DS took AP Bio but that will drop to 8th grade?

[Ann.without.an.e]

If we step DS back to sophomore year again, then his 9th grade AP Bio will drop to 8th grade.  Can I still show it on his transcript for 9th grade?  If 9th grade is becoming 8th?  If not, he will need to take Bio again.

 

thanks 

[Harriet Vane]

Did ds take an AP test? If so, his scores count no matter when they are taken. They show on the College Board account for four years. After that they are archived but can still be requested for transcript purposes. You can confirm this on the College Board website.

 

If he took a class but not a test, the class still counts as moving him forward in the regimen of required stuff and does not have to be retaken. For example, my son took algebra in eighth grade. He did not have to retake algebra--he just gets to move on to more advanced math. Similarly, in eighth grade he took a general science course that most take as freshmen. He did not have to repeat it.

 

If your ds took AP biology in a homeschool co-op and did not take an AP test, he might run into difficulty getting the local high school to accept that as valid. If the course was formally approved by the College Board, then get the documentation from the teacher to prove that he has done what is required. If he took the test and scored a 3 or better you can simply take a stand on his competent score.

[Ann.without.an.e]

Did ds take an AP test? If so, his scores count no matter when they are taken. They show on the College Board account for four years. After that they are archived but can still be requested for transcript purposes. You can confirm this on the College Board website.

 

If he took a class but not a test, the class still counts as moving him forward in the regimen of required stuff and does not have to be retaken. For example, my son took algebra in eighth grade. He did not have to retake algebra--he just gets to move on to more advanced math. Similarly, in eighth grade he took a general science course that most take as freshmen. He did not have to repeat it.

 

If your ds took AP biology in a homeschool co-op and did not take an AP test, he might run into difficulty getting the local high school to accept that as valid. If the course was formally approved by the College Board, then get the documentation from the teacher to prove that he has done what is required. If he took the test and scored a 3 or better you can simply take a stand on his competent score.

 

 

He took it in a private school and scored a 3, he was hoping for higher but at least he passed.  

[Harriet Vane]

He took it in a private school and scored a 3, he was hoping for higher but at least he passed.  

 

A 3 is a respectable score that shows his competence. There is absolutely no need for him to re-take biology in high school. If he goes into a science field, he will probably have to retake it in college, but that's not a bad thing as college biology is a whole different ballgame when considering a science career. If he goes into a liberal arts field, he may never have to take biology again.

 

If anyone tries to insist that he has to re-take biology in high school, stand firm with his score.

[madteaparty]

I'm so confused about this too and nothing to contribute but a bump. I'm deciding post facto whether to call a grade 8th or 9th and the deciding factor will be if DS goes abroad for any of his high school. But because I'm doing his transcript by year rather than by subject, I can't cherry pick and put the DE from 8th or any 8th grade AP *class* on there unless I call all of 8th, 9th. But, colleges will receive his DE transcript, and I am listing any AP *scores * worth listing (just not the class--different area in transcript for the AP and standardized test scores). Makes sense?

[RootAnn]

I have not btdt, but I would list it under courses taken before 9th and put the AP score down. Clearly, it would count as (at least) high school level (which is the important determining factor for putting it on the transcript, yes?), so that is what I would do.

 

Some of us do that for math and foreign language. Science fits, too, IMO.

[RootAnn]

Dp

Edited July 20, 2017 by RootAnn

[Ann.without.an.e]

I'm so confused about this too and nothing to contribute but a bump. I'm deciding post facto whether to call a grade 8th or 9th and the deciding factor will be if DS goes abroad for any of his high school. But because I'm doing his transcript by year rather than by subject, I can't cherry pick and put the DE from 8th or any 8th grade AP *class* on there unless I call all of 8th, 9th. But, colleges will receive his DE transcript, and I am listing any AP *scores * worth listing (just not the class--different area in transcript for the AP and standardized test scores). Makes sense?

 

 

See, I just want to cherry pick, put it on there as 9th, and hope they never actually request a transcript from the school  :lol:  :mellow:

[Another Lynn]

What about doing the transcript by subject?

[Mike in SA]

We have all kinds of HS credits earned in MS.  We show them by calendar year, not by "8th" / "9th" / "10th" etc.

