Katy Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 Give me your best hiding places for a seven year old that's stealing stuff. Being intentionally vague for privacy. Yes, this is about new foster again. All thoughts of alcohol or anything else being the cause is gone. The child was playing dumb. Conduct Disorder and/or RAD are high on the list now. In the past few days we busted the child for framing a sibling for breaking rules multiple times. Multiple things have gone missing when only this child had access - from toys at the therapist's office to the key to our knives and chemicals (which are now safely out of the house). Also tried to harm multiple animals - poison one and strangle another. We filed a ten day notice to move the child but with behaviors this severe another home may take a while. My thought is that this kid should be in a therapeutic group home that starts as a nearly locked down facility with 24/7 supervision that lets them earn privileges, but the social worker isn't there yet. We may end up calling the police to get this child out. If this child attempts to hurt or molest another child in this house again, we will be calling the police. In the mean time, missing stuff.... We've gone through the child's room multiple times. We can't find the stash. Are wondering if the key was swallowed, and the rest of the time it's being thrown out, but we don't know. The child does have a weird fascination with trash. And spends A LOT of time in the bathroom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: Loose floor boards? Buried in the backyard? Flushed down the toilet? I don't suppose there is anyway to set up surveillance cameras then deliberately leave something out they might take so you can maybe see where they hide it? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MommyLiberty5013 Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 (edited) Floor vents. Mattresses. Tops of ceiling fan blades. Physical orifices, yuck. Other kids' rooms. Toilet tank. Food containers. House exterior vents. I don't understand, has this child harmed your others??? And s/he is still with you? Edited July 20, 2017 by MommyLiberty5013 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janeway Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 Put locks on your bedroom door and/or closet doors. I had to do that here, just because of a toddler who can open every door and runs off with things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katy Posted July 20, 2017 Author Share Posted July 20, 2017 (edited) Yes, physically hurt two children and molested another. There's a safety plan in place to prevent this from recurring, but I am physically not able to supervise 24/7, and child apparently needs less than 3 hours sleep a night. DH can no longer be alone with them, so it's me and me alone. Child understands that the next time someone is hurt in this house they will be arrested. DH talked about putting a GPS tracker in something that child would steal, but I don't see how we can choose what would go missing. Edited July 20, 2017 by Katy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
displace Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 Maybe directly into garbage bin that has already been removed? Garage, cluttered areas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lang Syne Boardie Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 Katy. Can the other children in them home be moved to a relatives house while you're waiting on the system? Move them today? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katy Posted July 20, 2017 Author Share Posted July 20, 2017 Katy. Can the other children in them home be moved to a relatives house while you're waiting on the system? Move them today? Yes, smaller non-foster child and smaller pets have been moved to a relative's home. 14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anne Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 (((Katy))) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katy Posted July 20, 2017 Author Share Posted July 20, 2017 I don't know how you who make the choice to parent RAD kids do it. I feel like I'm looking into the face of evil multiple times per day. Or possibly bipolar. When child pretends to be nice you'd think they are the sweetest and most thoughtful child on earth. Then a switch flips and it's clear the sweetness is manipulation. Then the evil begins, but it's usually covert. It takes direct confrontation to see outright defiance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lang Syne Boardie Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 (((Katy))) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katy Posted July 20, 2017 Author Share Posted July 20, 2017 Maybe directly into garbage bin that has already been removed? Garage, cluttered areas? Sorry, missed this earlier. Garage is locked. Trash seems like the most likely option. A therapist we know suggested checking underwear, sadly enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rachel Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 Oh Katy! I have so much sympathy for you and I just am so sad that some kids become like this. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 between a mattress and box springs (especially on bunk beds) was a favorite spot. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katy Posted July 20, 2017 Author Share Posted July 20, 2017 (edited) I took the mattress off the bed yesterday, it wasn't there. There's a wood frame beneath not a boxspring. Sigh. edited to remove pronoun Edited July 20, 2017 by Katy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guinevere Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 My kid just ran in and hid his stuff in MY closet. He doesn't know I saw him, and I think it's pretty funny he chose that! Maybe it is hidden by virtue of the unexpected, instead of by good hiding. Maybe it will turn up if you check more obvious of places? