Help make this unpleasent

[Χά�ων]

We are planning a 3 week long road trip over the winter to the southeast United States including in South Florida and the Florida Keys. I'm trying to presented in such a way that is seems less as than cool than it will be. I need help. How does one make leaving the cold midwest in the middle of winter to go on a fully paid trip that includes, Key West, Universal Studios, Everglades, KSC, and a resort in a historic district in either GA or SC, seem unpleasent?

 

We are not made of money. I keep getting pressure, both internal (trying to change the internal dialouge) and external to include mid 20 somethings with no real job on our dime. Including them makes our costs more than double due to vehicle and lodging complications. It means less vacation for us.

 

The "fair" solution presented is to exclude all kids, even the minor children. I feel this is BS. But then what I expect is that by mid20's they hage their own life.

 

 

Also if I am not wrong that the mid 20 somethings can figure their vacation out or that it is not wrong to exclude more than legal adults who should have established their own household, while still including the minors, that would be great to know. Ditto if I am wrong and that family vacations are every child , and potential partners and dependents (they do not have any children, but are wll into the age range to be married for 5+ years and to have their own children) no matter their age, that would be fine.

 

I feel I cannot win. DS and I can go without a problem. DH and I can go without a problem. But if DH and I take only the children who are legally minors...

[chiguirre]

So are they volunteering to babysit for 3 weeks if you leave the minor child at home?

[amy g.]

I would be able to take some of my kids on vacation and not others. In fact, I'm doing it several times next month. One adult kid is staying home to take care of my dogs and study.

 

But......I would not do this if it were going to cause hard feelings within the family.

 

You are within your rights. But it wouldn't be worth creating conflict that might last longer than the aggravation of bringing them along.

[Amy in NH]

Tell them that they are adults and will have to pay for their own vacation. If they choose to tack it onto yours, they can pay the difference, up front. There is enough time before the trip for them to do that if it's that important to them.

[Χά�ων]

So are they volunteering to babysit for 3 weeks if you leave the minor child at home?

Yeah right. DS is 13 and waaaaay more mature and would be the one I would leave in charge. He is the one I would consider the most able to handle an emergency.

[PinkTulip]

What's fair is not necessarily equal. I'm sure when 20-somethings were younger, they got to do things that minor child could not, so now it's minor child's turn to get to do something fun. If 20-somethings want to come along, and you have the physical room, I would tell them they need to pay for at least half of their added expenses. Mid-20-somethings should get jobs and contribute.

[Farrar]

I don't think there's a "right" answer to this. You have your finances and you have the right to organize your vacation however you wish. I think it's totally fine to exclude the adult children. I think it's fine to exclude all the children. I think it's fine to take some children and not others. I think you can do whatever you like, basically. And I think there are wonderful benefits to doing a vacation that's small and completely different wonderful benefits to doing a vacation that's everyone and their partners and kitchen sinks. Both are great and have their place.

 

But whatever you do, I think you have to be willing to justify it. And making the vacation sound cruddy won't do it. I think you have to be able to say, dh and I wanted this time together, it's none of your business. Or, we wanted to bond with youngests while they're still at home. Or, remember when we went to such and such when you were little before youngest could appreciate vacations at all - it all comes back around. Or even just, when I was 20-something, I organized my own vacations and they were crappy local camping trips, but I invite you to do the same.

 

And once you've said your piece, let it go and act like everyone else will too.

[Χά�ων]

I would be able to take some of my kids on vacation and not others. In fact, I'm doing it several times next month. One adult kid is staying home to take care of my dogs and study.

 

But......I would not do this if it were going to cause hard feelings within the family.

 

You are within your rights. But it wouldn't be worth creating conflict that might last longer than the aggravation of bringing them along.

I do not speak or interact with the inlaws so there will be no stress on me. DH would get the brunt of it before and after.

 

I guess in my perfect little world if they had real jobs they would not have 3 weeks of vacation time to take. I would be open to paying for a bus for them to come to the part I know they really like.

 

The rest of the vacation they are meh about. Sorry, I am not open to meh. Eother you are all in or I am not paying.

