Looking for a small, intellectual liberal arts school - average SAT score

[3andme]

Posted Today, 11:45 AM

3andme, on 17 Jul 2017 - 9:21 PM, said:

Also, St. Andrews in Scotland is a popular alternative for US students.

 

 

But this is not a huge tuition savings, unless you account for the 3 yrs vs 4, right?

 

St. Andrews is a 4 year program. According to their brochure, it's about $34,000 a year (26,000 GBP) for tuition and room and board in the Arts & Sciences. Of course, there would be additional expense for foreign travel etc. but still a good deal when compared with many American universities at $60,000 plus. I'm keeping this in mind for oldest ds who hates cities and likes cooler climates. They have a well regarded International Relations program. Admissions for Americans seem to be fairly straight forward as long as you meet their testing criteria; although, they say they will also consider the app more holistically if those criteria aren't met.  

Edited July 18, 2017 by 3andme

[katilac]

Regarding not doing well on tests: make sure she looks at the requirements for any scholarships. A lesser scholarship that requires a 3.0 may serve her better in the long run than a bigger one that requires 3.5. 

[J-rap]

Carleton is on the list of 50 most selective colleges in another thread. While not as super selective as Carleton, significant merit aid would require top test scores and grades at Macalester.

 

That's a good point, but we personally know many students (given our location) who go there or who have gone there in the past.  They tend to be very good students but not top scoring, and many are from families who could not attend unless there was significant aid.  So, maybe worth a shot!

[Frances]

Thank you for this. It is exactly what I need to know. Lewis and Clark isn't even on the list, knowing she is in bottom of stats and wouldn't get merit.

 

Re: Willamette - does it have something so uniquely perfect for her that it is the worth the travel expenses? Sporty, pre-professional types are abundant at the schools around here. No need to go far for that. And we are avoiding many of those schools.

I meant that in addition to many students like her, there would also be more sporty and pre-professional students compared to say Lewis and Clark, which would have more students from very wealthy backgrounds, in addition to lots of students like her. Sorry I wasn't clear.

 

I don't know about uniquely perfect, but Willamette is known for good aid for students they want and being on the east coast would likely get her much more aid than at a similar school locally. That was definitely the experience of my high stats son. He got significantly more merit aid from much more selective LACs in this Midwest than he did from less selective LACs in the PNW. It might be worth applying and then seeing what kind of aid package she gets before visiting. They do have a pretty significant percentage of students involved in the arts which might appeal to her with her dance background. Their dance program has improved substantially during the last five years.

[Frances]

That's a good point, but we personally know many students (given our location) who go there or who have gone there in the past. They tend to be very good students but not top scoring, and many are from families who could not attend unless there was significant aid. So, maybe worth a shot!

Definitely worth a shot, it was my dream school for my son, but alas he had other ideas. 😜It was the only school that gave us any financial aid at all, a small non-government work study grant. But at least at the time my son applied, the top merit scholarship he got was only available for those who were National Merit qualifiers first, and the OP said they needed substantial merit aid. Edited July 19, 2017 by Frances

[JanetC]

That's a good point, but we personally know many students (given our location) who go there or who have gone there in the past. They tend to be very good students but not top scoring, and many are from families who could not attend unless there was significant aid. So, maybe worth a shot!

If the FAFSA says you need aid, Macalester will give it. But, merit is highly competitive.

 

DD graduating in 2016 got 0 merit for a 3.8 and 2100 (old) SAT. But, unlike others, they didn't consider us full pay and we got a small need based grant.

 

ETA:they are rumored to be generous with diversity recruiting as well, if that applies to anyone,

Edited July 19, 2017 by JanetC

[3andme]

If you're visiting Goucher, you might drive a little further and check out St. Mary's College of Maryland. According to their web site, they are considered the honors college of the U of MD system and function as a small liberal arts focused college. The COA is about $29,000 instate and $44,000 out of state but they do offer merit to both in and out of state applicants. No idea about the culture on campus. 

[Hoggirl]

Do you have a Fiske Guide? I think it's very good at highlighting college vibes.

