The Inconsistent Tester

[RegGuheert]

Our twins could not be more different, beginning with one being a girl and the other being a boy.  I could go on and on, but the difference I wanted to discuss in this post is this: DS15 is uber steady while DD15 is ADD to the extreme.  Steady is something I get (although DS15 is far more steady than I am) while ADD is more foreign to me.  My experience with ADD is through marriage: MomsintheGarden is quite ADD, but I think DD15 has that characteristic in spades.

 

Now that the twins have started doing intensive PSAT prep, what I see with DD15 is very inconsistent test scores.  Below are some scores to give you an idea of what we are seeing.  The tests are the official SAT practice tests from the College Board.

 

DD15:

 

Practice SAT 1:   R&W: 670   Math: 740   Overall: 1410

Practice SAT 2:   R&W: 730   Math: 640   Overall: 1370

 

Perhaps the tests were somewhat different, you say?  Well, here are the results from her twin:

 

DS15:

 

Practice SAT 1:   R&W: 730   Math: 740   Overall: 1470

Practice SAT 2:   R&W: 730   Math: 730   Overall: 1460

 

Let me be clear:  DD15 is at least as bright as DS15 and DS17.  In fact, I think she is probably brighter.  While her overall score is typically lower than her brothers' scores, she nearly always beats both her brothers handily in at least one section on the test.  For instance, on last year's PSAT, she scored 12/15 on the Math No Calculator section while her brothers each got 10/15.

 

As you can see from my lead paragraph, I tend to attribute this inconsistency to DD15's ADD characteristics.  Not only do I think she gets bored while taking the test, I think she gets bored WITHIN EACH SECTION of the test.  In our proctored home tests, she cannot stay seated for the entire time.  She wraps up the section, does a quick check, then gets up and leaves.

 

Me: "Go back, sit down, and check your work."

DD15:  "I already DID check my work!"

 

Please tell me about your inconsistent testers.  Here are a few questions:

- Do you have any testers whose math and or R&W scores move around as much as DD15's do?  (up to 100-point swings!)

- If so, is that student ADD?

- Do you think ADD tends to lead to inconsistent test scores?

- Conversely, does anyone have ADD students which are very consistent testers?

- Does anyone have very steady students who achieve extremely inconsistent test scores?

- Are there other factors I should be considering?

- If you have an inconsistent tester, what have you done to try to help?  (Please tell us both what has worked and what has NOT worked.)

 

Note that the plan with all of our students is to do a lot of practice testing, detailed review of missed items and skills practice using Khan Academy.  In theory, that should improve both skills AND consistency, but that remains to be seen with DD15.

 

This morning I told DD15 that I thought she missed so many math problems yesterday so that she could spend some quality time with her dad today! :laugh:  She retorted that it was safer to miss math problems because I (Reg) am such a slow reader that missing a reading question was just too painful during review. She got a 50/52 on reading yesterday.  :lol:

[Liza Q]

My son gets a little distracted but I've never thought that it was any level of ADD - just teenage boy. But here are his scores from the spring on those same practice tests. He took them times, 2 on paper and 2 online with Khan.

 

SAT #1: Math: 680 R&W: 720

SAT #2: Math 670 R&W: 680

SAT #3: Math 710 R&W: 730

SAT #4: Math 610 R&W: 730

 

June SAT: Math: 680 R&W: 720

 

So his math practice was pretty inconsistent - 10-100 points!! - and the verbal somewhat inconsistent - 10-50 points - but in the end his actual scores were identical to his first practice test. I'm not sure what that means. I suspect that he tried hard the first time, tried more or less hard on the practice tests, and then reverted back to his original "try hard" on the real thing. It also means that 8 weeks with Khan academy practice made no difference in his score. I'm not sure how hard he worked but he did the assignments and go over the ones he missed...but I guess that he could do it without really caring, right? It's like he did the work and then didn't think about it on the next test. Maybe. He has no idea when I ask him. I know that by the last practice test he was resenting having to take another stupid test and it really showed on his math score.