[EKS]

According to the College Board:

 

The AP designation may only be applied to courses offered at or above the 9th grade level which have received authorization through the annual AP Course Audit process. The AP label cannot be affixed to courses and transcripts prior to 9th grade. There is one exception to this policy: AP world language courses. These courses focus on linguistic proficiency and cultural competency, so in rare situations these courses can be successfully offered earlier than 9th grade among students who can already speak, read, and write the language with fluency. In summary, the AP Course Audit will only renew or authorize courses that are offered exclusively in grades 9–12, with the exception of AP world language programs.

 

http://www.collegeboard.com/html/apcourseaudit/faq.html

[Mike in SA]

According to the College Board:

 

The AP designation may only be applied to courses offered at or above the 9th grade level which have received authorization through the annual AP Course Audit process. The AP label cannot be affixed to courses and transcripts prior to 9th grade. There is one exception to this policy: AP world language courses. These courses focus on linguistic proficiency and cultural competency, so in rare situations these courses can be successfully offered earlier than 9th grade among students who can already speak, read, and write the language with fluency. In summary, the AP Course Audit will only renew or authorize courses that are offered exclusively in grades 9–12, with the exception of AP world language programs.

 

http://www.collegeboard.com/html/apcourseaudit/faq.html

 

That doesn't eliminate the AP score - it just means you shouldn't show the course as being an AP course.  You can still claim high school credit for the course - just not AP.  The score will eventually expire, though.

 

[EKS]

Also...I would arrange his transcript by subject and designate the courses taken prior to 9th grade with some sort of symbol (I used "M").  If you want to follow the no AP designation in middle school rule, you could simply call the course Advanced Biology (or Honors, if you're comfortable with that) and explain that the course was an AP course taken at Private School Name.  Of course, that opens up a can of worms in that the private school transcript will (might?) have his grade listed as 9th when you're saying it was 8th, and it will have the AP designation (I'm assuming).  I've heard that you don't need to send official transcripts from high schools (just colleges), but I would be ready to--and then you'll need to explain why he was in 9th grade according to the school and in 8th grade according to you.

 

ETA: I just remembered (I think) that your son will have a transcript from the private school for 10th grade, isn't that right?  So you're going to have the explaining problem no matter what, if colleges see that transcript.  In this case, I would leave all of the course titles the same as they are listed on the school's transcript.

Edited July 21, 2017 by EKS

[Ann.without.an.e]

Also...I would arrange his transcript by subject and designate the courses taken prior to 9th grade with some sort of symbol (I used "M").  If you want to follow the no AP designation in middle school rule, you could simply call the course Advanced Biology (or Honors, if you're comfortable with that) and explain that the course was an AP course taken at Private School Name.  Of course, that opens up a can of worms in that the private school transcript will (might?) have his grade listed as 9th when you're saying it was 8th, and it will have the AP designation (I'm assuming).  I've heard that you don't need to send official transcripts from high schools (just colleges), but I would be ready to--and then you'll need to explain why he was in 9th grade according to the school and in 8th grade according to you.

 

ETA: I just remembered (I think) that your son will have a transcript from the private school for 10th grade, isn't that right?  So you're going to have the explaining problem no matter what, if colleges see that transcript.  In this case, I would leave all of the course titles the same as they are listed on the school's transcript.

 

 

He was in private school for 9th and 10th grade.  We are having him "repeat" grade 10.  When he took the AP Bio class he was an official 9th grader, but those grades are now dropping to 8th grade.  Ugh, this is so confusing, right?

[EKS]

He was in private school for 9th and 10th grade.  We are having him "repeat" grade 10.  When he took the AP Bio class he was an official 9th grader, but those grades are now dropping to 8th grade.  Ugh, this is so confusing, right?

