Slache Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 Has anyone stuck with this long term? Has anyone actually made that many flash cards? :svengo: Do we like his other products? If you've never heard of it here's a link to the book and website. I highly recommend the book. I have never looked at language this way before and I'm having so much fun reading it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmilyGF Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 How long is long term? I started three months ago. I'm not finding making the flashcards onerous. I do think this might be a hard way to learn your first foreign language when you don't know what you don't know. I do think this might be a really good approach to use alongside another approach (which is sort of what he did). If you have specific questions, I can try to help! Emily 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slache Posted July 11, 2017 Author Share Posted July 11, 2017 How long is long term? I started three months ago. I'm not finding making the flashcards onerous. I do think this might be a hard way to learn your first foreign language when you don't know what you don't know. I do think this might be a really good approach to use alongside another approach (which is sort of what he did). If you have specific questions, I can try to help! Emily 4 months. ;) I was thinking years. How long do you spend making flash cards? Paper or digital? What else are you using? And what language? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Tick Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 (edited) We've been using Anki for a year or so with Latin and German. We started Lively Latin using the flashcards she provides but I was going crazy trying to keep track of which ones we needed to study and which ones we knew (and there are three of us...) So I was ready to make the leap to Anki when it came up on WTM. We've been using it happily since then. For German we are using a mash-up of resources and I add flashcards sporadically as the vocabulary comes up. FF has way better flashcard ideas than my basic English-to-target, though, so I'm planning to try to incorporate some of those ideas moving forward. I also plan to sit down with the 625 words and see if there are any we don't already have in our collection. The book definitely confirms some of my personal anecdotal experience, which is always nice. I had a friend pick up a cheap monolingual Spanish dictionary for me at one point which has been helpful. In Spanish I'm in the intermediate stage. Traveling in Amsterdam at one point I remember thinking that if I just knew the pronunciation rules I wouldn't feel so painfully touristy. I'm loving his suggestion to not fill out all the tedious grammar exercises! We'll see how that lays out. Editing to follow! Edited July 11, 2017 by SusanC 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmilyGF Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 4 months. ;) I was thinking years. How long do you spend making flash cards? Paper or digital? What else are you using? And what language? Thanks! I figured I'd comment just in case no one else did. :-) I'm doing the digital flashcards. Maybe 10 minutes per page. But I'm doing Hebrew and frequently have issues with the font so that takes more time than it should. Definitely digital. And all three types because goodness knows I need it in modern Hebrew! I'm using it with the book Colloquial Hebrew, which is recommended. I'm doing the exercises. My goal is conversational Hebrew for an upcoming extended stay in Israel. Emily 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmilyGF Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 I am planning to use this method with my kids come fall, especially now that I'm working out the kinks with myself. I'll probably have the middle schoolers read it, too, at the rate of about a chapter every month or so, as part of their foreign language class, so that they get what is going on. For the middle schoolers, I'll probably make their flash cards (because making them CAN be a time black hole if you aren't disciplined) and I'll work on grammar concepts with them and then make grammar flash cards for/with them. I've put the recommended German resource (which is what my kids are learning) on hold at the library, but I also have ones I'm looking through at home to use. I really really want to reread Harry Potter but have told myself I can't reread it until I read it in Hebrew. My flash cards take me about 30-45 minutes per day. I'm adding 20 a day, which is a bit too much for me. Emily 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slache Posted July 11, 2017 Author Share Posted July 11, 2017 We've been using Anki for a year or so with Latin and German. We started Lively Latin using the flashcards she provides but I was going crazy trying to keep track of which ones we needed to study and which ones we knew (and there are three of us...) So I was ready to make the leap to Anki when it came up on WTM. We've been using it happily since then. For German we are using a mash-up of resources and I add flashcards sporadically as the vocabulary comes up. FF has way better flashcard ideas than my basic English-to-target, though, so I'm planning to try to incorporate some of those ideas moving forward. I also plan to sit down with the 625 words and see if there are any we don't already have in our collection. The book definitely confirms some of my personal anecdotal experience, which is always nice. I had a friend pick up a cheap monolingual Spanish dictionary for me at one point which has been helpful. In Spanish I'm in the intermediate stage. Traveling in Amsterdam at one point I remember thinking that if I just knew the pronunciation rules I wouldn't feel so painfully touristy. I'm loving his suggestion to not fill out all the tedious grammar exercises! We'll see how that lays out. Editing to follow! We love ANKI! We use it for math facts, countries and states on a map, flags and capitals, SOTW Review Cards, Bible verses and facts, poetry, phonograms, spelling rules, and Spanish and Greek Vocab. I figured I'd comment just in case no one else did. :-) I'm doing the digital flashcards. Maybe 10 minutes per page. But I'm doing Hebrew and frequently have issues with the font so that takes more time than it should. Definitely digital. And all three types