 

Your dsd is not alone in her skepticism of going to Arkansas, but I would encourage you to explore Hendrix. Full disclosure: I'm an alum, so I have a bias. They are less interested in test scores than grades. It is FULL of quirky people. While I realize Arkansas is a red state, Hendrix is VERY blue. It is only half an hour from Little Rock which has a decent regional airport. They have a cool, fairly new President. The food is excellent (not so in my day). Frosh housing needs improvement, but there are much nicer options for upperclassmen. The campus is lovely. No Greeks. And they have the Odyssey program which didn't exist when I attended when dinosaurs roamed the earth. You can read about it here:

 

https://www.hendrix.edu/odyssey/

 

EDIT: also found this blurb about the Odyssey program. No idea who this company is:

 

http://emersoneducationalconsulting.com/the-odyssey-program/

 

Since your daughter has an interest in writing, you can read about my classmate here:

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_A._Blackmon

Edited July 19, 2017 by Hoggirl

[madteaparty]

Posted Today, 11:45 AM

3andme, on 17 Jul 2017 - 9:21 PM, said:

 

 

St. Andrews is a 4 year program. According to their brochure, it's about $34,000 a year (26,000 GBP) for tuition and room and board in the Arts & Sciences. Of course, there would be additional expense for foreign travel etc. but still a good deal when compared with many American universities at $60,000 plus. I'm keeping this in mind for oldest ds who hates cities and likes cooler climates. They have a well regarded International Relations program. Admissions for Americans seem to be fairly straight forward as long as you meet their testing criteria; although, they say they will also consider the app more holistically if those criteria aren't met.

Thanks for clarifying, I thought those fees were tuition only.

[JanetC]

These aren't all liberal arts colleges, but there might be some new ideas here:

 

https://www.collegetransitions.com/excellent-colleges-for-b-students/

[katilac]

If the FAFSA says you need aid, Macalester will give it. But, merit is highly competitive.

 

 

Although they do a pretty good job with income diversity, note that they do not have needs-blind admission. 

[swimmermom3]

With liberal and hipster as criteria, I would add Lewis and Clark in Portland and maybe Beloit in Wisconsin.

 

Ds was accepted to Beloit and we spent two days there for an accepted students weekend. Wisconsin wasn't my son's cup of tea, but there was so much to like about this school from the administration to the campus to the incredible friendliness of the students. A small thing, but we were stunned when everyone dropped their bags outside the cafeteria and retrieved them after their meal. Even 30 years ago at our state university, backpacks left unattended would have been long gone.

 

Other things that struck me that there was an emphasis on the students "wearing many hats" on campus. Student theater productions are well attended as are sporting events. There is a strong sense of community.  There is also an archaeological museum on campus and our tour guide talked about performing chemistry experiments on 3,000 year old bones during her freshman year.

 

There is a research grant of about $3,000 that students can apply for their sophomore year, I think, to spearhead their own projects.

 

I would have loved Beloit; my dh would have loved Goucher; and ds held on to Allegheny as an option to American University and George Washington University until the very end because he very much liked the professors and the classes he attended there. He bonded quickly with the other accepted students that were there at the same time and felt like he had "found his tribe."  The small liberal arts colleges make a student feel appreciated and desired and that can make larger universities and colleges feel cold and a bit uncaring.

 

Allegheny's merit aid goes for all four years and is not grade point dependent. They want their students to take academic risks and try a class that may stretch their academic limits.  That fit our homeschooling philosophy completely.

 

 

[catz]

 

DD is an atheist.  St Olaf was originally on the list, until I found out more about the culture.  

 

 

Sorry for the jump in.  I would love to know what about St. Olaf's culture might be troubling to a liberal atheist that you've heard?  We are in MN and I know a bunch of Ole grads and none of them Lutheran and all of them are super liberal.  Including 2 gay people and 1 transgender person.  My kid is interested in music so that has definitely been on our list.   Hope to have a chance to get on campus this fall with my son.  Or does this have more to do with the recent news conservative students choosing to leave St. Olaf? 

 

I think both Macalester and especially Carleton can be challenging for admissions.  I know kids turned away from both those schools I thought would be shoo-ins.  We're going to tour Macalester in a couple weeks.

[lisabees]

First, an update!  DD will be attending St. John's Summer Academy next week.  She is beyond excited!  Jane Austen and Shakespeare and croquet? Are you kidding me?

 

Lisa, re: Allegheny. You know how first impressions go a long way?  I think I shared my oldest ds's story in a post at one time; Allegheny didn't seem to match his social or intellectual needs.  But the tour guide's blue eyes were soooo beautiful, according to him. :)  Anyway, it may have been that one tour guide (her lack of intellectual passion, not her beauty), but it was out of the running.  It actually may be a good fit for dd, but I do recall it being in the middle of nowhere - seriously in the middle of nowhere - like Juniata.

 

Does American sound like a possible fit for her?  Haven't looked at their stats in a long time.

 

WoolySocks, re: St Olaf.  I may have read about the culture on College Confidential a while back.  I would love to know if I am wrong.  Have fun at Macalester.  We never visited.  It sounds awesome to me.

 

Carleton, Macalester, Grinnell, Kenyon.  She probably couldn't get in, but if she did, she couldn't get merit.  Oldest ds was accepted at three of those, but he had higher stats and, still, merit wasn't generous enough.

