If your child got a lousy grade in an online course.....

[Heather K.]

..... would you allow them to do extra credit to bring it up?  It was her first online course ever, and I know it was a wake-up call for her. I wouldn't make a habit of it.  Is that unethical? :confused1:

Edited July 24, 2017 by Heather K.

[RootAnn]

Nope. I would let the transcript show improvement. I assume she knew as the class was going that her grade was lousy and didn't just slapped with a surprise when final grades came out.

 

But, that's my home school. You run yours and can decide your own policy.

[Heather K.]

Actually, she was shocked.  She worked hard and thought she had a B+. I saw the parent report myself in the spring and she did. When her final grade was a C we were both floored.  Apparently she misunderstood some deadlines, partly because she didn't always remember to adjust for our time zone when times were posted.

Edited July 24, 2017 by Heather K.

[Julie of KY]

Well, I actually had an online teacher state in her syllabus that her grade was for the work done by her schedule in her course. She also stated that the parent was ultimately responsible for the final grade. The parent could change the grading criteria, add extra credit or other work to the course or alter anyway they wished. In essence, I as a parent was using her a tutor and could supplement/change the work in any way I deemed for "my" course. I haven't actually changed any grades. I have told my boys that work not graded to my standards would be reevaluated (better or worse) by me and then the course grade recalculated. In reality I haven't needed to do this.

 

She did state that if you asked for a recommendation from her, it would be based on the work she assigned.

[Roadrunner]

It's your homeschool, so you can do whatever you want. I would personally consider it unethical.

[EKS]

It depends.

 

If she didn't take the course through a credit granting institution, you can do whatever you want.  So, some options might be to adjust grades for particular assignments so that the late penalty is eliminated or reduced, add more assignments, adjust the average by changing weighting, that sort of thing. 

 

If you decide to change the grade, to keep things ethical, you need to be very clear in your course descriptions what the provider did and did not do or you need to eliminate the provider's name entirely and just describe the course as you would any of your home based courses.  Also, the grade you ultimately give your student should reflect how the student actually performed in the course.  So, eliminating late penalties due to confusion about time zones would be ethical (IMO) but changing the grade of a mediocre paper from a deserved C to an A would not.

 

 

Edited July 24, 2017 by EKS

[Fardo]

If the lower grade was due to confusion over time zones I would add on any extra points that were deducted due to late turn in and use that grade. If she had been in a regular school she wouldn't have had to worry about time zones, so it seems a bit unfair to me to penalise her based on that. 

[Tess in the Burbs]

It's up to you how you grade it.  I agree about not listing it as an outside course if you decide to give her a B.  Some of this has to be your discretion...did she try really hard?  Was the lower grade only deadline issues or her output/content/testscore??  Every online class my kids have done the teacher says the grade it up to the parent.  I hope to include grade print outs for outside classes, so I'm not changing grades for mine.  However, if it was her first class I would consider why the grade was low and maybe adjust it if in the future she doesn't have the same issues.  

We are in a different time zone and I made sure my kids knew what time in our zone assignments were due.  They are kids, they aren't thinking about timezones.  In fact, one class was pretty early in our day, so I just told my kids to be done the day prior, no exceptions.  So a little grace for her first class might be appropriate. 

[Heather K.]

She did work very hard-- in fact, she was inspired by the online interaction with peers (a first time for her) and was on her class assignments first thing every morning.  That's why I feel bad that this first experience has been somewhat demoralizing.  That is great advice to remove the outside provider and list it with my own title/description.  That answers part of the ethical dilemma. Thank you all for your input.  I expect a lot from my kids, while most of my local homeschooling friends are more... "relaxed" in their approach.  I knew I would get thoughtful input here!

[Liza Q]

  Apparently she misunderstood some deadlines, partly because she didn't always remember to adjust for our time zone when times were posted.

 

Whether or not you adjust her grade....this seems like a red flag. I can see this happening during the first quarter, when she was just getting used to it, but the final quarter? Enough to lower her grade that much?  Was it like this all year or did it start suddenly? Was something else going on? Any executive function issues?