because goodness knows I need it in modern Hebrew! I'm using it with the book Colloquial Hebrew, which is recommended. I'm doing the exercises. My goal is conversational Hebrew for an upcoming extended stay in Israel. Emily I make Koine ANKI cards on my phone with my modern Greek keyboard. It's available through the settings on my basic Samsung. I am planning to use this method with my kids come fall, especially now that I'm working out the kinks with myself. I'll probably have the middle schoolers read it, too, at the rate of about a chapter every month or so, as part of their foreign language class, so that they get what is going on. For the middle schoolers, I'll probably make their flash cards (because making them CAN be a time black hole if you aren't disciplined) and I'll work on grammar concepts with them and then make grammar flash cards for/with them. I've put the recommended German resource (which is what my kids are learning) on hold at the library, but I also have ones I'm looking through at home to use. I really really want to reread Harry Potter but have told myself I can't reread it until I read it in Hebrew. My flash cards take me about 30-45 minutes per day. I'm adding 20 a day, which is a bit too much for me. Emily How young would you use the method? My son is only 6, but a fluent reader. I'm definitely not opposed to teaching my daughter to read in Spanish before English. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slache Posted July 12, 2017 Author Share Posted July 12, 2017 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slache Posted July 20, 2017 Author Share Posted July 20, 2017 1. I just read this and it's kind of blowing my mind. I feel like I actually see a path now towards dd9 and I learning French without breaking the bank. Here's a few things, though: 2. He stresses how important it is to get on google images and find images for your cards, but that is definitely not a G rated place to go. How are you planning to get around that with your kids? 3. He seems to kind of take it for granted that you'll have at least an hour a day to do this. I'll be lucky to carve out half that. Do you think that will be a problem? (Obviously it will slow things down). Have any of you tried LiveMocha or Verbling? ARe these kid friendly places? Do you feel like you need to reach a certain level of vocab before you jump in? 4. Would you try any of these methods for a language like Latin, e.g. Using pictures instead of English words on the back of your flash cards? 1. :party: 2. Safe search, clip art, children drawing it themselves. The "most amazing word list" is not child appropriate. 3. Yes, but I don't plan on going at FF speed anyway. 4. Absolutely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slache Posted July 20, 2017 Author Share Posted July 20, 2017 How do you do a safe search? Not tech savvy at all over here. http://www.safesearchkids.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Targhee Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 Have any of you used his Pronunciation Trainers in the target language? Worth $12? Seems like a lot to me for an app you use for a couple weeks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slache Posted July 20, 2017 Author Share Posted July 20, 2017 Have any of you used his Pronunciation Trainers in the target language? Worth $12? Seems like a lot to me for an app you use for a couple weeksI'm getting it for a family of four speakers. I'll update later. :) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Another Lynn Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 I just read this and it's kind of blowing my mind. I feel like I actually see a path now towards dd9 and I learning French without breaking the bank. Here's a few things, though: He stresses how important it is to get on google images and find images for your cards, but that is definitely not a G rated place to go. How are you planning to get around that with your kids? He seems to kind of take it for granted that you'll have at least an hour a day to do this. I'll be lucky to carve out half that. Do you think that will be a problem? (Obviously it will slow things down). Have any of you tried LiveMocha or Verbling? ARe these kid friendly places? Do you feel like you need to reach a certain level of vocab before you jump in? Would you try any of these methods for a language like Latin, e.g. Using pictures instead of English words on the back of your flash cards? Hey, I'm very ignorantly jumping in here (haven't read the book) to say there is a Latin program that takes this approach. From the description of Matin Latin: "Pictures are used to define the Latin words, making this curriculum ideal even for very young children." link: https://www.christianbook.com/matin-latin-student-text-2nd-edition/karen-craig/9781628719437/pd/719437#CBD-PD-Description 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Targhee Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 (edited) Another question. For you Anki users. I downloaded and tried to start using the computer version (on a Mac) and it was so very not intuitive to me. I set it aside (that was over a year ago). As I am considering something akin to FF for my own German studies, the spaced repetition on Anki seems like a no brainer and I should give it a go again with visual flash cards. I thought about getting it on my iPad and noticed it was $25 bucks! Man, I may sound like a real penny pincher with another "is it worth it" questions, but is Anki on the tablet worth the $25 price tag? Edited July 20, 2017 by Targhee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Targhee Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 There's a free one for the ipad. Is that not the right one? Really?? I guess I will have to look again because last night it was $25 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmilyGF Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 Another question. For you Anki users. I downloaded and tried to start using the computer version (on a Mac) and it was so very not intuitive to me. I set it aside (that was over a year ago). As I am considering something akin to FF for my own German studies, the spaced repetition on Anki seems like a no brainer and I should give it a go again with visual flash cards. I thought about getting it on my iPad and noticed it was $25 bucks! Man, I may sound like