[TeenagerMom]

A mid-20 something that wanted to come along on vacation with us would have to deal with rooming with us because we wouldn't be doubling our lodging costs by getting an extra room.  Period.

[Χά�ων]

First, do the older kids even want to go? Or do they not know about it yet? Do they live on their own?

Second, setting a fixed budget might take care of the issue. If you don't have $1000 extra $$, you don't have it, ykwim? The older kids, of course, don't have to know what the budget is.

Third, if *you and dh* (exclude external forces) want everyone to go, maybe you can contribute a set amount towards the olders and then they can come up with the rest.

 

Just some thoughts off the top of my head...

I am doing something along this line. If we hit Universal I will pay for the base ticket, if they want to upgrade or do a tour or anything else, it is on them. I buy one meal out a day, the rest is easy foor. The meal I buy does not include any drink except tap water or dessert or appetizer. If it is an entree so massive as to feed two, I may insist on sharing. DH and I always share an entree. Lodging may be little more than the cheapest place that will allow 4+ bed sharing or sleeping on the floor is reality.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Tell them, then, that it's peanut butter and jelly and koolaid, and sleeping four to a bed or on the floor. And anyone complaining will not be given a sandwich, and not allowed to sleep in the overcrowded motel, either.

[Χά�ων]

A mid-20 something that wanted to come along on vacation with us would have to deal with rooming with us because we wouldn't be doubling our lodging costs by getting an extra room. Period.

If mid 20 somethins tag along we are over the common 4 person limit in hotel rooms and are in the position of having to get a second room or upgrade to a suite. Neither are on my list of things I will ever do to accomadate adult tag alongs

[Guest]

Remind me--aren't these the very entitled step-kids? Do they not go on vacation with their other parent?

[Annie G]

I am doing something along this line. If we hit Universal I will pay for the base ticket, if they want to upgrade or do a tour or anything else, it is on them. I buy one meal out a day, the rest is easy foor. The meal I buy does not include any drink except tap water or dessert or appetizer. If it is an entree so massive as to feed two, I may insist on sharing. DH and I always share an entree. Lodging may be little more than the cheapest place that will allow 4+ bed sharing or sleeping on the floor is reality.

 

See, this is the kind of thing I said to my kids when they were 13.  Once they're in their 20's I want them to level up and play as adults.  (Which is why our 20 somethings don't vacation with us unless we specifically plan for the trip to be 'all family') 

 

I feel your pain, but I think if you make these kinds of rules you're going to HATE this trip and spend the whole thing monitoring all the meals, activities, etc.  

[Bambam]

Man, I just had this conversation with my 19 year old who thinks she should get everything my 16 year old does.

Nope, honey, you are transitioning to adulthood. Remember how you keep telling me you are an adult now and I should treat you like one? Well, this is adulthood. My first priority is your little sister. She is a minor and I am responsible for her legally and morally. You got all this stuff when you were a minor. You are no longer a minor. Go forth and earn your own money to buy things. I provide your college tuition and room/board. I pay your health insurance. I pay your health bills. I pay your dental bills. Grow up. 

[PinkTulip]

If mid 20 somethins tag along we are over the common 4 person limit in hotel rooms and are in the position of having to get a second room or upgrade to a suite. Neither are on my list of things I will ever do to accomadate adult tag alongs

I totally support you in this. If another hotel room is needed if they come, they should be paying for either all of it, or a significant portion of it - whatever is most feasible for you.

 

I'm so sorry you are dealing with this. It seems from your previous posts that these "kids" (adults!) create a lot of stress in your life. I'm sure it's hard.

[Χά�ων]

Remind me--aren't these the very entitled step-kids? Do they not go on vacation with their other parent?

The other parent is not on the picture.

[gaillardia]

Maybe I don't know your situation...are these your adult children? 

Why do you think they would be wanting to go? Going to the Keys or Florida anywhere in the fall and winter is not something that I'd want to do with mom and dad anyhow.  :lol:  Prices and availability will not be cheap.

