Boundaries with non-home-school-supporting grandparents?

[Terabith]

I can't find your other threads, and I don't know how realistic this is, but I would be seriously considering moving and not telling them till the house is sold.

[shawthorne44]

...the comment about high school being the "best years of their lives" would give me pause. ...

 

Just in general, I wonder about people that say that.   Best years, really?  How sad.  

[Tanaqui]

Yes. Even if high school was wonderful - which for most of us it wasn't - if those are the best years of your life then your life is basically over at graduation.

[Seasider]

I can't find your other threads, and I don't know how realistic this is, but I would be seriously considering moving and not telling them till the house is sold.

Seems rather drastic, but I have to admit it crossed my mind, too, once we were reminded of the threat to sue for custody. My best relationships with many extended family members have been at a distance. Visits are sweet and the boundaries are clear.

Edited July 17, 2017 by Seasider

[trulycrabby]

nm

Edited July 17, 2017 by trulycrabby

[Guest]

Yes. Even if high school was wonderful - which for most of us it wasn't - if those are the best years of your life then your life is basically over at graduation.

 

No kidding. Not to mention the difference in society between when they went to high school versus the high school experience kids have these days. Maybe make them watch 13 Reasons Why and see what they have to say about that. 

[Catwoman]

Seems rather drastic, but I have to admit it crossed my mind, too, once we were reminded of the threat to sue for custody. My best relationships with many extended family members have been at a distance. Visits are sweet and the boundaries are clear.

I keep wondering why they threatened to sue for custody. It's part of what's making me wonder if they know more about Moonhawk's home life than she thinks they do and if, perhaps, they are very worried about the children's safety because they have heard stories from the children about her dh's erratic behavior due to his mental health issues.

 

I'm not saying the grandparents have good reason to be worried, but I'm picturing little kids telling them stories about their dad that might make things sound a lot worse than they really are.

 

Moonhawk, what specific reasons have your parents given you for wanting custody of your children? I'm sure you have asked them why they would ever consider taking such extreme measures and I'm wondering how they have explained themselves, as well as how you have reacted and/or defended yourself. It doesn't make sense that they would be making such threats solely because of your decision to homeschool, and it also doesn't make sense to me that you would listen to such terrible threats and still drop the kids off at their house for a sleepover a day or two later (or whatever,) like everything was perfectly fine.

 

I feel like I'm missing a big piece of this puzzle.

 

 

(Edited for typo!)

Edited July 17, 2017 by Catwoman

[LMD]

This.

 

You learn about healthy boundaries and you think, "Oh, if I just say the correct thing we will be able to work through this situation like adults" but that does not work if the other party has beyond normal problems.

 

This was my bewildering experience too. Trying to have this discussion ended up in screaming and tears and an epic tantrum.

 

And when that someone threatened to call cps/sue for grandparents rights, that was the last time they saw my kids (5 years ago).

[Harriet Vane]

Just one thing to add to the discussion--

 

On the one hand, a threat to call CPS is to holding a loaded gun on a family.

 

On the other hand, threats to go for custody rarely pan out for grandparents except in cases of clear, documented, ongoing abuse. And by that I mean abuse that falls under a strict legal definition and that is not rehab-able.. And even then, it takes years. It is very, very difficult to disrupt parents' rights and nearly impossible to terminate them.

 

So what your parents are actually threatening is a potential expensive, legal headache. They are not likely to get custody.

 

BUT their threat and their apparent willingness to consider that path in the absence of physical or sexual abuse or criminal neglect speaks poorly of them. They still represent a danger, because if they choose to lie to authorities or if they do spark an investigation, the repercussions to a family life are terribly serious. It's a trauma that goes to the core of a child and of a family.

 

Of course, if there IS abuse or neglect, then those concerns must be taken seriously.

[MommyLiberty5013]

Here is an idea I have mulled over all day long. Would it be absolutely horrible to invite your mom here to the Hive if she does online stuff? She has had one bad experience with a home schooler and maybe she needs more to compare to - like all of us shmart, sophisticated folks from around the world.

 

You could not tell her you are on it too and that you just found it, or something. Or, you could tell her you are on it, and what your SN is and with that one make benign remarks every so often BUT THEN have your Hive alter-ego, which would be the real you.

 

Yes? No? Just thinking your parents need examples of home school success.