 

Now we're trying a different approach. He is more serious because I showed him some honors programs/scholarships at his top choices that have motivated him a bit. I got Keller's New SAT Math prep book and I am hopeful. He may take the SAT in August, in which case he'll do focused Math prep and a little grammar for the rest of the summer. Or we may wait for October and try to focus on both...maybe get a writing/grammar specific prep book. His reading is never a problem.

 

 

[RegGuheert]

Thanks, Liza!  I agree your DS17's scores are quite close to our DD15's, both in range and in value.

 

My son gets a little distracted but I've never thought that it was any level of ADD - just teenage boy..

O.K.  So one vote against the ADD theory.

 

It also means that 8 weeks with Khan academy practice made no difference in his score.

With the notable exception of the eight SAT practice tests provided by the College Board (with detailed answer explanations), we have found that on the math sections Khan Academy sometimes suggests the LEAST EFFICIENT way to approach a given problem without offering alternative methods.  It's a bit frustrating to have such a powerful practice tool teaching worst practices.

 

I know that by the last practice test he was resenting having to take another stupid test and it really showed on his math score.

I think that could be part of it with DD15.  Still, that wouldn't explain her nearly-perfect score on Reading of 50/52 combined with a low-for-the-Guheerts score on Math No Calculator of 11/20.

 

Now we're trying a different approach. He is more serious because I showed him some honors programs/scholarships at his top choices that have motivated him a bit. I got Keller's New SAT Math prep book and I am hopeful. He may take the SAT in August, in which case he'll do focused Math prep and a little grammar for the rest of the summer. Or we may wait for October and try to focus on both...maybe get a writing/grammar specific prep book. His reading is never a problem.

Please let us know how you like the Math prep book.  Also, if you find a good book for writing, please do let us know that, also.  I'd like to see scores which float around 40 to come up to a consistent 43 to 44.  I won't say reading is never a problem here, but I was happy to see two 50/52s and one 49/52 yesterday! :hurray:

 

Can you tell us what score you are targeting for the next SAT test?

[JanetC]

You need to test in test like conditions. She will NOT be allowed to roam free during the SAT under any circumstances. Even getting bored and looking all around could be seen as a sign of trying to cheat and get her sent home with no score.

[RegGuheert]

You need to test in test like conditions. She will NOT be allowed to roam free during the SAT under any circumstances. Even getting bored and looking all around could be seen as a sign of trying to cheat and get her sent home with no score.

I agree.  That's why I had the three of them test together and proctored them.  (I cannot always do that because they don't always take the same type of test: PSAT versus SAT.)  But I wasn't able to stay in the room during the sessions due to other commitments.  She knows the rules, as she has done the PSAT and AP tests in previous years.  But she's a rebel...

 

[Liza Q]

We agreed that he would work for a few weeks on the new book, take another practice test, then see where he is and how he feels. Then we have to decide if he will do a big push through August or slow and steady through October. Then we'll feel confident about saying a certain number!

[Arcadia]

I think that could be part of it with DD15. Still, that wouldn't explain her nearly-perfect score on Reading of 50/52 combined with a low-for-the-Guheerts score on Math No Calculator of 11/20.

 

Both my kids are inconsistent on practice tests. My kids were just plain bored. Younger boy has been evaluated for ADD due to complaints by instructors/teachers and the conclusion was that he is bored and there are "maturity issues".

 

There is a decreasing marginal utility to test prep for kids that get bored easily. Eating skittles (or M&Ms or Tic-Tacs) while doing a section at a time gave me a good upper limit score estimate for each section for my kids. Doing a entire set in one sitting gives my kids the practice they need to endure the entire test duration. We didn't do the essay section since my kids won't have endure that long and would have just white flag that section.

 

Barron's test prep and sports psychology helped pushed my younger boy's score up for his second SAT sitting by 250 points. Khan does not work for either of my kids but we borrowed all the Barron's books off the library so we didn't spend any money either. Younger did a practice test from Princeton Review (library copy) as well and it was very close to his actual June 2017 score.