 

 

 

Edited July 20, 2017 by lisabees

[catz]

 

WoolySocks, re: St Olaf.  I may have read about the culture on College Confidential a while back.  I would love to know if I am wrong.  Have fun at Macalester.  We never visited.  It sounds awesome to me.

 

Oh interesting!  You gave me a googling point - thank you!  We know someone on staff there is well so I'll be asking around.  :)  I do think this average ACT at St Olaf is at a sweet spot where we might be able to get some merit aid but still have a pretty academically minded community - that's important to us too.

[katilac]

but I do recall it being in the middle of nowhere - seriously in the middle of nowhere  

 

Yes, you recall correctly. 

[JennW in SoCal]

There are about 3 WTM kids who are Wooster alums, with at least 2 of us moms still around and eager to promote the school. My ds chose it over Willamette, and while we looked at Beloit and Grinnell and Lawrence and Lewis and Clark and others, he opted not to submit lots of applications. Nail biting experience, but one that had a positive outcome!

 

It is rather in the middle of nowhere, but it is a beautiful nowhere and the campus community so tight that nobody seems to feel isolated. The school has lots of money for research and summer programs. My ds was working as a research assistant in the geology department starting the spring semester of his freshman year and spent that summer doing field work in Iceland and Utah. It was all paid for and he received a stipend for his work. The school markets itself based on the senior research project, the Independent Study. It is uniquely rigorous but the faculty are terrific mentors who prepare the students for the process. Most students present their senior research at professional conferences.

 

 

[MorningGlory]

She leans hipster and liberal.  Social justice should matter greatly to the student culture.  

.

 

She is a quiet, serious girl.  She is appalled by most kids' behavior with drinking etc, but she is not sheltered at all from pop culture.  She is insecure, but really has the ability to bloom into a leader.  She needs a place that will allow her to grow.

 

She is a talented creative writer and loves the idea of a liberal arts school to help find her passion.  She loves the idea of the seven sisters schools.

 

 

Rhodes College in Memphis, TN. 

A true gem!

[JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst]

I would add the following women's colleges to the list if she is seriously considering one-

 

Smith College

Hollins University

Agnes Scott

Meredith

Salem

Sweet Briar College is another option but it might feel a bit too preppy for her.

 

(Merit aid at most of these can be generous but it is not obvious when you are researching.)

 

Some co-ed schools to consider are Hampshire and Catawba College.

 

If she isn't looking for preppy/greek life I wouldn't consider Sewanee.

 

St Johns (Annapolis, MD) is a highly specialized and unique curriculum, I would be certain that it is exactly what and how you want to study before applying.

 

[Hoggirl]

Rhodes College in Memphis, TN.

A true gem!

I agree that it is a gem, but I *think* it is pretty heavy Greek? I am not anti-Greek - just wondering if that jives with this student. I may be wrong about how Greek it is. Okay, I just googled - 50% Greek. Edited July 20, 2017 by Hoggirl

[teachermom2834]

If she isn't looking for preppy/greek life I wouldn't consider Sewanee.

 

 

I agree with this. I don't think Sewanee would be a fit for OP's dd (though I don't think she's mentioned it). I'm localish and my ds looked heavily at it and applied. The low tolerance for foolish student behavior, drinking would not be a good match. It is kind of a shame how party heavy the culture is there because there is plenty to like about the school.

[daijobu]

I'll throw in Luther College in Decorah, Iowa.  Yes, it isn't secular, but my lapsed Catholic-turned-atheist-craving-an-intellectual-atmosphere girl friend attended and thrived there.  This was many many years ago, but she received aid that made the school's cost comparable to ISU.  

 

I'll also throw out another idea to consider.  I will suggest that at any school of sufficient size, you are likely to find your tribe of like minded students.  Even sports crazy universities with a party culture have future poets and philosophers attending, no?  

[Frances]

I'll throw in Luther College in Decorah, Iowa. Yes, it isn't secular, but my lapsed Catholic-turned-atheist-craving-an-intellectual-atmosphere girl friend attended and thrived there. This was many many years ago, but she received aid that made the school's cost comparable to ISU.

 

I'll also throw out another idea to consider. I will suggest that at any school of sufficient size, you are likely to find your tribe of like minded students. Even sports crazy universities with a party culture have future poets and philosophers attending, no?

In the late 1980s many of my high school classmates, all Catholic, attended Luther. I can't speak to its current culture, but it is in a really neat small IA town.

 

I definitely agree with the second paragraph. That's why I also suggested Cornell College in IA further up the thread. It does have the advantage over Luther of being more secular (very loose Methodist affiliation) and very close to two much larger cities, IA City and Cedar Rapids. It's also closer to Chicago and in fact draws many of its students from there. After Grinnell, it's probably the most selective LAC in IA.

