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A different transgender question (college dorms)


PuddleJumper1
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So - this situation is unfolding here and leads to an interesting. possible conundrum.

 

(Deleted the paragraph with the most personal information.) Thanks everyone for your thoughts and sharing!!

 

The possible conundrum is this. They are attending a college that has gender inclusive dormitories but they are not assigned to one. The dorm they are in is intended for traditional dormming (M/M and F/F). So, at what point, if any, does P's transition cause a problem for the housing situation? Technically, as P is transitioning FtM, at some point D will be rooming with a male student which no longer qualifies for the housing situation they are in (which can not be changed this close to the start of school).

 

 

Edited by PuddleJumper1
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Legally, I found this:

 

https://www.lambdalegal.org/know-your-rights/article/trans-in-college-faq

 

 

As a transgender student, do I have the right to be placed in campus housing according to my gender identity?

Yes, you have that right as long as your college or university is subject to Title IX and hasn’t specifically exempted itself from this requirement. You should know that institutions frequently use the gender marker on the application to inform campus records and practices. Find out if your college or university offers gender-inclusive housing as an option; this is particularly important for gender-nonconforming (GNC) students. Some state nondiscrimination laws also protect this right. If you or someone you know has been denied gender-appropriate housing, please contact Lambda Legal’s Help Desk at lambdalegal.org/help or (866) 542-8336.

 

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I would think room assignments need to be changed when one or both were uncomfortable with the current situation. Since neither is I think they should be allowed to carry on until they decide otherwise.  If and when P decides he is ready to move into a M/M dorm situation then P should be allowed to do it. Until then I again think it's no one else's business and they should be able to carry on. P might not feel comfortable yet sharing his space with another male or may not be fully comfortable with his gender expression (which I'm told by DD is different than gender identity). If the housing people start to get fussy (cause you know someone will complain) then it is up to them to make accommodations to house P and  D in gender inclusive dormitories.  Honestly I'd tell both kids that they should either 1. ask for new room assignment in the other dorm (and be willing to fight for it) or 2. keep their heads down for a bit until they get to know their floormates and can gauge if it's going to even be an issue. 

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I don't think it's about their comfort level as far as how the school handles it. I think the dorm has a rule to keep opposite sex out of the dorm for overnight stays. If one person has a penis and there's a "no boys allowed" rule, then I think that would cause a problem for the school. P could probably not currently stay in the male dorm if she has a vagina. I mean, if she appears to be a girl, that is what they will assume. I guess it would be best if they get in a dorm that is inclusive from the start.

 

There was one dorm that had guys and girls, but I think maybe the dorm was cut in half or different floors had different genders? I remember sleeping over in my boyfriend's dorm room once. I had to sneak out without being seen. I guess they didn't take my ID that day? I don't remember how that happened.

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I think the least problematic thing is to change room assignments.  If I knew the details I wouldn't care.  But then is it fair that the person potentially has to share these details if someone questions it?  No. 

I lived in an all female dorm, out of choice.  I would have wondered why there was a male there. 

 

Maybe the two are hoping to stay together?  Sounds like it.  Maybe something can be worked out in a mixed dorm. 

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I'd think that contacting housing would be in order. A co-ed by suite dorm with a bathroom in the suite or an apartment-type layout would be ideal through the transition and to let C and P remain roommates. Something divided by gender by floor, wing, or building, particularly with shared baths for a wing or floor would be much less likely to work without making someone uncomfortable. Most colleges now seem to have multiple layouts, with the single gender floor, bathroom at the end of the hall dorms being the older ones.

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Sorry I posted and disappeared on this one. Our internet crashed just after hitting send  :huh: And now I'm having to run out the door. I am going to read through the responses better later. Some clarifications - 

 

D is my dd18. She has no issue whatsoever with P's choices. D is 'cis-female but somewhat non-gender conforming' (her description). There is not an intimate, personal relationship between them in question either now or when P is M. They are just friends.

Gender inclusive dorms are full for the upcoming year. 

D really has no interest in changing roommates (nor does P).

The question is what will happen (or will there be a problem) when their designation goes from F/F to F/M in a traditional dorm.

 

 

 

 

Edited by PuddleJumper1
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I don't think how your dd feels about it will have any bearing on this. There is a school policy of m/m and f/f rooms. So once it becomes obvious to the resident assistant or resident director, likely the transgender student becoming male will be moved to a male dorm. It is highly doubtful that they will allow a F/M situation to continue since it is a violation of their policies. Your daughter will get a new roommate if there are people looking to change around or a late transfer student coming in. Otherwise she might end up in the room alone until the next semester.