 

I remember now that we have had a discussion about this before (sorry, it's early here!).  If you remember my son's story--homeschooling 9th, going to private school second semester 10th, IB program at the school in 11th, withdrawing after first semester 11th, homeschooling for a few months, and then dual enrollment--during that whole withdrawing from 11th grade part, we had decided to put him back a grade as well (summer birthday, learning disabilities, ADHD, etc).  All the way up until the last month of dual enrollment (what we thought was his second 11th grade year) we thought he had another year of high school.  That whole time I was trying to figure out how to explain the grade level piece to colleges, since his transcript from the private school was going to say the old grade levels.  Anyway, that last month of dual enrollment it became apparent very quickly that he was done with high school, so I graduated him, and I ended up not having to explain that particular quirk in his record.

 

All of this is to say that I totally get the confusion!

[madteaparty]

We have all kinds of HS credits earned in MS. We show them by calendar year, not by "8th" / "9th" / "10th" etc.

So would your transcript have more than four groupings then? I'm trying to picture this. I am trying to make my transcript as standard as possible for comparison purposes (never mind the subjects studied, lol), so whether I list by 9th-12th or 2018-2019 I was planning on 4 "groupings", as it were.

[fourisenough]

He was in private school for 9th and 10th grade.  We are having him "repeat" grade 10.  When he took the AP Bio class he was an official 9th grader, but those grades are now dropping to 8th grade.  Ugh, this is so confusing, right?

 

I think you just footnote this on the transcript or include it in your counselor letter. Seems pretty clear and understandable when you put it this way. So, he would have 9th grade (private school); 10th grade (private school); 10th grade (homeschool); 11th grade (homeschool); 12th grade (homeschool). Wouldn't that be okay?

 

...says the totally un-informed woman whose high schoolers have both attend public school so I didn't even have to deal with this stuff! But, the above seems logical to me.

[snowbeltmom]

Fwiw, my son took AP Physics in 8th grade.  I listed it on his transcript as "AP Physics", listed the grade level as 8th grade, gave him high school credit for it, and listed his AP score.  

 

Imo, the purpose of the transcript is to relay to the admission committees the course of study a student has undertaken. The AP designation conveys significant information to the admission committees.  I was not about to omit the AP label just because my son took the class at a younger age than the College Board felt was appropriate. I know I defied the College Board rules, so  I guess that makes me somewhat of a rebel. :D 

 

[madteaparty]

Fwiw, my son took AP Physics in 8th grade. I listed it on his transcript as "AP Physics", listed the grade level as 8th grade, gave him high school credit for it, and listed his AP score.

 

Imo, the purpose of the transcript is to relay to the admission committees the course of study a student has undertaken. The AP designation conveys significant information to the admission committees. I was not about to omit the AP label just because my son took the class at a younger age than the College Board felt was appropriate. I know I defied the College Board rules, so I guess that makes me somewhat of a rebel. :D

Is your transcript by subject? Or did the 8t grade AP physics sit there by its lonely self?

I need to know what to do about APs or DE classes taken in 7th and 8th. I see some people designate a heading with "courses taken before high school" but that almost feels like taking a liberty because we are told over and over again that adcoms only care about classes taken in high school. I know I'd list the AP score but trying to figure whether the class needs included.

[EKS]

Is your transcript by subject? Or did the 8t grade AP physics sit there by its lonely self?

I need to know what to do about APs or DE classes taken in 7th and 8th. I see some people designate a heading with "courses taken before high school" but that almost feels like taking a liberty because we are told over and over again that adcoms only care about classes taken in high school. I know I'd list the AP score but trying to figure whether the class needs included.

 

I don't think this is true though.  For example, the University of Washington makes you input all of your courses into their own transcript form.  And that form has a space for high school courses taken in 7th and 8th grade (and there are spaces on the form for all subjects, not just math and foreign language).  

[snowbeltmom]

Is your transcript by subject? Or did the 8t grade AP physics sit there by its lonely self?

I need to know what to do about APs or DE classes taken in 7th and 8th. I see some people designate a heading with "courses taken before high school" but that almost feels like taking a liberty because we are told over and over again that adcoms only care about classes taken in high school. I know I'd list the AP score but trying to figure whether the class needs included.

 

I have read many times on these boards that adcoms only care about classes taken in high school, but I haven't found that statement to be  true in my experience, having gone through this process now with two kids. 