[zoobie]

Here is an idea I have mulled over all day long. Would it be absolutely horrible to invite your mom here to the Hive if she does online stuff? She has had one bad experience with a home schooler and maybe she needs more to compare to - like all of us shmart, sophisticated folks from around the world.

 

You could not tell her you are on it too and that you just found it, or something. Or, you could tell her you are on it, and what your SN is and with that one make benign remarks every so often BUT THEN have your Hive alter-ego, which would be the real you.

 

Yes? No? Just thinking your parents need examples of home school success.

Noooooo. If she recognized her daughter, that would be bad news. She would have tons of ammunition. There's nothing Moonhawk can say or do to convince them--did you read the abusive lengths they've gone to already?

[Word Nerd]

Noooooo. If she recognized her daughter, that would be bad news. She would have tons of ammunition. There's nothing Moonhawk can say or do to convince them--did you read the abusive lengths they've gone to already?

I agree. Though well-meaning, I think that's a very bad idea.

[Tanaqui]

Here is an idea I have mulled over all day long. Would it be absolutely horrible to invite your mom here to the Hive if she does online stuff? She has had one bad experience with a home schooler and maybe she needs more to compare to - like all of us shmart, sophisticated folks from around the world.

 

Depends. Is she popping by on a day when we all sing kumbaya, or on a day when we go back and forth about not-quite-politics?

 

[Guest]

I agree. Though well-meaning, I think that's a very bad idea.

 

Me too. Her parents are clearly educated and intelligent and if they truly wanted to look into it, they would and could check out the research and anything else. They choose not to investigate it, and there are probably some very complex reasons behind it. From my own personal experience, I think some of it likely comes from defensiveness as having their situation/judgement as lacking. The whole "my choice renders your choice automatically poor". Add to it that it can be seen as an attack on their former profession and you have fodder for all sorts of arm chair psychology. 

[MommyLiberty5013]

Yeah. I think you're all probably right. Hence, my mulling it over all day. Sorry, OP bad idea.

[MommyLiberty5013]

Depends. Is she popping by on a day when we all sing kumbaya, or on a day when we go back and forth about not-quite-politics?

Or on the day, when I ask about my dog's anal glands like I did today! Lol. I think the PPs are right, that it isn't a good idea. The parents could look into things if they cared to.

[snowbeltmom]

This was my bewildering experience too. Trying to have this discussion ended up in screaming and tears and an epic tantrum.

 

And when that someone threatened to call cps/sue for grandparents rights, that was the last time they saw my kids (5 years ago).

 

This.  There are some people that you simply can't have a rational conversation with.  You may not realize how irrational they are until you go against their wishes and do something that they don't approve of. 

 

I would not be surprised if this is the first time the OP has gone against the wishes of her parents.  It is difficult to understand how irrational some people can be unless you have first hand experience with dealing with the crazy. 

 

:grouphug:  to the OP. 

 

[LMD]

This. There are some people that you simply can't have a rational conversation with. You may not realize how irrational they are until you go against their wishes and do something that they don't approve of.

 

I would not be surprised if this is the first time the OP has gone against the wishes of her parents. It is difficult to understand how irrational some people can be unless you have first hand experience with dealing with the crazy.

 

:grouphug: to the OP.

 

Truth.

[OneStepAtATime]

Snowbeltmom said "You may not know how irrational they are until you go against their wishes....."  OH MY. HOW TRUE THIS IS.

Agreed.  The real test of a relationship with a parent/adult child is when you deliberately choose to go against their wishes.  

[Reefgazer]

I wouldn't do this; it's none of their business nor their choice why OP homeschools, and this only implies to them that the topic is open for debate.  OP is in deep enough as it is. 

 

I would clearly state to the grandparents that the topic is no longer open for discussion, and if they insist, you will have to leave.  Then follow through.  That's not using kids as pawns, that's setting boundaries.  Disentangle yourself from whatever they pay for, and stop discussing family problems with them if they cannot separate the problems from homeschooling.

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

 

Well, if you really want to preserve the relationship, have you considered trying to take them to a Homeschool convention or some sort of well organized homeschool group activity so they can see that you aren't living in a cave doing this all by yourselves?  I'm just thinking they might be less intensely negative if they were to realize through first hand observation that this is not really a fringe thing done by reclusive weirdos.  Maybe they could sit in on a seminar or something.  Are there any conventions or homeschool organizations in your area?