 

They can drive their own vehicle, pay for their own food, pay for their own room. If that were us, I think that is how we'd be working it out because we most likely wouldn't be affording more than four people either. 

Ask them what their plans are for that time period then lay it out to them that you are not in charge of their lives and how they spend their money, and they are not obligated to go on vacation with you but that if they want to go, they have to pay their own way for the most part.

[nixpix5]

We leave our two 20 somethings out of family vacations all of the time and just take the three dependent ones. We went to Disneyland last year and did exactly that. I even was bold enough to ask the one who lived in our town at the time to come over and house sit with our dog. If I had the money I would invite them if it was that sort of family vacation but otherwise, I expect my 20 somethings to have their own place and their own careers along with their own vacations. I really wouldn't feel bad. I certainly wouldn't try to paint it in a less than desirable light. I would just say this is what we are doing, see you when we get back. If you aren't going until winter it does give them tike to get a part time job and contribute if they really want to go ;)

[Χά�ων]

See, this is the kind of thing I said to my kids when they were 13. Once they're in their 20's I want them to level up and play as adults. (Which is why our 20 somethings don't vacation with us unless we specifically plan for the trip to be 'all family')

 

I feel your pain, but I think if you make these kinds of rules you're going to HATE this trip and spend the whole thing monitoring all the meals, activities, etc.

I think you are right. I was not in love with the last trip and it was even fewer meals out. Yes, I monitored. I do not allow my 13 year old to order soda when eating out, why would I pay for an adult to drink unhealthy beverages? But yeah, it is not what they are used to and I will have to monitor them.

[gardenmom5]

if mid20 somethings want to come- let them know how much hotel rooms cost (and they'll be paying for their own room) and how much meals cost (and they'll be paying for theirs)... .when they have to cough up money, it's not as fun anymore.

and while I can be more patient with a *full-time* student - I'm not so patient with one who isn't.

 

 

eta: I guess I will add this.  last summer, I took the two students who lived at home and rented a 2bd condo.  an established child wanted to come.  I let said child know they would need to pay the cost difference between a 2bd and a 3bd (they could easily afford it). suddenly - it wasn't as enticing and they didn't come.

Edited July 15, 2017 by gardenmom5

[Χά�ων]

Maybe I don't know your situation...are these your adult children?

Why do you think they would be wanting to go? Going to the Keys or Florida anywhere in the fall and winter is not something that I'd want to do with mom and dad anyhow. :lol: Prices and availability will not be cheap.

 

They can drive their own vehicle, pay for their own food, pay for their own room. If that were us, I think that is how we'd be working it out because we most likely wouldn't be affording more than four people either.

Ask them what their plans are for that time period then lay it out to them that you are not in charge of their lives and how they spend their money, and they are not obligated to go on vacation with you but that if they want to go, they have to pay their own way for the most part.

Step-children.

 

I wish I could say driving there was something they could.figure out how to do. It was hell getting one to put their dishes in the dishwasher and I pushed them to walk to work and to the grocery store. I have never seen anyone with ao little motivation for anything.

[Χά�ων]

I expect my 20 somethings to have their own place and their own careers along with their own vacations.

I agree with this. The inlaws do not. It has been less than ideal to navigate the rock and hardplace to blend the families.

[Χά�ων]

if mid20 somethings want to come- let them know how much hotel rooms cost (and they'll be paying for their own room) and how much meals cost (and they'll be paying for theirs)... .when they have to cough up money, it's not as fun anymore.

and while I can be more patient with a *full-time* student - I'm not so patient with one who isn't.

 

 

eta: I guess I will add this. last summer, I took the two students who lived at home and rented a 2bd condo. an established child wanted to come. I let said child know they would need to pay the cost difference between a 2bd and a 3bd (they could easily afford it). suddenly - it wasn't as enticing and they didn't come.

I may do this. When I plan I keep a cost per person on my spreadsheet, I can easily print it out.

 

I should add that I am not against them coming. I think it would be fun to go to Universal Studios with them. I would pay for admission and a bus ticket there.