 

I list high school level classes in math, science, and foreign language taken in middle school on the high school transcript.  I organize my transcript by subject, but also have a field that states what grade the class was taken.  All three of my kids have been awarded high school credit for classes taken in middle school.  In your situation, I would list all of the DE and AP classes, regardless of subject, on your son's transcript.

 

I don't agree with the sentiment that listing these classes on the transcripts is "padding the transcript."  I believe that listing these classes is presenting a complete picture of my kids' educations.  I make it perfectly clear that some classes were taken before the official start of high school, so no one would think that my kids accomplished all the courses listed on the transcript in just 4 years.

 

The adcoms can obviously choose to ignore these classes. But, I would rather have the classes ignored than to have an adcom wonder why my kid  never studied geometry, which would happen if I didn't list classes taken in middle school on the transcript.

 

[Mike in SA]

So would your transcript have more than four groupings then? I'm trying to picture this. I am trying to make my transcript as standard as possible for comparison purposes (never mind the subjects studied, lol), so whether I list by 9th-12th or 2018-2019 I was planning on 4 "groupings", as it were.

Funny enough, our local schools don't group by year. They group by subject area. It works well for asynchronous home schoolers.

 

One could also group by year, and have a fifth grouping for "credits earned prior to HS." That approach is very common.

[chiguirre]

You can explain the double 10th grade in your counselor's letter. It shows a lot of maturity to realize that he needs to back up and redo a year after a medical issue. You can turn that into a positive.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I included math and foreign language taken before ninth grade, with a course grade and credit used in calculating gpa. This was consistent with state practice in the state we lived in when we started high school.

 

I chose those subjects because I thought they could clearly be seen as high school level work.

 

Eta: I think when you have a DR grade or AP score there is no question that it was at least high school level.

 

I don't think colleges are ONLY interested in what was done during grades 9-12. I do think they want to see that high school was full. I think what might cause concern is if there were really light high school years with the explanation that the other courses were done during middle school. That might start to look like the student isn't taking a full load.

Edited July 22, 2017 by Sebastian (a lady)

[Harriet Vane]

Is there a reason you need to group by year?

 

When I did my dd's transcript, I grouped everything by subject. On the curriculum summary (requested by two schools), I did include a small, asterisked note that two courses were completed prior to ninth grade.

 

Dd was accepted at every school to which she applied, and she is currently a student at a flagship uni.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I also did a subject transcript. It shows the courses taken in chronological order with the year and grade in which they were completed.

[rbk mama]

I included math and foreign language taken before ninth grade, with a course grade and credit used in calculating gpa. This was consistent with state practice in the state we lived in when we started high school.

 

 

I want to include courses taken before 9th in the transcript, but is it necessary to give a grade and credit?  I was planning to simply have a box on the side that says:

Courses taken prior to 9th grade: 

Algebra

Geometry

Algebra 2/Trigonometry

Physics, algebra based (included because DS took the physics SAT 2 then)

Computer Science with AP exam

 

Is that OK?  It's not easy keeping that transcript to one page!  At least not with the by-subject-and-year grid format.  Just managed to squeeze in "Fine Arts" and "Physical Education"  :rolleyes: (for box checkers only, since he has significant extracurriculars in music and sports), and I cannot imagine adding FIVE more lines!  Also, if a student has taken a full load all through high school, why would he need to count the credits from middle school?  I've never understood that.

[madteaparty]

I want to include courses taken before 9th in the transcript, but is it necessary to give a grade and credit? I was planning to simply have a box on the side that says:

Courses taken prior to 9th grade:

Algebra

Geometry

Algebra 2/Trigonometry

Physics, algebra based (included because DS took the physics SAT 2 then)

Computer Science with AP exam

 

Is that OK? It's not easy keeping that transcript to one page! At least not with the by-subject-and-year grid format. Just managed to squeeze in "Fine Arts" and "Physical Education" :rolleyes: (for box checkers only, since he has significant extracurriculars in music and sports), and I cannot imagine adding FIVE more lines! Also, if a student has taken a full load all through high school, why would he need to count the credits from middle school? I've never understood that.