[TravelingChris]

My dd goes to Rhodes.  The OP's daughter would be unlikely to get merit aid unless her scores improved and GPA improved.  My dd did get it but her GPA was over a 4.0 and her ACT was a point above the average.  I think their average now is 28.  It isn't a particularly liberal campus though there are plenty of liberals there along with conservatives too.  The Greek society encompasses about half the student population but dd has not had any problems with getting friends and having enough to do without resorting to attending frat parties.

[Bootsie]

My nephew is a couple years out University of Dallas. My take on it is that it still pretty conservative and not particularly socially minded. I have a similar daughter but US is not going on her list.

DD is a rising senior at UD.  She has found that the idea of "socially minded" depends greatly upon what social issues you are talking about.  She has friends that are highly involved with pro-life, human trafficking, hunger, and environmental issues (these are some I can remember specifics about off of the top of my head); there are fewer involved in social issues such as pro-choice, gender issues, and religious diversity.  

 

There is no Greek life.  They are friendly to homeschoolers.  

[Arch at Home]

I would look at St. Edwards. It is Catholic but th recruiter indicated that it was not strongly Catholic. The son of a friend of mine currently attending there and he is impressed with their social concerns focus. OP's DD would qualify for their Presidential Scholarship.

[Eos]

Late posting - Guilford College in Greensboro, NC is a Quaker college with social justice focus, more diverse than many small LACs, her scores are right in line, but I haven't done the research on their merit aid.

[SamanthaCarter]

Have you checked out Roanoke College? It's a liberal college in a conservative area - student body is made up of a lot of New England students. Affiliated with ECLA. Not sports crazy except for lacrosse, Greek society makes up about 20%.

 

ETA: I would consider it preppy...

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Edited July 24, 2017 by SamanthaCarter

[Granny_Weatherwax]

Knox - your DD would be a perfect fit. It's a secular liberal school with a hipster student population. Student are highly active in world affairs and outreach/activism. It's a great LAC with high marks for grad school admissions. Merit aid varies but is there and can be quite generous.

 

BTW- Mount Holyoke is a test optional school. She doesn't have to submit those scores if she doesn't want to. MHC used to be quite generous with merit aid.

 

 

ETA: Grinnell is a great school but can be quite stingy with merit aid. After DS (high stats) received his merit and need based package, Grinnell still wanted more than 40% of our gross income. That was with two in college at the time. We appealed but they stuck to their guns. DS received the least amount of merit aid from GC; we thought this a bit odd because he was accepted ED even though he applied RD. 

Edited July 24, 2017 by Scoutermom

[lisabees]

I would add the following women's colleges to the list if she is seriously considering one-

 

Smith College

Hollins University

Agnes Scott

Meredith

Salem

Sweet Briar College is another option but it might feel a bit too preppy for her.

 

(Merit aid at most of these can be generous but it is not obvious when you are researching.)

 

Some co-ed schools to consider are Hampshire and Catawba College.

 

If she isn't looking for preppy/greek life I wouldn't consider Sewanee.

 

St Johns (Annapolis, MD) is a highly specialized and unique curriculum, I would be certain that it is exactly what and how you want to study before applying.

 I really think she would thrive at an all women's school.  She is drawn to them; she could use a safe place to grow.  

 

There are about 3 WTM kids who are Wooster alums, with at least 2 of us moms still around and eager to promote the school. My ds chose it over Willamette, and while we looked at Beloit and Grinnell and Lawrence and Lewis and Clark and others, he opted not to submit lots of applications. Nail biting experience, but one that had a positive outcome!

 

It is rather in the middle of nowhere, but it is a beautiful nowhere and the campus community so tight that nobody seems to feel isolated. The school has lots of money for research and summer programs. My ds was working as a research assistant in the geology department starting the spring semester of his freshman year and spent that summer doing field work in Iceland and Utah. It was all paid for and he received a stipend for his work. The school markets itself based on the senior research project, the Independent Study. It is uniquely rigorous but the faculty are terrific mentors who prepare the students for the process. Most students present their senior research at professional conferences.

 

I have visited Wooster twice.  It is lovely.  

 

Could you describe Beloit to me?

 

Late posting - Guilford College in Greensboro, NC is a Quaker college with social justice focus, more diverse than many small LACs, her scores are right in line, but I haven't done the research on their merit aid.

 

Checking it out.  Thanks!

 

Knox - your DD would be a perfect fit. It's a secular liberal school with a hipster student population. Student are highly active in world affairs and outreach/activism. It's a great LAC with high marks for grad school admissions. Merit aid varies but is there and can be quite generous.

 

BTW- Mount Holyoke is a test optional school. She doesn't have to submit those scores if she doesn't want to. MHC used to be quite generous with merit aid.

