Should I get a propane tank put in? Country living...

[1GirlTwinBoys]

We're on 3 acres and have two wood burning fireplace.  I'd love to get gas fireplaces but we're not on city gas line, so we would have to have a propane tank put in. Also, we have electric heat and the furnace is 20 years old and will eventually need to be replaced soon.  I'd love to not have electric heat.  Our previous home had gas heat and it was much cheaper and much warmer in the winter months.

 

Anyone else in this situation?  Thoughts on what is best?

 

 

Edited July 23, 2017 by 1GirlTwinBoys

[MommyLiberty5013]

We moved to a rural area last summer. We have LP (500 gal. tank above ground) with one gas burning FP and a gas furnace.

 

I personally like the idea of having a back up source of heat in case of emergency. (And we currently do not)

 

If I were in your position, I would keep one FP as wood burning (in case your LP tank goes empty and you cannot get an LP refill) and then convert the other FP to gas burning and swap the furnace to gas as well. Then, in my opinion all my bases would be covered. Run the house on gas, but have a wood burning FP in case. Also, to make that wood burning FP more efficient, you can install a box inside the FP (cannot recall their name) and they prevent a lot of heat from being lost wastefully.

[City Mouse]

Propane can get expensive, but it is probably cheaper than electric heat. Fire places without an insert are not very efficient of a heat source. We have two wood burning stoves which keep us toasty, but when the kids were younger I was not as comfortable leaving them home alone with a fire going.

[Selkie]

If you do get an lp tank, I wouldn't get an above-ground one. Have it buried so you don't have a big, ugly tank in your yard. 

 

We live in the country and have had gas heat for the past twenty years. It is way cheaper than electric, at least where we live. We also installed a generator that runs off the lp, which is really handy during power outages.

[Anne in CA]

We have a propane hot water heater and heater and when the power is out it is so nice to be cozy in our own space with plenty of heat and hot water, I can't even tell you...

[Pawz4me]

We have an above ground propane tank. I wouldn't want one buried on my property. If you find it unsightly (ours is shiny new and rather cute IMO ;)) it's pretty easy to conceal one with a few well chosen shrubs. We have gas logs (in a fully functional fireplace) but have electric heat. The combo works well for us. The logs aren't a tremendous source of heat but they'd keep us comfortable if the power went out.

[Wheres Toto]

We have two above ground propane tanks.  We use the propane for our heat, hot water, and stove/oven.  Underground tanks can be a big expensive clean-up if they leak, and at least around here, your homeowners insurance will charge extra and want to do tests if you have underground tanks.  (I used to live in a house with an underground tank).

 

We do occasionally run out in winter and will then use our wood-burning fireplace.  It's not a great heat source or efficient but it's good enough for the times we need it.  

 

Our heat and hot water don't work when our power is out because the water pump and fans don't run.  So, we also use the fireplace if we lose power.  We can use our propane stove without power if we hand light it.

[Miss Tick]

We had propane at our last house (not a farm) and the company came out automatically and filled it. We never ran out in the 10 years we were there. About 8 years in we noticed a small leak and they came out that day (Sunday) to address it. They also spontaneously repainted it at some point (no logo, although some of their tanks had them).

 

Good idea to be thinking ahead to cold weather here in July!

[MommyLiberty5013]

Also with LP tanks, you can buy them or rent them from the company.

 

Renting means the company cares for the tank and will maintain it for you. If you buy it, they just come to fill it.

 

I likely would not bury it. But you can probably choose where it goes and you can hide it. It likely won't be able to go near your well for sure and possibly bear your septic. There are distance rules on that to limit contamination. You can put an LP line under a driveway, it just needs to be buried further down.

[Laura Corin]

Have a look at how change of supplier works in your area.  We have a gas tank under the back lawn; it was there when we bought the house.  The supplier was expensive and useless.  Under UK law, you have the right to change supplier, but the new supplier has to be willing to take over maintenance of the tank.  Two suppliers refused because they didn't think that the previous maintenance record was good enough.  We would have had to pay for a new tank (and burying it). It was a big hassle and we feel a bit stuck with the supplier who finally accepted, because changing again could be hard.

[Carol in Cal.]

If it were me, I would study solar and see whether it would be reasonable to put in enough of a system to run the electric furnace off of it.  If not, I would add central propane heat.  I'd keep the wood fireplaces as they are and use the propane furnace as more of a backup.

[HollyDay]

My parent's had a propane tank.  Their house was all electric with a woodburning stove in the basement.  The woodburning stove was wonderful!  But it became quite a lot to keep up with over the years as they grew older.  About 20 years ago, they installed a propne tank.  They liked it.  I recall my father remarking about wishing he had done it earlier!  Theirs was above ground but not unsightly.  It was a nice tank and was well maintained.  The view from the road was naturally blocked by a holly tree.  But, again, it was a modern, clean, tank.

[Wheres Toto]

We rent our tanks from the propane companies.  We recently switched and the new company unhooked the old tanks and hooked up their tanks.  Then we just had to call the old company to come pick up their tanks.  It's pretty easy around here, a lot of people have propane.

[Liz CA]

Propane gas prices fluctuate often. Another thought is accessibility to the tank. May not be an issue in your area but when we lived in a place where it snowed a little during winter, they refused to come out and deliver. Now, if your tank is large enough, you can order delivery in October / November before things may get hairy and be all set to February / March.