 

Or maybe you know some local homeschoolers that successfully homeschooled through High School that might be willing to come talk with them?

 

Have you asked them to share with you EXACTLY, point for point, what it is they are concerned about?

 

But in the long run if they continue to get more aggressive about this you may have to distance yourselves from them for a time.

 

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

 

Edited July 18, 2017 by reefgazer

[JFSinIL]

I would NOT send the kids over to their house any longer for any visits, overnight or otherwise.  Who knows what the kids hear about home schooling  from them. You KNOW grandma is probably talking up how wonderful "real" school is to them, at the very least.   Just - no.  You have to also be ready to take the girls and LEAVE if at a supervised visit the grandfolks start in on the forbidden topic. 

 

I would make it crystal clear that the topic was no longer up for discussion.  If they call and start in, "oh, gotta go" and HANG UP.  I used this when my mom kept calling me to complain about how my siblings (who lived an hour away, I am several states away) never called or visited.  I told her I wasn't discussing it anymore, when she'd keep going on and on I would "gotta go" and hang up..  She got the message, and phone calls are much more fun and productive (not solely her complaining about my sibs) now.

 

If they show up at your door, if during the day "Sorry, we are still doing school" body block the door do NOT let them in.  Letting them in to watch will backfire - they sound pre-programmed to find flaws in your homeschooling instead of being impressed on how well the kids are doing (and odds are their presence will be the one time a kid acts up etc.)

 

Good luck, and come vent here about them as much as needed!

 

Do you watch Gilmore Girls on Netflix?  This makes me think of Richard and Emily (the grandparents) trying to manipulate their daughter (even trying to replace her - to them not worthy - boyfriend Luke with someone they thought more suitable, etc.)   

 

 

Edited July 18, 2017 by JFSinIL

[OneStepAtATime]

I wouldn't do this; it's none of their business nor their choice why OP homeschools, and this only implies to them that the topic is open for debate.  OP is in deep enough as it is. 

 

I would clearly state to the grandparents that the topic is no longer open for discussion, and if they insist, you will have to leave.  Then follow through.  That's not using kids as pawns, that's setting boundaries.  Disentangle yourself from whatever they pay for, and stop discussing family problems with them if they cannot separate the problems from homeschooling.

I posted that response before finding out more details.  In a normal relationship I absolutely would want to preserve my relationship with my parents and opening up a positive dialogue (not an infomercial on homeschooling) instead of immediately shutting my doors to further discourse 100% helped me and my family.  I am glad we chose that path.  Mom is my staunchest advocate now, as are many other family members that were NOT open to this choice when we first went down this path.  My willingness to listen and discuss instead of immediately shutting them down worked for all of us.  However, they were not controlling, are very rational caring individuals that respect me and only expressed concern because they loved us and wanted what was best for us.

 

In OPs case, though, once I read more, I agree she is in a different and much more dangerous position.  And the relationship does not sound balanced at all.  I agree, I would not want them feeling they can control the situation or that OP owes them anything for their involvement.  I would be carefully pulling back and extracting them from being so involved in our lives.  And I would be very worried as to how they would react as the kids get older, especially if what is happening at home were to come out in a concrete way.  They may or may not have true legal recourse but they could absolutely make life a living he** for OP and her children should they choose to.

[Reefgazer]

Oh no, no, no, no, no....

Here is an idea I have mulled over all day long. Would it be absolutely horrible to invite your mom here to the Hive if she does online stuff? She has had one bad experience with a home schooler and maybe she needs more to compare to - like all of us shmart, sophisticated folks from around the world.

 

You could not tell her you are on it too and that you just found it, or something. Or, you could tell her you are on it, and what your SN is and with that one make benign remarks every so often BUT THEN have your Hive alter-ego, which would be the real you.

 

Yes? No? Just thinking your parents need examples of home school success.

 

[MommyLiberty5013]

Dup

Edited July 18, 2017 by MommyLiberty5013

[MommyLiberty5013]

Oh no, no, no, no, no....

We already covered this further up thread. It's a non issue now. Not any longer relevant.

[heartlikealion]

This sounds so much like Gilmore Girls to me. They pay for the school so they expect to see Rory and her mom every Friday night for dinner. Well, don't let them pay for TKD and maybe you don't feel obligated to be there every week. I'm not really sure why you're there every week (4 times?!) if the visits aren't pleasant.