 

 

ETA: Grinnell is a great school but can be quite stingy with merit aid. After DS (high stats) received his merit and need based package, Grinnell still wanted more than 40% of our gross income. That was with two in college at the time. We appealed but they stuck to their guns. DS received the least amount of merit aid from GC; we thought this a bit odd because he was accepted ED even though he applied RD. 

 

Knox.  It is on the list.  Mt Holyoke is test optional and that makes it a possibility.  It will definitely be her reach school, but she must receive enough merit.  We will make another visit next month (and make a pitstop at Wheaton in Norton, MA , if it sounds like a possibility).

 

She can't get into Grinnell.   :)

Edited July 24, 2017 by lisabees

[Bluegoat]

Poor DSD.  In person, she is highly articulate, highly passionate, highly informed.  She is well read, currently reading Handmaid's Tale and Emma on her own.  If you recall, she was homeschooled to dance ballet full time and returned to PS in January.  

 

She is a rising senior.

 

Her test scores aren't great.  1210 SAT.  One AP score of a 3.  Not sure of GPA; can't seem to access it.  Probably 3.5.

 

She wants a highly intellectual school filled with people who take academics and world issues seriously.  But it is difficult to find with those scores.

 

Her reach school is Mt Holyoke.  She was fine with Wooster.  In the spring, we did a whirlwind road trip and also saw Earlham, Denison, Clark, Goucher, Bryn Mawr, Oberlin (to see my oldest), U of Rochester, Muhlenberg.  She just returned from Susquehanna University's Writer's Workshop. She is a talented writer.

 

Right now, I am looking for names of additional schools; I can research the financial aspect and determine whether or not it is worth applying.

 

Is St. John's worth a look? 

 

If you would be willing to look at Canada, you could look at University of King's College in Halifax.  There is probably a little more wiggle room with SAT scores than in a US school, and I know they are especially interested in homeschooled students at the moment.

[Chris in VA]

Have you considered Mt. Union in Ohio or Elon in NC?

[Tiramisu]

Have you considered Mt. Union in Ohio or Elon in NC?

I'd like to hear any personal thoughts on Mt. Union. :)

 

It came up on a search recently. I had never heard of it before.

[Tiramisu]

Lisabees, I'm enjoying this thread. My d sounds quite similar but more moderate than liberal and perhaps more nerdy than hipster. Her test scores are a bit higher at 1370, which is helpful because she really need merit, a lot of it.

 

All the comments are very helpful.

 

Beloit seems like a great match for her, despite frequently being described as liberal. If there were an active Catholic community, it might work.

 

I would love to go visit Lawrence and Beloit, but I can't even manage to get there for a visit so I worry about Dd getting back and forth. We've been focusing in on Pa for that reason.

[lisabees]

Lisabees, I'm enjoying this thread. My d sounds quite similar but more moderate than liberal and perhaps more nerdy than hipster. Her test scores are a bit higher at 1370, which is helpful because she really need merit, a lot of it.

 

All the comments are very helpful.

 

Beloit seems like a great match for her, despite frequently being described as liberal. If there were an active Catholic community, it might work.

 

I would love to go visit Lawrence and Beloit, but I can't even manage to get there for a visit so I worry about Dd getting back and forth. We've been focusing in on Pa for that reason.

 

That travel expense and inconvenience are also a consideration.  But, then again, for my Obie kid, I drove 8 hours one day.  Stayed in hotel.  Drove another 8 the next. Gas, hotel and food costs add up to a cheap airplane ticket.  

 

I would also love to visit Lawrence and Beloit.  She might have to get accepted first.

 

DD returned from St John's summer academy.  She liked it a lot, but is worried that she would be too intimidated by the bright students and workload if she attended. Susquehanna also seems to be up for serious consideration (where ds21 currently attends and where she recently attended a writing camp).   She is interested in their writing program.

 

Tiramisu - Susquehanna is not a liberal, hipster school; your dd might find a fit; they are good with merit and have an honors program.  If you are sticking to PA and need a lot of merit, I assume you have considered Allegheny, Juniata, Elizabethtown, Ursinus and Muhlenberg (a bit stingier with merit).  We had no luck with Dickinson merit in the past. The other PA schools - Gettysburg, Lafayette, Bucknell likely won't come through for you either if you need a lot. Your daughter would probably do great with Wooster and Denison, though.

Edited July 30, 2017 by lisabees

[Rebecca]

Have you considered Lehigh University? This is my alma mater and while known as an engineering school, it also has a rigorous and strong arts and science college. I have a humanities degree. It is liberal, small, and intellectual. They provide good financial packages and recently became a 100% financial need school, I believe. This is in PA and is Lafayette's "rival" 😀

Edited July 30, 2017 by Rebecca

[Tiramisu]

That travel expense and inconvenience are also a consideration. But, then again, for my Obie kid, I drove 8 hours one day. Stayed in hotel. Drove another 8 the next. Gas, hotel and food costs add up to a cheap airplane ticket.