 

If it really was all due to deadline issues due to misunderstanding, I would be planning to be on top of the deadlines myself for any online classes next year. I

[Hilltopmom]

Technically, I wouldn't call a C a lousy grade. C is average.

A bummer if you're hoping for an A, but not "lousy", not really.

 

Room for improvement, for sure. And work on that in her next course.

[Heather K.]

Whether or not you adjust her grade....this seems like a red flag. I can see this happening during the first quarter, when she was just getting used to it, but the final quarter? Enough to lower her grade that much?  Was it like this all year or did it start suddenly? Was something else going on? Any executive function issues?

 

If it really was all due to deadline issues due to misunderstanding, I would be planning to be on top of the deadlines myself for any online classes next year. I

 

Agreed. That's why changing the course description only solves part of the ethical dilemma for me.  She definitely had a diligence deficit towards the end to drop that much-- I think because she was so comfortable with her grade (as she supposed it to be).  It will absolutely be a stronger focus of her education going forward, even in her classes I teach: meet those deadlines.  Set reminders everywhere if you struggle.  Future professors, bosses, and the IRS will require it without excuse!

[Julie of KY]

I would look carefully at her grades and why they were lower than expected. If it was that she missed deadlines due to sickness - then I think she (or you) should have contacted the instructor. If she missed deadlines due to a misunderstanding, then I'd again use the opportunity to teach my student how to contact the instructor and make a case for herself. I try to follow along with my kids classes to oversee the grades and deadlines so that I don't end up at the end of the semester with a surprise. Granted we did get a surprise lower grade and I emailed the teacher for an explanation as we didn't understand why and it turned out to be a teacher mistake.

 

Now you are in the position of not having caught low grades or missed deadlines way late to correct as the semester goes along.  You have to decide why the grades are low and what is ethical to do about it. I'd also make sure that whatever the problem was, you help your student learn to stay on top of it better for future classes.

[madteaparty]

I would contact the teacher. I would not change a grade (and we have used middle school to work out these "what do you mean I need to upload homework; I did it right here on the book, see?" issues. But on the other hand, a C on the transcript without a convo with the teacher, when she had a B+ the previous semester, and when I also know the grace periods and opportunities for extra credits in some *college* classes border on the absurd, seems not quite right either.

[OnMyOwn]

I think outside grades from various providers can be pretty meaningless for homeschoolers. I think grades are helpful within a specific school system where students all within the same system are being compared, but when you are taking classes from a multitude of providers all with different standards, they don't mean much. So, I would make a standard that I expect my kids to meet in our homeschool and have their grades reflect their effort and ability.

 

For example, my ds took a coop class where Apologia was used. He got a 108 in the class because the teacher gave so much extra credit. If I had used Apologia at home with him, he would not have received a 108, but he would have received an A, so I am okay with giving him an A because he did all the work and he did well on all the tests and covered the material I wanted him to cover, but I'm not going to give him an A+. He took an online Spanish class and received a B. He worked his tail off for that grade and could not have done any better. At the end of the year, his extremely disorganized teacher said he was missing two assignments but would not clarify what the assignments were or even respond even though my son had been with this teacher for three years and had been a good student. If those two missing grades had pulled him down to a C, I would not have given him a C, but the B that I believe that he earned. The questions I ask myself are -- what level of effort did my student put into the class? Did he master the material?

 

My dd took two outside AP classes this year. She had special arrangements for both classes to either audit the class or for a reduced workload. Both teachers forgot that they had this special arrangement with her and gave her As even though they thought she hadn't turned in a lot of the required work. If they can adjust her grade based on her work and test scores, why would it be unethical for me to do so? I think the grades should reflect our homeschools and students as a whole, rather than being based on the individual grading whims of multiple outside providers.

 

So, yes, if my student had put a full effort into the class and mastered all of the material, I would not be giving them a C because of confusion over time zone differences. If it makes you feel better, you might even be able to go back to the teacher and ask for extra credit or consideration about the issue and have them bump up the grade. It's very likely within their discretion to do so.

[teachermom2834]

While I have never changed an outside grade (and we have taken many outside classes), I would if I felt it appropriate. I am the homeschool administrator and technically the teacher of record. The online class is the tool for me to accomplish the credit. I can use that tool as I see fit.