Well one example would be like snowbeltmom said, if geometry was taken in middle school, it won't otherwise show up on the transcript and that might be a problem if someone is checking boxes on the other end. Another reason would be, in our case, DS has a couple of DE classses he took in middle school, and will have DE from at least 3 institutions by the time high school is over. The adcoms will receive those grades anyway, so the only place I can organize all that info in a somewhat coherent manner is the transcript I write.

Does it really need to be only one page. Oh man.

Edited July 23, 2017 by madteaparty

[snowbeltmom]

I want to include courses taken before 9th in the transcript, but is it necessary to give a grade and credit?  I was planning to simply have a box on the side that says:

Courses taken prior to 9th grade: 

Algebra

Geometry

Algebra 2/Trigonometry

Physics, algebra based (included because DS took the physics SAT 2 then)

Computer Science with AP exam

 

Is that OK?  It's not easy keeping that transcript to one page!  At least not with the by-subject-and-year grid format.  Just managed to squeeze in "Fine Arts" and "Physical Education"  :rolleyes: (for box checkers only, since he has significant extracurriculars in music and sports), and I cannot imagine adding FIVE more lines!  Also, if a student has taken a full load all through high school, why would he need to count the credits from middle school?  I've never understood that.

 

I would include grades on everything as I have read that some colleges will convert non-graded or Pass/Fail grades to C's when the college does its internal gpa calculation.  The classes the kids at my local high school take in middle school are included on their transcripts.  The letter grade is also listed, and that letter grade is calculated in their high school gpa's.

 

Off on a tangent, but I just want to make sure that you are aware that if your son took the Physics SAT 2 in middle school, you must submit a written request to the College Board before the end of that school year requesting that the College Board retain your son's score.  Otherwise, the College Board will purge the exam score from his testing record.

 

AP scores from middle school are automatically retained on the AP testing record, so there is no need to submit a written request in this situation.

 

 

[rbk mama]

I would include grades on everything as I have read that some colleges will convert non-graded or Pass/Fail grades to C's when the college does its internal gpa calculation.  The classes the kids at my local high school take in middle school are included on their transcripts.  The letter grade is also listed, and that letter grade is calculated in their high school gpa's.

 

Off on a tangent, but I just want to make sure that you are aware that if your son took the Physics SAT 2 in middle school, you must submit a written request to the College Board before the end of that school year requesting that the College Board retain your son's score.  Otherwise, the College Board will purge the exam score from his testing record.

 

AP scores from middle school are automatically retained on the AP testing record, so there is no need to submit a written request in this situation.

 

OK, so how do you keep it to one page - or don't you?  Somehow I thought that was important.  I wonder if I can add grades/credits to that small box on the side.  (And every time I recalculate the GPA it feels more and more absurd to me; oh well.)

 

Yes, thanks, I did know about the SAT scores before 9th being purged - started a panicked thread on these forums about it at the time!  LOL  Spoke with a few less than helpful College Board people about it before I got to a very helpful person who allowed me to just email him my request (it was past the date).  I sent in a written request as well just to be sure.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I want to include courses taken before 9th in the transcript, but is it necessary to give a grade and credit? I was planning to simply have a box on the side that says:

Courses taken prior to 9th grade:

Algebra

Geometry

Algebra 2/Trigonometry

Physics, algebra based (included because DS took the physics SAT 2 then)

Computer Science with AP exam

 

Is that OK? It's not easy keeping that transcript to one page! At least not with the by-subject-and-year grid format. Just managed to squeeze in "Fine Arts" and "Physical Education" :rolleyes: (for box checkers only, since he has significant extracurriculars in music and sports), and I cannot imagine adding FIVE more lines! Also, if a student has taken a full load all through high school, why would he need to count the credits from middle school? I've never understood that.

There are board members who don't include the grades. I chose to because the state we lived in used grades so it didn't seem that out of place for me to do it. Foreign language included Lukeion Project Latin which was a hard class. I thought they deserved the A they had earned.

 

I would just be consistent. Don't count the grade for one class but not from others taken before 9th (Of the courses you are listing. In other words if you count the grade for algebra also count the grade for geometry if they were both taken before 9th.) Or explain clearly why one and not the other ex. one was home based and one was an online course with grades.

 

I've heard the thing about pass fair being assigned a C grade. I don't know how widespread that is. I'm not sure that schools with this policy would do this to courses taken early.