 

But I am not planning to be at Universal for 3 weeks and frankly, if they tag along for 3 weeks I know I will be grouchy and not enjoy myself as much. And I know it will put a significant number of things I want to do out of reach finacially. I will resent them for this. Especially since they live with us rent free and do NOT pull their weight. DS does 10x more. Hell, he has started his second business this year. And they still have yet to figure out what a 40 hour work week actually is.

[desertstrawberry5]

No. Just say no.

This vacation is for you, your dh, and your minor child. The end. No one is entitled to a free vacation.

[Crimson Wife]

Having been the 20something oldest child left out when parents who were much better off financially took spoiled youngest sibling on MUCH cooler vacations than I was ever taken on as a teenager, I think you should either take ALL of your children or NONE of them.

 

Yes, I'm 40 and I'm still bitter about spoiled youngest sibling who got to jet-set to Europe multiple times on my parents' dime when they never took me.

[Guest]

I don't think this should fall on you. Dh, their father, should 100% be having this conversation.

[AK_Mom4]

DH and I took DD16 on a cruise with us last year. We left DS21 home with the dogs because his college classes started the week we were going. We didn't DS25 or DD23 to go with us - they have their own lives and jobs.

 

We could have left DD16 home with DS21 and she would have been fine, but she was still on winter break, so we took her along.

 

No discussions of fair or anything else. If you don't want to take the other kids, then don't take them.

[Χά�ων]

Having been the 20something oldest child left out when parents who were much better off financially took spoiled youngest sibling on MUCH cooler vacations than I was ever taken on as a teenager, I think you should either take ALL of your children or NONE of them.

 

Yes, I'm 40 and I'm still bitter about spoiled youngest sibling who got to jet-set to Europe multiple times on my parents' dime when they never took me.

I appreciate your frankness. Can I pick your brain and see if changing a few dynamics would adjust your view?

 

What if I were to say that the mid 20-somethings are not in school or working full time, have bever paid a bill in their life, and have been to Europe, Mexico, Canada, as well as lavish vacations throughout the United States already while the youngers have not? Almost the reverse of what you experienced.

 

 

I mentioned above about my son. He started his second business this year, is actively researching colleges, is involved in the community, and his chore list is 10x as long. He cleans up after himself and helps out of I am not able. I cannot even say that the mid 20 somethings complete their very light chores or work full time or taken any college courses. If I cannot afford all of them then he will miss out on seeing and going places and his experience will not be high end like the olders have experienced. It will be lower end, camping vs resort.

[Crimson Wife]

I appreciate your frankness. Can I pick your brain and see if changing a few dynamics would adjust your view?

 

What if I were to say that the mid 20-somethings are not in school or working full time, have bever paid a bill in their life, and have been to Europe, Mexico, Canada, as well as lavish vacations throughout the United States already while the youngers have not? Almost the reverse of what you experienced.

 

 

I mentioned above about my son. He started his second business this year, is actively researching colleges, is involved in the community, and his chore list is 10x as long. He cleans up after himself and helps out of I am not able. I cannot even say that the mid 20 somethings complete their very light chores or work full time or taken any college courses. If I cannot afford all of them then he will miss out on seeing and going places and his experience will not be high end like the olders have experienced. It will be lower end, camping vs resort.

 

I might frame it as a trip to "visit colleges" and tour some campuses that are in the area without mentioning the theme parks and other attractions. Certainly my parents took me and each of my brothers on individual college tour trips and that never bothered any of us.

[Crimson Wife]

University of Central Florida is supposed to have very good merit scholarships FWIW.

[Χά�ων]

I might frame it as a trip to "visit colleges" and tour some campuses that are in the area without mentioning the theme parks and other attractions. Certainly my parents took me and each of my brothers on individual college tour trips and that never bothered any of us.

Ok so I am clear, make it a tour the colleges trip and just add in theme parks, national parks, and so on without mentioning it?

[Crimson Wife]

Ok so I am clear, make it a tour the colleges trip and just add in theme parks, national parks, and so on without mentioning it?