[Catwoman]

This sounds so much like Gilmore Girls to me. They pay for the school so they expect to see Rory and her mom every Friday night for dinner. Well, don't let them pay for TKD and maybe you don't feel obligated to be there every week. I'm not really sure why you're there every week (4 times?!) if the visits aren't pleasant.

That's what I can't figure out, either. It makes no sense to me.

 

On one hand, Moonhawk's parents are controlling and manipulative; they constantly criticize her for homeschooling, suggest that she's too lazy to get the kids ready for school in the morning, and have gone so far as to threaten to sue for custody of her children. But on the other hand, she visits them 4 times a week, the kids have regular weekly sleepovers at their house and miss them if they don't see them, they pay for the kids' TKD, and Moonhawk says they truly want the best for her and her kids.

 

:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

[QueenCat]

Noooooo. If she recognized her daughter, that would be bad news. She would have tons of ammunition. There's nothing Moonhawk can say or do to convince them--did you read the abusive lengths they've gone to already?

 

Spot on, no way should she do this!

[Jean in Newcastle]

That's what I can't figure out, either. It makes no sense to me.

 

On one hand, Moonhawk's parents are controlling and manipulative; they constantly criticize her for homeschooling, suggest that she's too lazy to get the kids ready for school in the morning, and have gone so far as to threaten to sue for custody of her children. But on the other hand, she visits them 4 times a week, the kids have regular weekly sleepovers at their house and miss them if they don't see them, they pay for the kids' TKD, and Moonhawk says they truly want the best for her and her kids.

 

:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

I don't think that it's that hard to understand. The OP gets financial and childcare support that she doesn't get from her husband. Of course the issue though is that instead of being free, it actually comes at a fairly steep price.

[Tanaqui]

I can think of many explanations for this behavior, Catwoman. Actually, I find it pretty typical for people with parents who are controlling but not outright abusive - and even for some whose parents are outright abusive!

[Catwoman]

I don't think that it's that hard to understand. The OP gets financial and childcare support that she doesn't get from her husband. Of course the issue though is that instead of being free, it actually comes at a fairly steep price.

  

I can think of many explanations for this behavior, Catwoman. Actually, I find it pretty typical for people with parents who are controlling but not outright abusive - and even for some whose parents are outright abusive!

Well, maybe you understand it, but I don't.

 

Why would anyone visit their parents 4 TIMES A WEEK if those parents were abusive to her? That's ridiculous. And the once-a-week sleepovers are hardly necessary. It's not like her parents are watching the kids while she goes to necessary medical appointments or to a part time job that doesn't pay enough to make it worth hiring a sitter for the kids. And TKD lessons aren't an absolute necessity, either, so there is no actual need to accept money from her parents.

[OneStepAtATime]

That's what I can't figure out, either. It makes no sense to me.

 

On one hand, Moonhawk's parents are controlling and manipulative; they constantly criticize her for homeschooling, suggest that she's too lazy to get the kids ready for school in the morning, and have gone so far as to threaten to sue for custody of her children. But on the other hand, she visits them 4 times a week, the kids have regular weekly sleepovers at their house and miss them if they don't see them, they pay for the kids' TKD, and Moonhawk says they truly want the best for her and her kids.

 

:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

 

If this is how the family dynamic normally works the grandparents may very well come across as truly wanting the best for her and her kids.  And maybe they do, in their own way.  They just want "what's best" on their terms only.  They seem rigid and narrow minded and controlling and apparently cannot see another view point.  Doesn't mean they don't care.  (of course, just because someone cares doesn't mean the relationship is a healthy one).

 

Since they haven't ditched her and the kids, they don't ignore them or refuse to be around them, they DO babysit and interact and pay for extracurriculars, honestly they are a lot more involved and "caring" than other grandparents I know.  They may be controlling and critical but if Moonhawk is used to that dynamic this probably doesn't seem abnormal or as though they don't care.  What they are doing is hurtful and honestly I don't think it is healthy but I absolutely understand why she would see them as caring. To people who do not have that family dynamic, though, it can seem incomprehensible why someone would subject themselves to that scenario.

[Mimm]

That's what I can't figure out, either. It makes no sense to me.

 

On one hand, Moonhawk's parents are controlling and manipulative; they constantly criticize her for homeschooling, suggest that she's too lazy to get the kids ready for school in the morning, and have gone so far as to threaten to sue for custody of her children. But on the other hand, she visits them 4 times a week, the kids have regular weekly sleepovers at their house and miss them if they don't see them, they pay for the kids' TKD, and Moonhawk says they truly want the best for her and her kids.