 

ETA:

For math score improvement for my younger boy, it wasn't so much test prep but the amount of math done from October 2016 to June 2017. He did AMC8, AMC10 and AMC12 as well as finish his AoPS intermediate algebra online class. It boosted his test taking speed up. Both of mine are rebellious but they wanted to be once and done.

 

ETA:

He used the Casio scientific calculator for SAT both times as he prefers that to the TI84 for what SAT math needs.

Edited July 19, 2017 by Arcadia

[catz]

Oh my gosh, following and pondering.  This is BOTH my kids. 

 

We need to do standardized tests every year so I've watched how it's progressed with my now 16 year old.  When he was younger he might ceiling an early section and bomb a late section (he hit the ceiling of an oral K-12 math test in 5th grade for example, and then "knew" absolutely nothing in science that year.  LOL.).  He has improved over time.  He was signed up fo1r the April ACT and got sick enough to cancel.  I moved him to June.  We did 1 practice test before June.  Oh my gosh, his results were NUTS.  Then his June  composite score was 1-2 points higher than expected and he's in a fantastic positon for a final go next spring. 

 

He's doing the PSAT this fall and he's doing light Khan prep.  I think if he were untimed and could split the test up, he would have no problem with NM.  I have not a lot of confidence he will actually pull it off.  He was close enough last year to try and his ACT composite went up 4 pts freshman to sophomore year.  We'll see.

Edited July 19, 2017 by WoolySocks

[katilac]

You need to test in test like conditions. She will NOT be allowed to roam free during the SAT under any circumstances. Even getting bored and looking all around could be seen as a sign of trying to cheat and get her sent home with no score.

 

Absolutely. 

 

This comes into play in other ways as well. With the real test, she will have to sit there and wait if she finishes early. They don't care if she has checked her work or not. She has to get accustomed to sitting there the entire time! Silently. Lots of students would love it if they could talk, stretch, pee, or move on to the next section, but they can't, so get used to it. 

 

My kids are not ADD, but I have family that is, and I have taught classes to and tutored ADD students. In my limited experience, yes, ADD is playing a role in her inconsistent test scores, in the sense that I would assume her lower scores occur when she wants to jump up early and be finished. But I wouldn't assume that she couldn't sit through the test properly, and improve on her ability to concentrate long enough to check her work. I would try practicing, and perhaps offering motivation for successes along the way, in whatever form of bribery you find acceptable. 

 

One thing she might try is a centering exercise, basically something to clear her mind and be ready to focus again. I linked a simple one below, but if you search you will find many. Obviously she will need one that focuses on breathing and visualizing, stretching is out for the SAT!

 

https://www.mindtools.com/pages/article/newTCS_83.htm

Edited July 19, 2017 by katilac

[RegGuheert]

Both my kids are inconsistent on practice tests. My kids were just plain bored. Younger boy has been evaluated for ADD due to complaints by instructors/teachers and the conclusion was that he is bored and there are "maturity issues".

You could probably describe DD15 in a similar manner.

 

There is a decreasing marginal utility to test prep for kids that get bored easily. Eating skittles (or M&Ms or Tic-Tacs) while doing a section at a time gave me a good upper limit score estimate for each section for my kids. Doing a entire set in one sitting gives my kids the practice they need to endure the entire test duration. We didn't do the essay section since my kids won't have endure that long and would have just white flag that section.

DD15 and DS15 are just now starting with Khan Academy.  The software now has last year's PSAT score and two SAT practice tests for each of them, so it should be able to help them to focus on the skills they need to improve.  But DS17 has done virtually every bit of SAT prep Khan Academy has to offer, so it certainly has much lower utility for him.

 

ETA:

For math score improvement for my younger boy, it wasn't so much test prep but the amount of math done from October 2016 to June 2017. He did AMC8, AMC10 and AMC12 as well as finish his AoPS intermediate algebra online class. It boosted his test taking speed up. Both of mine are rebellious but they wanted to be once and done.

I'm impressed with what your boys have achieve and it seems AoPS is a part of that.  We did a bit with that when DS19 was doing the AMC tests and it was pretty good stuff.  We're trying something similar for DS17.  I'll post in the other thread on what we are doing there.