 

Exactly. 20something siblings wouldn't need to go visit colleges like a teenager would.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I think the young people in question sound so selfish and entitled that it won't matter how it's phrased or justified; you'll be the bad guy and/or the resentful stooge. Sorry. I know you have your reasons for not going batspit crazy on the lot, but nobody here is gonna blame you when you finally blow your stack.

[Carol in Cal.]

So.

When DD came home from her first year in college, we said, we are so glad to see you, and we were.  But we also said, every day you have to work, look for a job, go to school, or work on the house.  And we made that stick.  Because of that, she learned how to look for a job (we taught her, we did not just turn her loose), how to work, and how to stick to things because they are important.  She thoroughly internalized those lessons, despite resenting them in the moment, and I suspect that in the long run they will end up being more valuable to her than what she learned at college that year.

 

Don't let your steps not learn this stuff.

 

They should be working too hard to have time for a trip like this. 

[Χά�ων]

University of Central Florida is supposed to have very good merit scholarships FWIW.

There is a college in FL that fits his current career goals and it is not terribly far from attractions.

 

I just lie the in state offering that will save a chunk of change in a few years ;)

[Χά�ων]

I think the young people in question sound so selfish and entitled that it won't matter how it's phrased or justified; you'll be the bad guy and/or the resentful stooge. Sorry. I know you have your reasons for not going batspit crazy on the lot, but nobody here is gonna blame you when you finally blow your stack.

I already blew my stack TBH. I am learning to embrace being the bad guy, it is not a role I am used to embracing.

[Χά�ων]

Exactly. 20something siblings wouldn't need to go visit colleges like a teenager would.

Isn't 13 a bit young?

 

Said with a note of sadness at the thought that my baby is growing up.

[IndigoGlitter]

I am thinking of this from when I was twenty something. There are 10 years within the 20's so we are talking a large swath. Are we talking 21 or 29? Big difference.

 

That said. When I was 20-21 and my parents went on vacation there were different things that would happen.

 

1. If it was somewhere I didn't want to go then I didn't go, even if I was meh on it.

 

2. If it was somewhere I did want to go they invited me and if they invited me they would pay. With that though I would help with what I could.

 

3. If they didn't invite me, usually because they didn't have the money for all of us (I have three younger sisters), I would pay for myself or stay if I didn't have the money.

 

That is how it was for me. Now, if it is were my kids, I would basically do the same thing. If you invite them to come then costs needs to be arranged before hand. Don't make it larger than it needs to be :)

[bolt.]

I'd just go ahead and calculate their costs, and present it with pleasant indifference, implying,"We'd love to have you, but it's no big deal either way."

 

"Accommodations and transportation are (x) dollars per person. You can come if it's worth that much to you, plus you will need to buy your own meals for (y) days. (Some hotels have breakfast included?) We'll get separate cheques if we eat out. If I buy snack food or groceries, we'll probably share. How does your budget look? Let me know by (date) if you are thinking of joining us. If so, I need the money in advance to make reservations."

[Jean in Newcastle]

If they want to come then they can figure out their own transportation, lodging and entertainment. If they hit someone else up to pay for it then that is up to the someone else. But you do nothing-no reminders, no contributions of any kind. I suspect that they won't follow through.

 

 

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[Guest]

If they are going to be snots whether they go or stay home, leave them at home. Tell all the faces that the voices that tell you you should feel guilty about that come out of to leave that message on your voicemail cause you're going to be out for vacation.

[Χά�ων]

I am thinking of this from when I was twenty something. There are 10 years within the 20's so we are talking a large swath. Are we talking 21 or 29? Big difference.

 

 

Mid 20's

 

ETA Old enough to be finished with a 4 year degree for one and a master's for another.

Edited July 15, 2017 by Χά�ων

[Jean in Newcastle]

Mid 20's

 

ETA Old enough to be finished with a 4 year degree for one and a master's for another.

That's irrelevant in my opinion. What is relevant is that they are adults and no longer children.

[Χά�ων]

So.