 

I would also love to visit Lawrence and Beloit. She might have to get accepted first.

 

DD returned from St John's summer academy. She liked it a lot, but is worried that she would be too intimidated by the bright students and workload if she attended. Susquehanna also seems to be up for serious consideration (where ds21 currently attends and where she recently attended a writing camp). She is interested in their writing program.

 

Tiramisu - Susquehanna is not a liberal, hipster school; your dd might find a fit; they are good with merit and have an honors program. If you are sticking to PA and need a lot of merit, I assume you have considered Allegheny, Juniata, Elizabethtown, Ursinus and Muhlenberg (a bit stingier with merit). We had no luck with Dickinson merit in the past. The other PA schools - Gettysburg, Lafayette, Bucknell likely won't come through for you either if you need a lot. Your daughter would probably do great with Wooster and Denison, though.

We really like the same schools!

 

And I also am suspicious about getting enough aid & scholarships at the same schools you mentioned. And I'm hoping to avoid doing Profile schools because their npc's never turn out well for us, but Muhlenberg seems better than most. If D really wants Muhlenberg, I'd see if they would consider a pre-read of our finances and decide whether or not to go forward with the Profile.

 

I think Denison is a Profile school, too. Blech. So I won't suggest it and wait to see if she brings it up.

 

I wasn't going to ask her to look at Allegheny but then I saw they won an award for undergrad research, so then I thought it might be worth it.

 

I am also worried about the price at Juniata after doing their NPC twice.

 

I am interested in having D apply to Ursinus, Elizabethtown, Lebanon Valley, and maybe Susquehanna and hoping for a big merit scholarship.

[Chris in VA]

Tiramisu, what is a profile school, please?

[Tiramisu]

A Profile school is a college that uses the CSS Profile to determine financial aid.

 

https://student.collegeboard.org/css-financial-aid-profile

 

Schools that use only the FAFSA never consider home equity in determining financial aid, but schools that use the CSS Profile often do.

 

The Profile asks a lot more questions and is supposed to be a PITA, but it gives colleges a much more complete picture of a family's financial circumstances.

 

It's not free like the FAFSA. I think you have to pay to use it and for each college you will send it to.

Edited August 1, 2017 by Tiramisu

[Penguin]

I hope this thread has given you a sizeable list of schools, lisabees. I just want to thank you for it :) My son is a rising junior, and I think many of the schools listed here will be of interest to us.

Edited August 2, 2017 by Penguin

[lisabees]

Have you considered Lehigh University? This is my alma mater and while known as an engineering school, it also has a rigorous and strong arts and science college. I have a humanities degree. It is liberal, small, and intellectual. They provide good financial packages and recently became a 100% financial need school, I believe. This is in PA and is Lafayette's "rival" 😀

 

 Not sure if this was for me or Tiramasu - Lehigh is a bit too Greek and athletic for dd.  Awesome school, though!  Nice to hear that it recently became 100% need!

 

We really like the same schools!

 

And I also am suspicious about getting enough aid & scholarships at the same schools you mentioned. And I'm hoping to avoid doing Profile schools because their npc's never turn out well for us, but Muhlenberg seems better than most. If D really wants Muhlenberg, I'd see if they would consider a pre-read of our finances and decide whether or not to go forward with the Profile.

 

I think Denison is a Profile school, too. Blech. So I won't suggest it and wait to see if she brings it up.

 

I wasn't going to ask her to look at Allegheny but then I saw they won an award for undergrad research, so then I thought it might be worth it.

 

I am also worried about the price at Juniata after doing their NPC twice.

 

I am interested in having D apply to Ursinus, Elizabethtown, Lebanon Valley, and maybe Susquehanna and hoping for a big merit scholarship.

 

My Susquehanna ds applied to similar schools.  He and I got weird vibes from Lebanon Valley immediately.  Can't explain it - old, conservative, twilight zoney.  Lycoming (and I'll throw in McDaniel in MD) might be nice additions.  Elizabethtown was awesome and a close second.  Well, I wanted it to be. :)

 

When I look at our district's Naviance, I notice that Muhlenberg tends NOT to prefer local kids.  And they are stingier with merit.  But your dd has great stats!  I guess it just depends on what kind of f/a you think you might get.  Denison gave oldest ds tons of merit.  Merit is always better than f/a that might switch from year to year.  You are smart to consider FAFSA only schools for the most part.  And make sure you know which ones offer 100% need.  Susquehanna used CSS Profile in the first year, but in the subsequent years, only FAFSA.

 

I hope this thread has given you a sizeable list of schools, lisabees. I just want to thank you for it :) My son is a rising junior, and I think many of the schools listed here will be of interest to us.