 

:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

 

I think when you're in a toxic relationship (and a relationship where a parent is threatening to take their adult not abusive daughter's children away is toxic) then you don't necessarily have a good sense of what's normal. She's focusing on the good, and there is good there. And putting up with the bad, probably because it's always been like that.

 

:grouphug:  Moonhawk, you don't deserve to be treated that way.

[Mimm]

  

Well, maybe you understand it, but I don't.

 

Why would anyone visit their parents 4 TIMES A WEEK if those parents were abusive to her? That's ridiculous. And the once-a-week sleepovers are hardly necessary. It's not like her parents are watching the kids while she goes to necessary medical appointments or to a part time job that doesn't pay enough to make it worth hiring a sitter for the kids. And TKD lessons aren't an absolute necessity, either, so there is no actual need to accept money from her parents.

 

My kids had once a week sleepovers at their grandparents' house for years and not for any necessary medical-related reason. They enjoyed them, we enjoyed the night off. We're down to every other week now. My 3 year old started to go last year. They are fun. But my inlaws are awesome and respectful of our parenting and our decisions.

[zoobie]

I think when you're in a toxic relationship (and a relationship where a parent is threatening to take their adult not abusive daughter's children away is toxic) then you don't necessarily have a good sense of what's normal. She's focusing on the good, and there is good there. And putting up with the bad, probably because it's always been like that.

 

:grouphug:  Moonhawk, you don't deserve to be treated that way.

 

The pattern of abusive relationships is troubling. Moonhawk, I hope you are seeing someone for yourself. Do it for your kids. :grouphug:

[Catwoman]

If this is how the family dynamic normally works the grandparents may very well come across as truly wanting the best for her and her kids. And maybe they do, in their own way. They just want "what's best" on their terms only. They seem rigid and narrow minded and controlling and apparently cannot see another view point. Doesn't mean they don't care. (of course, just because someone cares doesn't mean the relationship is a healthy one).

 

Since they haven't ditched her and the kids, they don't ignore them or refuse to be around them, they DO babysit and interact and pay for extracurriculars, honestly they are a lot more involved and "caring" than other grandparents I know. They may be controlling and critical but if Moonhawk is used to that dynamic this probably doesn't seem abnormal or as though they don't care. What they are doing is hurtful and honestly I don't think it is healthy but I absolutely understand why she would see them as caring. To people who do not have that family dynamic, though, it can seem incomprehensible why someone would subject themselves to that scenario.

I'm sure they do care. I'm not even sure they're all that terrible, because we don't know what Moonhawk's kids have told them about their home life and their dad's mental illness. They may very well be worried about Moonhawk and the kids and think they're helping her by trying to get her to send the kids to school. Or maybe they don't know about the mental illness and when see that Moonhawk has been very stressed, they think it's because of the homeschooling being too much pressure on her. Obviously, they shouldn't try to be so controlling no matter what the case, but their motivations may not be awful.

 

But that doesn't change the fact that Moonhawk is complaining about them, while at the same time she is still visiting them 4 times a week and accepting financial assistance from them and letting the kids sleep over at their house every week. I don't think she can have it both ways.

[bolt.]

It sounds like they are a close family, and the grandparents generally keep their "concerns" to themselves, but there have been heated moments, fights, arguments and blow-outs over the years. This creates a backlog of 'things said once in anger' (that are pretty unforgettable, even if apologies are made) and an overtone of knowing that they don't approve. To me it sounds like a bit of a 'cold war'.

 

In between blow-ups, they probably have perfectly normal times.

 

She said it comes up occasionally, usually around time to register for school. She never said they snipe at her constantly, and she seems to believe their claim that they don't bring it up with the kids.

[OneStepAtATime]

  

Well, maybe you understand it, but I don't.

 

Why would anyone visit their parents 4 TIMES A WEEK if those parents were abusive to her? That's ridiculous. And the once-a-week sleepovers are hardly necessary. It's not like her parents are watching the kids while she goes to necessary medical appointments or to a part time job that doesn't pay enough to make it worth hiring a sitter for the kids. And TKD lessons aren't an absolute necessity, either, so there is no actual need to accept money from her parents.

