been brushed off by psychologists saying they really can't get any useful info since he doesn't cooperate with testing. So I'm kinding of shooting in the dark and just going with what I'm able to observe from working with ds. I am checking into the psychoeducational clinic at our state university, I just learned about it recently and it looks like they specialize in teasing out complicated issues.

 

We did do CAT testing at home this spring and I got some helpful info from that. I found out ds is strong in listening comprehension, grammar, vocabulary, math computation and concepts. Reading I still have no clue because he refused to read the passages on the screen. I think that had to do with autistic rigidity. We have had vision issues ruled out by a developmental optometrist.

 

Anyway, I didn't post all of that to begin with in attempt to keep the thread focused since I KNOW comprehension is a problem and maybe I could focus on that piece and get some solutions. Obviously, the answers always end up far more complicated than that and it's back to the drawing board!

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I wish I remembered all the details of your thread, wow! Well I'm glad you explained all that. Indeed he sounds very complicated. With my ds, we're always looking at stress. Like it's a catch-22, because we want to work on things but we want to keep that stress level down. I think it's ok to TRY something and just do some trial and error. 

 

What I do is I go with my gut. Like go through a site like Super Duper or Carson Dellosa and go wow, he'd really enjoy that, that would intrigue him...

 

Will he play games with you? What does he like to do? Is there anything that he likes to do that you can bridge to what you're trying to check? 

 

When is it time to try Barton? - The Learning Challenges Board - The Well-Trained Mind Community  Ok, I found your thread! At the time he was 7, and you what you were describing was pretty close to grade level. Now he's 8, and the discrepancy is larger. Also, you received this advice...

 

 


WoolC, I've used Apples and Pears with Geezle (ASD1 but also dxed with MR) for the last four years and it's help tremendously with his spelling (and reading although he already was reading when we started). I'd definitely give Dancing Bears a good try. If you don't see any progress by mid-summer then I'd look at Barton.

 

 

I have made mistakes in the past listening to people. You really have to listen to your gut. You were asking about Barton before, and you definitely have growing discrepancy. If he's not progressing, in spite of changing programs, and if decoding is part of it, then Barton could be an option. It's really in that just try something category, kwim? Like sometimes you just have to try. 

 

I like GPP, so that's another thing that would be in the try category for me. As long as you can do stuff together, gently, at home, and not set off that anxiety, I would just try some things and roll with your gut.

 

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Did you notice Lecka's suggestion to try AAR? I haven't used it. What does your GUT tell you when you look at AAR and Barton? They're totally different tiers of instruction, like how much detail there is. I was just curious.

 

And have you done the Barton pretest? It sounds like he would pass it, but it's just one of those curious things to check.

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Did you notice Lecka's suggestion to try AAR? I haven't used it. What does your GUT tell you when you look at AAR and Barton? They're totally different tiers of instruction, like how much detail there is. I was just curious.

 

And have you done the Barton pretest? It sounds like he would pass it, but it's just one of those curious things to check.

Ok somehow I missed some of your posts but I think I'm caught up now! Thanks for describing all you're using with your ds, definitely helpful to get an idea of what is out there. I know I don't want to do AAR because I think it's very similar to Logic of English which he did levels B and C of that, but even though he could get through those levels the fluency was not there so I didn't want to push onto level D. Motivation to read the longer passages is not there so I thought we needed to SLOW down and build up the confidence levels. Yes, he's passed the Barton Pre-screening. I don't think my gut is going to let it go until we start Barton.

 

I know what you mean about seeing how those basic skills are missing and have to be remediated before you can even get to the starting point of a WTM type plan. My 6 year old has just flown past my older ds in reading, math etc, it's just so easy for him and it's like WOW, this is how a child "normally" learns. That's probably not a good term to use since every kid is different but the discrepancies are HUGE!

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Well I got AAR 1 and it got too hard.

 

But my son is really struggling to blend more than 3 sounds.

 

What is good about it is the storybooks are pretty readable. It might be easier to have a more readable story to work on comprehension.

 

But you have been doing solid programs, too.

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So a couple points before I go exercise. One, I recently read a comment in something about comprehension and autism where they were talking about the high rates of illiteracy (their term, illiteracy) in the autism community. So much for the Eides and their 13 person MRI study. No matter what the cause, clearly SOMETHING is going on. 

 

Two, I asked my dd for her take, just because she has this incredible narrative-thinking, people observant kind of brain, and she says well the issue is the social and that it's fiction. And truthfully, I'm not sure how much out and out nonfiction we've done. We have it on the math worksheets, and he's had it in some paired reading (fiction, non-fiction) reading worksheets/workbooks I got. She really may be onto something there. And she had more opinions in that vein, but I have to go. Just saying it's something we've had other people on the board saying and she's saying it's what is happening with ds, that he's connecting better with non-fiction and is therefore more inclined to tough it out. And I think tough it out is what it is when you have SLD Reading. 

 

So not just one thing, but many strands coming together, sigh. And then there's that question of how do you help him connect with social narratives better, what social narratives would interest him, etc. But now I've gotta go work out. Ate too much ice cream. :D

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Wool, I think you're really spot on there with listening to your gut. You sound more confident when you say that. At some point, these kids ARE complex, with no pat, tidy answer books. Listen to your gut and just try things and conclude yourself the semi-expert and just roll with it. What's the worst that happens?

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Wool, I think you're really spot on there with listening to your gut. You sound more confident when you say that. At some point, these kids ARE complex, with no pat, tidy answer books. Listen to your gut and just try things and conclude yourself the semi-expert and just roll with it. What's the worst that happens?

Thanks for the encouragement!

 

I ordered Barton level 1. I don't know if I'm relieved that I'm finally addressing what I think is the issue or if I'm crushed to realize that we really need it; either way we're finally moving forward.

 

I found info on the Barton site that finally helped me to decide so I thought I would share it in case anyone else is struggling to make a decision on this. Susan said that even if a student does NOT have a dyslexia diagnosis that Barton would still be beneficial if the student still struggles with spelling and slow or inaccurate reading after years of solid phonics instruction. That is clearly our situation.

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