 

Penguin, thank you!  This thread and its contributors have been amazing!  DD started the common app yesterday; her mind is more confused - yet more flexible - than ever. Instead of feeling like she is "stupid" for not having higher SAT scores or for not applying to top-tier schools, she is thinking how nice it might be to be at a school where she is wanted as a top student.

 

I think this a good segue into a quote I often share here.  It was said at my oldest son's first college visit ever - Swarthmore.  The admissions director said, "If this (college search) process doesn't change you, then you are doing it wrong."

 

It is my favorite part of going through this with all of my kids.  The evolution from beginning to end - watching them decide what they are willing to compromise and what they are not willing to compromise - enchants me.  Every single time.  

Edited August 2, 2017 by lisabees

[MomsintheGarden]

Don't know if it's been mentioned, but Shenandoah University in Virginia might be a fit for someone.  They have a great business school, a well-respected nursing program, and they are excellent for drama and music.  They also have many health profession graduate degrees, such as CNM and PA.

[Tiramisu]

Not sure if this was for me or Tiramasu - Lehigh is a bit too Greek and athletic for dd. Awesome school, though! Nice to hear that it recently became 100% need!

 

 

My Susquehanna ds applied to similar schools. He and I got weird vibes from Lebanon Valley immediately. Can't explain it - old, conservative, twilight zoney. Lycoming (and I'll throw in McDaniel in MD) might be nice additions. Elizabethtown was awesome and a close second. Well, I wanted it to be. :)

 

That's interesting about the vibes from Lebanon Valley. I can see some of that and was considering cancelling out visit. To me the campus small, isolated and claustrophobic in the tiny town, but D liked it. And then, the professors really went out of their way to talk to us personally and get to know D and learn about her interests. Kids can start the summer before freshman year doing research and then stay over the summer to do research. D is all about connecting with people and doing research, so that clicked for her. But in the end, it will be about $.

 

McDaniel has an a special scholarship for the children of teachers. I think it might be as generous as any they offer.

 

Have you ever been to Ursinus? I think I signed us up for one of their visit days and I'm hoping D doesntget scheduled to work.

[lisabees]

That's interesting about the vibes from Lebanon Valley. I can see some of that and was considering cancelling out visit. To me the campus small, isolated and claustrophobic in the tiny town, but D liked it. And then, the professors really went out of their way to talk to us personally and get to know D and learn about her interests. Kids can start the summer before freshman year doing research and then stay over the summer to do research. D is all about connecting with people and doing research, so that clicked for her. But in the end, it will be about $.

 

McDaniel has an a special scholarship for the children of teachers. I think it might be as generous as any they offer.

 

Have you ever been to Ursinus? I think I signed us up for one of their visit days and I'm hoping D doesntget scheduled to work.

 

Wow!  McDaniel's Educator Scholarship is awesome.  Who knew?

 

I have been to Ursinus a handful of times over the years.  I know quite a few kids who attend on athletic scholarships.  Around here (it is only 30 mins from me), it is considered fairly rigorous and very athletic.  Plenty of the local kids who attend on athletic scholarships transfer, because they just cannot handle juggling both sport and school.  It is a nice campus in suburbia. Other than that, it is known for good merit and their sciences. 

[Tiramisu]

I know I've told this story before, but I loved Ursinus when we toured it. My son wasn't as impressed, though. There were only 7 boys, I think, majoring in Physics, but the physics profs seemed wonderfully involved with these kids. The campus was lovely, the people seemed genuine, and everyone seemed honestly happy.

I stood and chatted with a really cool man for quite some time while we were waiting in the beautiful chapel for a presentation. I soon realized he was the president.

We spent part of the afternoon with the biology department. One thing I found impressive was their involvement with HHMI.

Ds was offered $35,000 but chose elsewhere. I understood the reasons, but still felt very sad. I would have loved going there as an undergrad.

That's a great story. Thanks. Ursinus is one of the closest LACs that would offer the kind of education dd wants.

[Tiramisu]

Wow! McDaniel's Educator Scholarship is awesome. Who knew?

 

I have been to Ursinus a handful of times over the years. I know quite a few kids who attend on athletic scholarships. Around here (it is only 30 mins from me), it is considered fairly rigorous and very athletic. Plenty of the local kids who attend on athletic scholarships transfer, because they just cannot handle juggling both sport and school. It is a nice campus in suburbia. Other than that, it is known for good merit and their sciences.

That's a good fit, for me at least. Merit and good sciences in suburbia.

 

Thanks, lisabees.

 

I wish all schools offered the type of educator's scholarship that McDaniels offers.

[lisabees]

That's a good fit, for me at least. Merit and good sciences in suburbia.

 

Thanks, lisabees.