 

If they really want to room together  maybe they could move to an apartment. At middle ds's school, students can share an apartment way cheaper than they can live in the dorms. Thankfully, they have more students than traditional dorms so only freshman are required to live in the dorms. 

 

So that's something to consider.

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They could probably get on a waitlist for the dorm where they can have mixed roommates. Some people won't show up for school or will leave during the year/semester change, especially freshman. They could let housing know their situation which I can imagine would give priority.

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I am just going to throw this out there... The two kids I know who are transgender took a long time before they were comfortable to identify completely as the other gender. I wonder if you will even need to worry about the official declaration of she becoming he this school year. Your dd should not worry about losing her roommate this year. 

 

by the way - so glad your dd is awesome!

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P doesn't have to change their M/F designation with the college until he is ready to do so.  Until his gender changes legally, I don't think the school policy would keep him out of the female dorms.  Presenting as more male in appearance doesn't instantly translate to being legally male.  The legal gender change in most states takes awhile.  We had to send a massive amount of documentation to the state and wait for a response when my brother legally changed his gender.  

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Since the roommate friend isn't there yet for being ready to make gender designation change official, most likely nothing at all needs to be done. Applying to the inclusive dorm for next year is definitely a good option to pursue, but this year it is likely to not be a problem as long as roommate doesn't consider it a problem.

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You also have to consider how are bathrooms designed in the dorms. One bathroom for the whole floor? Do they shower in a private bathroom or group bathroom? My dorm had a bathroom connecting two rooms. The other side of my bathroom was where my RA lived.

 

This particular dorm is set up like a hotel. Two people to a room with a private bathroom. Guys and girls share the floor/dorm. next door neighbor could be either guys or girls. 

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Do inclusive dorms allow male/female in the same room or just the same hall?

Same room. Can be M/M; F/F or F/M allowing for any combination the students would like. It gives more freedom in allowing the students to room with whomever they want (even if it's a brother/sister that want to room together).

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I don't think how your dd feels about it will have any bearing on this. There is a school policy of m/m and f/f rooms. So once it becomes obvious to the resident assistant or resident director, likely the transgender student becoming male will be moved to a male dorm. It is highly doubtful that they will allow a F/M situation to continue since it is a violation of their policies. 

 

This is where our concern lies but taking into consideration the following quotes it probably won't even be an issue for the first semester (possibly year) anyway.

 

Totally depends. You said P was staying with she/her for teachers and admin people, so as long as P does that, there shouldn't be a problem. 

 

 

I am just going to throw this out there... The two kids I know who are transgender took a long time before they were comfortable to identify completely as the other gender. I wonder if you will even need to worry about the official declaration of she becoming he this school year. Your dd should not worry about losing her roommate this year. 

 

by the way - so glad your dd is awesome!

 

 

P doesn't have to change their M/F designation with the college until he is ready to do so.  Until his gender changes legally, I don't think the school policy would keep him out of the female dorms.  Presenting as more male in appearance doesn't instantly translate to being legally male.  The legal gender change in most states takes awhile.  We had to send a massive amount of documentation to the state and wait for a response when my brother legally changed his gender.  

 

 

Since the roommate friend isn't there yet for being ready to make gender designation change official, most likely nothing at all needs to be done. Applying to the inclusive dorm for next year is definitely a good option to pursue, but this year it is likely to not be a problem as long as roommate doesn't consider it a problem.

 

This is a great point from all of you. I don't think P is in a hurry. Housing can always be reevaluated at winter break if need be.  Thanks for sharing the various thoughts here!

 

Ravin - really like the new picture

 

Imrich - we think she's a pretty cool kid.

Edited by PuddleJumper1
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I would assume that it won't be an issue at all for many months at minimum because legal paperwork and so forth isn't going to happen overnight and probably won't be an issue this school year. And that they would likely be grandfathered in by the school and encouraged to room in one of the inclusive dorms next year if they stay roommates. It sounds like a university with those policies is going to be at least somewhat trans friendly and hopefully nuanced and understanding and that it's not going to be an issue this year. Maybe that's too sunny a viewpoint, but I think I'd work on that assumption.

 

Good luck to your dd in starting university.

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I would assume that it won't be an issue at all for many months at minimum because legal paperwork and so forth isn't going to happen overnight and probably won't be an issue this school year. And that they would likely be grandfathered in by the school and encouraged to room in one of the inclusive dorms next year if they stay roommates. It sounds like a university with those policies is going to be at least somewhat trans friendly and hopefully nuanced and understanding and that it's not going to be an issue this year. Maybe that's too sunny a viewpoint, but I think I'd work on that assumption.

 

Good luck to your dd in starting university.

 

I get the feeling that your assumption is pretty spot on - at least I have the same sunny assumption  :)

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