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guinevere Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 If pronouns are important, you've got one in post #5, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katy Posted July 20, 2017 Author Share Posted July 20, 2017 If pronouns are important, you've got one in post #5, too. Thanks, removed that too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guinevere Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 If it's been a long time that you've been looking for this item, is it possible child could be moving it around? You checked the bed yesterday, maybe should check again today, AND tomorrow. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valley Girl Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 (edited) You said the kid spends a lot of time in the bathroom? Unfold towels and shake them out... empty cabinets and look inside any boxes that may be open... look inside the tank... pay special attention to little-used items that could hold something (i.e. a vaporizer). I'm sorry you're dealing with this (and sorry for the kid, too). Stay safe. ETA: Go through the child's dresser and closet. Check pants pockets and socks to make sure nothing's tucked inside. (I'm assuming it's a key you're looking for?) Look for any carpet edges turned up in the bedroom. Edited July 20, 2017 by Reluctant Homeschooler 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selkie Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 Hugs to you. What a sad and awful situation. :( 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxbridgeacademy Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 (edited) Under furniture that you wouldn't think they could or would move. We have a stand fan with a base, DSD was keeping.... stuff... under it. In pockets of clean clothes, behind dressers (or in them, pull out bottom drawer see if it is behind it), inside of rolled up socks, I kept things in all these places as well as bed frame, inside shoes, under the couch (since I was the only one who cleaned the living room), I never kept anything illegal just stuff I wanted to keep from my nosy sisters. Edited July 20, 2017 by foxbridgeacademy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arctic Bunny Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 I'd like to join in the hugs... What about couch/chair cushions that have covers with zippers? Pillow protectors with zippers? Dog bed? Food containers? Cereal box? Thinking of my own pantry, that sounds like a lot of work to go through. Maybe yours is already locked up! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SebastianCat Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 Are there books within this child's reach? A key or other small item could be hidden between pages of books or magazines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katy Posted July 20, 2017 Author Share Posted July 20, 2017 Yes, tons of books. The bathroom might explain why there was a handful of cotton balls in the toilet the other day. I never checked under the rug in that bedroom. Thanks for the new ideas!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoobie Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 Could be flushed away in the bathroom. I am so sorry for you, your family, and ultimately the child. What a life. :grouphug: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jewellsmommy Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 (edited) If we're talking RAD like you think, then it was most likely buried into the trash to be unnoticed or flushed. S/he probably didn't take because s/he wanted it but to instead deprive others of it. I know I sound harsh, but I have first hand experience. ETA: :grouphug: sorry for your family and this child :crying: . Even though I know what I know, I still have a hard time accepting that it is possible to fundamentally break a child as badly as these children are broken. Edited July 20, 2017 by jewellsmommy 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luuknam Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 (edited) In shoes or boots? Might possibly be able to fit into an empty shampoo bottle (that you're unaware is empty (could fill it with water to make it seem full))? Inside play-doh in a play-doh container? Under car seat? Realistically, if it's something as small as a key, then I think your odds of finding it at pretty small. The kid could probably have smuggled it outside and tossed it into the bushes or w/e. Edited July 20, 2017 by luuknam 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QueenCat Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 Yes, physically hurt two children and molested another. There's a safety plan in place to prevent this from recurring, but I am physically not able to supervise 24/7, and child apparently needs less than 3 hours sleep a night. DH can no longer be alone with them, so it's me and me alone. Child understands that the next time someone is hurt in this house they will be arrested. DH talked about putting a GPS tracker in something that child would steal, but I don't see how we can choose what would go missing. Honestly, with this, I'd tell them they HAVE to get the child today. I couldn't tolerate the molestation of my own child over that of this other child. Or you take the child to them. You have done your part in helping. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prairiewindmomma Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 FWIW, biometric safes are around $200 on amazon now, and available with prime delivery if you have other things you need to protect. Good luck with the next 10 days. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katy Posted July 20, 2017 Author Share Posted July 20, 2017 Honestly, with this, I'd tell them they HAVE to get the child today. I couldn't tolerate the molestation of my own child over that of this other child. Or you take the child to them. You have done your part in helping. I wish it were this simple, but legally it is apparently not. If this child was a little older it would be that easy, but at 7 experts still argue they are "fixable" or "savable." I literally had one therapist warn me that if I filed a ten day notice on this child my family would get labeled as difficult. Label away, we were very clear what types of children we would take in and what kind we would not and this is clearly in the NEVER category. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandra Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 (((Hugs))) I am scared for you. Keep safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QueenCat Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 I wish it were this simple, but legally it is apparently not. If this child was a little older it would be that easy, but at 7 experts still argue they are "fixable" or "savable." I literally had one therapist warn me that if I filed a ten day notice on this child my family would get labeled as difficult. Label away, we were very clear what types of children we would take in and what kind we would not and this is clearly in the NEVER category. So what would happen to you legally if you took him/her to the caseworker and walked out without him/her? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawthorne44 Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 I wish it were this simple, but legally it is apparently not. If this child was a little older it would be that easy, but at 7 experts still argue they are "fixable" or "savable." I literally had one therapist warn me that if I filed a ten day notice on this child my family would get labeled as difficult. Label away, we were very clear what types of children we would take in and what kind we would not and this is clearly in the NEVER category. They are so short-sighted when they do this. We have pondered fostering or adopting. It is this precise reason that we aren't and I know I'm not the only one. I think we'd make a loving wonderful home for a child. But I start to feel literally ill at the thought of a RAD child in my home. I have many friends who foster and I don't believe they'd be up-front about it. I also know myself well enough that if something bad happened I'd be the one in jail. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katy Posted July 20, 2017 Author Share Posted July 20, 2017 I honestly don't know what would happen if I just dropped them off. I suspect we'd lose our foster license at the very least, and I might get charged with something along the lines of abandonment or child endangerment. If I honestly think there is an emergency and a reasonable judge would agree there is no way we can care for this child another minute I can get emergency care, but honestly the child would probably come back to us when the "emergency" ended. I just need to make a good faith effort to appear to be doing the right thing. It's definitely true that not everyone should be a foster parent. I don't think I should be a parent of a RAD kid. I don't know how those that do it function. It must be a more selfless form of love than I know. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldberry Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 ETA: :grouphug: sorry for your family and this child :crying: . Even though I know what I know, I still have a hard time accepting that it is possible to fundamentally break a child as badly as these children are broken. It's horrifying and heartbreaking at the same time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldberry Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 I wish it were this simple, but legally it is apparently not. If this child was a little older it would be that easy, but at 7 experts still argue they are "fixable" or "savable." I literally had one therapist warn me that if I filed a ten day notice on this child my family would get labeled as difficult. Label away, we were very clear what types of children we would take in and what kind we would not and this is clearly in the NEVER category. I would not work with these people any long if that is the attitude (once you resolve this situation). 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmmetler Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 Inside a mattress or upholstered furniture? A slice at a seam under a cushion or a sheet could be almost invisible. I hope you get an alternative placement soon. Eveeyobe in the family needs to be able to be safe at home. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TechWife Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 (edited) Inside zippers of upholstered cushions (don't forget bean bag chairs) inside the zipper of a bed pillow Under the insoles of shoes taped to the bottom of a drawer between the bottom drawer and the floor of the dresser/chest taped to the bottom of almost anything that rarely gets turned over (flour canister, kitchen garbage can, step stool, kitchen chairs, etc.) hidden inside of powdered laundry detergent or cereal - anything that would take a while to get to the bottom of (allowing for time to move the item to another location) between the screen and the window (look up) on the back side of window treatments and in rod pockets behind posters on the wall framed pictures - just taped behind them or between the picture and the back of the frame (actually take it apart) cat litter box if the item is small, it could be laying flat on top of a door frame flower pots (take the plant out) Do you need ideas for looking outside? ETA: On dressers/nightstands/kitchen cabinets or other items with drawers: items could be taped to the backs and sides of the drawers as well as under the drawers. Also, take out the top drawer of the piece of furniture and then feel up (the bottom of the top of the furniture). Take all of the drawers out of the furniture at one time to expose blind spots on the frame - the back and sides of the dresser itself. Edited July 21, 2017 by TechWife 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TechWife Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 Also :grouphug: :grouphug: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katy Posted July 21, 2017 Author Share Posted July 21, 2017 No, kiddo is never outside unsupervised. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom25girls Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 :grouphug: :grouphug: Thank you for trying. :grouphug: :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeLovePassion Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 In the toilet tank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 I honestly don't know what would happen if I just dropped them off. I suspect we'd lose our foster license at the very least, and I might get charged with something along the lines of abandonment or child endangerment. If I honestly think there is an emergency and a reasonable judge would agree there is no way we can care for this child another minute I can get emergency care, but honestly the child would probably come back to us when the "emergency" ended. I just need to make a good faith effort to appear to be doing the right thing. It's definitely true that not everyone should be a foster parent. I don't think I should be a parent of a RAD kid. I don't know how those that do it function. It must be a more selfless form of love than I know. Then get emergency care for as long and as often as you can until they find an alternate placement. Or get the child into a children's psych unit as a danger to others. This is beyond your ability to handle and it is not your fault that social workers placed a child with you who is more than you can handle. Do you have safe sleeping arrangements, some 24 hour watch system, for all in the house, or is everyone in danger during the night? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 No, kiddo is never outside unsupervised. Sounds like kiddo needs to never be unsupervised anywhere, anytime. 24/7 inside and out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 Or call 911. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 When I was a foster parent, I knew other foster parents who ended up in serious danger themselves due to situations that sounded along the lines of what you describe. I thought I already posted on that, but don't see my post. Anyway, things like being stabbed by a pencil. I don't know what the missing item(s) is / are, but I'd put family safety ahead of finding whatever it is unless it itself is something that might cause death or injury if not soon found. And in that case, that is yet another reason for a call to 911. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 This thread is just heartbreaking. My 7yo is so sweet and innocent. There is a spot in Hell for the people that can damage a child like this. And I hope a spot in jail too. Op, hugs. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katy Posted July 21, 2017 Author Share Posted July 21, 2017 Then get emergency care for as long and as often as you can until they find an alternate placement. Or get the child into a children's psych unit as a danger to others. This is beyond your ability to handle and it is not your fault that social workers placed a child with you who is more than you can handle. Do you have safe sleeping arrangements, some 24 hour watch system, for all in the house, or is everyone in danger during the night? I set up video baby monitors with a sound alarm so I can keep a watch on this child. When I have to go to the bathroom or something I take the monitor with me. Everyone else in the house locks bedroom doors. This thread is just heartbreaking. My 7yo is so sweet and innocent. There is a spot in Hell for the people that can damage a child like this. And I hope a spot in jail too. Op, hugs. That's the thing. Apparently children have very little rights. Multiple cases of founded child abuse, no jail time. I may end up working as an activist and try to get the constitution changed to give children some rights. As it stands right now, parents have a constitutional right to parent, and it cannot be taken away except under dire circumstances. So social workers have a duty to try and give parenting classes but keep kids at home with their abusers. Let's take other forms of abuse out of the equation for the sake of argument. IMO assault and battery against a child the way these kiddos have been hurt should have the exact same consequences or worse as hurting an adult: aggravated battery is typically a few years in jail. If these parents were in jail for the known incidents, and if kids had a right to stability and freedom from abuse ie: if they were out of the care of the parents, parents rights were terminated at 6 months (with obvious exceptions for things like military tours of duty and extended illness, etc), that would go a long way towards protecting children. As well as less children being born to convicted abusers. To keep things out of the political realm, let me be clear that I am talking about what would clearly be defined as assault and battery. I am not talking about something many parents use like spanking. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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