Since she is dealing with an incredibly challenging situation with her DH I am assuming the once a week sleepovers give her a chance for either a night to take a break/breather or to freely discuss things with DH without the kids being in ear shot.  It also gets them out of a very dysfunctional household and away from a very unhealthy situation with their dad.   I also assume that she is living a pretty lonely life right now because of the situation with DH.  Interacting with her parents probably isn't all criticism and negativity.  They probably have good moments, too, and at least she has some social interaction as well as her kids getting out and seeing family.  Plus, she has some back up support if things truly go to he** in a handbasket with DH.  It is hard to walk away from support (even unhealthy support) when you have no good options as an alternative, especially with small children in the mix.

 

I am not in her shoes.  None of us is.  She is doing what she feels she needs to do to survive day to day.  She has faced some incredibly hard times with no easy answers or good paths to follow.  Sometimes that means we get stuck in a negative scenario even though we are trying to do the right thing.  And I agree, it is probably hard for her to know what "normal" is or how far off from normal they are or what to do about it without making things much worse.  

 

And I feel bad "talking" as if you are not here, Moonhawk.  I am so sorry you are in such a negative situation.  I wish I could help.  Sending best wishes and hopes for better days.

[Catwoman]

My kids had once a week sleepovers at their grandparents' house for years and not for any necessary medical-related reason. They enjoyed them, we enjoyed the night off. We're down to every other week now. My 3 year old started to go last year. They are fun. But my inlaws are awesome and respectful of our parenting and our decisions.

There's nothing wrong with the fun sleepovers or the visiting 4 times a week or accepting the money for the TKD lessons, except that Moonhawk seems very unhappy with the relationship -- and if her parents have threatened to sue for custody of her children, it seems odd to have such an otherwise positive relationship with them. I'm not sure how anyone could remain in such an incredibly close relationship with people who threatened to sue for custody of her children. Even if it's possible to overlook negative comments about homeschooling, is it really possible to think Grandma and Grandpa are worth seeing several times a week after they've threatened to take her kids away from her?

 

As I suggested in an earlier post, I really think Moonhawk needs counseling to deal with this.

[snowbeltmom]

That's what I can't figure out, either. It makes no sense to me.

 

On one hand, Moonhawk's parents are controlling and manipulative; they constantly criticize her for homeschooling, suggest that she's too lazy to get the kids ready for school in the morning, and have gone so far as to threaten to sue for custody of her children. But on the other hand, she visits them 4 times a week, the kids have regular weekly sleepovers at their house and miss them if they don't see them, they pay for the kids' TKD, and Moonhawk says they truly want the best for her and her kids.

 

:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

I agree that it seems to make no sense when you are on the outside looking in and have been fortunate to never have encountered these type of people.   

 

For those of us who have had the misfortune of having to navigate these types of relationships (especially if it involves a parent) the OPs actions make perfect sense.  I am not saying that the OP should not make changes and set boundaries, because she definitely should.  However, up until now, it was probably easier for the OP to go along with the demands of the grandparents than to deal with the guilt trips and temper tantrums that follow when the word "no" is uttered. 

[Catwoman]

It sounds like they are a close family, and the grandparents generally keep their "concerns" to themselves, but there have been heated moments, fights, arguments and blow-outs over the years. This creates a backlog of 'things said once in anger' (that are pretty unforgettable, even if apologies are made) and an overtone of knowing that they don't approve. To me it sounds like a bit of a 'cold war'.

 

In between blow-ups, they probably have perfectly normal times.

 

She said it comes up occasionally, usually around time to register for school. She never said they snipe at her constantly, and she seems to believe their claim that they don't bring it up with the kids.

This doesn't sound like it's an occasional thing:

 

How do you handle boundaries with loving, overly involved grandparents who don't support home school?

 

My parents are unhappy about homeschool. Extremely. Crying, stomping feet, dire threats of kids outcomes. Constant offers to take the kids to school — any school within 50 miles — and pay for it. Saying I could drop them off at 7am and pick them up at 6pm if I am "too lazy to get them ready for schoolâ€, anything but home school.

 

This has not gone down with the “By the fruits they will know†approach. They can brag about how good the kids are and in the same breath say “but you are ruining them with home school.â€

 [/size][/font][/color]

She also said her parents didn't want her to ruin her kids' lives the way she's ruined her own life.