 

I can fit lots of courses on a one page transcript. I use a small but clear font (Candara) and have two columns of courses. I also have a box for gpa and another for test scores. When I moved info like student name and school address into the header it opened up more room on the page.

[snowbeltmom]

OK, so how do you keep it to one page - or don't you?  Somehow I thought that was important.  I wonder if I can add grades/credits to that small box on the side.  (And every time I recalculate the GPA it feels more and more absurd to me; oh well.)

 

Yes, thanks, I did know about the SAT scores before 9th being purged - started a panicked thread on these forums about it at the time!  LOL  Spoke with a few less than helpful College Board people about it before I got to a very helpful person who allowed me to just email him my request (it was past the date).  I sent in a written request as well just to be sure.

 

I kept it to one page, and I have quite a bit of middle school stuff on the transcript.  However, I don't think that there would be any issue at all if the transcript was longer than 1 page.

 

[Caroline]

Our public schools do transcripts by subject. Middle school grades for high school credit are on the transcript, however they are not included in the GPA calculation.

[Harriet Vane]

OK, so how do you keep it to one page - or don't you?  Somehow I thought that was important.  I wonder if I can add grades/credits to that small box on the side.  (And every time I recalculate the GPA it feels more and more absurd to me; oh well.)

 

 

 

 

I submitted one page.

 

One side had courses, credit hours, and grades. These were arranged by subject. Dd took a few AP exams, so I included the AP score with an asterisk next to the course title. Like so:

 

                       World History  *AP score: [number]

 

At the top of this page I also listed student name, homeschool name, DOB, SSN, gender, address, phone, email, GPA, graduation date, date of transcript, and my contact information as the education contact. I did it this way to mirror the information that is included on a standard public school transcript. When dealing with a large bureaucracy, it's best that you give them a way to check all their boxes or they become distressed. :)

 

The other side listed schools (homeschool, dual enrollment CC, one class taken at a local private school), standardized test scores (AP, CLEP, SAT, ACT, etc.), employment, internships, achievements/awards, activities, and volunteering.

 

For transcripts, it's perfectly acceptable to use tiny font (10 pt.), abbreviations, and multiple columns. Frankly, the transcripts public high schools provide are often hard to read and not very nice looking. Just make sure you include ALL the information that makes your kid look awesome and make sure it is clear and organized. It'll be okay.

 

[Mom22ns]

I want to include courses taken before 9th in the transcript, but is it necessary to give a grade and credit? I was planning to simply have a box on the side that says:

Courses taken prior to 9th grade:

Algebra

Geometry

Algebra 2/Trigonometry

Physics, algebra based (included because DS took the physics SAT 2 then)

Computer Science with AP exam

 

Is that OK? It's not easy keeping that transcript to one page! At least not with the by-subject-and-year grid format. Just managed to squeeze in "Fine Arts" and "Physical Education" :rolleyes: (for box checkers only, since he has significant extracurriculars in music and sports), and I cannot imagine adding FIVE more lines! Also, if a student has taken a full load all through high school, why would he need to count the credits from middle school? I've never understood that.

This is what I did. There was a box on the transcript with high school level courses taken prior to 9th grade. They were listed there in paragraph form so it was small. It was just in case they were checking boxes. All the work they needed grades for had grades. I can't imagine anyone assigning grades to these. I wouldn't have used P/F or not given grades for classes taken in high school.

Edited July 24, 2017 by Momto2Ns

[snowbeltmom]

This is what I did. There was a box on the transcript with high school level courses taken prior to 9th grade. They were listed there in paragraph form so it was small. It was just in case they were checking boxes. All the work they needed grades for had grades. I can't imagine anyone assigning grades to these. I wouldn't have used P/F or not given grades for classes taken in high school.

Assigning grades to these high school level classes taken in middle school is a wide-spread practice, at least at the public schools in my area.  My guess is that colleges that are box-checking are expecting a grade to be assigned to the classes they are "box-checking."  By not listing grades, you may run the risk of having a school assign a grade of C to all of the ungraded classes, regardless of when the class was taken. 

 

As with everything, ymmv.