[G5052]

We've had a propane tank for 20 years. It's buried in the back yard. Buried is better for safety and insurance rates.

 

No problems at all. Do ask around to see which company is best. Some will give a discount on the tank and installation if they make the deliveries. Our neighbors have all different companies, and thankfully we got the one that is decent.

 

Our company offers a budget plan so we pay the same each month. They have a program that schedules deliveries based on weather and usage, but we have had to call them a few times during a cold snap. If a major winter storm is coming, it pays to check your level. You want them to refill EARLY because they won't come if the roads are bad.

 

Also make sure that your HVAC contractor has experience with propane. Some don't.

[EmmaNZ]

Have you thought about having a ground source heat pump put in to heat your home and water? This is something we are currently considering in our old, new-to-us, country home.

[lllll]

nm

Edited August 14, 2017 by lllll

[Lanny]

Yes. I suggest you get the Propane tank and cook on a Gas Stove.  You will appreciate that if/when the power fails. Also, you will save a lot of money.

[MommyLiberty5013]

If it were me, I would study solar and see whether it would be reasonable to put in enough of a system to run the electric furnace off of it.  If not, I would add central propane heat.  I'd keep the wood fireplaces as they are and use the propane furnace as more of a backup.

 

Cost per kwh in the US is down from $8-9 a few years ago to around $5-6 if you pay to have it installed. If you self-install, it can be as low as $3-4. By comparison, in Europe it is $1-2 per kwh.

 

We just priced our home for solar about 2 months ago. To do a basic grid-tie system (24 panels on a roof mount), with no battery backup, we were looking at $28k. There is a federal tax credit until 2019 and our electric utility offers a $4k rebate to do it. But even with those, it would take 9.5 years to pay back the cost of the system. I might have done it if DH was game, but it is still too pricey for him.

 

This could be a HUGE industry and job maker in the U.S.. Climate change convo aside, which I am not getting into, solar is the way to go but it is still too cost prohibitive in the U.S..

 

Also, unless you have battery back up, if there is a power outage, you still do not have any electricity. The array generates the power, but it has to be stored somewhere and converted into an AC current, this is where the batteries come in. The batteries run $5k each, $8k to install. These are the newer lithium ones, which are still consider by many as unsafe due to fire and explosion risk. You could use the standard marine batteries, but they have a 4 year or so shelf life, whereas the L-ion ones last about 10 years.

 

[RegGuheert]

We're on 3 acres and have two wood burning fireplace.  I'd love to get gas fireplaces but we're not on city gas line, so we would have to have a propane tank put in.

I agree heating with wood can be a real PITA.  OTOH, if you have the wood, it can be very affordable.

 

Propane has the following drawbacks you should be aware of:

- The price can vary significantly.  While I don't see propane getting expensive in the U.S. in the foreseeable future, you never know what might transpire.

- Propane is heavier than air while natural gas is lighter than air.  If propane leaks into a crawl space under your house, it will wait there until a source of ignition comes along.

 

I'd love to not have electric heat.  Our previous home had gas heat and it was much cheaper and much warmer in the winter months.

If you want to get rid of electric heat because you think propane will be cheaper, I seriously doubt that is true.  But since you did not post where you live, it is hard to know.  There are basically three main types of electric heat in North America:

 

1) Resistive heaters:  This type of heat is basically 100% efficient.  But electricity is no longer $0.02/kWh, so this option can be very expensive.

2) Air-source heat pump:  This type of heat is popular in the middle latitudes of the U.S. because you can move approximately three units of heat into your house for each unit of electricity used.

3) Ground-source heat pump:  This type of heat is becoming more popular in the more northerly climates since it allows the efficiency of the air-source heat pump even in the colder climates.  But this type of system is much more expensive than an air-source heat pump.

 

Anyone else in this situation?  Thoughts on what is best?

Well, we live in VA and use an electric air-source heat pump to provide heat in the wintertime and cool during the hottest part of the summer (like now). 

 

If it were me, I would study solar and see whether it would be reasonable to put in enough of a system to run the electric furnace off of it.  If not, I would add central propane heat.  I'd keep the wood fireplaces as they are and use the propane furnace as more of a backup.

That's what we have: Photovoltaics with an air-source heat pump.  Because our state allows net metering, we are able to save up enough electricity during the summertime to cover our heating needs in the wintertime.  Our solar array produces about 18 MWh of electricity each year.

 

I would love to get rid of our propane tank.  If it weren't for the fact that MomsintheGarden likes to cook with gas, it would be long gone.

[Tina]

Having lived with electric, it is the most expensive.  Gas is currently the cheapest, I believe, with propane coming in second.  Not sure how oil compares to electric, but it's higher than gas and propane.  Up north here, we sell mostly gas furnaces, etc.

[RegGuheert]

Having lived with electric, it is the most expensive.

That is almost certainly true for resistiive electric heaters.  But electric heat pumps are typically the cheapest.  If you are in a cold climate, I am referring to ground-source heat pumps.

 

That said, ground-source heat pumps are extremely expensive to install (often over $30,000) while gas furnaces are much cheaper to install.

 

Up north here, we sell mostly gas furnaces, etc.

Makes sense.  However, OP has three acres of land, so a ground-source heat pump is a real option for them, even if they live "up north".  But OP has not said where they live, so an air-source heat pump may very well be the best option.