 

I have had my ds take two outside English classes and combine them for one credit or I have added to an outside class. The outside class may or may not stand alone for me. It is a tool I use to accomplish what I want my child to learn. If I feel a different grade is appropriate I would give it.

 

I am on my third high schooler now. I would be hesitant to put a C on a high school transcript. I used to be a harder grader but I have eased up. The reality is that in the public schools and private schools in my area a C is very very bad. You have to work hard to get a C. I don't agree with the shame attached to a C currently, but it is what it is. Unless my child really was barely scraping by to pass the class, I would require extra work to bring that grade up to a B and then that is what I would give.

 

I didn't used to think homeschool grades really mattered and I graded my oldest pretty tough. Then I discovered the automatic scholarships he qualified for with his ACT score required a very high GPA. I decided my philosophical objections to grade inflation, extra credit, and weighting grades were not worth costing my students thousands in scholarship money they would have qualified for if I had not been so harsh with the grades.

[Liza Q]

She definitely had a diligence deficit towards the end to drop that much-- I think because she was so comfortable with her grade (as she supposed it to be). 

 

Well...even if I did not choose to stay with the C I would not raise the grade too much. Diligence deficit = lower grade.

 

I think I would also consider her age. Is she is a 9th grader I would have had lower expectations than if she were an 11th grader.

 

And I would consider a few more things. Did handing things in late give her extra time to study? Was it a Math class, in which things are either right or wrong, or an English class, which may be more subjective? Were the assignments tests or essays?

[OneStepAtATime]

Is there any way to go back through all of her work, contact the teacher and confirm this was just deadline confusion?  I would assess based on what she ACTUALLY did, not assumptions. Look through the requirements for the class, what was expected from each assignment, what grades she got without the deadline issue, look over the assignments themselves, then look at how much you think really was an error on your daughter's part and WHY she actually missed those deadlines.  I'd do this not just for the current grade dilemma but to make sure you are addressing the real underlying issue for future classes.

 

 If she got confused on deadlines, I get that.  DD struggles with time conversion and needs a lot of external scaffolding to keep time zones straight.  I had to spend a lot of targeted time with her helping her to set up external supports to meet those deadlines.  Kids in brick and mortar still have a lot of supports in place in High School.  They are often still learning how to function as a student and are not ready for complete independence.  Maybe after you assess everything the two of you can brainstorm very specific things you and she can do for next time.  I'm sorry she is discouraged but I agree with up thread, a C is not a lousy grade or unrecoverable.  It is average.  It happens.

 

 

[Corraleno]

Would the grade have been at least a B- without any penalties for late work? If so then I would cut her some slack since this is her first online course, and I'd give her some extra work to bring up the grade. Then I'd either list the course as a home course or as a "hybrid" (online + home). 

 

All the public schools I know of provide ample extra credit opportunities to bring a grade up — even things as ridiculous as bringing in canned goods for the food drive. And even really rigorous online courses with tough standards may do things like dropping the lowest quiz grade, or offering bonus questions on tests. So I don't think it's unethical to offer some options for bringing her grade up, especially if the main problem was due to time zone issues rather than attitude issues. OTOH, if the reason for the grade was she was just slacking off and didn't care, I would be inclined to let the grade stand as the natural consequence of a bad attitude.

[FLHomeschool2000]

..... would you allow them to do extra credit to bring it up?  It was her first online course ever, and I know it was a wake-up call for her. I wouldn't make a habit of it.  Is that unethical? :confused1:

 

I made mine retake it. And she was MADDDDDD.  But I wasn't going to do anything for a class I didn't teach in a subject I knew nothing about.  The 2nd year was a struggle, but her grade was way better.  (for perspective, she stopped doing the work and nearly failed. But a D was terrible.  She ended the class with a B on the retake and bid good riddance to that subject.)

 

While we homeschool, I'm not in the practice of rewarding my student by bailing her out.    She learned a valuable lesson and now busts her buns in other classes.  I don't think that same lesson would have been earned via extra credit.

 

Oh, and I made her pay for the retake class.  

Edited August 2, 2017 by FLHomeschool2000