 

That doesn't sound "perfectly normal" to me at all.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I'm sure they do care. I'm not even sure they're all that terrible, because we don't know what Moonhawk's kids have told them about their home life and their dad's mental illness. They may very well be worried about Moonhawk and the kids and think they're helping her by trying to get her to send the kids to school. Or maybe they don't know about the mental illness and when see that Moonhawk has been very stressed, they think it's because of the homeschooling being too much pressure on her. Obviously, they shouldn't try to be so controlling no matter what the case, but their motivations may not be awful.

But that doesn't change the fact that Moonhawk is complaining about them, while at the same time she is still visiting them 4 times a week and accepting financial assistance from them and letting the kids sleep over at their house every week. I don't think she can have it both ways.

Of course she can have it both ways. Have you never needed anyone, Catwoman? Have you seriously never had to put up with any level of...crap...just to survive through a really rough patch?

 

Having been a child in a home that needed intervention, with help for mental illness FAR less easy to obtain than people assume, a mother who needed her parents, those grandparents falling all over both sides of the line (between looking away and hoping for the best v. overstepping with commands and ultimatums which were NOT what anyone needed)...it was rough. Frequently really bad. Yet we likely would not have survived without them, on a very basic food and water level. And now the grown children help the elderly grandparents. The family made it through, thank God.

 

This is how the other half lives. We can't always start with cutting people off. It may come to that, but to lose your only support and help is hard. People can't just hire someone for everything. Dysfunction doesn't happen for no reason - it starts with someone being low on options.

 

I hope moonhawks situation can improve.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

We need some sort of bat signal that goes up to tell us we're all typing the same durn thing.

[kbutton]

It is also possible for the grandparents to be caring and controlling and not really realize they have some kind of issue that isn't just breaking boundaries. Hidden disabilities are real. People keep up appearances for a long time until...whatever happens that makes them less able to be functional, or they have to function in a realm or under circumstances that don't help mitigate their less capable parts of functioning. I even know a retired schoolteacher like this (just mentioning since I believe the OP said her parents are retired school teachers). 

 

I have a MIL that either has a developmental disability (such as ASD) or is mentally ill (runs in the family). For sure, she has ADHD (has all but said as much), and she had some fairly mysterious and inconclusive testing for developmental issues as a child (she's on the older side to be my MIL, so it was in the days where if they found an issue, depending on what it was, she could have been denied an education, so I assume they didn't dig too deeply). She is absolutely well-meaning. But she's not dealing with a neurotypical deck or neurotypical view of the situation no matter how you slice it. 

 

We have had to institute serious boundaries with her, and the more that people have started doing this, the more obvious it gets that it really is *her.* and while she has many skills and strong points, discretion and discernment might not be her strong points. 

 

OP,  :grouphug: . You've gotten a lot of good advice. I would document the things that are said--start with a general historic narrative, and then start writing the comments on a calendar of some kind or with dates and context for future reference. 

 

***ETA: my original first sentence was not a complete thought.

Edited July 18, 2017 by kbutton

[Catwoman]

Of course she can have it both ways. Have you never needed anyone, Catwoman? Have you seriously never had to put up with any level of...crap...just to survive through a really rough patch?

Having been a child in a home that needed intervention, with help for mental illness FAR less easy to obtain than people assume, a mother who needed her parents, those grandparents falling all over both sides of the line (between looking away and hoping for the best v. overstepping with commands and ultimatums which were NOT what anyone needed)...it was rough. Frequently really bad. Yet we likely would not have survived without them, on a very basic food and water level. And now the grown children help the elderly grandparents. The family made it through, thank God.

This is how the other half lives. We can't always start with cutting people off. It may come to that, but to lose your only support and help is hard. People can't just hire someone for everything. Dysfunction doesn't happen for no reason - it starts with someone being low on options.

I hope moonhawks situation can improve.

I'm sorry, Tibbie, but at what point did I suggest that Moonhawk should "start with cutting people off?" :glare:

 

If you read my other posts in this thread, one of the first things I suggested was that Moonhawk should seek counseling so she could try to improve her self-esteem and so she could learn to stand up for herself more effectively.

[Jean in Newcastle]

  

Well, maybe you understand it, but I don't.

 

Why would anyone visit their parents 4 TIMES A WEEK if those parents were abusive to her? That's ridiculous. And the once-a-week sleepovers are hardly necessary. It's not like her parents are watching the kids while she goes to necessary medical appointments or to a part time job that doesn't pay enough to make it worth hiring a sitter for the kids. And TKD lessons aren't an absolute necessity, either, so there is no actual need to accept money from her parents.