 

ETA:

He used the Casio scientific calculator for SAT both times as he prefers that to the TI84 for what SAT math needs.

I've never been a fan of the TI-84s, but that is what Chalk Dust teaches so that is what our children use.

 

We need to do standardized tests every year so I've watched how it's progressed with my now 16 year old.

We do the PSAT as our standardized test for the four youngest.  It seems the best choice for that purpose.

 

We need to do standardized tests every year so I've watched how it's progressed with my now 16 year old.  When he was younger he might ceiling an early section and bomb a late section (he hit the ceiling of an oral K-12 math test in 5th grade for example, and then "knew" absolutely nothing in science that year.  LOL.).  He has improved over time.  He was signed up fo1r the April ACT and got sick enough to cancel.  I moved him to June.  We did 1 practice test before June.  Oh my gosh, his results were NUTS.  Then his June  composite score was 1-2 points higher than expected and he's in a fantastic positon for a final go next spring.

He sounds similar to DD15: very smart, but has difficulty focusing.  That's what I would like to address with DD15.

 

Absolutely. 

 

This comes into play in other ways as well. With the real test, she will have to sit there and wait if she finishes early. They don't care if she has checked her work or not. She has to get accustomed to sitting there the entire time! Silently. Lots of students would love it if they could talk, stretch, pee, or move on to the next section, but they can't, so get used to it. 

 

My kids are not ADD, but I have family that is, and I have taught classes to and tutored ADD students. In my limited experience, yes, ADD is playing a role in her inconsistent test scores, in the sense that I would assume her lower scores occur when she wants to jump up early and be finished. But I wouldn't assume that she couldn't sit through the test properly, and improve on her ability to concentrate long enough to check her work. I would try practicing, and perhaps offering motivation for successes along the way, in whatever form of bribery you find acceptable. 

 

One thing she might try is a centering exercise, basically something to clear her mind and be ready to focus again. I linked a simple one below, but if you search you will find many. Obviously she will need one that focuses on breathing and visualizing, stretching is out for the SAT!

 

https://www.mindtools.com/pages/article/newTCS_83.htm

Thanks!  I do think the idea of her mind wandering to all the other things she could be doing could be a real distraction for her.  We'll have to come up with a way to ensure she does not have an out during these tests.  Unfortunately, even when she sits there, I find some rather elaborate drawings on the test papers.

 

We'll also take a look at the centering exercises.  Sounds interesting!  Selling something like that to DD15?...not so interesting. :tongue_smilie:

[Arcadia]

DD15 and DS15 are just now starting with Khan Academy. The software now has last year's PSAT score and two SAT practice tests for each of them, so it should be able to help them to focus on the skills they need to improve.

 

I've never been a fan of the TI-84s, but that is what Chalk Dust teaches so that is what our children use.

...

Unfortunately, even when she sits there, I find some rather elaborate drawings on the test papers

I don't know if the Khan Academy software could do the focusing on weaker areas part. I nitpick through my kids SAT answers on paper.

 

The calculator comment was just to say my younger kid used the same calculator both times. Buildings were about equally old and the classroom setup were similar (4 rows of 5 tables equally spaced).

 

My oldest definitely draws irrelevant drawings on test papers but it is the least disruptive thing to do after finishing a section.

 

The news link kind of explain what I meant by using sport psychology for test taking http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationadvice/11496241/Revision-How-sport-science-can-improve-exam-results.html

[RegGuheert]

My oldest definitely draws irrelevant drawings on test papers but it is the least disruptive thing to do after finishing a section.

The issue with DD15 is that ART is what she wants to leave and go do instead.  If she can just mentally "leave" and do her art right there on the test papers, so much the better, right?

 

The news link kind of explain what I meant by using sport psychology for test taking http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationadvice/11496241/Revision-How-sport-science-can-improve-exam-results.html

That looks pretty cool!  I'll dig into it more when I have some time.  Thanks!

Edited July 19, 2017 by RegGuheert