a real penny pincher with another "is it worth it" questions, but is Anki on the tablet worth the $25 price tag? I don't find Anki intuitive - and I am pretty adept at computer usage. Do watch the how to videos on the fluent forever site and allow yourself to fail before getting it right. Download the sample deck (which really isn't much). I would buy the pronunciation trainer cards so you can get some sense of Anki before having to make your own cards. I'm three months into using Anki daily and starting to figure out more. Don't give up! ​Emily 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Targhee Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 OK, I found Anki Master that is free but has about $6 of in app purchases to fully activate. But it is not the same as the desktop app so I would have to remake any flash cards if I were to go between platforms. And doesn't the one by AnkiTechs (that is the desktop and $25 mobile one) have a large database of other people's flash cards? Maybe I am remembering that incorrectly though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmilyGF Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 (edited) Hmmm, the images are not nearly as good (I typed in déjeuner and regular google came up with a ton of actual breakfast pics and the kids one only had three plus a bunch of impressionist portraits). Still, I guess I can preview regular google and use it as a backup if needed. My google search preferences has "safesearch" turned on. I haven't gotten anything that I found very bad, but while I'm Christian, I'm not fundamentalist. I also chose not to make a card for "s*x" because 1) I didn't want an image in my mind and 2) I can't imagine needing to use that word in my target language. You can also choose just to see line art or clip art. ETA: I do sometimes come across weird ones, though, that might be upsetting. But not explicit. But I wouldn't have a kid under 12 make their own cards this way, anyways, because there is so much danger of distraction. Emily Edited July 20, 2017 by EmilyGF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slache Posted July 20, 2017 Author Share Posted July 20, 2017 Another question. For you Anki users. I downloaded and tried to start using the computer version (on a Mac) and it was so very not intuitive to me. I set it aside (that was over a year ago). As I am considering something akin to FF for my own German studies, the spaced repetition on Anki seems like a no brainer and I should give it a go again with visual flash cards. I thought about getting it on my iPad and noticed it was $25 bucks! Man, I may sound like a real penny pincher with another "is it worth it" questions, but is Anki on the tablet worth the $25 price tag? Ok, wow. It's $25. :svengo: ANKI is not intuitive, but once you get the hand of it it's phenomenal. We use it for countries and states on a map, capitals and flags, history dates and sentences, phonograms, spelling rules, poetry, Spanish and Greek vocabulary, math facts and phone numbers. He gets about 5 new cards a day across those areas but because of the spaced repetition system it only takes about 5-7 minutes of our day. I LOVE it. It's amazing. Is it worth it? Yes, absolutely. I'd probably pay $300 for it. Will you use it? If you won't then don't buy it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wendyroo Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 I refuse to pay the $25 for the iOS version of Anki. On my desktop and laptop I use the free Anki for Windows. On my iPad, I use the free web version of Anki. On my Android phone and tablet, I use the free AnkiDroid app. I have AnkiWeb accounts (one for each Anki profile), so Anki syncs across all of my platforms. Ironically, I would be perfectly willing to pay a reasonable amount for Anki, but $25 for iOS when the rest are free doesn't feel reasonable to me. Wendy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CadenceSophia Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 Have any of you used his Pronunciation Trainers in the target language? Worth $12? Seems like a lot to me for an app you use for a couple weeks I know several people who have bought his pronunciation trainer decks and thought they were really useful. These were experienced language learners who don't buy much else along the way. There are other sources for minimal pairs online though if the money is too much. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slache Posted July 21, 2017 Author Share Posted July 21, 2017 The FF Spanish (LA) pronunciation thingy is an ANKI deck with 490 cards and instructional videos from the website. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slache Posted July 21, 2017 Author Share Posted July 21, 2017 (edited) You know, that really does sound worth the money not to have to make all those cards. Hmmm... They're complicated cards, too. You'd have to come up with the recordings and there are pictures. I know he says to make your own for *vocab*, but making these would not benefit you in the slightest. I was irritated that it was just an ANKI deck until I looked at them. There's a lot here. Edited July 21, 2017 by Slache Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slache Posted July 21, 2017 Author Share Posted July 21, 2017 Horrible as in horribly difficult to make or horrible as in not very well done? :lol: Horribly difficult to make! They were made by professional Spanishers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slache Posted July 21, 2017 Author Share Posted July 21, 2017 F Sound: Actual Sort Order 1 Spelling (a letter or combination of letters) F Notes on Usage Example word for that spelling/sound combination foca Word with Article la foca English Translation Seal Picture of the example word Recording of the Sound [sound:30-F-Foca-Speaker1-1.mp3] Recording of the Word [sound:30-Foca-Speaker3-1.mp3] IPA for Sound f IPA for Word ˈfo.ka F Spelling: Actual Sort Order 1 Spelling (a letter or combination of letters) F Notes on Usage Example word for that spelling/sound combination foca Word with Article la foca English Translation Seal Picture of the example word Recording of the Sound [sound:30-F-Foca-Speaker1-1.mp3] Recording of the Word [sound:30-Foca-Speaker3-1.mp3] IPA for Sound f IPA for Word ˈfo.ka Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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