 

I wish all schools offered the type of educator's scholarship that McDaniels offers.

 

Oh good!  Keep us updated and let me know if you need help with the area surrounding the school.  I am not sure where you are located, but I am happy to share what I know.

[whitestavern]

Lisabees... have you been able to tour Wheaton yet? We went last weekend and my dd really liked it.

 

If you haven't visited yet, here are my takeaways:

 

Pros: The campus is very pretty, and it's in a cute little town. Location is nice; Providence and Boston are close. It's all undergrad, so no TAs, and the class sizes are of course small. There are a couple of unique benefits. One is that going abroad is free. Your tuition covers it, including the airfare to get where you are going. You can go for a week (like during a vacation), a month, a semester or a year. Also, if you cannot find a paid internship they will give you a stipend to cover your expenses. I believe our guide said they are $3000-$4000. It's guaranteed funding called The Wheaton Edge. You're able to take classes at Brown, though I don't know all the details on how to do that. DD asked about sign language (she does not want to take a foreign language, which is a requirement, and that will suffice. That class is at Brown. Can't remember specific examples but we definitely got the vibe that everyone gets along and are very supportive of each other. Every dorm has its own kitchen.

 

Cons: Housing is the same all four years. Most of the LACs we've visited have nicer dorms as you proceed through the years and many have apartments for upper classmen. So at Wheaton all dorms are all years, which I guess could be viewed as a benefit for some. Also, it seemed "small." We've been looking at all only small schools, and Hamilton at just a few hundred more students, which is dd's favorite, seemed much bigger. The campus felt small but it wasn't just the size. It seemed more like a prep school than a college. Also, the reason it got on our list was due to the open curriculum, but from what the tour guide was telling me there are quite a few required courses. I haven't had a chance to go onto their website and check out the details. The tour guide wasn't great. She seemed like she was adlibbing half of it, and there were a lot of questions she couldn't answer. Kind of a ditz. I hate when we get bad tour guides because it gives me a bad taste for the school, which I realize is my issue, lol! But we did speak to two other students just briefly upon arrival and they were great!

 

If you have any specific questions, I'll be happy to try to answer them. We're off to Lafayette and Muhlenberg this weekend.

[lisabees]

Lisabees... have you been able to tour Wheaton yet? We went last weekend and my dd really liked it.

 

If you haven't visited yet, here are my takeaways:

 

Pros: The campus is very pretty, and it's in a cute little town. Location is nice; Providence and Boston are close. It's all undergrad, so no TAs, and the class sizes are of course small. There are a couple of unique benefits. One is that going abroad is free. Your tuition covers it, including the airfare to get where you are going. You can go for a week (like during a vacation), a month, a semester or a year. Also, if you cannot find a paid internship they will give you a stipend to cover your expenses. I believe our guide said they are $3000-$4000. It's guaranteed funding called The Wheaton Edge. You're able to take classes at Brown, though I don't know all the details on how to do that. DD asked about sign language (she does not want to take a foreign language, which is a requirement, and that will suffice. That class is at Brown. Can't remember specific examples but we definitely got the vibe that everyone gets along and are very supportive of each other. Every dorm has its own kitchen.

 

Cons: Housing is the same all four years. Most of the LACs we've visited have nicer dorms as you proceed through the years and many have apartments for upper classmen. So at Wheaton all dorms are all years, which I guess could be viewed as a benefit for some. Also, it seemed "small." We've been looking at all only small schools, and Hamilton at just a few hundred more students, which is dd's favorite, seemed much bigger. The campus felt small but it wasn't just the size. It seemed more like a prep school than a college. Also, the reason it got on our list was due to the open curriculum, but from what the tour guide was telling me there are quite a few required courses. I haven't had a chance to go onto their website and check out the details. The tour guide wasn't great. She seemed like she was adlibbing half of it, and there were a lot of questions she couldn't answer. Kind of a ditz. I hate when we get bad tour guides because it gives me a bad taste for the school, which I realize is my issue, lol! But we did speak to two other students just briefly upon arrival and they were great!

 

If you have any specific questions, I'll be happy to try to answer them. We're off to Lafayette and Muhlenberg this weekend.

 

 

I cannot thank you enough - Wheaton is officially off the list.  I just don't think there is anything compelling enough to warrant a visit.

 

I am excited to hear about your Lafayette and Muhlenberg visits!  They're practically in my back yard!

[catz]

Was Macalaster still being looked at?  We visited today and I loved it so much!  Lovely campus in a vibrant area, hipster, liberal, collaborative, non-competitive caring vibe.  Our tour guide told us a story how someone in admissions met with him at the airport just to chat because she was on her way out of town while he was just considering the school.  Sadly, my kid wasn't nearly as impressed as me.  LOL.