When DD came home from her first year in college, we said, we are so glad to see you, and we were. But we also said, every day you have to work, look for a job, go to school, or work on the house. And we made that stick. Because of that, she learned how to look for a job (we taught her, we did not just turn her loose), how to work, and how to stick to things because they are important. She thoroughly internalized those lessons, despite resenting them in the moment, and I suspect that in the long run they will end up being more valuable to her than what she learned at college that year.

 

Don't let your steps not learn this stuff.

 

They should be working too hard to have time for a trip like this.

While I agree with you and my son is already benefiting from direct instruction for vital life skills, I have to admot that I feel I am not the perso to impart these skills to the steps. They will not listen or follow through and, frankly, the inlaws will bail them out if I push. Most of the annoying things that happen I leave for DH. I have given up. It is clear that until they are thrust into a situation where they are forced to unplug, and get off their duffs, they will not do anything. I am sad to say that the one with the health issues, will probably die from them because it is too much trouble to take the inititive to make and follow up on doctor appointments. This is the reason DH tolerates the shit. It is the realization that his child will die if he does not drag them to the doctor and make sure they take meds as needed and so on.

 

I cannot stress enough the complete lack of initive/zest for life I see.

 

I frankly, do not even think being homeless will make an impact. It is a bit scary. And I have no basis to understand, my son is so different in his ambitition level.

[Crimson Wife]

Isn't 13 a bit young?

 

Said with a note of sadness at the thought that my baby is growing up.

 

Nope. My parents started taking me on college visits at 12 because I did not confine myself to any one geographical region in my applications and (unlike later on when they had the money to take spoiled youngest brother on exotic vacations), they had to space out the trips over multiple years for budget reasons. So one year we hit the California schools, another the SE schools (Johns Hopkins, Georgetown, Duke, William & Mary, Emory, Wake Forest, etc.), Rice on a convoluted layover to the Midwest (Northwestern, Chicago, Notre Dame, etc.)

[Forget-Me-Not]

I remember some of your other posts. I agree with Tibbie. You can't win here. Just accept the fact that they are going to be unhappy about being left out and let their reaction be their problem. I personally wouldn't even offer the option of letting them come on their own dime. I'm imagining scenarios where they don't follow through and will be roomless/meal-less for the night unless you pony up and pay.

 

I would simply say "DH, DS, and myself will be out of town from X date to Y date" and leave it.

[Crimson Wife]

 

3. If they didn't invite me, usually because they didn't have the money for all of us (I have three younger sisters), I would pay for myself or stay if I didn't have the money.

 

That is how it was for me. Now, if it is were my kids, I would basically do the same thing. If you invite them to come then costs needs to be arranged before hand. Don't make it larger than it needs to be :)

 

If you don't have the money to invite all the children, don't invite any of them IMHO. Playing favorites will lead to feelings of resentment and a belief that younger siblings are being spoiled.

 

If DH and I ever have the money to travel, we're either going to do it when youngest DD is away at summer camp (there are special needs respite camps) or we will take all 3 of our children regardless of if they're teenagers or 20somethings. Taking some and not others is unfair IMHO.

[Farrar]

I will say, both my parents, despite one of them having limited funds, made vacations happen that included us as adult children. My mother organized a long trip to the mountains and included and basically paid for (we drove, so we provided our own transportation, but she paid for the lodging, meals, and most of the experiences) myself and dh when we were in our early 20's. And I'm so glad she did. We had some money, but at that age, we just wouldn't have put it toward that, but it was a good family experience for us. And I don't feel like I was taking advantage exactly or like she was being a sucker. And I do feel like that enhanced the family dynamics for everyone that we were included and brought along even though we were the eldest and the "adults" with everyone else being minors.

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is that the issues here seem like they go way beyond normal family dynamics. It's a dysfunctional situation so anything that happens within that dysfunction is going to be at least potentially messy because that's what happens in groups or families where the relationships aren't healthy. I'm sorry that they sound like they're so ungrateful and unhappy within the family. I guess I wouldn't want to take a child of any age on a vacation who acted like that.

[TeenagerMom]

Both sets of parents took vacations with a younger sibling and step-siblings when I was a young adult. I feel no resentment.  I was an adult who no longer lived at home. They were no longer responsible for me.