 

Yikes.  I don't think that you realize it but your posts are coming across as someone who wants the best for Moonhawk and her kids but who is trying to control her into doing it your way.  Because that is the subtext of "I don't understand".  It's not a simple "I don't understand the words or concept so please explain it to me."  It's a "I don't understand why anyone would do such a thing that I would never ever consider doing."  Giving her the advice to reconsider the amount of time she is spending with them and the narrative that the kids are hearing is one thing, putting in language that belittles her choices up until now is not ok.  It's not respectful of Moonhawk and the choices she's having to make every day in the trenches where she knows the situation much better than we do from reading posts on a message board. 

[Guest]

It sounds like they are a close family, and the grandparents generally keep their "concerns" to themselves, but there have been heated moments, fights, arguments and blow-outs over the years. This creates a backlog of 'things said once in anger' (that are pretty unforgettable, even if apologies are made) and an overtone of knowing that they don't approve. To me it sounds like a bit of a 'cold war'.

 

In between blow-ups, they probably have perfectly normal times.

 

She said it comes up occasionally, usually around time to register for school. She never said they snipe at her constantly, and she seems to believe their claim that they don't bring it up with the kids.

 

I don't know about Moonhawk, but you pretty much just summed my situation up in a nutshell! 

[Anne in CA]

Um, any time your kids spend the night with someone one day a week, you have no secrets AT ALL from that person. Kids ALWAYS know what is really going on, no matter how much you think they don't. I did children's ministry for years and heard kids prayer requests. Believe me, you don't really have the secrets you think you do. Your parents know your dh has issues, and while that may be part of the problem, I agree with Cat, that you probably got used to getting pushed around because your parents sound like they are super controlling.

 

There have been many other women on the board who had the same issues over the last 18 years and all of them had other problems with their parents also, it was never ONLY the home schooling. My dh's uncle had in-laws who did not want their only grandson to go to gifted classes and tried all the tactics you are talking about to keep dh's uncle from being labeled gifted and starting Oregon State at the age of 9. They finally did back out of their life all together because it only got worse. The grandparents thought that labeling a child with a genius IQ as a genius would ruin him. They were wrong. He has had a wonderful life, probably he is so charming and fun because the nutty grandparents didn't get to help raise him. But they really thought that the final say was theirs. They went away completely when they didn't get their way, and only then could everyone understand how dysfunctional they really were and had always been. 

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I'm sorry, Tibbie, but at what point did I suggest that Moonhawk should "start with cutting people off?" :glare:

 

If you read my other posts in this thread, one of the first things I suggested was that Moonhawk should seek counseling so she could try to improve her self-esteem and so she could learn to stand up for herself more effectively.

Well, yes, I read your posts. I'm addressing your inability to comprehend the scenario.

 

Moonhawk doesn't have other babysitters. If she wants to go to counseling, these grandparents are the people who will watch the kids while she learns how to stop needing them...

[Tanaqui]

Catwoman, I agree that in the long run, she can't have it both ways. That's why I recommended she pulls back from having her kids spend so much time with her parents, and stops accepting financial assistance for extras like TKD. I also agree that counseling would be a good idea, given the amount of stress in her life - assuming she could get it without relying on her parents either to pay for some or to watch the kids.

 

However, the thing is, human relationships are complicated. On the outside it seems simple: If your partner hits you, you should leave. If your parents are mean, you should distance yourself from them. If your boss is a jerk, you should get another job.

 

But on the inside, it's not so simple. It's all messy and confused - especially when it comes to parents. Even really abusive parents (and it doesn't sound like hers are "really abusive", just controlling and possibly a bit toxic) are usually not abusive every second. It's not 24/7 beatings and insults. Instead it's mostly dinners together and chores and the occasional beating "for your own good" after which Mom or Dad cries ("this hurts me more than it hurts you") and a lot of "we know best, so do what we say". And mixed in with this are fun trips to the beach, and great birthday presents, and hugs, and family memories, and everybody talking about parental love and anyway, blood is thicker than water, right? And if you grow up with this, it's all normal. It can be hard to even see that there's something wrong, or how wrong it is. (Especially if there isn't any physical violence!)

 

It's a much more toxic mess, in its way, than straightforward sadism would be.